honu

It doesn't add much beyond what has been said but both my children are Thai and American and hold two passports, one for each citizenship they possess.

I couldn't say for sure the process and rights are the same for the UK as the US but for the case of the latter birth really should be registered with the embassy and passport obtained when they are newborns, as in the case of your child. I would expect an embassy website to make the registration process steps and documentation required clear. In my own case the process wasn't difficult or expensive, for what that's worth.

Beyond assigning them the citizenship rights they really should have it makes travel easier since countries vary in which other countries' citizens they require a visa from, so depending on where we go using one of the passports over the other is much easier. There is nothing wrong with entering countries as a citizen of one country versus the other since they really possess both nationalities.

I just posted a Thai tea review, seems a good excuse to say a little more here:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2016/02/tea-side-thai-hong-shui-dark-oolong-tea.html

That tea was a darker style rolled oolong made in a style originated in Taiwan (Hong Shui) based on tea plants developed in Taiwan.

It wasn't really an inexpensive tea (around $10 for 50 grams) but then that's not so unusual for rare styles of tea, and that's the only one of that type you'd be likely to find in Thailand. I'd probably choose a third of their other teas over that one, but that comes down to preference (like this one, a great black tea at two thirds that cost: http://tea-side.com/red-and-black-tea/red-tea-jin-xuan/)

I don't get the feeling I'm really talking to anyone here about a tea they'd be interested in just related to that price range. And this is the odd thing: a Starbucks coffee would run about $5 for a large cup, or maybe the $6.50 depending on what someone ordered, and that black tea--which they are calling red, the direct translation from Chinese--would make 20 or 30 cups of tea for that, better tea than almost anyone knows exists, better than any tea-bag tea by quite a bit, even if still mid-range for what tea enthusiasts tend to drink.

Any other ideas on how I'd get the word out? Expat forums don't seem to be converting anyone, and local media just mention Bangkok cafes opening, which I guess is a start.

Thanks for the input!

I thought I had tried it, and the first time I re-tried it that didn't work, but then I noticed a typo. The second time I entered it correctly it did work, so all the extra review may have just related to a typo.

I just sent package in November to the US by Thailand Post, just over half a kilogram in weight, and it cost 280 baht. The catch is that it hasn't arrived yet, over two months later, and we've only recently started a review process to see if there's any chance of it turning back up.

The mail was registered but we've yet to see if that relates to making it any easier to track or find a lost package in the US since the Thai tracking system only says that it left the country, within a week of that shipping.

this article contains a link to what looks like the official reference page:

http://www.expat.com/en/guide/asia/thailand/8593-driving-in-thailand.html

as I recall I didn't need any eye test for the renewal step to a 5 year license, about 2 years ago now, but I did need it for the initial license. that sort of requirement might change over time though.

as others have stated there wasn't much to it, just a requirement to watch a video (a couple of them), and a few reaction or periphreal vision tests, the kind of thing it would be hard to fail unless you really did have some serious limitations.

Visiting Indonesia last month made me appreciate how orderly and organized tours were in Vietnam. I loved Indonesia but it was hard getting anything arranged, always the case of some guy someone knew lined up to do something, which usually went exactly as planned, but in one case it didn't.

The only glitch we encountered in Hanoi last time is that different tour companies all offer similar packages, even a range of options, but you can't know in advance how well that's going to work out, or how clear they are really being about the details. It's easy to say "just be careful" but almost impossible to flag the things that could go wrong. Examples from our trip: a range of food quality on the tours, one case of a guide touring 30 people at one time (not so easy to make that out), packing 15 people into a van that sat exactly 15, shoulder to shoulder, neglecting to mention hiking distance on a tour, or that a hotel doesn't have heat. Since tour costs vary it's possible you could pay more to get less, which a veteran traveler should be able to shrug off, but better to manage it better.

None of that we experienced was so crucial, not exactly scams, except maybe the heat in that hotel in Sapa; it was probably low 50s F / appx. 12 C in that room, and we had young kids with us. It's not like some guy that's supposed to pick you up for a volcano tour not doing it. If it's a case of doing multiple tours in the same area, like Halong Bay and wherever else out of Hanoi, it might work to try one guide agent and switch if it went badly.

A site like Trip Advisor could give you some feel for who to use, and an extra hour of clicking here and there could sort out a lot, but easy enough to overdo all that. It's probably better to try to do a virtual version of the tour ahead of time when you have the extra time and be open to switching that planning up as things become clearer. To me the worst thing to do is to block out every hour of your trip and then be a slave to your own planning, taking it out of sleep when something goes wrong.

I visited Indonesia in December (a month ago), and they did give me a visa on arrival. As I recall it was the usual sticker that took up a full page. I'm an American, not British, but one would expect the processing to be the same.

This is something I've been considering lately, what local culture even is, and how tea fits in. It relates to this type of media description of local culture:

http://bk.asia-city.com/city-living/news/things-shaped-bangkok-2015

This kind of media can be a bit superficial, not intended to accurately represent modern culture, more just coverage of trends, and definitely not addressing traditional culture at all.

As I read this kind of thing I wonder who would chase down the latest trendy restaurant, or mall event, since this list of 50 things would have kept them busy every week this year. But it is part of what local culture is, and indirectly it says the same thing Witawit just mentioned.

And yet #12 on that summary article states "we started taking our tea as seriously as our coffee," linked to this:

http://bk.asia-city.com/restaurants/article/bangkok-best-cafes-coffee-shops

But none of the articles I ever see talk about what tea actually is. You don't see a description of what oolong is, versus black tea, or if green tea really is healthy. Or anything deeper, or basics, how to brew tea, what Tie Kuan Yin is, or deeper yet, about duck shit Dan Cong or Wuyi Yancha.

People make tea into something it's really not, it seems to me. It works well to sit with a friend and chat over making tea, spending an hour on that, but it also works to have it with breakfast, to make it and drink it with a quick meal that spans 20 minutes.

This is the kind of awareness I'd like to promote, that tea works across a range of experiences, as discovery of exotic types best studied at the feet of a master, and also as a healthy and inexpensive alternative caffeine source. Among people really into tea most get focused on tangents, as into gear as tea--clay pots or whatever, for example, but all that's completely optional.

These responses have covered most of what we focus on: socks and underwear, chocolate, nuts, different foods, specific tools, shoes, etc. I'll add a few more specifics though.

-vitamins

-shampoo (different versions in the US; I'm not a Brit)

-kid's snacks: something like fig newtons or pop tarts are imported foods here

-toys: only applies to kids, but Thailand taxes better toys so they cost lots more, just cheap Chinese toys for good value

-swim goggles

-cosmetics: not of interest to me, but apparently better versions get taxed lots here too

It's interesting that tea made other's lists. I'm a tea enthusiast, so I do my best to never drink tea made from a tea bag, which seems to be that point.

We tend to shop for foods a good bit, to an extent that seems crazy, carrying a suitcase full of food back. Cheese usually doesn't make the cut but it would be a really good idea to stash half a kilo of parmesian since the pricing for such a thing here is outrageous. Snacks are kind of different too, so it's nice for my kids to try things like licorice or peppermint patties, which one might find here for triple the ordinary cost.

One more topic related to tea awareness came up recently in a visit to Indonesia. Who really knows about Indonesian tea? It's not something the casual tea drinker really needs to know anything about, since one could skip tea from every country but China and still have lots of options. Or in Thailand it would be natural to add Thai teas to the review list. Anyway, here is a blog review of one, about a tea I bought directly from a plantation in Java:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/12/wonosari-plantation-indonesian-green-tea.html

To save people from clicking through I'll give the short version here. I tried a green tea that was interesting but not great. Trying one tea doesn't represent everything a country produces, of course. I've tried and reviewed a much better black tea from Indonesia before, and I expect they produce a lot of range of tea I'll never really get around to trying. I've also since did a little research and another provider sells Indonesian oolongs, really my favorite type, so I'll try those at some point.

It was interesting they sold commercial tea for next to nothing, even by Thai standards, and I bought some, so if it was even average tea it was an incredible deal.

On a completely different subject, I personally would like to see awareness of lots of types and aspects of tea expand in lots of places. To me it's under-appreciated, a great beverage choice, most likely healthy, and sold at a great value for the whole range of quality levels, although the most expensive teas are really more about quality than cost-effectiveness. If anyone reading this has suggestions about how that might happen I'd be happy to hear them.

We visited Hanoi a year ago, at this same time, and Ho Chi Minh City a few years prior to that. I really liked the feel of the city and the side-trips we did around Hanoi a lot better. I'd agree with pretty much everything others have added here, so I'll just fill in some more comments. Oddly they do call HCMC Saigon still; it's on the signs everywhere, so you can go either way on that, as they do.

Sapa is great for experiencing really cool weather, but it can be rainy around this time, so best to not think of it as just cool weather; 5 to 7 degrees and raining is cold. Our hotel there didn't exactly have heat, just 1000 watt heater in the room, so we didn't really get a break. At one point I let the hair dryer run because it was close to the same power output, but of course that hardly warmed up a large, cold, damp room. So just be careful about accommodations.

Tours everywhere seem a bit hit and miss but it's hard to really sort that out, who will do exactly what they say, who will skip some details that seem critical in retrospect (like mentioning a walking tour requires 10k of walking throughout the day; fine for some, not so good for some others). I guess the next level of review through a site like Trip Advisor wouldn't hurt. I did like that train, and it did require an extra ride up to the resort area, but for me sleeper car trains are a good thing, so worth it.

Halong Bay was amazing. Again best to really try to sort through tours. The one-day trip is possible but it makes for a rough day, 7 hours or so in a crowded van (probably), then 3 or 4 hours on a boat, with a lunch. I'd rather spend a longer time on the water and go overnight, although I wouldn't necessarily need to sleep on a boat. I guess it would come down to reviewing what sounded good. One couple told a horror story of being kicked off the overnight boat because they didn't buy alcohol, so there was some made-up story of mechanical trouble that somehow resulted in just them needing to get off. Most of the scams aren't so black and white, more just about poor service or value or dropping some aspect that would seem naturally connected later.

We stayed just a bit outside the normal tourist area (Old Quarter, I think that was) in Hanoi, and it's probably better to be right there or right beside it, just because otherwise you're sandwiched between shoe stores and such. It seems best to allow time for getting around and seeing what's there, more than just trying to see major sites. Vietnamese food is great, of course, good versions, and I liked trying out "bia hoi," unfermented beer, which requires that you go to a very local looking but harmless enough area just outside the tourist zone.

I don't remember much that really stood out about HCMC from that earlier trip. A side trip covered some natural sights, and a remote Western-influenced resort / agricultural village, touring along beaches that didn't seem so exceptional, but nothing too exciting.

Drifting just a little off topic here, but a friend of mine just won a Wuyishan tea competition involving most of the local farmers, getting 1st place for Rou Gui and 2nd place for Shui Xian.

For most people the only response would be "what?," but for people that know tea that's huge, a little like an Olympic medal, but for tea. Not everyone loves Wuyi Yancha (more oxidized oolongs from Fujian province) but for a lot of tea lovers that's a great stopping point for final preferences in tea type.

Here is a blog post comparing two of them, along with a third Da Hong Pao from a local Bangkok source, the Jip Eu shop in Chinatown, which was pretty good as well:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/11/comparison-tasting-two-rou-gui-and-da.html

To be honest I've tried a lot of teas, and more Wuyi Yancha than most, but I couldn't really tell those teas were that extra bit better than really good. It's a long learning curve and if I kept at it in another couple of years I might be up to making that kind of call.

Your timing is perfect for this question; I just spent a few years completely off herb teas / tisanes, and in the last couple months have started back in on them. So I'll answer the question in two parts, about what types of herb teas someone might like, and then about where to get them.

I've been drinking mulberry leaf tea (popular in Thailand, said to be healthy, easy to find lots of places), and lately sage herbs as a tea, and also rosemary as tea. Those last two are not different than cooking herbs. One I had a vendor send to use as a tea (the sage, which is not easy to find in good quality in Thailand, so I ended up getting it from Croatia, odd as that sounds). The rosemary I just had lots of so I tried it as a tea and I like it.

There are lots of others. I just posted a guest blog post on chrysanthemom tea, which is popular in China, and not so uncommon here. Thais also drink herb teas (tisanes--same thing) from things like bael fruit and goji berry, or really from any number of herbs. The catch might be that you don't really like the taste of most of those herbs, which run from fruity, or floral, or herbaceous, but they're not that much like tea (camellia sinensis types). The thing is they are never oxidized, like black teas are, or even like oolongs are, so if you already loved the grassy, vegetal taste of a green tea you'd be ok, but otherwise it might not seem so nice.

To buy the teas you could get tea-bag versions lots of places, maybe easiest in the small organic-themed shops they have like separate stores beside Tops, or separate in malls and even as stand-alone shops. As with regular tea you can get different versions, and the quality varies, so maybe once you find what you like you could refine sourcing a bit to get better versions. Tea-bag versions are usually just a bit of dust in that bag, and you can do a lot better with loose tea, and it's not that hard to make it, put it in hot water and strain it somehow.

I'll add a couple online shops as well, vendors in Thailand, since that will help page through what's out there, as well as provide more sourcing options:

http://tea-village.com/en/

http://tea-side.com/

I didn't try a white tea from Hatvala, although I vaguely remember they sold one.

It's completely off the subject of this thread but they grow coffee in Laos too. Again it's hard to find coffee that's even claimed to be a better version there.

We bought some on a farm out in the middle of nowhere once, where they were also growing tea, both robusta and arabica bean based versions.

That coffee wasn't roasted perfectly or else it probably would have been the best I'd ever tried, with an unusual sweetness to it, probably mostly from being picked when ripe and made fresh. I drank samples at the farm and that was the first time I ever felt caffeine-poisoned, with a crazy heart rate and general anxiety. It sounds good, to get an energy boost like doing a couple rails of meth, but going through it wasn't so nice.

I only drink tea these days, but a great source for tea in Vietnam is really a coffee and tea shop:

http://hatvala.com/hatvalacoffe/premium-coffee-vietnam

http://hatvala.com/hatvalacoffe/premium-coffee-vietnam/20-coffee-beans/39-coffee-in-vietnam

If they go through the same sourcing process for coffee it's not standard product, really something unique, but again I've not tried it. They mention roasting to a preferred level on the website, and it's my understanding that lighter roasts display the better bean qualities better. Odd they say this though, so what do I know:

We prefer medium to medium-dark roasts as these provide the optimum balance in our opinion between aroma, sweetness and body. However, we will also roast to any specific customer requirement.

As for tea (hard to imagine someone drinking both, but I guess it could happen) the Red Buffalo oolong (mid-roast) or the Wild Boar black tea are great, and the lighter oolong and green teas are good too, just not the types I prefer.

It really, really goes without saying but it would make no sense to order coffee from another country already pre-ground (which they do mention; better to grind just before use). Those small spice grinders you could surely buy in department stores in Thailand can grind coffee beans, even if something designed just for the purpose might get you more optimum results.

a blog post about chocolate tasting compared to tea tasting, maybe a bit more specific than most tea drinkers would be interested in (about review and palate training, etc.), but it is also about specialty chocolate:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/10/comparing-tea-and-chocolate-tasting.html

This is really not my area of expertise but I did just discuss this at a tea shop in Chinatown, the Jip Eu shop I'd mentioned. They said one way to identify the real jixing pots was to review the certification letter that came with it.

If someone knew what they were looking for the stamp at the bottom of the pot also identifies maker, but then if the pot is a fake that's the kind of thing that could be faked. Really the certificate could be counterfeited too; it's just a paper record. I suppose it wouldn't help with review if it was written mostly in Chinese, but then that relates to the country the pots are typically coming from.

Someone might wonder, what does it mean for a clay pot to be fake? Those certificates list the maker and composition of the pots, and the whole point is that different types of clay have different properties (as I recall yixing is a regional designation that refers to the clay type used). I know nothing about all that, of course. If someone wanted to spend hundreds of dollars on clay pots they'd do well to research it further. That does raise an interesting question; what is the range of what such pots are supposed to cost? Again I'm not a good reference for the subject but I've seen them for next to nothing (surely not "real" yixing pots, whatever that means), and then from $60 to $500, with others surely costing more.

Someone might also wonder, what else is there to consider beside the type of clay used? Size, of course, and people into pots talk about the shape of the pot being critical, the thickness, the finish (outside and inside appearance and texture), how well the lid seals, even how fast the spout discharges the tea.

About the question about pesticides and chemicals in tea, and the real value in buying organic teas, those are good questions. I'm not sure.

There are Thai certifications for organic products but I wouldn't be certain that means much in practice. It's hard to imagine how US or Canadian certifications could be meaningful here either. Then again, since very little tea is grown in the US or Canada if foreign standards can't be effectively applied overseas then labeling for all the products there doesn't mean much either.

What I've heard of such issues is just hearsay, nothing of enough credibility to pass on, but people seemed to interpret organic standards more positively in direct relation to them having an interest in using them for marketing.

I've recently read of problems related to importing teas from one place to another because testing to ensure safety is difficult (really a separate issue, but related), with too many potential contaminants to effectively test for even most, and different standards for different allowable thresholds in different countries. That was about a familiar name in tea, just one case of one failed test, so hard to extrapolate from that, just interesting reading related discussion points.

If it helps at all what one comes across related to the issue of risks also varies. Some sources (which could be more closely tied to tea sales interests) cite studies saying test results are generally positive across all categories, and that in general chemicals don't make it from application to leaves into a brewed liquid tea very easily. Of course other sources say the risks are real, and higher, that test results can identify contamination and this can pass on to what you drink.

In the end one might wonder how to minimize risk, aside from making friends with tea farmers, how much buying organic products seems to offset that. I really don't know. I doubt any amount of internet based research would point in any one direction, so at best one could try to judge source credibility and then interpret different findings after that step.

It's kind of a completely separate issue but I've never had any luck finding drinkable mass-produced Thai tea of any type (in reference to the one shown). It would seem more of a shame to risk long term negative health effects for tea that doesn't taste good to begin with. People sell semi-wild teas based on the claims that tea trees not cultivated through conventional farming methods would use no such chemicals, but I'm not sure, maybe not.

Nice to see talk about tea!

About butterfly pea tea, here are some places to take a look, but these are retail. You really want the source where they are getting the teas, and that I don't know. Google might help with that but a search would go better in Thai language, always a problem for anyone that's not Thai.

Any tea vendor is likely to sell higher volumes for less but you'll still pay a good bit more than they bought the tea for, but it still can't hurt to check that rate:

http://tea-village.com/en/9-herbs

http://tea-side.com/herbal-teas-for-healing/

About the Ekamai shop, nice to hear of it; I'll take a look.

I finally found a good tea shop in Chinatown, Jip Eu, the kind of place that sells good teas for decent prices, and cheap teas for next to nothing, and doesn't sell the teas out of bins or large glass jars. Really such shops are all over the place, so it was more a gap in me never spending an afternoon wandering around Chinatown than such places being rare or hidden away.

Here is the link to my post about the place (trying a Ban Tian Yao, a relatively rare Wuyi Yancha, but of course they sell "normal" tea), and the shop Facebook page. About Ban Tian Yao, really unless someone is really set on trying versions of Wuyi Yancha they've never had the more common types are fine, just each different (Da Hong Pao, Shui Xian, Rue Gui, etc.). The real trick is finding a really good version, a tea grown properly in an ideal environment, roasted and prepared well, etc., not so much the plant type.

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/09/ban-tian-yao-wuyi-yancha-from-jip-eu.html

https://www.facebook.com/threeshelltea?fref=ts

I tried a decent version of a Thai iced tea recently, and did some research about it to write a blog post. I'll add the link here but type out the most related content so there's not really a need to read it there, except for more description of that particular tea or where I drank it.

Research indicated the tea used is either Assam or Ceylon, tea from India (one region) or Sri Lanka, both types a bit astringent (bitter, essentially). For a tea mixed with sugar and milk the astringency can be a good thing since it all but completely fades out from those additions anyway. In an interesting twist one source said traditional Thai tea was also made with a semi-wild Thai version of the same Indian tea plant, camellia sinensis var. assamica. Essentially no chance of finding that, at least not without spending more time in the North of Thailand, but interesting.

It was also interesting researching which herbs are used to give it that distinctive flavor. There's no clear answer to that, but possible inclusions are orange blossoms, crushed tamarind seed, star anise, and clove. I've tried the last two in masala chai (Indian sweetened milk tea, more typically drank hot, but also iced); add ginger, cardamom, and cinnamon and that's one basic recipe, with clove and star anise really more possible variants.

The orange color is food coloring in modern versions, but it makes you wonder if it doesn't relate to some traditional ingredient that had been coloring the tea, carried over as an artificial ingredient. It was interesting they made the latte version I had in an espresso machine, the first time I've seen that done (it worked). More about that tea:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/09/traditional-thai-tea-at-bridge-cafe-and.html

At the risk of talking to myself, which has already kind of happened, I tried out the best tea I've been served in a tea shop in Bangkok recently, at the relatively new Peace Oriental tea shop.

The tea was Jin Guan Yin, a hybrid version of Tie Guan Yin, combined with a second tea plant type (details on that in a blog post, link follows).

I'd highly recommend this shop, along with the qualification that teas there are between 300 and 650 per small pot. It's enough to brew 9 or 10 one ounce cups of tea, or one relatively normal size cup of tea that takes a half hour to brew and drink in ten parts. It's definitely not for everyone, but for some people just the thing.

Two other places that may or may not sell equivalent quality teas come to mind, but it's likely you couldn't buy a close equivalent to any of the teas, at best different variations of the same quality level.

I'm an advocate of people enjoying whatever tea is appropriate for them, and there are lots of places to get more reasonably priced tea in Bangkok. Even there you could buy this tea for around 1000 baht for 50 grams, so you could brew it 10 or 12 times for three times what one pot costs, maybe even 15 if you use such a small teapot as they do. I've already mentioned other places to get decent tea that costs a fraction of that, just not quite as good.

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/08/jin-guan-yin-at-peace-oriental-tea.html

We bought a nice car seat and stroller combination set in the Zen department store in Central World. I don't remember the exact cost but I can't imagine we spent 15k on that since it was a mid-range brand, Cool Kids, I'm guessing less than half that, maybe 6000 or so.

One consideration is that you can't really use the same car seat for a newborn as for a two year-old. The child is a completely different size. Young babies need to lay down, and an older child wouldn't even if they could fit in the smaller space, which they won't.

Another concern is quality. We bought an inexpensive (Tesco-brand) newborn car-seat for our first child and it was probably safe but better we never tested that out in a crash since one part broke through normal use. There are higher quality brands than the one we bought, Japanese imports made to a higher standard, but you would end up spending 30,000 on the one seat and a stroller, or maybe even a good bit more.

The option of clipping the car-seat portion onto the stroller is nice, since the same concerns come up related to using a stroller for a newborn, but really that first half a year goes fast, and it's better to not travel too much then anyway, so it doesn't matter so much.

seems obvious enough, but you might want to look through the Buddhism sub-forum threads here to see if there is more on this subject

Greetings again! I wanted to mention on new experience that definitely related to tea awareness in Thailand. I visited a restaurant in Bangkok with "tea" in the name (Tealicious) and they served almost all tea-bag teas. I wrote a lot about that in a blog post:

http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/07/tealicious-bangkok-cafe-visit.html

Might seem like I'm being judgmental about both the restaurant and tea-bag teas, and I guess I sort of am. You can get much better loose teas than that, for roughly the same cost. I've tried "high end tea bags" (kind of an oxymoron in tea circles) in five star hotels but they're still no better than very mediocre loose teas.

To be fair, that restaurant served one loose tea I did get and liked, and the food was quite good, so I'd recommend the place, but definitely not as a destination for above average tea, or even tea on par with the relatively inexpensive versions I normally drink.

I think it just comes back to awareness. The shop owners and tourists know no better, or Thai customers, so tea bags are good enough. An online friend I talk to in England claims that's quite normal there, that awareness of teas is generally limited to a few grocery-store tea-bag brands, even though people do drink a good bit of tea in terms of liquid volume.

An intern from Nepal recently gave me a commercial masala chai tea, which I wrote about here: http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.com/2015/08/masala-chai-revisited-tea-gift-from.html

At least they have different options available as commercial teas (there in Nepal), but it doesn't seem like tea awareness is on the same level as in China or Japan (or I guess in India, but I'm only familiar with better Darjeelings from there, not how the common person identifies with tea).

There is a tea enthusiast movement in America, and lots of online outlets and shops turning up, but the average person in America has never tasted brewed loose tea, aside from what they serve in Chinese restaurants (not a great example, but a start).

A girl at work practiced some English by talking to me (a housekeeper), and it was odd to learn she is an English major, nearly graduated, but really couldn't speak English, apparently for lack of verbal practice.

It's unusual to me how good most Thai's knowledge of English is for having studied it in school (the ones I meet doing professional work), and odd the contrast to how little practice speaking they've had. From a background in language study in America you couldn't study and learn a language as written without practicing speaking it in the same courses.

Or maybe it's just hard to compare directly, since I took French and Spanish way back when but I certainly couldn't have communicated effectively with French and Spanish speakers through that. To me the difference was that my knowledge of written French and Spanish from very limited study was also quite limited. If I'd have stuck with either for a four year time-frame I think I'd have been better at both, and Thais are putting a lot more time in starting English study in grade school (starting in grade 1, for the schools my son has been enrolled in here).