In surprise summit concession, Trump says he will halt Korea war games

[Rarebear]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 Trump is an inarticulate oaf!

He should have said, we will suspend military exercises as a sign of good faith, (not war games) and we will see how it goes. I  NK holds their end  military exercises will be unnecessary and the money spend could be put to better use, If  NK does not perform, we can always resume them.

 

Who can argue with that?

Would anyone listen to you on the other side if you started out by saying, "Trump is an inarticulate oaf!"  That is the problem with trying to have a discussion here. 

[sanemax]

16 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Jezus you are a baby.

Here https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/world/asia/us-says-north-korea-agrees-to-curb-nuclear-work.html

 

That just states that NK would be willing  to freeze their nuclear activity in  return for food aid from the USA .

  A deal was never agreed upon and nothing got signed

[Rarebear]

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

I never said anything about it just being the USA (there are after all other countries in the world) but I noticed that you conveniently just sidestep the 2012 agreement which was with the US and which was promptly broke one year later once he got what he needed in the form of US aid.

Promising and then breaking promises is a well trodden path for NK so why on earth do you think this will be any different? There is a reason why no other american president has ever met with a NK leader as they all realised that you simply can't trust a single word that comes out of any of their mouths and if you do you are being naive at best, downright stupid at worst.  

There is a reason why no other American President has ever met with a NK leader.  They could not figure out how to do it and maintain support of the people they needed to. 

 

Feel free to prove me wrong and link what other Presidents have said about NK.  How many had deals with NK?  Do you know?

[johnnybangkok]

1 minute ago, Rarebear said:

There is a reason why no other American President has ever met with a NK leader.  They could not figure out how to do it and maintain support of the people they needed to. 

 

Feel free to prove me wrong and link what other Presidents have said about NK.  How many had deals with NK?  Do you know?

Here's a good run down of timelines and the agreements made and broken

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Here's a good run down of timelines and the agreements made and broken

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-timeline---fast-facts/index.html

That does not give a run down of agreements made and broken by Kim

It doesnt show even one agreement broken by Kim

 

[Thaidream]

NK has a history of making agreements and failing to adhere to them- Kim has only been in power since 2011 and there have been no significant agreements between America and NK until now.

 

Time will tell whether N Korea will carry through.  If Trump believes he is being played- you will see massive military exercises being held; troop movements; and more.  Trump's philosophy  when insulted or being played is to hit back hard. I don't  normally agree with it- but sometimes you start speaking soft but the other side needs to know you carry a big stick.  NKorea has now gotten the soft talk- let's all hope there is no need for the big stick.

 

If the US sees  agreements being adhered to and gives Kim assurances of no regime change-NKorea will start on the road to Capitalism aided by huge American investment. The big fear is that China may object to a Capitalistic NKorea.  It is really China who is America's greatest enemy and the  World's.

[johnnybangkok]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That does not give a run down of agreements made and broken by Kim

It doesnt show even one agreement broken by Kim

 

Seriously? Do you have to have it spelled out to you?

2012
(Taken directly from the link I provided)

February 29 - The State Department announces that North Korea has agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile launches and nuclear activity at the nation's major nuclear facility in exchange for food aid - who do you think is in charge at this time?

All the other ones prior to this where with his dear dead dad.

If this is all just too difficult for you to  interpret you can also try https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

I'm beginning to think you just don't want to hear anything that implies that Trump might be wasting his and everyone else's time so this is the last I'll say on the matter and leave you with the thought that of course anything is possible but if we are to go on past history, no one should be counting their nuclear chickens quite yet.

 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

 

If the US sees  agreements being adhered to and gives Kim assurances of no regime change-NKorea will start on the road to Capitalism aided by huge American investment. The big fear is that China may object to a Capitalistic NKorea.  It is really China who is America's greatest enemy and the  World's.

China would be more likely to jump in first with huge investment , South Korea may even invest in NK , with all that land available and a cheap labour force

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Seriously? Do you have to have it spelled out to you?

2012
(Taken directly from the link I provided)

February 29 - The State Department announces that North Korea has agreed to a moratorium on long-range missile launches and nuclear activity at the nation's major nuclear facility in exchange for food aid - who do you think is in charge at this time?

 

Do you know what the word "moratorium" means ?

Look it up .

Wait, it will do it for you 

 moratorium : "a temporary prohibition of an activity."

It was just a temporary agreement , temporary agreements cannot be broken, as they are only temporary agreements and not long term binding

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

NK has a history of making agreements and failing to adhere to them- Kim has only been in power since 2011 and there have been no significant agreements between America and NK until now.

 

 

I'm sorry but that is just not the case. In 2012 Kim Jong Un pledged to halt his nuclear programme in exchange for food and aid. After receiving some 240,000 metric tonnes of food and other aid estimated at some $400 million from the US, in 2013 North Korea announced it's intention to conduct another nucleur test and continue rocket launches.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/29/north-korea-moratorium-nuclear-programme 

[johnnybangkok]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Do you know what the word "moratorium" means ?

Look it up .

Wait, it will do it for you 

 moratorium : "a temporary prohibition of an activity."

It was just a temporary agreement , temporary agreements cannot be broken, as they are only temporary agreements and not long term binding

 

 

Really? Are you actually Kim Jong Un himself as I have never seen so much silly nitpicking in my life. He agreed to stop his nuclear programme in exchange for food. He got the food and then promptly started his programme up again. I can't get any clearer than this. The site uses the word moratorium which is obviuosly the wrong word as it wasn't supposed to be temporary. It just so happened to turn out temporary because he's a lying, thieving, deal breaking dictator who continues to play the US like a fiddle.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I'm sorry but that is just not the case. In 2012 Kim Jong Un pledged to halt his nuclear programme in exchange for food and aid. After receiving some 240,000 metric tonnes of food and other aid estimated at some $400 million from the US, in 2013 North Korea announced it's intention to conduct another nucleur test and continue rocket launches.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/29/north-korea-moratorium-nuclear-programme 

You are completely wrong .

The USA backed out of the 2012 agreement .

After that 2012 agreement , North Korea launched a weather satellite and the USA said that that satellite launch violated the terms of the agreement and the USA suspended the food delivery and the agreement was off

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I'm sorry but that is just not the case. In 2012 Kim Jong Un pledged to halt his nuclear programme in exchange for food and aid. After receiving some 240,000 metric tonnes of food and other aid estimated at some $400 million from the US, in 2013 North Korea announced it's intention to conduct another nucleur test and continue rocket launches.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/29/north-korea-moratorium-nuclear-programme 

I seriously doubt Kim and the Clinton administration signed any type of formal agreement- but  even if they did- it is Trump who is in power and Kim knows full well Trump is prepared to invade NKorea if necessary and it would surprise me greatly if Kim now refused to denuclearize. Kim wants to stay in power and a war will destroy him and his legacy.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

After receiving some 240,000 metric tonnes of food

That food was never delivered and thus they didnt receive that food

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You are completely wrong .

The USA backed out of the 2012 agreement .

After that 2012 agreement , North Korea launched a weather satellite and the USA said that that satellite launch violated the terms of the agreement and the USA suspended the food delivery and the agreement was off

My apologies. I should have said "After being promised some 240,000 metric tonnes of food and other aid estimated at some $400 million, NK then buggered everyone around by testing some 'satellites' prompting the US to see some sense and withdraw it's offer.'.

Anyway. I think I've stated my case and of course only time will tell who got it right. My point though is don't start slapping Trumps back just yet as I reckon it's all just a smokescreen until NK finds another excuse to get back on the nuclear trail. I hope it doesn't but healthy cynicism is a must when dealing with the likes of KJU. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

You are completely wrong .

The USA backed out of the 2012 agreement .

After that 2012 agreement , North Korea launched a weather satellite and the USA said that that satellite launch violated the terms of the agreement and the USA suspended the food delivery and the agreement was off

The US didn't back out of the agreement. It agreed to deliver the food in return for North Korea suspending tests of its missiles among other things. Then North Korea announced it was going ahead with launching of a weather satellite. Turns out the launch was powered by missile engines. The US said that violated the agreement and withdrew the food offer.The UN subsequently agreed.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Your mancrush on Kim is getting weirder and weirder. 

Edited June 13, 2018 by bristolboy

[Thaidream]

What happened in the past is now insignificant- Kim has agreed- Trump has accepted.  I really believe if the accord falls apart- Trump will order an attack.  I hope it never happens but in the end Kim will be destroyed.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

The US didn't back out of the agreement. It agreed to deliver the food in return for North Korea suspending tests of its missiles among other things. Then North Korea announced it was going ahead with launching of a weather satellite. Turns out the launch was powered by missile engines. The US said that violated the agreement and withdrew the food offer.The UN subsequently agreed.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Your mancrush on Kim is getting weirder and weirder. 

You just wrote the same thing that I wrote .

We agree with each other .

Apart from a slight differ of words, you wrote the same thing as me 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You just wrote the same thing that I wrote .

We agree with each other .

Apart from a slight differ of words, you wrote the same thing as me 

Are you the same person who wrote that Kim never violated any agreement he had with the USA?

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Are you the same person who wrote that Kim never violated any agreement he had with the USA?

Yes, I did .

I do side with NK on this .

I think that weather satellites should be exempt from the missile category .

Maybe technically the weather satellite did use a rocket to get into space , but that should be exempt from the attack missile category

[bristolboy]

Just now, sanemax said:

Yes, I did .

I do side with NK on this .

I think that weather satellites should be exempt from the missile category .

Maybe technically the weather satellite did use a rocket to get into space , but that should be exempt from the attack missile category

Well you got not just the USA but the UN against you, also.

The mancrush keeps on getting weirder.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

 

The mancrush keeps on getting weirder.

I ask you to stop the little constant digs , "mancrush" and things like that .

I do not say the same things to you and I ask you not to keep saying the things to me .

   I will ask you once , I will not repeat myself .

Understand ? 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I ask you to stop the little constant digs , "mancrush" and things like that .

I do not say the same things to you and I ask you not to keep saying the things to me .

   I will ask you once , I will not repeat myself .

Understand ? 

Understood.

But it does seem your attitude has changed from saying Kim is a changed person to maybe he wasn't ever so bad after all. Which is bizarre.

[Thaidream]

Good Lord- we can't even agreen in this forum on what happened; terminology; and how to move forward.  Let's hope the real negotiations are better than what I am reading here!!

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 

But it does seem your attitude has changed from saying Kim is a changed person to maybe he wasn't ever so bad after all. Which is bizarre.

North Koreas attitude has changed from previous generations , previously, SK & USA were there enemies , with both North & South Korea eyeing unification with themselves ruling a united Korea , USA with its military and nukes in the South .

  Sworn enemies with China backing NK up .

Things have changed recently , China is no longer NK's staunch Allie with China imposing sanctions on NK .

   NK is/was now isolated .

Without Chinas back-up , Kim fears for his safety .

Kim makes peace with USA , gives up nukes in return for a peace agreement .

USA/SK now will not attack NK ..............and everyone lives happily ever after

[lannarebirth]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Good Lord- we can't even agreen in this forum on what happened; terminology; and how to move forward.  Let's hope the real negotiations are better than what I am reading here!!

New to social media?  "What happened" is largely irrelevant. It is merely the centerpoint for people sharing their biases, ignorance, psychological disorders. Could be about the World Cup or world peace, doesn't matter.

[sanemax]

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

As per one of my previous posts, this “agreement” from NK is no less then it’s 20th 'agreement' to halt it's nuclear ambitions. With such an awful track history of broken promises, why then would anyone in their right mind ever believe a word that comes out of this dictators mouth?

This is the first time that Kim has signed a decaffination , I mean , denuclearisation agreement with the USA

[Morch]

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

Here we go again : 

Make a statement , cannot back it up, tell the other person to google it and after that person keeps asking for a link, say.............Ive already posted it a few pages back .

   I have played that game too often, either you post a link or what you said isnt true

 

Considering you made a whole lot of statements on these recent topics, and that most of them cannot be backed up (either due to them not being actually factual, or relying on your "beliefs" and "feelings"), that's a rather lame complaint there.

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Thaidream said:

What happened in the past is now insignificant- Kim has agreed- Trump has accepted.  I really believe if the accord falls apart- Trump will order an attack.  I hope it never happens but in the end Kim will be destroyed.

 

I think you'll need to have a better rationalization for "what happened in the past is now insignificant". There's no particular reason to ignore either leader's past conduct and ways. Same goes for how previous negotiations failed. Simply announcing it "insignificant" doesn't cut it.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, buick said:

why would halting the war games during peace negotiations be considered a 'surprise concession' ?  the surprise would be if they continued the war games during the peace negotiations.

 

Apparently South Korea was surprised by this. And despite denials, seem this applies for the Pentagon as well. It would have been more appropriate to make it conditional on something tangible from North Korea's end, or to inform allies about intentions.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Morch