IBM To Establish Information Technology Research Center In Thailand

[nick2k]

it is no secret that thais don't really have any respect for foreigners. all you need to do is read thaivisa. as I recall, one thai proudly said quote, "we don't need you". another who is an editor for one of your newspaper said quote, "the usa is an imperialistic country." in my experience, thais don't like americans, they just tolerate them.

we put food on the tables of thai people when we built american factories here, and yet, you treat us like invading armies. you steal patented drugs from us like it is your right. but when we complain, you say <deleted>#k you. and then you wonder why we look down on you?

IBM should be in america giving jobs to americans. you say you are so smart? prove it by telling IBM they cannot bring the technology over here. force them back to the USA - WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.

you want to tell all your friends how bad foreigners are? go ahead. I plan to do the same when I get back home.

like you, "we don't need you."

First of all, I never claimed or suggested that we, Thais, are "so smart." I was just saying that we aren't all freaking idiots as some of you have suggested. That's the difference. I hope this time you can comprehend what I said.

And secondly, to say that we don't have any respect for all of you is just way beyond stupid if you ask me. Obviously we respect those who respect us. Why should we respect pompous farangs who are so narrow-minded that they aren't even open to a slight possibility that we, Thais, 65 million of us or so, are not all the same? It's this kind of stupidity ignorance narrow-mindedness in your president that got you fight in Iraq and soon possibly against Iran. And by the way, you earn your respect (in case you don't know this.)

Thirdly, I don't know how many freaking times I've said this. Thailand welcomes foreign investment. We don't treat foreign investors like "invading armies." Go study the FBA, and read a lot as I'm not gonna waste my time enlightening you on it.

Finally, specifically to you nick, I can't wait to see a foreigner liek you eff off from my country really. Yeah we don't need you. But we need those like Plus, Singa-Traz and several others. I hope soon you will have a nice happy American life in Missouri or Texas or Utah or wherever your folks live.

you know, you said something I agree with. it is all about respect.

so, tell your countryman to respect the patent laws like they should be doing. work with the drug companies instead of giving them the finger.

as for my president, I am with him 100% he did the right thing. but no matter what I say, I know you will not agree. when those muslims down south come up here and destroy the grand palace or wat pho, you will understand how americans feel. but until then, you will be totally ignorant of how we americans feel.

one thing that everybody seems to have forgotten is - bin laden was FIRST in declaring war on the usa. and iraq under saddam was supporting him as was proven when al-zaqawi showed up. but you can't comprehend these facts, can you?

[faranggl]

Lets not get carried away here.

This may all be just the brain child of some mid-level management team that thought of a way to have an expense paid sex holiday! Personal contact, no real commitment. Or perhaps IBM has some regionally targetted project that would benefit from the employment of resident skills and the attendant regional language pool to help achieve market acceptance and success. The IBM headquarters in Armonk NY are darn cold right now.

[falux]

Well, I hope I didn't startyour little war by saying that Thais, in general, have better capabilities than working in IT.

ThaiGoon, if you were a falang, you'd understand that foreigners often are in Thailand because they love your country. As you said, it's not a good idea to generalize, there are goodand bad people in every country and nation. So relax a little.

As for the IT business, let's just see how it goes, ok?

[ThaiGoon]

you know, you said something I agree with. it is all about respect.

so, tell your countryman to respect the patent laws like they should be doing. work with the drug companies instead of giving them the finger.

as for my president, I am with him 100% he did the right thing. but no matter what I say, I know you will not agree. when those muslims down south come up here and destroy the grand palace or wat pho, you will understand how americans feel. but until then, you will be totally ignorant of how we americans feel.

one thing that everybody seems to have forgotten is - bin laden was FIRST in declaring war on the usa. and iraq under saddam was supporting him as was proven when al-zaqawi showed up. but you can't comprehend these facts, can you?

Some of my countrymen do respect the patent laws, and some others obviously don't. It's just like in the US, where some are well-educated, thoughtful, and caring people while many others are rednecked intolerant ignorant hillbillies. As for the drug patents, check out WTO rules if you are oblivious to them.

And I'm not gonna delve into a debate about Iraq war. This is not a place for it. Try to educate yourself more about the supposed Iraq's links to Al-Qaeda. There's a big trial going on right now that's related to it. Cheney will have to testify in front of the grand jury soon. All I'm gonna say is that it's borderline criminal for a head of a country to exploit a national tragedy for his and his cronies' own personal, political and financial gains at the expense of hundreds of thousand innocent lives.

[ThaiGoon]

Well, I hope I didn't startyour little war by saying that Thais, in general, have better capabilities than working in IT.

ThaiGoon, if you were a falang, you'd understand that foreigners often are in Thailand because they love your country. As you said, it's not a good idea to generalize, there are goodand bad people in every country and nation. So relax a little.

As for the IT business, let's just see how it goes, ok?

I understand, falux. I always target my comments at certain individuals. I was drawn into TV because I was interested in how foreigners view my country. At first, I found a lot of constructive criticism and it was very interesting. But more and more I started seeing some people (and it's always the same group of people I've noticed) just keep on mocking and ridiculing my country. I really don't know what they got out of it...and I also don't know if they realize that, yeah, some Thai people can read English and surf the internet too and they do visit this site from time to time...and they do get offended by these ignorant remarks.

[Thai-Aust]

you want to tell all your friends how bad foreigners are? go ahead. I plan to do the same when I get back home.

like you, "we don't need you."

Why are you here? Sex tourist, pathetic old fat farang who enjoys low cost of living? And when would you get back your home? Until you can save some money for airfare?

[sibeymai]

Hey Nick, if you don't like these US companies focusing outside the US then I suggest you buy enough shares to sack the board and set your own policy. Until then, your chance of influencing the board room decisions of corporations is negligible. Complaining about it will only make you bitter as there's nothing you can do about it. And no point blaming others for being more competitive either. That's a situation every American can take credit for.

BTW, if you don't have enough money to buy a controlling stake in IBM then that's nobody's fault but your own.

Edited February 3, 2007 by sibeymai

[nick2k]

Hey Nick, if you don't like these US companies focusing outside the US then I suggest you buy enough shares to sack the board and set your own policy. Until then, your chance of influencing the board room decisions of corporations is negligible. Complaining about it will only make you bitter as there's nothing you can do about it. And no point blaming others for being more competitive either. That's a situation every American can take credit for.

BTW, if you don't have enough money to buy a controlling stake in IBM then that's nobody's fault but your own.

the time is coming when the big american companies will see a reckoning. what they are doing by building overseas is taking away jobs from americans. ..they are traitors. as we speak, millions of american jobs are leaving the shores of america for foreign countries. like chavez is doing in south america, the citizens of america will take back what the traitors have taken from america.

they think of globalization and making profits only.

the time will come when they see the error of their ways. you see, what they didn't take into consideration is - the resources of this planet are finite. the prosperity that all these foreign countries are experiencing will stop because the resources have simply not kept pace with their needs.

global warming is a direct result of the globalization as is the terrorist groups. if we didn't throw our technology into foreign countries, we wouldn't have the current problem of global warming, nor the terrorist threat.

western countries including america is stupid, and naive.

I can't wait for china to take over all the assets from foreign countries in their land. it is going to happen. look at what they are doing now. moving their dollars reserves into other currencies. suck us dry, then, leave us to die.

traitors.

[falux]

Good God, nick2k, get over it. Only losers blame their problems on foreigners. Any smart American will have a decent job and a decent life.

(Maybe you are so bitter because you've been unemployed since WW2).

And regarding the outsourcing, just wait until Thailand is richer than the US, then Thai companies will use your cheap labour.

[Chang_paarp]

the time is coming when the big american companies will see a reckoning. what they are doing by building overseas is taking away jobs from americans. ..they are traitors. as we speak, millions of american jobs are leaving the shores of america for foreign countries. like chavez is doing in south america, the citizens of america will take back what the traitors have taken from america.

they think of globalization and making profits only.

the time will come when they see the error of their ways. you see, what they didn't take into consideration is - the resources of this planet are finite. the prosperity that all these foreign countries are experiencing will stop because the resources have simply not kept pace with their needs.

global warming is a direct result of the globalization as is the terrorist groups. if we didn't throw our technology into foreign countries, we wouldn't have the current problem of global warming, nor the terrorist threat.

western countries including america is stupid, and naive.

I can't wait for china to take over all the assets from foreign countries in their land. it is going to happen. look at what they are doing now. moving their dollars reserves into other currencies. suck us dry, then, leave us to die.

traitors.

Whoa, globalisation is the result of many things. It started before the American revolution, look at the companies that first came to Asia, Europeans were doing globalisation LONG before the USA was a coherent country. Think about the Dutch, the English in Asia and the English, French and the Dutch in Africa, don't forget the Portuguese and the Spanish in South America. The USA is only the current protagonist in this tussle, their companies, like those of many developed countries are using their financial power to have their profit maximised by using the cheapest cost base they can. To not do this would have the directors liable for prosecution for not giving the best returns to their shareholders. Whilst it is nice to say something should be made in this or that country for feel good patriotic (xenophobic?) reasons, the reality of the marketplace is that the customer usually will not pay a premium for that product when there is one identical available for considerably less.

Global warming is a result of the industrial revolution and the changes that have been rent on the surface and atmosphere of the planet as a result of development. For a detailed analysis read the UN report released a couple of days ago. It could be said that it is another result of globalisation.

Terrorism has been around for some time too. The use of violence against a perceived oppressor is nothing new. With modern transport and technology it has a new meaning. It could be said that the American war of independence was one of the more successful terrorist wars of the last few centuries, depending on how you read history.

If the US had tried to with-hold their technology from the rest of the world do you really think it would prevent the development of technology else where? It would have excluded the US from being able to exploit the the advantage of development and consigned it to an irrelevant state. They tried isolationist policies between WW1 and WW2, they had to give up that idea when they had a large problem with unemployment.

The US is currently proving that we can learn a lot from history, look at some of the empires that have come and gone in the last few centuries. The US is currently living well beyond it's means, and if China called in 30% of what it is owed by the US (both public and private finance) the US would be on very shaky grounds. The reason they are moving their reserves into other currencies is they can see what is going to happen in the medium term and they are using sound business sense by diversifying.

[Jimjim]

So I guess if we should not have given our technology to other countries then we should have never had gunpowder, either right? Ya, that was an invention of the Chinese so I guess we should give that back and have invaded Iraq with sticks and stones, right Nick2K?

Man, extremely ignorant posts can be upsetting, and Thaigoon has a right to be upset. His posts were actually quite restrained. I hope he doesn't look down on all farangs due to the igorance shown here.

You are right about one thing, the U.S. has given weapons to our enemies, i.e. Osama Bin Laden in the war against USSR. However, the IBM helping out Thailand with IT is a far cry from giving weapons to our enemies. We are a global economy and they have every right. And when is Thailand going to invade us with this new IT technology? Get a grip on reality, buddy.

[jazzbo]

There are some excellent USA-based web design firms that outsource their work to Thailand including:

http://www.usa.cyber-image.com/index.htm

I remember reading that several US corporations, including those in the Apparel Industry and Telecomm Equipment who, having moved operations offshore, moved them back to the USA because whatever they gained in cost savings was offset by a plunge in customer service and turn-around times. And employees in India are demanding such high wages that some companies have pulled back outsourcing investments in that country.

It is very difficult when an American worker's last days on the job are spent training their overseas replacement. But there are still many R&D and other functions that are best handled in the USA. Toyota maintains Design and R&D Centers in Ann Arbor, MI and Newport Beach, CA:

http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/design-rd/index.html

I would urge anyone on this forum topic to read Senator James Webb's Democratic response to Mr. Bush's 'State of the Union' Address. Note that Sen. Webb specifically refers to the 'Maunfacturing Base' of the economy.

http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/multimedia?id=0011

BTW according to the UofFL Thai Studennt Association there are 67 Thai students now enrolled at the University of Florida (my home state) and mostly are graduate students...and there is also a Thai Student Association at Carnegie-Mellon.

As Mark Twain said about a published death notice: "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

[TAWP]

I hope Nick2K and ThaiGoon could bring boxinggloves to the next Thai VISA pissup.

[nick2k]

the time is coming when the big american companies will see a reckoning. what they are doing by building overseas is taking away jobs from americans. ..they are traitors. as we speak, millions of american jobs are leaving the shores of america for foreign countries. like chavez is doing in south america, the citizens of america will take back what the traitors have taken from america.

they think of globalization and making profits only.

the time will come when they see the error of their ways. you see, what they didn't take into consideration is - the resources of this planet are finite. the prosperity that all these foreign countries are experiencing will stop because the resources have simply not kept pace with their needs.

global warming is a direct result of the globalization as is the terrorist groups. if we didn't throw our technology into foreign countries, we wouldn't have the current problem of global warming, nor the terrorist threat.

western countries including america is stupid, and naive.

I can't wait for china to take over all the assets from foreign countries in their land. it is going to happen. look at what they are doing now. moving their dollars reserves into other currencies. suck us dry, then, leave us to die.

traitors.

Whoa, globalisation is the result of many things. It started before the American revolution, look at the companies that first came to Asia, Europeans were doing globalisation LONG before the USA was a coherent country. Think about the Dutch, the English in Asia and the English, French and the Dutch in Africa, don't forget the Portuguese and the Spanish in South America. The USA is only the current protagonist in this tussle, their companies, like those of many developed countries are using their financial power to have their profit maximised by using the cheapest cost base they can. To not do this would have the directors liable for prosecution for not giving the best returns to their shareholders. Whilst it is nice to say something should be made in this or that country for feel good patriotic (xenophobic?) reasons, the reality of the marketplace is that the customer usually will not pay a premium for that product when there is one identical available for considerably less.

Global warming is a result of the industrial revolution and the changes that have been rent on the surface and atmosphere of the planet as a result of development. For a detailed analysis read the UN report released a couple of days ago. It could be said that it is another result of globalisation.

Terrorism has been around for some time too. The use of violence against a perceived oppressor is nothing new. With modern transport and technology it has a new meaning. It could be said that the American war of independence was one of the more successful terrorist wars of the last few centuries, depending on how you read history.

If the US had tried to with-hold their technology from the rest of the world do you really think it would prevent the development of technology else where? It would have excluded the US from being able to exploit the the advantage of development and consigned it to an irrelevant state. They tried isolationist policies between WW1 and WW2, they had to give up that idea when they had a large problem with unemployment.

The US is currently proving that we can learn a lot from history, look at some of the empires that have come and gone in the last few centuries. The US is currently living well beyond it's means, and if China called in 30% of what it is owed by the US (both public and private finance) the US would be on very shaky grounds. The reason they are moving their reserves into other currencies is they can see what is going to happen in the medium term and they are using sound business sense by diversifying.

I could debate what you said all day. it would take a thesis to explain all my points. but I don't have the time. but I will say this, on all points that you brought up, you are wrong.

but I will say a little to explain my thoughts...

between india and china, we are looking at a population of over 2.6 billion people. compare that with america of only about 300 million. and you will realize that global warming has increased at a rate of more than 10 fold over what it was before. and that is only with considering india and china. globalization is the cause of this advanced stage of global warming.

the advance stage of terrorism as it exists now is due in large part to the internet. if the terrorist didn't have the internet, they wouldn't be exposed to all the things about the western world that make them sick. ..so sick that they are willing to commit suicide to kill us. globalization is responsible for this spread of technology and terrorism around the world.

and to counter your point that technology would still spread even if the western world held it back, that is not true. if the western world withheld their technology, china today would still be a third world as would much of southeast asia, and the middle east. anybody who is old enough knows this to be true. the only reason why china is the force it is today is because of nixon.

finally, to put a focus to this, america companies need to return to america where they should be. their expansion into foreign countries is a danger to the security of the usa. ..your post is a perfect example supporting my belief. your total distain for america can be felt by anybody. and your suggestion that china moving their currency reserves out of america is just normal even further substantiates this.

american companies need to return to america. invest only in america. protect the homeland.

[chownah]

the only reason why china is the force it is today is because of nixon.

You're joking.......right?

Chownah

[calibanjr.]

the only reason why china is the force it is today is because of nixon.

You're joking.......right?

Chownah

Please Chowna, ThaiGoon, etc. Guys, stop responding to this guy, you're just egging him on to make us (Yanks) look increasingly solipsistic, ignorant and lacking in the ability to actually have a dialogue. Chang P made a very measured and composed post, which was totally ignored. I'm not expecting much more in future posts.

[nick2k]

the only reason why china is the force it is today is because of nixon.

You're joking.......right?

Chownah

Please Chowna, ThaiGoon, etc. Guys, stop responding to this guy, you're just egging him on to make us (Yanks) look increasingly solipsistic, ignorant and lacking in the ability to actually have a dialogue. Chang P made a very measured and composed post, which was totally ignored. I'm not expecting much more in future posts.

like someone mentioned earlier, when you start insulting others, that means you are losing the debate.

..I stand by my claim, if it wasn't for nixon, china would still be a third world country today. if you can prove otherwise, let us know all the "technology" that they have invented in the last century. the facts are - the technology that pushed china into the state they are in now came from the western nations. if you don't want to agree to this. please let us know how you feel.

frankly, I want the american companies and the europeans companies to understand just how much they are welcomed in china.

..suck us dry, and leave us to die.

as for you being american, you stopped being american a long time ago - but that's assuming you ever were.

[TAWP]

the advance stage of terrorism as it exists now is due in large part to the internet. if the terrorist didn't have the internet, they wouldn't be exposed to all the things about the western world that make them sick. ..so sick that they are willing to commit suicide to kill us. globalization is responsible for this spread of technology and terrorism around the world.

Let's see, 1993, WTC bombing...internet?

Aw, heck, here you go, the full list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents

As you will notice that there are a lot of attacks pre-internet-days. What is your next theory, that they where all connected to Terrorist-BBSes since the early 80es?

Edited February 4, 2007 by TAWP

[HenryB]

The center will help push Thailand to become the leader of technological service science, similar to India where many skilled human resources are able to generate revenues to the country.

Don't make me laugh, similar to India my foot!

The Indians are quite smart and are by and large very hard working yet as a country they are currently struggling to find enough educated and talented people able do the work that is coming into their country in huge bucket loads. Personally, I think the solution here would be to move those few Thais with the required skills to India in an already established and growing market rather than let IBM invest all its time, money and energy into a country that doesn't really want it.

I mean come on, can you imagine opening up Thailand in the same way that india has been opened up to develop global software solutions or indeed moving all of the current 'international' call / service centres from India to Thailand instead. It is bad enough talking to an Indian call centre as it is where even the best pronounciations can be marred by terrible accents, so can you imagine what it will be like here where the average Thai has difficulty counting to ten (go on ask any Thai to count and you will hear one, two, tee, four, figh, sick, sewen, aye, nigh, ten) and where the cost of calls would go up as you wait for Chaivat to sift through the online dictionary whilst sucking on a bowl of somtam or reading the latest comic.

Even moving software development to Thailand (if this is the plan) would be a joke as the software development costs would triple as productivity dwindles to bouts of keyboard clacking in between gossiping with friends and chomping on yet more kanom every ten to fifteen minutes.

You have to admire the Thai authorities for their visionary yet superficial attempts at progress but I have to wonder if they happened to tell IBM about the current rules on investing here as well as'wanting to do it the Thai way' ... Jeez give me strength...

Thailand is ahead of India. Everyone knowns Thailand is on Par with IBM IBM came here to learn from the Thais. Who do you think invented the computer a Thai.

Edited February 4, 2007 by HenryB

[Khun Bob]

Some lucrative government deals in the pipeline/prospects ?

Also IBM has been in Thailand for a while - I have IBM hard drives manufactured in Thailand - but this is not offshoring/outsoroucing/services work that India is gettling lots of and better at..

Why (IBM) right now is interesting with the new government and perceived anti-foreigner sentiment ?

Anyone checked out what is happenning at the software park north bkk - near laksi ? Wish I'd had a look around there when I stayed closeish...

[bkk_mike]

this is OUR technology, OUR jobs, OUR companies. NOT the ceo, coo, or any of the board of directors. these are AMERICAN companies.

foreign countries don't give a sh*t about us. all they want to do is steal from us. look at all the stolen technology, the stolen drugs, the stolen jobs. wake up before any more damage happens.

like a majority of them say quote, "they don't need us." and personally, "we don't need them".

Typically American.

Very forgetful of where the American companies got their start from...

(or are Pratt and Whitney and GE going to turn around and pay to licence the patents on Jet Engines all of a sudden. Of the big three Jet Engine manufacturers, only Rolls Royce ever paid Whittle for the patent...)

America is still good at Intellectual Property, whether it be aeroplanes, chip design, movies, games, software, they're still among the world leaders.

However, it simply doesn't produce enough IT/engineering graduates, which is all that this is... IBM wants to hire graduates in Thailand and employ them locally.

They have the exact same setup in India, the UK, and any other country where they can find IT graduates to hire... Would you prefer that Indian IT people are employed by American companies in India, or would you prefer to let them all have visas to come and work in the US, because there simply aren't enough people in the US with the required schooling / experience.

From personal experience, your government seems to be the one that's chosen the former. The US companies are stuck with it. As a Brit, I was interviewed once for a job in Chicago, but the company couldn't offer the job because all the H1B visas had been issued for the year. (so I went and worked in Japan instead - where the visa was easy, so long as you're paid enough, and have a degree).

[jbsears]

this is OUR technology, OUR jobs, OUR companies. NOT the ceo, coo, or any of the board of directors. these are AMERICAN companies.

foreign countries don't give a sh*t about us. all they want to do is steal from us. look at all the stolen technology, the stolen drugs, the stolen jobs. wake up before any more damage happens.

like a majority of them say quote, "they don't need us." and personally, "we don't need them".

Typically American.

I don't think many Americans at all would agree with what Nick is saying. He seems to have a very right wing mind. I just want to point out to all the non-Americans that Nick can not be described as "Typically American," maybe "Typically Republican."

[lingyai]

I remember some of the best threads on ThaiVisa of were highlighted about a year ago. I forget if the worst threads were also highlighted (I think not). I nominate this as one of the worst threads of the year!

You have one guy who exaggerates the lack of English skills in Thailand (there are certainly countries where a higher percentage of people speak English but there are still a decent amount of English speakers here)

One guy who wants to nationalize American companies and stop free trade but he supports Bush...(you do know Bush pushes the exact opposite of what you want?)

You have a Thai person who gets pissed off because some people are overly critical of his country and its education system, one can understand why he is a little pissed (admittedly there are some know it all farnags on here who love to act like they are better than Thais) but of course was educated in America…if he went to SOME Thai universities he could understand why farangs rip on them (blatant and accepted cheating).

He also does exactly what he says not to, generalizes people from a certain places, in this case Utah, Texas, etc.

Throw in some other posts that are also crap and you have one lame thread.

Ok now you can rip on me.

[CBinParadise]

This thread is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Would it be possible create parallels of the ThaiVisa.com forums (fora?) with the following property:

Permission to post in the new fora would be limited to those who demonstrate an ability and inclination to share factual knowledge, to practice gentlemanly discourse, and to build understanding and respect between expats and our Thai hosts.

Posting unfounded conjectures, sweeping generalizations, jingoist rants of any stripe, or similar trash in the new fora would get you immediately demoted back to the original ThaiVisa.

Or am I the only person who is tired of reading this dreck? It's gotten worse than TV.

Sincerely

CB

[Jai Dee]

The responses in this discussion have gone so way off topic that this thread is irrepairable.

/Closed.