Are you aware of anti-american sentiment in asia?

[haha]

while surfing the web, I decided to check out the forums on several newspapers, and tv stations here in southeast asia.  

to say the least, I was shocked by the amount of anti-american sentiment being vented.  the hatred is so great, it's scary.

www.channelnewsasia.com

www.bangkokpost.com

www.nationmultimedia.com

americans everywhere need to be made aware of this hatred before they plan trips over here, and/or think about investing here.

..in the forum section of channelnewsasia, there are over 15 topics listed, and all of them are anti-american in nature.

scary.  reminds me of what happened in nazi germany before the war.  

pass the word.  all americans need to know.

[pnustedt]

"The press have an obligation to be unbiassed and accurate" - that's a new one on me! The press expresses opinions which reflect those of its readers, whilst satisfying its advertisers and making a return for its shareholders (unless it is in a totalitarian state). But I guess that is a new thread!

Sure, there will be reporting on anti-American feelings - that's news. However, I believe American visitors are as welcome in Asia as they ever have been.

[Brian]

Americans have the opinion that because they have power, that they also have wisdom.

Most (if not every) other nationality disagrees...

[mrentoul]

to say the least, I was shocked by the amount of anti-american sentiment being vented.  the hatred is so great, it's scary.

It's just left-wing ranting, the sort beloved of the intellectual types who oversee editorial pages.

For every 10 or so left-wing rants you get one letter from an American, usually a war vet, to put things back in ''perspective''. Few of them are worth reading, but at least readers are getting their say.

Such unbalanced treatment is common everywhere, not just here. The European press hasn't been too friendly towards the US either!

[Frank]

Americans have the opinion that because they have power, that they also have wisdom.

Most (if not every) other nationality disagrees...

Brian why do stereotype, generalize and making "Americans" inclusive as one group of people?? To stereotype and generalize a group of people, lends to a very weak discussion position, that is easy to attack and disclaim.Your comments fall prey to illogical thought and projecting what you assume is factual. Please show me some facts, to back up your statements.  

Yes, I am an American. I do travel about four months out of the year. I spend most of my travel time in Asia.

[mrentoul]

Americans have the opinion that because they have power, that they also have wisdom.

Most (if not every) other nationality disagrees...

That was cheap, I agree. I am Australian. I don't agree with Brian's assessment. Emotive claptrap.

Don't bother asking for evidence. I think a logical debate is the last thing invited by such comments.

[Brian]

Of corse there are exceptions to the "Stereotype", but a stereotype is created because a large number of "actuals".

Just as we've heard in other threads here about the stereotypical Thai Bar Girl. Yes there may be one or 2 that don't fit the stereotype...

No facts to support my argument, just lots of personal observations. I have lived as an expat for the last 8 years, visited probably 20 different countries in that time and been exposed to many "stereotypical Yanks."

The most glaringly obvious example is the way that America imposses its will on other nations. Kyoto accord and the OIL (Operation Iraqi Liberation) are 2 prime examples. US. is more powerful than those that don't agree with its policies, so therefore the US must be more wise...

And now that the war is over, the US is punishing those countries that dared to have a different opinion.

[laduladiva]

I think there are  ######s in every society and the examples youre using seem to be about the US Goverment rather then the people it self. Im British and I sure as hel_l dont agree with all the shit the British goverment come out with .Personally ive meet a lot more arse hole drunken british people who think its justified to beat the shit out of peopel because they lost a football match( as good example), then Ive been "exposed" to arse hole yanks,also I wouldnt like to be steriotyped as one of those idot football fans.

Where are you from by the way Brian, to me you sound like a "steriotypical" British man who's jealous of the Yanks because theyve taken over Britains place in the world.

[mrvietnam2001]

laduladiva....touche'

Seems that Mr Brian would fancy himself as all knowing and all wise. To which most others would disagree. Thankfully he doesn't have any power.

Fact is Brian oh great one, America and the idea behind the founding of this great place really did find a place of great wisdom with regards to the greatest amount of individual freedom ever before found in 6,000 years of human civilization. Perfect? No, but certainly as a result of that individual freedom and liberty America became the inspiration for the world in the most positive of ways.

Now the direction of this place of course parrallels that of most other places in the world, and that makes it easy to take shots to which most lovers of freedom could make a case against pretty easily.

Your post and banter suggests why the course has changed as the deep thinking of the framers has been replaced by the shallowness of todays power hungry and marxist wannabe's.

What have you done today to make the world a better place?

Florida-Saigon  

[laduladiva]

like to add to my statement that I'm not pro God bless the most perfect nation American fan or whatever it is. I personally think all the more powerful nations in the world are full of shit, (trying to make peace in the world with a hidden agenda) but the point I was making was just becuse a contrys goverment is full of ######s, dosen't mean the people are. Well thats just my opinion.

[Brian]

laduladiva,

Actually, I come from the greatest country in the world, Australia. Not the most powerful by any means, but one in that enjoys all the positives of the US without most of the negatives. Although our biggest problem is little Johny Howard's lap dog attitude to Dubya..

My main point was though, that the US govt doesn't really give a toss what any other country thinks, unless they agree with the US.

[laduladiva]

Sorry Brian, kind whent of on one. I'm just really sick of listning to some British people having a go at anyone who comes from a nation that has ever beat them in power, or football, I do agree with the point you are making but I think it goes for any nation in power. You can even find it in you're own nation if I was to mention the aborigenes. I think the world would be a lot better place if the more powerful nation would spend more time effort and money in helping the other nations getting along whith each other a better rather then taking sides, and I do think it was wrong of you to steriotype all the Americans, sure if you discuss politics with anyone, youre going to find that most people will follow they're own contry as thats what they've been taught to do but with everything else peopel are just people no matter where they're from. I'm sure you don't like to steriotypes as steriotypical Aussy living in Ramsey street , Ordering you're partner around to get you youre next Fosters whilst youre whatching rugby on TV. The same as I don't like being steriotyped as a steriotypical Pommy.

There I go again .......

[Brian]

I certainly don't steriotype all Americans into this group, I actually have some great friends that are Yanks. The original thread was about negative press reports about U.S. I took this to mean against U.S govt, not individual citizens.

The U.S. has a long history of continuing to use international law when it works in its favour and to discredit it when it is not.

The U.S. has the worst record of any Western country, not only in observing international human rights treaties, but also in ratifying them.

And then when negative reports are put in the newspapers, the Yanks wonder why they are being attacked.

On a lighter note:

Last month, a worldwide survey was conducted by the UN.  The only question asked was:

Would you please give your honest opinion about the solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?

The survey was, not surprisingly, a huge failure:

In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.

In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage" meant.

In Africa they didn't know what "food" meant.

In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.

In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution" meant.

In South America they didn't know what "please" meant.

In the US they didn't know what the "rest of the world" meant.

[Frank]

Brian, I find your continuing postings on this subject, as being very weak in both knowledge and facts about America. Any one can bash another country or its citizens. It does not take much intelligence. To continue to bash America or its citizens is your choice, but I see America renting space in your head.

Those people who are hateful of America, should look at themselves first. It is much easier for a person to look at the bad in someone or some country, but yet always forget to look at one's self or one's country FIRST.

[Brian]

Frank, not weak in knowledge. Here are some facts:

The United States has one of the worst records of all when it comes to bypassing or subverting important UN resolutions.

The U.S. has a history of continuing to use international law when it works in its favour and to discredit it when it is not.

For example, the U.S. filed suit against Iran before the International Court of Justice (the World Court) for taking U.S. diplomats as hostages. Yet, only four years later, when Nicaragua took the U.S. to the World Court for mining the harbour of its principal port the U.S. refused to accept the court's jurisdiction.

In 1988 the World Court ordered that an execution of a Paraguayan citizen in the U.S. be suspended. It argued that under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, to which the U.S. is a party, the accused had the right to seek assistance from Paraguayan consular officials, which had been denied. Five days later, ignoring the Court, the state authorities in Virginia proceeded with the execution. A similar case was the execution of a Mexican in Texas in 1997. He too was denied consular access. After his execution Governor George Bush stated that since Texas had not signed the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations it was not bound by it.

The U.S. has the worst record of any Western country, not only in observing international human rights treaties, but also in ratifying them. And often ratification when it finally passes through Congress is saddled with reservations. The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (later used by Washington to justify its campaign against the "ethnic cleansing" policies of Slobodan Milosevic of Yugoslavia) was ratified by Congress in 1988, 40 years after the U.S. signed it. The U.S. took 28 years to ratify the International Convention on All forms Of Racial Discrimination after 133 other states had already ratified it. Similarly, 71 states ratified the Convention Against Torture before the US decided to do so. It was 26 years before the U.S. ratified the International Convention on Civil Rights, an instrument which it waged a long campaign to persuade China to sign up to, and which it now uses to upbraid China's human rights abuses. Only two countries in the world have not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child - the U.S. and the collapsed state of Somalia.

The U.S. has been particularly adept at watering down the commitments it has made. For example, it has declared that it will apply the International Covenant Against Torture only to the extent that domestic law allows. It has also made informal reservations on the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, even though some of them are contrary to the object and aims of the treaty. Article 6.5 of the Covenant prohibits passing a death sentence on anyone under the age of 18 at the time of their crime. Yet the U.S. has entered a reservation.

Amnesty International has released two grim reports on child executions. They argue that the U.S. continues to defy the United Nations and to flout international law. "Two thirds of the known child executions in the past decade were carried out in the USA. It is clear that the U.S. is the world's leading perpetrator of this universally condemned human rights violation". In the state of Louisiana seven people are on death row awaiting execution for crimes committed when they were 16 or 17.

Since 1993 Amnesty has documented 24 executions of children - one in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, one in Nigeria, one in Yemen two in Pakistan, three in Iran and 16 in the U.S.. Pakistan and Yemen have since announced they will abolish the use of the death penalty in such cases, as has China, the world's principal execution state.

At the same time that the U.S. was (rightly) trying to pressure Iraq to abide by UN resolutions it has engaged in all out attempt to undermine one of the UN's most important recent creations, the International Criminal Court to try crimes against humanity. Despite President Clinton having signed the statute creating the Court, the Bush Administration has waged war against it. The European Union, subjected to withering pressure by the U.S., appear to have decided to allow individual European countries to sign "impunity agreements" with the U.S. to exempt American military or official personnel from prosecution by the court. But what is sauce for the goose is good for the gander. Why should other countries not exempt their nationals? The legitimacy of the Court is undermined before it even opens its doors. Such is the depth of the U.S. respect for the solemn international will to find a suitable way of trying and punishing the world's worst criminals.

For many years now the U.S. has worked to effectively undermine the writ of the United Nations. How ironic that it seems that Washington, apropos of Iraq, has been demanding that its other members now live up to its Charter.

[mrentoul]

Actually, I come from the greatest country in the world, Australia. Not the most powerful by any means, but one in that enjoys all the positives of the US without most of the negatives. Although our biggest problem is little Johny Howard's lap dog attitude to Dubya..

That's your opinion, Brian, and not everyone shares it. You get the chance to vote every few years...isn't that enough?

If not, go into politics. That's the safest place for proselytising

types: somewhere where voters can forget about you for a few years. I am sure ''little Johnny'' would love to see you there.

The amusing thing about left-wingers, Brian, and of course I lump you in there with that lot, is that you think your opinions are so ''right'' and so much more deserving of being heard. The rest of us are mere plebs.

I'm sure you don't like to steriotypes as steriotypical Aussy living in Ramsey street , Ordering you're partner around to get you youre next Fosters whilst youre whatching rugby on TV.

That doesn't sound like Brian to me. Based on the pro-UN diatribe he gives us above, I'd say he's far too earnest and boring. Socialist Weekly's special correspondent, if there's such a thing as Socialist Weekly any more. How about Chip-on-the-Shoulder Gazette?

[wolf5370]

What is this thing that when someone quotes facts that others don't like, thatr person is always labelled a 'red', 'leftie', 'commie' etc. We are (nearly) all from the west here on this BB; we are all from domocratic countries - lets get away from the 'McCarthyism' and allow people to have their say - freedom of speach and all that.

When opening a thread like this, you are asking for comments either in favour or not - you will also get explainations for the sentiment which I think is where Brian is coming from. If you ask why, listen to the answers rather the shooting those brave enough to answer!

The truth is the American people are (in general of course) a good, freedom loving, world caring, society - the outburst against Gov'nt involvement in Iraq proves this as does many. many other 'people' actions. Unfortunatly, in any industrialised country is going to get its 'fat cats' - they earn the money for the country. This gives them power. Money gives them power in politics, party support etc. This leads to Gov'mt policy that follows the wishes of the 'fat cats' over the people. I'm not stating anything you don't already know - this happens in all of our countries. It is just more obvious when the richest, most powerful nation does it so blatently. No one has made a better job of this than double-yah over turning agreements made by Clinton etc. Buy a copy of "Stupid White Men ... and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!"  written by American journalist Michael Moore and you'll see what I mean.

American's here - don't blame Brian for listing facts (for that is what they are!) - blame the administration and 'fat cats' for making them a reality.

[laduladiva]

Just as we've heard in other threads here about the stereotypical Thai Bar Girl. Yes there may be one or 2 that don't fit the stereotype...

No facts to support my argument, just lots of personal observations. I have lived as an expat for the last 8 years, visited probably 20 different countries in that time and been exposed to many "stereotypical Yanks

.

Here you seem to be stereotyping most Americans which you meet. I can understand why they might retaliate If you keep discussing you' politics on how perfect Australia is and how crap the US is.

I'm just wondering what you're opinion is on how the Austaralian goverment did and is treating the Aborigine people, what would be you're ethical explibnation about the Stolen Generation???

I don't want to seem like I'm trying to put down Australians here I'm just trying to make a point that no goverment is perfect, I think most goverments are a pile of crap personally.

[Brian]

I don't really have to defend my govt here. I know that history is filled with events that we can definately not be proud of.

However, this thread was started by someone that is amazed at anti-american sentiment in some asian news. I was only pointing out why some of that may be. I find it amazing that I'm labelled as a left-wing radical. I just believe that you should look at events with eyes (and brain) wide open.

As for the Australia's current treatment of the aboriginal population, well a Thailand forum probably isn't really the place for me to get started about that...

[Serge]

"Government for the People by the People" Is this not part of the Constitution of the USA?  Now someone suggests Brian should not sterotype Americans.  Who else do you blame for US policy if not the people?  The people vote for their leaders don't they?

I have always been amazed by Americans who ask "Why does the world hate Americans?"!  Nevermind the sentiment in some asian news. I am not a young man and have traveled the world. Let me tell you, the vast majority of the population in our world are not in love with the USA!

I for one, totaly agree with Brian's option.  Let's put it to a vote, why don't we!

[ando]

Interesting to see how the thread has gone from shock/horror at the ammount of anti USA sentiment in Asia, to a debate about US foriegh policy. Well, my Yank friends, I hate to tell you this, but its not just SE Asia. USA is universally held in contempt in just about every country outside USA. Now with current developments in the Middle East, that contempt is growing into hatred.

Sorry to have to be the one to break the news to you guys.

I know you guys would much rather talk about the greatest country on earth, liberty, freedom and all that, but the plain and simple fact is that the vast majorioty of the worlds population in just about every other country, dont agree with you. :ghostface:

[laduladiva]

I'm just trying to point out that you should'nt justify the discrimination of any people becuse of what they're government sais and does. I do agree with you that the US gov is one if not the most hypocritical gov we have in the "western world". Its true that the gov has a don't do as I say, do as I do approach and I don't think anyone can say anything to prove that it dose'nt , but before we start slaiting the US gov we should look at our own Governments a bit more.

[mrentoul]

Someone mentioned above that Brian is merely presenting us with the ''facts''. Well, I prefer to take my ''facts'' from the Economist and the Spectator each week, where at least I can be assured they'll be leavened with a sense of humour and written with flair. I also prefer to have trained journalists present me with the ''facts'', as naive as that may sound.

That's not to put down your writing, Brian: I am sure it's wonderful. But I do think you'd look better on a newspaper letters page. I am sure you have had a go at that. Why is it that everyone these days needs a pulpit?

I hope this board does not become as tedious as soc.culture.thai, where the anti-American debate has been raging for weeks. To each his own, folks! I suggest we all go out for a drink and forget about it.

[laduladiva]

agreed  

[Brian Allen]

<< Americans have the opinion that because they have power, that they also have wisdom.

Most (if not every) other nationality disagrees... >>

Brian's instinctive "lizard-brain" reaction to the opportunity to project the content of his character  into this discussion should be seen for what it is -- the typical reaction of the most of the population of this planet.

He cannot help it. His latent hesperophobia made him do it.

And the Truth is that the majority of the sorry subjects of pretty much every squalidly-fascisocialist state on Earth -- most without even realizing it and despite that all Free Man owe US their very Freedom -- hates America.

Worse, perhaps surprisingly to some -- and especially to those innocent Americans who project their own essential Goodness and Kindness on to all Men -- the America haters ranks include the majority of the universally-ingrate populations of the EURO-peon's Brussels-based Neo-Soviet's squalid little fascisocialist satellite states -- including the one with which we share our language.

This despite that but for Our Beloved FRaternal Republic's love and generosity -- for which we have never asked more than a few hundred acres in which to bury Our Dead -- the would-to-have-been grandparents of every last one of them would instead have been a bloody bar of soap and a lampshade!

Most hate US to the extent their usually-unacknowleged and/or denied America hatred has caused them to have lost the capacity to rationally discuss America's History; our love; our kindness, our boundless generosity [Even to our enemies: Witness modern Germany and modern Japan; both of them created by Our Generosity] long demonstrated in our gifts to the world of our Wealth and of our Blood -- and/or to even see, let alone rationally discuss, America's current situation.  

None of them have any idea of the number and frequency of the ever-escalating Acts of War committed against Our Nation since 1979, when --  with the savage sacking of Our Nation's Embassy, an Act of War -- what is essentially World War Four began in Teheran.

None is aware of the dereliction of the most fundamental of the duties of the occupant of the Office of President of the United States of America which the craven coward Carter committed by not responding to that Act of War.

And none is aware that every foreign aggression perpetrated by the un-and-anti-American criminal gang that so squalidy squatted and bemanured the presidents' quarters in the awful years between 1993 and 2001 was done illegally, unlawfully, unconstitutionally and without that gang ever once seeking or being granted Congressional Approval and/or the authority of the American People for any of its actions. We were as much the victims, that is, of the treacherous KKKli'toon gang's crimes as were Sovereign Serbia's Christians and  Khartoum's asprin manufacturers. And as was the ten-dollar empty tent in Afghanistan blown up with one of the two-million-dollar, hit-a-camel-in-the-butt, wag-the-dog missiles the [Once] white-house ###### wasted there!

Just as Brian is still instinctively reacting, many of my former friends' first reaction to the manifestation of Evil, hatred and rage witnessed on September 11 2001 included barely-suppressed gloating, empathy for Our Nation's attackers and a visceral outburst of gratuitous anti-Semitism.

[Probably the more bloody obscene because I was born elsewhere, became an American as an adult, don't sound American -- and tend to get the unfiltered blast of un-and-anti-American hatred the haters reserve only for one another]

"Former friends," for as the American Nation, post September 11 2001, has redefined the rest of the world's population into "Those who support US -- and those who are of the Enemy -- so have I.

Every one of them quickly followed his initial kneejerked projection with the every-bit-as pathologically-projected supercillious suggestion that we Americans had better look into ourselves for the "reason" the psychopathological perpertrators of that day's mindless bloody evil had acted out their hesperophobically-hatred-driven rage.

Best I can tell, these twenty months, many Actions, many Phases -- and two of the War on Terrorism's major Battles -- post-September 11 2001, many of my former friends [Many "Hate-America-First" Americans among them, by the way -- including lots who parasite the civil "service" dole] like Brian, still haven't got up to speed with the massive change that has taken place on Earth since that awful day.

Americans' easy going ways, patience, kindness, generosity, apparent lack of interest in "world affairs" and tolerance of those who hate US, have always been taken by foreigners and by other fools as signs of our ignorance of the world's envy and hatred and of our "stupidity."

But we were never stupid and we were never ignorant. We were sad for the world that its own inferiority made it loath us for Our Nation's Greatness -- and we were patient and tolerant of its loathing.

We were.

And now we are not.

And, in the new Post-September 11 2003 scheme of things, the world is either with US -- or it is with and of our enemy.

Get used to it.

Oh -- and by the way, Brian -- ours is by far the wisest ever in the History of the species whose very Civilization Our Nation has long Vanguarded -- and Ever Guards.

And Our Power descends FROM Our Wisdom.

Get used to that, too.

Best ones -- Brian

[mrentoul]

You must have come to us from soc.culture.thai. They are all mad over there.

[Brian Allen]

<< You must have come to us from soc.culture.thai. They are all mad over there. >>

Why are they mad?

Did their mummies put away their toys?

Best ones -- Brian

[Boo]

Jesus-H-Christ.... That got some tempers boiling.

Everyone is entilted to their own opinion & that stands true for this forum thread, regardless of whether or not the Americans in this forum agree.

My own beleif is that there are good & bad in every shape, race, colour or nationality but the problem most people have with the USA at moment is your leader, Mr Bush, who pretty much every one I know, thinks is a tosser.

He CANNOT excpect to steamroller every nation on our planet into following his view & excpect everyone to be happy about it. " You are either with America or against America" is not a very democratic stand to have & yes, the events of September 11 were horric & yes the world stood with America on this one because we all as humans beings felt the pain that your nation was felling on a personal level, but Iraq, that was & is a different story, warmongering on any level will not help our planet to evolve as peaceful democratic nations working together for the good of man kind.

Hearing some of the opinions of Americans on this site sicken me. Brian is right, America is not the start & end of the world but a small part of it, & the gov't must learn to work in unison with the other nations & follow the rules the same as everyone else has to.  

And by the way, what was that crap on the last posting about America creating Germany & Japan, civilisations that had existed thousands of years before America was even discovered, that kind of comment is the reasons the rest of the world don't feel very affectionate towards the US & her people in general.

[ando]

Apart from the fact that USA is pretty unpopular in most other countries, most people tend to take Yanks as they find them and give indivuals a fair go. Its only when they get on their soap boxes and start going on with the patriotic self- praise, (modified history), and putting other countries down that the general animosity towards USA becomes personal.

Apart from the few bigmouth braggards, most people I know have no gripe with Yanks as indivuals. And most people never confront a Yank with their countries terrible image untill some loudmouth Yank starts sprukeing off how great they are.

I know its only a few overzelious patriots, but once they start you cant seem to shut them up. Even insulting them just seems to stir them on to even greater and longer speeches of how USA is the bravest, wisest, most wonderful nation ever in the history of the universe. Unfortunately, for the quieter blokes, everyone just remembers the bigmouths.

[mrentoul]

Drink! Drink! Drink! Let me out of here!