ProThaiExpat

For those whose pension letter does not mulftiply out to 800K a year, you will need a bank account to make up the balance, unless things have changed, which I doubt.

Your mindset should be as if you were dealing with a Thai stranger and his family, since Thai law does not recognize your relationship. That said, clearly, you need a legally binding document that gives you the right to use the land of another, in other words "an estate" in land.

There is basically two types of documents that give you such a right in Thailand. A lease and a usurfuct.

A lease is for a defined length of time and a usurfuct can be for your lifetime. In western countries following common law, the right to occupy land for life is called a "life estate", the length of the right is the life of the individual given the "life estate", referred to as the "measuring life".

A usurfuct is basically such a right and has its origins in European law, as opposed to the "life estate", which is English law originally.

Clearly, you need a usurfuct for the land of your Thai boyfriends family and you should obtain the services of a competent Thai attorney to prepare one for you and to make sure the document is properly recorded at the local land office. Yes, the land office does have such forms and would help you to fill it out and record it properly if you speak Thai.

If you do not expect to live more than 30 more years, a land lease will suffice. Those also can be obtained at the land office or through a competent attorney. There has been some talk of lease periods longer than 30 years being established as a change in the law, however, I do not know the status of that "announcement".

Once you have establsihed your right of possession to the land in question through the usurfuct or the land lease, your set to build your house, contracting in your own name for the purchase of materials, utilities and the like. If you use a reputable builder, make sure your lawyer reviews the contracts with the contractor so you have documents that make it clear the house is owned by you after you have paid for it.

You might suggest to your lawyer, when he draws the usurfuct or land lease, that he put in some gratuitous language regarding your right to "quiet enjoyment" of your estate in land and the financial penalties you establish in the contract for the owner of the land or his successors for "breach of quiet enjoyment". Probably of little legal effect, but most daunting for any "family" to contemplate if they want to disturb you in your use of the land.

While you may be contemplating a "gift" of the land in question for your life, your lawyer may suggest that making a payment for the right to use the land be in the contract to make it more enforceable.

You might consult this website for further information: http://www.samuiforsale.com/

Good luck and email me with further detailed questions at prothaiexpat (at) gmail.com. Yes, I fit the profile of the persons you say your seeking help from and then some!!

You appear intelligent so your capable of researching your question on T.V. regarding U.S. visas for Thais.

There is not much point in discussing issues with you until you educate yourself through research and then come in a ask pointed questions. I have posted at length on this subject in the past year and so feel you should read what has already has been posted before asking those of us who have been successful in obtaining a U.S. vistor visa such broad questions.

From you questions, it is clear you know little about it so far so start studying the threads on the subject.

If you approach the subject from a desire to learn as much as possbile and be able to make your own reasoned judgements, then start with the U.S. Department of State web sites, particularly understanding the guidelines the embassy or consulate personnel use to judge your g/fs application.

The primary criteria used and the one that rests solely on your girlfriend to prove is that she "Has a compelling reason to return to Thailand before her visa expires".

By legal mandate, each evaluating officer must enter the interview with your g/f with the mindset that your g/f intends to overstay her visa and she must convince them otherwise through her documentary presentation and her verbal iterview.

If your looking to get her an education visa or a fiance visa, I have no actual experience with these types of visas and will leave it to others to advise you on that score. I know a fiance visa requires a great deal of time and doumentaton.

Any young Thai person without a job has a very difficult time proving that they have a "compelling reason to return", but it can be done.

Right off the bat, your involvement with her only hurts since you are presumably a U.S. citizen and her heart strings are tied to you, thus the reasoning goes, she will overstay her visa to be with you in the U.S.

For a tourist visa, having made one trip overseas already and returned within the visa period, that is a big step up for her. Especially, since her Italian trip involved educational pursuits. I would suggest that she apply for a tourist visa based on her desire to visit universities to determine which one she would like to apply to for graduate education. Easy to make appointments with U.S. college entrance officials. Her visa "story" can always change after she gets the visa. But at the time of application, everything must be consistent. Her facility with English will help her in the interview and also support her "desire" to advance her ability to speak English and obtain a Masters in English from a U.S. School.

The state department staff that will interview her will have heard every story known to man and will be looking for "red flags" in her story so even rehearsals are called for.

Email me at [email protected] if you would like further help once you have read the threads on Thaivisa and made decisions for yourself which visa you want to try for.

Good luck.

PS A joint account is fatal unless you are going for a fiance visa. She only needs to show enough money in her account to pay for the trip. They like to see a credit card to back her up.

Thanks all, very important information for me as I will be leaving Thailand on the 3rd of November and was planning a visit for pension letter the week before when the Consulate is closed.

Most westernized markets will order your favorite products for you if you ask. Rimping market in Chiang Mai has a terrrible re-supply system so ordering saltines by the case, etc. is the way I go. Since the Haitai saltine is what I buy, their regular boxes are divided into 8 foil wrapped packets so moisture deterioration is rarely a problem.

I have even called manufacturers in Bangkok and have orders delivered "up courntry by bus" of staples that are often not available. Very empowering to be self-sufficient in this regard. If the manufacturer, my hard candy manugacturer has a sales staff and doesn't sell direct to customers, they will always point you to a local store that they supply and will ship through them. Discounts are available for case quantity orders.

My best friend lives in a Koolpunt village and he gets incredible service from their permanent followup service people.

Electricians, plumber, dry wall repairs, you name it, they come and do it, charges are involved in many cases, but seem quite reasonable for first class work.

They throw an annual party and even shuttle service to main gate.

Since he is not a handyman by nature, he is really located in probably the only village system that has aftercare to any degree.

He pays for it in high common area fees but it is perfect for him.

He assures me that the common practice of "abandonment" by the developer once the development is completed won't happen to him as Koolpunt has to make a profit from the common area fees and their property ownership is so vast that they will be building new developments for generations to come.

He bought a large "cookie cutter" house of average design. His three extra bedroom windows on the second floor were made of wood so are inoperable after time due to the wood warping, so he leaves them closed all the time and uses aircon when the guests need air. The only true negative I can see and I understand metal windows are being used now by Koolpunt. Yes, they tend to be more expensive feature for feature than many other price conscious developments.

Could anyone line out fundamentally and clearly what are the basic differences between the Non-O and Non O-A visas. Just in a few sentences quoting the main points.

Thanks in advance.

I hardly dare to follow a star member with my answer, but would like to throw in my list:

O-Visa

1. Primarily issued by Thai Consulates, but also Embassies and immigration in Thailand.

All visas are issued by Consulates - the Consulate section may be part of an Embassy.

2. Single Entry (90 days) and Multiple Entries (x times 90 days) possible

It is available in single or multi entry versions at most locations.

3. Multiple Entry Non-O does not require a Re-Entry Permit

No visa entry requires a re-entry permit.

4. Multiple Non-O-Visa expires after 1 year, but can be extended for an additional 90 days by a border run to neighbour country of Thailand

Visas can not be extended - you can obtain a new 90 day permitted to stay stamp

5. Usually no criminal record and medical certificate needed

Have never heard of them being required for a non immigrant O visa.

6. Multiple version requires border runs (leaving Thailand) every 90 days

To remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days would require an exit/return for new 90 day stamp.

7. Fairly easily extendable for another year after expiry if requirements based on marriage or retirement are met (i.e. THB 40000 per month when married to a Thai respectively THB 800000 in a Thai bank for 3 months or home-country-embassy-in-BKK Income Letter of THB 65000 per month when retirement applies).

Extensions of stay may be issued for any normal one year extension of stay reason, work, retirement, family etc.

O A Visa

1. Only issued by a Thai Embassy in home land

Issued by Consulate in country of residence.

2. Issued for 1 year

It provides a one year permitted to stay on entry.

3. Re-Entry Permit required to keep visa alive

Visa is issued single or multi entry. Single entry will require re-entry permit to keep permitted to stay period alive. Multi entry does not require re-entry permit during visa validity period.

4. Can be extended by leaving Thailand (Re-Entry Permit needed) for another year just before its expiry

Can obtain second year if you do not use re-entry permit for trip just before its expiry but use re-entry permit for any travel after visa validity.

5. Criminal record and medical certificate mandatory

6. No border runs required

7. Can also be extended for another year as explained above

I tried to do my best, correct me where I am wrong.

I would be surprised if they didn't at least have an internet facility in the lobby. Anyway, it is a stones throw from at least a dozen internet cafes.

You need to talk to them directly about getting the room at 500 as the published rate is 750. Do a google search under Chiang Mai Montri Hotel but don't use the purported direct booking sites as they are all agencies, not the hotel itself.

This time of year, unlikely you would have trouble getting a room as a walk int. The North hotel mentioned previously is only about 100 meters south of Montri so that is a good back up or the other way around.

Both of these hotels are in the heart of the old city so every conceivable amenity is available within a few steps.

Looking at the various agency websites in google will show you pictures, maps and all the information you need to know.

P.S. my last: Make the reservations for the trip and include the travel agent itinerary in your brochure. They don't expect you to buy the ticket before you get the visa.

A detailed itinerary of your travel plans is a very good idea. Keep in mind that an intended itinerary is not the same thing as what you eventually intend to do, but it gives the interviewer and idea of what you will be doing in the U.S. and where you will be. Local contacts, phone numbers, places of stay, reservations, etc. all add to the "weight" of your application.

In a word, its a "sales pitch" on why they should let you in as he has "many compelling resons to return to Thailand"

Finances are not critical, but it helps if you include information on where travel funds are coming from. Copies of bank books, etc. help to verify you can afford the trip and he won't become a "public charge" while there. For five days, this is a small item.

As teachers, you should be able to put together a brochure with all the relevent documents that address the issue "does your husband have a compelling reason to return to Thailand.

1. His ties to Thailand, ie. job, length, contract, post trip obligations in Thailand, etc. Letter from his headmaster, etc.

2.. Your relationship. Your ties to Thailand and length of stay in Thailand so far. Your visa status.

3. Anything you can think of to document, inclduing pictures, addressing the "compelling reasons" issue.

5. Prior foreign travel and return to Thailand is a biggie, photocopy of visa stamps and separte statement regarding this.

An index in the front of the brochure headed "Compelling Reasons to Return to Thailand" is a strong start. Thus under numbered headings you can cover the points above including a heading, "Prior foreign Travel"

When language breaks down under stress, the brochure will carry the day as it will give the interviewer somehting to look through.

If fingerprints are taken after the interview, you know the visa will be granted, as has been posted, delay in getting passport back is a good sign as well.

For a two week stay, 500 Baht a night at the Montri Hotel can't be beat. No better location with all the amentities a hotel can offer.

When Dr. Korat opened the treatment room on the parking lot level, she explained to me with pride that it was being opened for the handicapped, so they wouldn't have to climb the stairs.

When I was barely able to walk and on "walking sticks", my appointments were still scheduled with her on the second floor. I suspect, she was employing a little "fluff" in her description of the purpose of that room. The only time I have seen it used, was as an overflow room for when the other suites are booked. Reception staff must have a "control" problem when that room is in use.

OPs conjecture regarding the qualifications of his "teeth cleaner" are unfounded. Teeth cleaners at

Grace are gum specilists by training and have the appropriate degrees. Dr. Korat explained that they used general dentists to clean teeth for a while but it didn't work out well for anyone, since gums were often in issue at such sessions and referrals to gum specialists were required. Cross booking of appointments and the many referrals that ended up with "no gum work needed", ended up to be problematic for patients and Grace. Thus, she now uses only gum specialists, sorry I don't know the correct terminology, to clean teeht at Grace. I am sure it ends in "ist"

PS my last.

Chiang Mai is certainly the place to do it if your going to live here and choose the "do it in Thailand" approach.

There is a divergence of opinion as to whether getting an OA non-imm visa in a "home country" is the best way to go or the alternative, entering the country on a visa or a permission to stay at the airport and then immediately going to immigration in Thailand and obtaining an O non-imm visa and then upgrading it to a retirment extension in 90 days.

The two step process in Thailand costs an additional fee of 2000 baht but no police report or health certificate is required.

You must deposit 800K in the bank immediately upon your arrival so it will have aged 90 days when you go for your retirement extension (step 2).

Some people feel that having the OA visa before they travel to Thailand gives them a sense of "comfort" and they don't seem to mind the expense and hassle of getting a medical exam and police report in their home countries.

Each Thai Embassy and Consulate operate by their own rules to some extent so the treatment reported as having been received in varous Thai offices around the world vary widely.

PM me if you have any further "detailed or personal" questions.

If you think falang in Thailand are discriminated against, try being a haole in Hawaii.

I lived there for four years in this century and started a good business, owned two condos on Oahu , he island that has Honolulu.

Believe me, unless you are of substantially mixed blood and a "local" you will feel the resentment. When I moved to Thailand from Hawaii, I made the distinction that Thais envy and respect falang who deserve it but in Hawaii the "locals" envy but resent haole.

The islands are beautiful to live on, probably more expensive than most places to live and if you live in some of the "haole ghettos", you won't know what I am talking about.

Unlike Thailand, I was abble to take an hour or more walk daily and the ocean views are spectacular. Very healthy place to live but a tourist economy for sure.

I lived in a very prestigious condo building in Waikiki, so had not much contact with the "locals", but when I did, I didn't find the experience rewarding. The Japanese-Hawaiians who came to the islands as field hands really suffered at the hands of the while land owners until just after the second world war when they took political control of the islands and their "old boy network" has its tenacles in most of the judiciary, politicians, etc. While there is a definite "melting pot" feeling, the individual immigrants do stick together, which can be expected. Those on the bottom of the food chain claim some percentge of "native Hawaiian blood" and use that to elevate their status, even to the point of getting free land from the government. After all, the whites stole the islands from the Hawaiians, if you read the history.

Homes broken down into living units is how many deal with the high costs of housing. However, if you do buy a house, it will be extemely pricey unless you choose to live in the neighborhoods where many turn their driveways into a living room, with furniture, carpets and all and park the car on the lawn.

One condo I owned and sold after four years for almost triple the purchase price, after remodeling, has doubled in price once again. Fact: Purchase price in 1999 $155k, sold fall of 2001 for $400K now on the market for $1 million.

With all that said, if I could afford it, I would be living in my penthouse condo in Waikiki this very minute.

Post previous to mine lodged while I was typing says no appointment as I thought.

The picture for me was problematic. There is a form explaining exactly how they want the picture taken. Your face must occupy a very large part of the 2x2 photograph with a white background. Certain photo studios know this and others do not.

Went I was sent away from the Consulate for an inadequate photo, I had the form with me to show the studio. Up to you whether you want to stop by the consulate and get that form before getting the photo. With your connections, I suspect you know of a photo studio that does a lot of work for U.S. citizen papport matters. I think it has to do with face recognition software and scanning of passport pictures.

I think you will be pleased with the art work on the new passports. They also have an embeded chip. I am amazed they can do it in a two week turnaround.

U....G: I got a renewal passport, my ten years had expired within this year. I merely showed up, filled out the form, paid the fee and waited two weeks, and then went in in the afternoon of a Citizens Service day and picked up the new passport.

They give you a letter to immigration so you can then go and have your visa stamps transferred to your new passport.

They give you back your hole punched old passport so you can use it for your visa transfer and other uses when proof of long stay or other reasons come forth.

A "slam dunk" by any measure.

Please post if an appointment is necessary!!!

I don't recall making an appointment, had to for gettting visa for a Thai. If the web site for the U.S. Consulate Chiang Mai says an appointment is necessary for a passport renewal, do it.

Dear lopbuir3: Please straighten me out on what reading this thread, difficult as it is, tells me.

Those who are living on a one year extension of a O visa based on retirement can get an extension of their their permitted to stay date by making a border run?????

If so, then when the one year extension of the O based on retirment expires, what are you on?

Do they actually extend your one year extension based on retirement at the border run so you don't have to go through all the extension requirements, like embasssy letters, by making a border run. I can't believe this conclusion as you would told me so when I was in Australia last when my extension expired and I had to go through the two step process to get the retirment extension again.

It sounds like you didn't get what you thought your were getting when you thought you were getting stainless steel!!!

Unless your tank is undergroud, which I have no experience with, my stainless stell tank is now 7 years old and not a mark or sign of deterioration. I am not even sure my tank is stainless, just looks shinny and is a very common tank sold my many appliance retailers. I haven't seen one in our mooban deteriorate yet. Could it be salt air?

The water district for Mae Rim, which probably extends halfway to Chiang Mai proper delivers excellent water through my tap and I am happy with it. Yes, I do have large bottles of chilled water for drinking as an alternative, but can't tell the difference except for what I pay.

I have a fridge with a filter and "water in the door". The cartridge clearly states it is a prticulant filter and does not filter out bacteria.

There is a lot of publicity now in the U.S. about the cost in oil to produce all the plastic bottles that hold the water that is drunk by most people out of fear of the local water supply. Los Angeles has some of the best water in the world, but you can't convince people to drink it. The advertising for bottled water works, even getting people to rave over their water which is tap water, bottled and sold as "spring water". Perhaps with all the concern over global warming and the cost of oil, governments might start requiring bottled water companies to identify the source of their water.

Lest we forget, Immigration Officers are police officers.

I have always felt it would be a very good idea to require all falang to sit in an immigration office for half a day, if a slow office doesn't require that already, and have the falang "evaluate" the falangs using the office.

My observations lead me to believe that the average immigration police officer suffers such abuse from falang in the performance of his duties that he is immune to what someone might say in a questionaire. The questionair in question was regarding the office as a whole, was it not? No individual officer was singled out, were they?

I believe praise gets much better results than criticisim so in filling out such a questionaire, I would indicate how good the service was but how it could be improved by positive suggestions for change.

Law abiding citizens rearely have any knowledge or understanding of what immigration police officers have to deal with and thus, we don't understand, the rationale for some of the regualations we find burdensome.

For example, the 90 day reporting rule for those of us who have lived in the same house we built decades ago. Surely a requirement that we notify immigration whenever we change where we live would be sufficient? I don't know why that wouldn't work and yet there may be a very good reason. For one, it may be a device to deport undesireables who do not comply with the rule when there are no other reasons avaialble to get rid of them?

This subject is quite "deep" for a serious analysis.

One distinction we should start off making is what such "parades" mean to the participants vs. the onlookers and then, of course, to the general public who get their "take" from the media.

Having attended a couple of the L.A. Pride Parades, about 10 years apart, I found the experience very liberating and almost "exhilarating". Being closeted at the time, it is almost indescribable to relate my feeling of empowerment when I was able to walk around the festival holding my lover's hand and kissing at will. It seemed so normal and "out there".

The participants in the parade probably feel much the same way and it is indeed a joy. Thus if your a "Dykes on Bikes", a member of PFLAG, gay physicians or any other participating group, "acting out" or demonstrating the momentary freedom of being yourself, is well worth the consequences, as it is a joy rarely felt.

Now that I am "out", I doubt it would have quite the same effect, although public displays of affection are not in my lifestyle in any case, so "acting out" in such a special event may still have some joy.

The public perception of such events is another issue entirely. I am a firm believer that the more outrageous acting of the gay community have done much to push the boundaries of public acceptance, even with the inevitable backlash, although those of us who act "conventional" in everyday life, often have a very positive effect on perception, once others get to know us and our sexual orientation.

The carnival atmosphere of such pride parades makes it fun for straights who attend, a la Mardi Gras, so I am a supporter of such events as the positives outweigh the negatives.

Those cities that are so intolerant of gays and heavily suppress any gay expression, that we read about every year, are the ultimate objective of those who feel a gay parade is a phalanx for inserting a wedge in the "closet door" and a step in the right direction for gay rights. After all, the right to have a parade and act as one wants in that parade, is a fundamental freedom that should be available to all. Decency should prevail on both sides of the issue.

Perhaps the word "Pride" is off the mark, I would use the word "Freedom Parade" as a more appropriate word, however, I think Pride may have so historical meaning that comes from the early gay rights movement and perhaps someone can post the history of the word "pride" and why it is used. After all, "gay" is hardly an accurate way of describing homosexual orientation.

Kaojai: Bravo, well said.

Thank you Nongkhai. It is a credit to the PM of Canada at the time that when he was addressing the legislatures, he admonished them that it was their job to act when there was a "tyranny of the majority" in civil rights issues.

It is a shame that other governments and world leaders don't take similar stands, since by definition, civil rights is about monority rights, not majority rights and it is the "tyranny of the majority" that is the major obstacle to equal righs for all.

Thus, the bigots and religionists in the U.S. are rushing to get state constitutional ammendments in place while they still have a majority of voters against same sex marriage. In 20 years, it will be the other way around but it is a lot harder to throw out a prejudicial constitutonal ammendment than to enact one.

I was thrown off of your meaning in your use of the word "tribe". I think it would have been clearer had you used the work "pack". A very common natural grouping of animals around a pack leader, the dominant or alpha male. Elephants clearly are not so structured as the females and children gather around an "alpha" female and the males are shunned from the the "family".

In the "wild" I think homosexual males may well contribute to the pack by not constantly trying to unseat the pack leader and earn the right to procreate with the females of the pack. Since there are so many animal groupings, I have exhausted my knowledge of what I have learned on the National Geographic Channel.

I submit it is a bit of a stretch to analogize this natural pack model to modern day mankind with all of its complexities.