barryFunk

This is soooo Thailand.

This debate happens all over the world. Think of the Catholic 'ban' on condoms. Ireland had a law until the 1990s banned condom sales to under 18s. This isn't just Thailand....

Meanwhile a rather famous boxer from the Phils wants to ban them completely: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/05/pacquiao-would-like-to-ban-condoms-in-philippines/1

Sad really... the Philippines has one of the lowest HIV/AIDS infection rates in SE Asia and Pacquiao wants to be president.

I'm no expert like you but could you make your false statement here hard with real numbers please?

I'm no expert either but if you want some hard facts:

http://apps.who.int/globalatlas/predefinedReports/EFS2008/full/EFS2008_TH.pdf

Between 2001 & 2007 the HIV/AIDS infection rate stablised. At between 0.9% and 2.1% estimated to have HIV/AIDS in the key 15 to 49 age group, is substantially lower than many other developing countries (ie: much of sub-Saharan Africa, India, etc..) thanks to an education programme that took place within the sex industry. The sex industry is usually a key conduit of HIV/AIDS spreading and as you may have heard, Thailand has a pretty substantial and established sex industry. Page 4 of the report shows the stablising (and slight decrease) in prevalence in Thailand. The rapid rise in infections in the early 1990s paralleled a trend in sub-Saharan Africa but was brought under control in Thailand in the late 1990s. I think this should be applauded. Things could have been much much worse.

The current rate is still above that in the developed world and more needs to be done - especially with intravenous drug users and (as other have mentioned) domestic transmission from husband to wife.

Obviously even one death due to HIV/AIDS is too many, but Thailand has been fairly successful in public health education around the topic and I think this should be recognised rather than the usually 'Thailand is horrible' argument so often presented here on Thaivisa forums.

are we in Thailand here ???????????

What's that supposed to mean? Such discussions are happening in many countries around the world - both developed and developing. If anything, Thailand is at the forefront of forward thinking on safe sex as any visit to a 7/11 or Boots would show you. With the sex industry as it is in Thailand, there could have been a complete disaster with HIV/AIDS infections but this has been kept (mostly) under control thanks to the easy availability of condoms and the education of sex workers.

Sounds like a very forward thinking mother though of course we don't know the full story.

Thanks both infernalman7 and Lakegeneve for your useful and interesting posts. Far too often people on these forums are negative for the sake of being negative rather than using them to discuss reality and be constructive in any criticism.

A couple of thoughts:

- Installing the connection from the MCAT to the MRT should only cost about as much as one full day of operating costs

- How much of a boost do you think the connection will give to the ARL's numbers and what difference would it have made if it had been completed by the time of the launch of the check in services at Makkasan?

With a cost recovery of only about 50%, do they ever have a hope of breaking evening on operating/debt servicing costs? I would say it's unlikely since the CityLine trains are already packed and the logical way to increase revenue would be through the addition of new trains which would increase operating costs. Increasing the fares substantially would be unlikely to increase revenues due to the sensitivity to price of Bangkok commuters. The other option would be to convert Express Line trains to CityLine and double the service frequency but this would be to get rid of a growing revenue stream.

Redesigning the track configuration to allow the Express line trains to stop at both Makkasan and Phaya Thai would go a long way to making that service more attractive though I can't see the check in services continuing for much longer. This would help increase revenue. While my wife and I found them very convenient when we flew to Australia a few months ago, the split of the Express Line destinations can't be helping any. Does anyone know the impact it has had on daily check ins? (Not like they have far to drop from the 20 or so a day a few months ago!).

A very simple additional change would be to install a departures screen at the entrance of the train terminal at Suvarnibhumi that shows the trains departing over the next hour. Last time I took the ARL, I had to ask three people to find out when/to where the next train would depart.

Though is this really a problem? I'm sure the cost recovery on most SRT routes must be low so perhaps a 50% recovery rate isn't that bad?

I wonder what will happen to the Domestic Terminal now. Nothing, I guess. Don Muang should have become Bangkok's domestic airport, same as Haneda Airport in Tokyo. The reason why it hasn't become so is because the powers-to-be "forgot" to build a connecting skytrain between Don Muang and Suvarnabhumi. Amazing Thailand.

There is no need for Don Muang to continue operating. Tokyo sees about twice the air traffic annually as Thailand including more 60 million domestic passengers. Comparing Tokyo's airport needs to Bangkok's is ridiculous. Furthermore, Narita Airport is constrained by local opposition to expansion and has poor links with the centre of Tokyo (more than an hour by train). This makes Haneda a welcome Domestic airport for the largest metropolis in the world.

While Bangkok is a large city and a hub for South-East Asia, Suvarnabhumi has plenty of space to expand and room for four runways. With a separate domestic terminal, Suvarnabhumi could handle all the air traffic for Bangkok on its two runways. Further expansion through construction of new runways would be fairly straightforward since the space for these runways has already been cleared. Building a new runway and domestic terminal would be a much better investment than building an express transport link to Don Muang (unless this was part of a bigger mass transit system).

Having Don Muang stay open is a waste and causes confusion for foreign travellers. The good transport links, existing infrastructure and room for expansion all suggest that a one airport policy makes financial and logistic sense.

it'll be a little workout for ya,but you'll be ok

Really? Escalator down from arrivals to the airport train station and a two minute walk to the platforms. At Phaya Thai, walk down a flight of stairs (or if that's too much for you, there is a well disguised lift), two minute walk to the BTS station (in the same complex) and up an escalator to the BTS.

If that constitutes a work out, is a walk to the nearest 7/11 a marathon?

about 40 minutes i think

20 to 30 minutes depending on whether you take the Express right to Phaya Thai or the CityLine. The Express is comfortable, roomy and quick, the CityLine runs more frequently and only take a few extra minutes but can be congested at peak hours and the seats are a bit shallow.

In ASEAN maybe... but by world standards - Bangkok is still a bargain!

My wife and I moved here from the UK and took about a 40% pay cut when looking at our salaries before. At that time, we were able to save about £600 per month after all expenses. Thanks to lower taxes, lower rental costs (and the place comes with a pool!), lower cost of food, lower cost of transport and - well - lower cost of just about everything except cheese - we're now saving £1800 to £2000 per month. In the UK, we didn't live in London but rather in a mid-sized town on the south coast.

That disgusting 399THB delivery pizza that keeps getting mentioned? Last time I ordered it, I also got all sorts of other greasy stuff with it (wings, etc..) and it came in at about 350THB. Same pizza in the UK? It'd be at least twice the price.

Bangkok's incredibly good value even if it is a bit more pricey than a few years ago.

barryFunk

A lot of posters seem concerned that getting rid of the visa will somehow discourage high end tourists - or at least that's how many of your posts read. Yes - the government/TAT may wish to focus on attracting high spending visitors, but I'm not sure that a wealthy business man or women would decide against visiting Thailand because the visa requirements (or just visa fees) were dropped!!

Secondly, this is not the Thai government suggesting that they will drop visa fees, it's a group of tourism sector business asking for this to happen. It's funny how so many posters on Thai Visa Forums equate anyone Thai suggesting something as the same as proposed government policy. Seems to be an us vs. them mentality. Unfortunate since I have never felt such hostility from anyone Thai since moving here last year.

Reducing visa fees may actually attract higher spending tourists (and probably lots of lower spending ones too - which is OK isn't it?) who do not want the hassle of having to pay up in their home country or on arrival. However, if they still have to queue to get a visa prior to passing through immigration, then such a policy would be pretty pointless. Reducing hassle is going to be more useful than reducing fees.

barryFunk

If Thai execs think they have a flight attendant weight problem, they should go on a familiarisation trip around North America and Australia to see airlines with unattractive and overweight staff!

My wife and I used check in at Makkasan last week and I thought I'd post a quick review. Previously, I'd taken the CityLine train or taken the Express (before check in had opened) a number of times but this was the first time using check in.

I left my office on Silom Road just after 7pm and walked the ten minutes to Silom MRT. 10 to 15 minutes from there plus a five minute walk and I was at Makkasan meeting my wife who had taken a taxi from home. They have bag scanners set up just before the check in area but to access this 'secure' area (including the check in desks) you have to present your receipt for tickets on the Express. I guess this is to prevent people checking in and then taking the cheaper CityLine.

Check in took seconds since there was no one else in the queue. We asked the check in attendant how busy she has been and she noted that we were the 19th and 20th people checking in that day. She said this job was great since it was a good chance to catch up on Facebook!

Quick escalator ride up to the waiting train and five minutes later we were off to the airport along with four (!) other passengers. We arrive at Suvarnabhumi in under 15 mins and made it to the immigration area by 8pm. Not bad considering I was in my office just an hour earlier and check in had already been completed. At immigration, we had eight people in front of us but the official was very efficient an we were through in less than five minutes. There was no queue at security and we were in the TG lounge just after 8:10pm. Looking at the traffic on Silom and on the expressway, I don't think there is any way a taxi could have made the trip faster though admittedly I needed to walk about 15 minutes as part of my trip and not everyone is willing to do this - especially if they have large suitcases.

Arriving in Melbourne, our bags were quick to come out so there do not seem to be any problems getting bags to the plane at BKK.

Overall we were really impressed and will certainly use this option again - if it's still there. For all the reasons mentioned previously in this thread (relative cost, inconvenience of Makkasan, lack of decent MRT connection), very few people are using the service and it seems like it will have to be scrapped if they want to raise CityLine capacity. What we liked most was the comfort of the train on the Express line compared to the cramped and overcrowded CityLine where we've had to stand for the 20 to 25 mins the last four trips to/from the airport. That was worth 100 baht each though I guess there are only a few who share the willingness to pay more for a more comfortable and slightly faster train vs a taxi or the cheaper and less comfortable CityLine.

It was amusing to see once at BKK that there was an official telling tourists that the CityLine was much cheaper and not to bother with the Express line! A group of 10+ had queued up for tickets to the Express but they quickly made their way to the CityLine ticket machines instead.

Regards

barryFunk

At 8pm on 26 February, the queue took less than 10 mins (in fact from Silom Road via check in at Makkasan and the express link, I was in the TG lounge airside within an hour and ten minutes). Re-entering on Monday morning, there were booths without queues at arrivals (with some sleeping immigration staff at them!).

If Thai's goal is to improve their image through this directive, then generating negative publicity through a mandatory weight loss programme is probably not the best way to do it!

Why would anybody want to get out of there car and walk on the skywalk and breath in all those hazardous vehicle emissions, they should spend money on actually cleaning the city, and a lick of paint won't go a miss either. Bangkok is discusting !!!

Please tell me you're being deliberately ironic! Would getting people out of their cars not make the situation far better?

As your leaving tomorrow, can I stay a few more weeks - I promise not to annoy you till you leave.

You have a week! I'm back the second week of March so you can continue your grumpy stay until then

Fair enuff mate ! But they are only here for a couple of "starry eyed" weeks. Did you tell them about the Jet Ski Scams, the "Rip off" taxi's with broken meters ? The two tier pricing and just about everything else designed to extract their cash asap. However i have no complaints with Thai Air, but then i only use them, so except for one trip last year with Air NZ, where we were informed that "the drinks trolley will be shortly coming around, but only one drink per person" I ordered 2 x rum & cokes, one for me and one for the 3 yr old in the next seat and got it also seats were closer than Thai Air.

One drink? Harsh. From my experience, TG usually try and get as many people drunk as possible so they fall asleep! I'm not complaining.

I warn my friends/family of the obvious scams here but that compared to most places in the world it's pretty safe. I've been scammed on a number of my travels (including when I was living in England!) but yet to be here. But then I try and avoid taxis, never take tuk tuks and don't sleep with prostitutes. I have never ridden a jet ski and don't have much desire to. I imagine that all helps.

Tourism is about a short term experience which is why this survey makes a lot of sense and shouldn't shock the complainers so much.

Do you think the flight out on TG would be a good idea?

I'm flying BKK-Australia on them tomorrow night and have flown them over 100 times in the past three years. While their inconsistent hard product (lack of AVOD on most European flights for instance) is a problem, I find the soft product (food, service, etc...) to be pretty consistent and above average. They're certainly better than any North American airline I've flown and better than most European airlines.

The fact I get lounge access with TG does help shift my bias in their favour though I must admit!

All six replies thus far are negative. What a surprise!

If you all hate this place so much, feel it's such a hellhole that no one should enjoy travelling here... why are you here? Leave the place to those of us who actually enjoy living here.

This year my wife and I have a continuous stream of Australian, Canadian and British friends and family coming through our flat on the way to the beaches and up north. All have loved their time in Thailand (and Bangkok) and many have commented on how it's the best place they've visited.

Perhaps (I know - shocking idea!) this poll is accurate and reflects the true sentiment of tourists visiting Thailand? It would also explain all those 747s departing BKK to Scandinavia every night.

If nothing else, can we at least appreciate that this may bring more tall, attractive Scandinavian beauties to Thailand?

Sounds great. I hope it happens.

The most useful places to begin would be Chidlom to On Nut, and Silom/Naradiwas between Sala Daeng and Chong Nonsi station. These are the most congested at street level.

I actually quite like street vendors. They had a bit of life to Bangkok and give it much of its character. It'd be pretty soul-less without them. At the same time, if I'm not in the market for some noodles, covers for my iPhone, or Hello Kitty t-shirts, I'd love the chance to walk the skywalk at double the pace. Getting down Silom from the West to the BTS or MRT is a nightmare most times of the day because of the foot traffic/vendors.

And what about the actual process itself. Changi - scan barcode, scan card, check head, see ya. I'm processed sub 1 minute. It's 2011. Where's the technology? (corruption?). Moreover, gold card with the National Carrier and I can't even fast track. But in KL (not with the national carrier) I can. It's simply bullshit (Melb Airport pulls this crap as well, the only available ATM's being ANZ). You have to get more vocal. At Changi on the way in,some anal security mole insisted on rescanning my work bag that sits in my office, unchanged and has been cleared countless times But she just had to get all worked up and do a rescan, told her it's a work bag, what can't you find, tell me, I'll show you, is this it. I'm sick of being treated like some naughty child or would be terrorist. She keeps everybody waiting while she flounders about, trying to find whatever it is. Have you any braclets in there (quote). <deleted>. Just tell me what you are seeing and we can end the charade asap and everyone can join the stampede to arrivals. (and fyi - I didn't raise my voice, didn't act petulant, I just stood my ground and made my comments).

The outbound delays are a huge problem and need to be sorted out fast. It's reaching international press and bad for Thailand's image overseas. Missing flights because of exit immigration taking an hour plus is ridiculous. TAT should be shouting and screaming about this though I'm not particularly hopeful.

But seriously... chill... You're comparing the best airport in the world (Changi) to an airport in the developing world. Do you really expect barcode readers, etc...? Then you berate the same airport's security staff for doing their job. You want to be fast tracked because you have a gold card but you don't pay for a business class ticket. I didn't realise this was possible in KL but I am a Star Alliance Gold card holder and I have only ever been fast tracked anywhere in the world (on my own airline or otherwise) when travelling in Business class. This is standard.

I notice that you're a Habs fan (the Montreal Canadiens for those who aren't knowledgeable about ice hockey team nicknames!). I flew into Montreal a few months ago on Air Canada and had to wait an hour and 15 minutes to get through security then was accosted by the customs people. Between touchdown and meeting my family in arrivals took nearly two hours. Arriving at BKK has never taken more than an hour for me (perhaps I've been lucky?) and one of the big benefits for me is that flying in on Thai Airways gets me priority tags on my baggage. They almost always come out first ahead of the pack. Nice advantage of that Gold card ;-)

My wife and I fly out to Oz on Saturday - we'll get to the airport four hours early then enjoy the lounge if the lines aren't too bad. Hooray for that gold card. Travel is rarely a pleasant experience no matter where you go in the world. Some airports do it better than BKK, but a lot are just as bad or worse.

I used this a lot last week as I was based close to the line.

I noticed a lot of the express trains were sparse.

Will that last?

Will it be sustainable?

The slow trains were every 20 minutes.

Correct me if I am wrong but were they every 15 minutes a few months ago?

And why didn't they build an underground walkway from Makkasan to the Petchaburi MRT station?

I tried the walk between the two stations one time and thought it would be deemed unsafe by some at night. And paper stuck to walls pointing where the MRT station was, was very strange.

Express trains? It's hard to say but an earlier post noted that the SRT wanted to buy more trains for the City Line. I believe their request was rejected in part due to the Express Line trains being so sparsely used. The Express Line has very tough competition from the City Line and taxis so it's not surprising that few people are using it. Furthermore, on arriving at the train station at the airport, it's actually further and less obvious to take the Express Line. If they were thinking like marketers, the Express Line would have been the closest desk rather than the City Line. Personally, I'd prefer they shifted all trains to the City Line and increased frequency. I've had to wait 15 minutes a few times because I've just missed a train. I'd rather have only to have waited 7 minutes!

The Makkasan/Petchaburi link development is supposed to be underway but by the sounds of your report it hasn't started yet. Since the ARL and MRT are run by different agencies/companies there clearly wasn't enough incentive to get the link in place prior to starting service on the line. Another poster I believe mentioned that there was something wrong with the initial plan specs and that this has caused a delay in construction. As I understand it, the link will be elevated rather than underground. It's not a great situation, but the four to five minute walk between the two isn't all that bad. I've done it with a heavy backpack a few times and a rolling case another and it still saved time compared to a taxi (started at Silom MRT station heading out to the airport).

Also mentioned earlier in this thread (check out all the other posts - they're a great read!), links between transit systems in Bangkok often take a while after initial opening. The Silom/Sala Daeng link between BTS and MRT took a year or two to open once the MRT started service. The BTS/ARL link is excellent and opened in time so perhaps we actually lucked out with this new line!

Hopefully, once the link between the MRT and Makkasan is completed, we'll have a pretty decent system in place.

It will depend on which Star Alliance airline you are flying. If Thai, it's either row A or B - on the far left hand side of the check in area and clearly marked as 'Star Alliance Gold Check-in' once you get there. It's in the same area as Business Class check in.

If flying with another Star Alliance carrier (such as Lufthansa), it will be the Business Class check in desk for that airline. For Lufthansa, I believe that is the far left desk of their check in desks which is around the centre of the land-side departures area of the terminal. I'm not sure about the location of the Singapore Airlines check-in desks but it will be pretty obvious when they get to the terminal.

There is no specific Star Alliance check-in area at Suvarnabhumi.

Yes - used it last year when I needed to be at a meeting in central Bangkok an hour after landing. Met at the gate, escorted in a buggy to the VIP immigration. Everything handled for me. Waiting on a chair while they fished out my bags. Walked me through customs to a waiting new Mercedes which got me to my meeting in about 20 minutes (speed peaked at 165km/h). Two bottles of cold water in the car when it pulled up.

I'm not sure how much it cost since it was paid for me, but it was pretty impressive. Only complaint was that the driver was a bit too fast!

Not sure your comment about typical Thai service was necessary since service provided in Thailand has been about as consistent as my experiences in the last two places I've lived - Canada and the UK. Pretty average but at least usually with a smile!

BF, your advice is very helpful but it is offered 5 months after the OP arrived! I hope he has made it to his destination by now........

Ahhh sh!t!

Massive fail on my part. Apologies.

Even if it takes you an hour to clear customs, you should still have enough time if you take the airport rail link. Take the express train from the Airport to Makkasan if you have a few extra baht to spend. It only takes 15 mins and runs every 15 mins so even if you have just missed one you will be at Makkasan by 8:30 (assuming it takes an hour to get through customs). From Makkasan it's a 5 to 10 minute walk to the MRT - just keep asking people where to go (essentially you exit to the East and walk under the tracks until you hit the main road. Petchaburi MRT station is across the tracks on the right. From Petchaburi MRT to Hualomphong will take about 20 minutes. You should arrive by 9am even if your customs experience takes an hour (which it never has when I have arrived between 6am and 7am - usually much shorter).

Regarding customs, most flights arriving early in the morning are Thai Airways which tend to park in the C arm of the terminal. There is another immigration hall a 5 minute walk further down the hall that's usually quieter early in the morning. You can check the monitors at the first immigration hall and see a live feed of the second hall. In my experience, it has usually been very quiet.

I'd say the bigger risk is your flight being delayed.

Regards

barryFunk

Another option if you want to bypass LAX is flying Korean the whole way to Las Vegas. They have a direct flight from Seoul so that would mean only one change. Not sure what the transfer times are like though.