What Do You Tell Your Kids?

[qualtrough]

The other day my nine year old daughter asked me who 'designed' us, e.g. our hands, our feet, etc., which I found quite touching. Although raised a Christian, I have never been able to believe in that story so I told her that Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe there is a god, while Buddhists seem to skirt that issue. Actually I am not sure what their position is on that. I cannot tell her something that I do not believe in. My girls do get the Buddhist input from their Mom and school, and I don't have an issue with that, although I would like them to understand at some point that Buddhism as it is practiced here and elsewhere is not very close at all to what Gautama Buddha was talking about. I would be interested in hearing how others have handled this issue.

[suegha]

Kids do ask some excellent questions...

[Brucenkhamen]

Firstly Buddhism doesn't so much skirt the issue as considers it irrelavent.

The Buddha had a wee story to illustrate this. It's like if someone gets shot with an arrow but before accepting medical help wants the answer to questions like; who fired the arrow, what kind of bow was he using, where did he fire it from, what is the arrow tip made of, what is the shaft made of, who made it...

Buddhism is about dealing with life as it is now, just how we find it, rather than making up stories or myths to give answers to questions that don't have any scientific answer. It's about maintaining an open and inquisitive mind rather than filing things away under "Understood" and not having to think about them again.

Of course it isn't always practiced this way in tradional buddhist societies.

I haven't had to deal with your situation myself but I think the best thing you can do is teach your child that it's ok not to know and it's a good thing to have an open mind and consider all the possibilities. So "I don't know" or "Nobody really knows" is probably the best answer.

[suegha]

Firstly Buddhism doesn't so much skirt the issue as considers it irrelavent.

The Buddha had a wee story to illustrate this. It's like if someone gets shot with an arrow but before accepting medical help wants the answer to questions like; who fired the arrow, what kind of bow was he using, where did he fire it from, what is the arrow tip made of, what is the shaft made of, who made it...

I have heard this story before and it doesn't really ring true. Why should our desire to know how we came to be created (whatever form that question takes) be equated with a story of someone getting shot with an arrow?

[Grover]

The other day my nine year old daughter asked me who 'designed' us, e.g. our hands, our feet, etc., which I found quite touching. Although raised a Christian, I have never been able to believe in that story so I told her that Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe there is a god, while Buddhists seem to skirt that issue. Actually I am not sure what their position is on that. I cannot tell her something that I do not believe in. My girls do get the Buddhist input from their Mom and school, and I don't have an issue with that, although I would like them to understand at some point that Buddhism as it is practiced here and elsewhere is not very close at all to what Gautama Buddha was talking about. I would be interested in hearing how others have handled this issue.

I recall the story of a man who came and asked the buddha a series of philosophical questions, such as "is there a god", "is there not a god", etc.

The Buddha replied with silence. Later he explained to his followers that he replied this way because asking/discussing these types of questions did not lead to enlightenment, thus he dismissed them as irrelevant.

In other words, questions concerning creation and "god" are irrelevant to enlightenment and therefore buddhism.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Grover

[suegha]

Ah, well, that's why I could never be a Buddhist...

[Grover]

what? you dont want nirvarna?

[suegha]

what? you dont want nirvarna?

No, I want resurrection at the return of the Lord Jesus and life everlasting in the Kingdom of God. That's my true hope.

ps Thank you for allowing me to express this in the Buddhist forum.

Edited March 29, 2007 by suegha

[Nikkijah]

No, I want resurrection at the return of the Lord Jesus and life everlasting in the Kingdom of God

Are you being serious? You sound like you're taking the p!ss

[Nikkijah]

The other day my nine year old daughter asked me who 'designed' us, e.g. our hands, our feet, etc., which I found quite touching. Although raised a Christian, I have never been able to believe in that story so I told her that Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe there is a god, while Buddhists seem to skirt that issue. Actually I am not sure what their position is on that. I cannot tell her something that I do not believe in. My girls do get the Buddhist input from their Mom and school, and I don't have an issue with that, although I would like them to understand at some point that Buddhism as it is practiced here and elsewhere is not very close at all to what Gautama Buddha was talking about. I would be interested in hearing how others have handled this issue.

Anyway, back on subject after that eye-watering(sphincter tightening) experience that suegha just pleasured me with...

I can't wait for my little boy to start asking me questions about life, I think his questions will be more interesting than my answers

He has already started asking 'what' is everything, hopefully he'll have big wide open eyes for everything and everybody...

Nikkijah

[endure]

Firstly Buddhism doesn't so much skirt the issue as considers it irrelavent.

The Buddha had a wee story to illustrate this. It's like if someone gets shot with an arrow but before accepting medical help wants the answer to questions like; who fired the arrow, what kind of bow was he using, where did he fire it from, what is the arrow tip made of, what is the shaft made of, who made it...

I have heard this story before and it doesn't really ring true. Why should our desire to know how we came to be created (whatever form that question takes) be equated with a story of someone getting shot with an arrow?

Because where you came from is irrelevant to your present situation.

THE PARABLE OF THE ARROW

The Buddha was sitting in the park when his disciple Malunkyaputta approached him. Malunkyaputta had recently retired from the world and he was concerned that so many things remained unexplained by the Buddha. Was the world eternal or not eternal? Was the soul different from the body? Did the enlightened exist after death or not? He thought, 'If the Buddha does not explain these things to me, I will give up this training and return to worldly life'.

He put these questions to the Buddha who replied, "Now did I ever say to you that if you led a religious life you would understand these things? It is as if a man had been wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends, companions relatives were to get a surgeon to heal him, and he were to say, 'I will not have this arrow pulled out until I know who wounded me, of what caste he is, what his name is, whether he is tall, short or of medium height, what colour his skin is, where he comes from, what kind of bow I was wounded with, what it was made of, whether the arrow was feathered with a vulture's wing or a heron's or a hawk's…..' Surely the man would die before he knew all this."

"Whether the view is held that the world is eternal or not, Malunkyaputta, there is still re-birth, old age, death, grief, suffering, sorrow and despair - and these can be destroyed in this life! I have not explained these other things because they are not useful, they are not conducive to tranquillity and Nirvana. What I have explained is suffering, the cause of suffering, the destruction of suffering and the path that leads to the destruction of suffering. This is useful, leading to non-attachment, the absence of passion, perfect knowledge."

Thus spoke the Buddha, and with joy Malunkyaputta applauded his words.

Majjhima-nikaya

[melow]

The other day my nine year old daughter asked me who 'designed' us, e.g. our hands, our feet, etc., which I found quite touching. Although raised a Christian, I have never been able to believe in that story so I told her that Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe there is a god, while Buddhists seem to skirt that issue. Actually I am not sure what their position is on that. I cannot tell her something that I do not believe in. My girls do get the Buddhist input from their Mom and school, and I don't have an issue with that, although I would like them to understand at some point that Buddhism as it is practiced here and elsewhere is not very close at all to what Gautama Buddha was talking about. I would be interested in hearing how others have handled this issue.

Hi There

> The other day my nine year old daughter asked me who 'designed' us, e.g. our hands, our feet, etc., which I found quite touching.

My doughter is just 2 Years old, so i except no question like this from her in the next time :-)

However... i also don't know for sure what's the right anwser.

If i understand Buddhism right, it is saying that our (material) live is like a dream that exists only inside our mind.

That it is an illusion to think, that the World does exists outside (and independently) of our own Self.

If this is true, than our human body can NOT be our real identity,

same as a Dreambody in a nightly dream is also not our real identity (at least, we know this for sure when we wake up from the dream)

For me personally, it is hard to accept this.

But it seems to be true (not because Buddhism is saying that, but i had experience which confirmed that)

OK, because it is (at least for me) hard to accept that the whole material Universe (including all its Space, Time & Energie) does NOT exists outside my self (but only inside), i try to look how and who create and designed my nightly dreams.

So if i ask myself who or what create and/or designed my nightly Dreams,

i can only say: "I don't know. - it seems it comes from alone, i'm not aware of the details of this process, it just happens"

Near to my nightly Dreams are my Imaginations, so i try to look at this kind of inner Reality.

Who create and design the "Objects" that i'm able to imagine my self?

It's me, my inner (non-material) self.

Many people (at least myself) normaly identify them self with the material human body - most of the time.

If it's true that our material world is based of a kind of inner imagination in our own self,

like a long, deep and strong dream in our own mind,

than our human bodys (including our material-brain) are also part of that imagination and can that why NOT be our real self.

So maybe it's possible to say:

Whoever or whatever create and design all the material Objects that we see (in our consciousness)... it may be a good idea to explore our own consciousness to find answers.

Greetings Melow :-)

[sutnyod]

When my kids were very small (like 2-3 years) I told them they were stars before being born. We could sit for hours and gaze at the night sky and make up stories about all those babies there. They liked the idea of having been stars immensly and even told me how it had felt up there. So if one of the younger ones started questions, such as "Why was I born to YOU and not to our neighbour?" the older ones could explain that probably she had taken a liking to me when she was up there in the sky. Later it all fell into place for them with school and atheist upbringing (evolution etc.), but they still have fond memories of these stories.

One question (Evolution!!!!) I have not been able to answer was:

Was Papa Noel a Dinosaur before???

Edited March 30, 2007 by sutnyod

[Brucenkhamen]

I have heard this story before and it doesn't really ring true. Why should our desire to know how we came to be created (whatever form that question takes) be equated with a story of someone getting shot with an arrow?

That's the whole point of the story. Buddhism is about solving the problem of human suffering or disappointment here and now, and it's not an easy process, being shot with an arrow causes suffering and disappointment, and is not easy to recover from.

If you spend you time and attention seeking answers to questions that can't be proven and that don't solve your immediate problem then your immediate problem may never be solved, and you may die without achieving either.

[chownah]

I raised one youngster and he never asked who designed us....if he had I would have said that no one designed us...we just naturally are born and grow up the way we are!!! .....if you don't feel comfortable with this you might just say "I dont' know but our bodies sure are neat/cool/interesting/useful/etc."

This could be supplemented with a talk about how sex works or about a concept of genetics if the child shows interest in pursueing the topic....being sure to try to keep it simple. I started telling my child about how sex worked as soon as he started asking and it worked out well.

Chownah

Edited March 30, 2007 by chownah

[gummy]

Why don't you tell them the truth that we were designed by aliens and beamed down to earth as an experiment ?

[DrFisher]

Just for the record in Buddhism there simply is no god. Buddhism has been twisted and changed over the centuries and it is practiced in many different ways and combined with older religions. Here in Chiang Mai a lot of the Lana religion gets mixed in and the monks allow it to humor the people. I was a Buddhist monk for 10 years in China and Taoism was quite frequently an influence as well as an older local religion , as monks we humored the people but we did not believe in a god, gods or supernatural beings with power and dominion over us. All of that aside I tell my students it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are happy with it because in your final moments your the only one that has to be comfortable with it.

[camerata]

while Buddhists seem to skirt that issue. Actually I am not sure what their position is on that. I cannot tell her something that I do not believe in.

I don't think there would be any problem in explaining "design" in terms of Darwinian evolution and natural selection. It doesn't contradict Buddhism's idea that everything is cause and effect. Whether a kid can understand it is another matter. But then how can anyone "understand" how a god designed humans?

Having said that, it's clear a lot of adults have a problem understanding human life as a series of random accidents.

[Plus]

That's the whole point of the story. Buddhism is about solving the problem of human suffering or disappointment here and now, and it's not an easy process, being shot with an arrow causes suffering and disappointment, and is not easy to recover from.

If you spend you time and attention seeking answers to questions that can't be proven and that don't solve your immediate problem then your immediate problem may never be solved, and you may die without achieving either.

How are you going to solve your "immediate" problem if you don't know what caused it????

How are you going to treat a poisoned wound if you don't know what kind of poison was on that arrow? Do you even realise that your problem might not be an arrow in your shoulder but they poison that would kill you in two hours?

What do you mean it's not important?

You guys make it look like Buddhism is a patch-up work of treating symptoms and ignoring the disease. I'm not sure Buddha meant it that way.

Sometimes you ask your kids to do something and you know you can't explain all the reasoning behind your request right now as it will go over their heads - but it doesn't mean that one day they won't be ready to hear it all.

Sometimes you keep your subordinates on the need to know basis - but that doesn't mean that it's the best and the ultimate management solution.

[Luckydog]

"Daddy, where did I come from?"

"You came out of Mummies Tummy, Darling".

"Really? Only Johny came from Birmingham".......

.......................................................................

"Mummy, where did I come from?"

"You came out of Mummy, darling"

"I KNOW THAT! But how did I get in?"

.....................................................................

Both true stories.

[lannarebirth]

When I was nine I started asking my dad these kinds of questions. He didn't have any real answers but instead set me up in the basement doing bredding and doing research on Drosophila melanogaster. I didn't learn where we come from but I learned how genetics works. We were Catholic, but it's kind of a Buddhist response. Learn from observation..

[Brucenkhamen]

How are you going to solve your "immediate" problem if you don't know what caused it????

That's exactly how you solve the immediate problem, by getting to the root of that immediate problem and solving it there. Not by trying to trace it right back to the garden of eden or amoebas first evolving or suchlike, all that does is provide a distraction from the immediate problem, and maybe some consolation with something to believe in.

Of course if you get very good at rooting out your own problems you naturally start helping other people do it, either actively like the Buddha did or passively by not creating more problems for you and them in the future, it's all worthwhile.

How are you going to treat a poisoned wound if you don't know what kind of poison was on that arrow? Do you even realise that your problem might not be an arrow in your shoulder but they poison that would kill you in two hours?

I don't recall the Buddha mentioning the arrow being poisoned in his simile, but yes if poison is involved you are going to have to trace it back to it's roots to find the cause and therefore an appropriate cure, because the poison is your immediate problem. You may not have time to find out where it was manfactured, what kind of bottle it was kept in and so on...

Sometimes you ask your kids to do something and you know you can't explain all the reasoning behind your request right now as it will go over their heads - but it doesn't mean that one day they won't be ready to hear it all.

Sometimes you keep your subordinates on the need to know basis - but that doesn't mean that it's the best and the ultimate management solution.

Two very good points.

[Plus]

That's exactly how you solve the immediate problem, by getting to the root of that immediate problem and solving it there.

What is the cause of my suffering? Why am I here? Who am I? Do I even exist? What is I? Why do I live under this illusion? What makes it so real? Where did this world come from and what is its relationship to me?

These seem to be reasonable questions if asked at appropriate times and under appropriate conditions.

I wouldn't bother answering them if asked just for fun by a drunk person on in a challenging and demanding tone. Their immediate problems are not concerned with these questions at all.

[Brucenkhamen]

What is the cause of my suffering? Why am I here? Who am I? Do I even exist? What is I? Why do I live under this illusion? What makes it so real? Where did this world come from and what is its relationship to me?

These seem to be reasonable questions if asked at appropriate times and under appropriate conditions.

And do you have the answers? do you know someone who does?

They are good questions to ask, sure, but with an open mind not expecting a definitive answer, this creates a positive open minded approach to life.

What the Buddha was warning against was spending a lot of time and effort on them, also against accepting answers given on blind faith. As one will distract you from what he was trying to teach, the other will stop you having an open inquisitive mind.

They are appropriate questions to ask, and "I don't know" is an answer we should be comfortable with.

[Plus]

I think he was warning about dwelling on issues way beyond our ability to comprehend. These days, coming from the western tradition, we love to speculate about creation, evolution, big bang etc etc. Knowledge is supposed to grow up from our efforts to comprehend the world.

In those days knowledge came from above, pure and powerful, words were considered very potent. If the recipient was not ready, he got nothing.

Nowadays the talk is cheap.

[Brucenkhamen]

I think he was warning about dwelling on issues way beyond our ability to comprehend.

Correct.

[suegha]

No, I want resurrection at the return of the Lord Jesus and life everlasting in the Kingdom of God

Are you being serious? You sound like you're taking the p!ss

Nikkijah, I don't know you and you obviously don't know me. I am a Bible reading Christian who believes in the literal return of Jesus and the establishment of God's kingdom. I have been posting these thoughts on various threads for a number of years - most members who know me respect me for that. Also, I respect other people's differences. Hence my regular postings on the Buddhist forum.

So, no, I am not taking the p!ss!!!

[britmaveric]

Stork!!

[sukanyacondo]

I am interested why if Thailand is so Buddhist that i see very few Thais following this.

1. Do not kill. This is sometimes translated as "not harming" or an absence of violence.
   
2. Do not steal. This is generally interpreted as including the avoidance of fraud and economic exploitation.
   
3. Do not lie. This is sometimes interpreted as including name calling, gossip, etc.
   
4. Do not misuse sex. For monks and nuns, this means any departure from complete celibacy. For the laity, adultery is forbidden, along with any sexual harassment or exploitation, including that within marriage. The Buddha did not discuss consensual premarital sex within a committed relationship; Buddhist traditions differ on this.
   
5. Do not consume alcohol or other drugs. The main concern here is that intoxicants cloud the mind. Some have included as a drug other methods of divorcing ourselves from reality -- e.g. movies, television, the Internet.
   

What I see is the total opposite, just surprised by it all.

[camerata]

"Those aren't Buddhists doing those things, that isn't Buddhism doing those things; those are people doing those things. Buddha never taught anything like that." - Ajahn Chah