Amity Treaty Companies And Work Permits

[navajo]

NO PROBLEM: 3 million baht is fine so long as there are no hassels from the Thai Government...That means no shake downs by the underpaid police force here looking to extort money. That means no bullshit! No more red tape. At least that is what it should mean.

ALSO: The same rules should apply to Thai companies doing business in the U.S. except that we should also increase the amount of money they need to keep in a U.S. Bank on U.S. SOIL. SAY 20,000,000 BAHT.

[kdf]

thanks Sunbelt for my Amity property ownership answer.

In the current Thailand situation is there a way to own or protect property rights for a falang couple as homeowners?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Just to make sure, would a sole proprietorship work for me as an exporter to my American friends using my home (condo) address as my "office"? I live in Chonburi province, but I could forseeably be making business transactions in Bangkok.

Some condo associations or landlords will not allow you to operate a business from a condo. If you register a sole proprietorship, you need to register a corporate tax ID. This ID will require a copy of the lease or letter of consent to operate a business. For this we have a service office/ executive desk solution. The rental fee is 3,900 Baht per month for an exclusive executive desk with free internet.

ALSO: The same rules should apply to Thai companies doing business in the U.S. except that we should also increase the amount of money they need to keep in a U.S. Bank on U.S. SOIL. SAY 20,000,000 BAHT.

Thais are suppose to have the same rights as American Businessmen and American Businessmen/women are suppose to have the same rights as Thais. Under the E-2 the USA government in fact require the investor has made a "substantial investment" (typically $25,000 or more) in a U.S. service business. A restaurant in most cases must be around $100,000.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

In the current Thailand situation is there a way to own or protect property rights for a falang couple as homeowners?

You can have property manager rights with a lifetime usufruct (registered as the property manager on the title deed) and own the building structure in your name.

You can be the registered mortgage holder on the land and own the building.

You can do a thirty year lease. If the owner dies or sells the land, however the contract is no longer binding. For this reason, we prefer the lifetime usufruct or superficies over the idea of a 30 year lease with option of another 30 years.

We can put clauses in the 30 year lease that will cover this no extension issue but this provision has never been tested in the courts. You can also have a pro-rata refund if the 30 year lease is not approved. The leaseholder would get back 1/2 of the investment if the extension is not granted after 30 years. Again this has not been tested in the courts. The only thing you can be sure with a 30 year lease is you will get 30 years. Anything more is a bonus.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[wpcoe]

Just to make sure, would a sole proprietorship work for me as an exporter to my American friends using my home (condo) address as my "office"? I live in Chonburi province, but I could forseeably be making business transactions in Bangkok.

Some condo associations or landlords will not allow you to operate a business from a condo. If you register a sole proprietorship, you need to register a corporate tax ID. This ID will require a copy of the lease or letter of consent to operate a business. For this we have a service office/ executive desk solution. The rental fee is 3,900 Baht per month for an exclusive executive desk with free internet.

Actually my question was more about whether the work permit would be valid if I registered my business in Cholburi, but routinely conducted business in Bangkok, or if hoop-jumping would be necessary, but thanks for the heads up on the possible problem registering at the condo.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Just to make sure, would a sole proprietorship work for me as an exporter to my American friends using my home (condo) address as my "office"? I live in Chonburi province, but I could forseeably be making business transactions in Bangkok.

Some condo associations or landlords will not allow you to operate a business from a condo. If you register a sole proprietorship, you need to register a corporate tax ID. This ID will require a copy of the lease or letter of consent to operate a business. For this we have a service office/ executive desk solution. The rental fee is 3,900 Baht per month for an exclusive executive desk with free internet.

Actually my question was more about whether the work permit would be valid if I registered my business in Cholburi, but routinely conducted business in Bangkok, or if hoop-jumping would be necessary, but thanks for the heads up on the possible problem registering at the condo.

If you are working in Bangkok, you need a work permit for Bangkok as well.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[kdf]

Thanks for the ownership info.

I will be calling.

[wpcoe]

Actually my question was more about whether the work permit would be valid if I registered my business in Cholburi, but routinely conducted business in Bangkok, or if hoop-jumping would be necessary, but thanks for the heads up on the possible problem registering at the condo.

If you are working in Bangkok, you need a work permit for Bangkok as well

But, I could use the same receipt for the same B50,000 in taxes paid for the second work permit, as well, I hope?

[Sunbelt Asia]

But, I could use the same receipt for the same B50,000 in taxes paid for the second work permit, as well, I hope?

Yes you could.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[AJARNJACK]

The information about the Treaty of Amity for Americans is very valuable indeed. Many thanks to Sunbelt Asia for their expert advice.

Now that I have the info about getting a work permit for consulting under the license as a 'natural person' I'd like to ask where I get this Treaty of Amity license here in Trang and the cost involved? Once I have that, then from what I understand, I can apply for a Work Permit. Is that correct?

One more question about this kind of business from my home. What type of paperwork is involved each year to substantiate the business? Is an annual audit required so as to require an accountant to prepare?

I'm trying to put together the costs involved annually with such an enterprise before deciding to pursue this idea and I would appreciate any advice once again on this subject.

[Sunbelt Asia]

The information about the Treaty of Amity for Americans is very valuable indeed. Many thanks to Sunbelt Asia for their expert advice.

You are welcome.

Now that I have the info about getting a work permit for consulting under the license as a 'natural person' I'd like to ask where I get this Treaty of Amity license here in Trang and the cost involved?

It can only be applied in Bangkok. Our professional fee for the Amity Treaty with a natural person is 19,500 Baht. The government fee is 25,400 Baht.

Once I have that, then from what I understand, I can apply for a Work Permit. Is that correct?

Yes. I like to add that some Labor Depts. are not familiar with the rules and regulations and may say no at first. In the worse case scenario you would get the work permit in Bangkok and transfer it to your province.

One more question about this kind of business from my home. What type of paperwork is involved each year to substantiate the business? Is an annual audit required so as to require an accountant to prepare?

Just the filing of the PND #90. Our professional fee starts at 1,000 Baht to file this and goes up depending on the work involved.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[AJARNJACK]

I appreciate the good information that Sunbelt Asia has offered to me and this forum.

Now I have just one final question concerning this topic and that it: Is the government fee for a license as a 'natural person' a one time fee of 25,400 baht or is that paid each year?

I'm close to the point now of deciding and need to know the annual cost of operating a business this way.

Hopefully 'the knowledgeable' members of the forum will answer this question for me.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I appreciate the good information that Sunbelt Asia has offered to me and this forum.

You are welcome. Thanks for taking the time to say "Thank you." Much appreciated.

Now I have just one final question concerning this topic and that it: Is the government fee for a license as a 'natural person' a one time fee of 25,400 baht or is that paid each year?

One time fee

I'm close to the point now of deciding and need to know the annual cost of operating a business this way.

Cannot give you a finite answer as you can have many variables. Your annual cost could be nothing ie: rent is nothing as your natural person office is at your house, your tax filing is zero as your Thai wife fills it out) On the otherhand you could rent an office at Wireless Rd pay 90,000 baht rent, etc.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[AJARNJACK]

Many thanks for all of the answers that you've supplied concerning this topic.

Sunbelt Asia, you've earned my respect by offering your knowledge to those of us who "don't have a clue". You've given me all the information I need to know about this subject.

I'll be checking out your website to learn how I go about contacting you to help me with filing the paperwork as a 'Natural Person' from my home here in Trang.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Many thanks for all of the answers that you've supplied concerning this topic.

Sunbelt Asia, you've earned my respect by offering your knowledge to those of us who "don't have a clue". You've given me all the information I need to know about this subject.

I'll be checking out your website to learn how I go about contacting you to help me with filing the paperwork as a 'Natural Person' from my home here in Trang.

Thank you for warm comments. You can contact us at [email protected] or at 02-642-0213.

By the way, with all the filters in e-mails these days, it seems some e-mails go into a black hole and never reach us or visa versa.

If you send a e-mail and don't hear back. I can guarantee you 100% it’s a server problem. We take customer service very important at Sunbelt, in fact five of our staffs position is only to handle e-mails. If for some reason you don't hear from us. Please send a private message using the Thaiviasa forum (located in the left hand corner above the Sunbelt logo on this post. It’s in a dropdown menu mode) or call us again at 02-642-0213. Thanks.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[CosmicSurfer]

Hi Sunbelt...

I've been following this thread with Great Interest as my own personal status in Thailand has legally changed. On March 1'07 I was married to a Thai and registered the marriage on the same day. So I have many questions about how to use this information to ease the Visa/Work Permit stress of living in here these days.

1) I was under the assumption the the Amity Treaty expired a few years ago. When was it Extended? When will it Expire? Can I still set up a new company under its provisions?

2) In post # 25 it is stated that to be a "Consultant" a Sole Proprietorship is not allowed. Then what is the Business Form required to be a "Consultant" and what are the Legal requirements & Tax Filing requirements? Are there any Monthly Tax filing requirements? What are the Monthly Tax filing requirements for Sole Prop.?

3) I have an Individual Tax ID #. Can I continue to use this # for a new Consultant or Sole Propriettorship?

4) If I'm setting up this business and have just been Married in 2007 is it still possible to qualify for a Work Permit this year? What are the time frames I'm looking at?

Also please explain how I can Pay Tax on Income that was made illegally as I can't legally work without a Work Permit. Isn't this a "Catch 22" ?

5) In Post # 43 you state that "Tax filing would be ZERO as my Thai wife would fill it out." Please explain this. Does this mean that as a Consultant or Sole Prop I don't need to have any Business Income to pay tax on? How long can this situation continue before any operating license is revolked?

How can this be accurate if I must pay B25,000 to qualify for W.P.?

6) How does "Natural Person" differ from "Sole Proprietorship"? What are the different Requirements and Tax implications?

7) I understand that as a "Consultant" I can operate as a middleman for sourcing products in Thailand. Is this possible in a Sole Prop or Natural Person, or do I need to set up a Trading Company for this activity?

8) What would be the different costs to me for Sunbelt to set me up with a Work Permit as a Consultant, Natural Person, or Sole Prop? In all scenarios the business would operate intially out of my RENTED Condo apartment. Which form do you recommend?

Thanks for all the help. Regards to the wife.

CosmicSurfer

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi CosmicSurfer and to your wife,

On March 1'07 I was married to a Thai and registered the marriage on the same day.

Congrats to the wife and you. The staff at Sunbelt Asia and I are wishing you both many years of happiness.

1) I was under the assumption the the Amity Treaty expired a few years ago. When was it Extended? When will it Expire? Can I still set up a new company under its provisions?

Amity has been extended indefinitely. Yes you can set up a new company under Amity.

2) In post # 25 it is stated that to be a "Consultant" a Sole Proprietorship is not allowed.

You are automatically a natural person registered to trade as a consultant once you get Amity treaty approval. No need to register a sole proprietorship. The sole proprietorship is only required to be registered to trade in some sectors. Many Thais trade as a sole proprietorship without knowing it. For instance, if they are a freelance photographer or freelance writer, a craftsperson who takes jobs on a contract basis, a salesperson who receives only commissions, or an independent contractor who isn't on an employer's regular payroll, they are automatically a sole proprietor( natural person that does not need to register to trade)

Then what is the Business Form required to be a "Consultant" and what are the Legal requirements & Tax Filing requirements? Are there any Monthly Tax filing requirements? What are the Monthly Tax filing requirements for Sole Prop.?

The only tax filings required are the PND 90 and PND 94. No monthly filings for Vat until you reach 1,800,000 in sales, and then you are required to register for Vat. You do not need to file monthly withholding tax (PND #1) as a sole proprietor or natural person unless you have employees.

3) I have an Individual Tax ID #. Can I continue to use this # for a new Consultant or Sole Propriettorship?

yes

4) If I'm setting up this business and have just been Married in 2007 is it still possible to qualify for a Work Permit this year? What are the time frames I'm looking at?

Your work permit will be good for a year but valid till your extension of stay based on marriage expires.

Also please explain how I can Pay Tax on Income that was made illegally as I can't legally work without a Work Permit. Isn't this a "Catch 22" ?

If you were working overseas and lived in Thailand over 180 days, you had income. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand on a cash basis, regardless where the money is paid, as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. This income in this case was not gained illegal as the source was overseas and brought into Thailand..

5) In Post # 43 you state that "Tax filing would be ZERO as my Thai wife would fill it out." Please explain this.

Was not talking about tax you had to pay the government. This statement was in reference to the possible professional fees required to be charged. If your Thai wife was able to do it, don't think she would charge you.

The tax owed, is a different matter. This would be the same no matter who filed it (unless of course your wife did not take all the deductions)

Does this mean that as a Consultant or Sole Prop I don't need to have any Business Income to pay tax on? How long can this situation continue before any operating license is revolked?

How can this be accurate if I must pay B25,000 to qualify for W.P.?

See above. You need to pay tax if you made a profit.

6) How does "Natural Person" differ from "Sole Proprietorship"? What are the different Requirements and Tax implications?

In a Sole Proprietorship, you have the option of using the deduction of actual expenses or 65-85% deduction depending on the types of income. As a natural person, you have only the option of actual expenses.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

7) I understand that as a "Consultant" I can operate as a middleman for sourcing products in Thailand. Is this possible in a Sole Prop or Natural Person, or do I need to set up a Trading Company for this activity?

After you get the Amity treaty approval, and a work permit, you can trade as a natural prerson for this activity.

8) What would be the different costs to me for Sunbelt to set me up with a Work Permit as a Consultant, Natural Person, or Sole Prop? In all scenarios the business would operate intially out of my RENTED Condo apartment. Which form do you recommend?

In all cases, the work permit professional fee is 6,500 Baht. The government fees for the year would be 3,100 Baht.

The renewal (second year) of the work permit is 3,900 Baht and the government fees the second year is 3,100 Baht.

Thanks for all the help. Regards to the wife.

You are welcome. Nui says Thank you and congratulations on your marriage. All the best.

Regards,

Greg

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[sarpesius]

With special permission you can get a work permit for the province. Each other province you need to apply for the work permit.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

The Thais seem to have a invented a wonderful trick to make a businessperson pay the same fee over and over again.

sarpesius

[CosmicSurfer]

Sunbelt... Thanks for your congratulations. It all happened real suddenly... When the Golden ring comes around, sometimes you just need to grab it quick.. it may never come again.

Sorry, but maybe I wasn't clear enough in a few questions. I'll try and rephrase...

4) If I'm setting up this business and have just been Married in 2007 is it still possible to qualify for a Work Permit this year? What are the time frames I'm looking at?

Your work permit will be good for a year but valid till your extension of stay based on marriage expires.

I don't currently have a valid Work Permit. I'm here on a Non-Imm "B", Single Entry, 90 Days, just renewed in KL last Week on Honeymoon.

I'm not sure if I can qualify for Long-Term "O". I don't have the 400K Baht in Bank. I could show combined income of more than 40K per month based on 2006 Tax filing form of Income earned before I left my last Full time job and Work Permit canceled and My Wife's 2006 Tax filing.

Is this possible? Will I qualify for "O" Long -Term Visa in this scenario?

So My question still applies. Assuming I set up an Amity company - Natural person or Sole Proprietor - with Either 3-Month "B", 3-Month "O" or Long-Stay "O", will I be able to get Work Permit THIS YEAR? Under any or all of these scenarios?

Also please explain how I can Pay Tax on Income that was made illegally as I can't legally work without a Work Permit. Isn't this a "Catch 22" ?

If you were working overseas and lived in Thailand over 180 days, you had income. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand on a cash basis, regardless where the money is paid, as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. This income in this case was not gained illegal as the source was overseas and brought into Thailand..

I Don't currently have any Overseas Income. Only money I make here in Thailand, so I need a Work Permit to legally make this money. To work and generate income would be illegal and I would be putting myself in jeopardy to report and pay tax on any income that was derived in an illegal manner by working without a Work Permit. Therefore I require a Work Permit valid for this year (2007) so that I can generate income to pay tax on, thereby fulfilling requirements of paying tax. But I can't get the Work Permit unless I can show B25K in paid tax for LAST year (Not Possible) - OR - Show Gross Turnover of 350K baht which would mean working illegally in my business to produce it this year... Isn't this "Catch 22" ???

This leaves the option to hire 2 Thai employees... an interesting solution that may or may not be possible, depending on the relationship of the "Employees" to me, or my Wife... and their willingness to allow a subtle manipulation of the system and withholding filing requirements.

Is this my Only Option ?? Am I right about the "Catch 22" situation I described above, or is there some other way around this problem that I haven't identified?

Looking forward to your Expert response. Also I'm sending you a PM.

Thanks Again

CosmicSurfer

[Sunbelt Asia]

I don't currently have a valid Work Permit.

This I understood.

I'm here on a Non-Imm "B", Single Entry, 90 Days, just renewed in KL last Week on Honeymoon.I'm not sure if I can qualify for Long-Term "O". I don't have the 400K Baht in Bank.

400K in the bank is no longer an option.

I could show combined income of more than 40K per month based on 2006 Tax filing form of Income earned before I left my last Full time job and Work Permit canceled and My Wife's 2006 Tax filing.

Is this possible? Will I qualify for "O" Long -Term Visa in this scenario?

You will need to show one month PND #1 from your wife. You as an employer will issue this to your "employee."

So My question still applies. Assuming I set up an Amity company - Natural person or Sole Proprietor - with Either 3-Month "B", 3-Month "O" or Long-Stay "O", will I be able to get Work Permit THIS YEAR? Under any or all of these scenarios?

Yes in any of the three scenarios as long as you employ two Thais.

This leaves the option to hire 2 Thai employees... an interesting solution that may or may not be possible, depending on the relationship of the "Employees" to me, or my Wife... and their willingness to allow a subtle manipulation of the system and withholding filing requirements.

Your wife can be a paid employee.

Is this my Only Option ?? Am I right about the "Catch 22" situation I described above, or is there some other way around this problem that I haven't identified?

This is the only option in your case as a sole Sole Proprietor. In 2008 you will have other options.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com