Problem With Thai Furniture Company

[daveh]

My Thai wife and I were in Thailand in January. While we were there, we found a shop on Phuket we liked that could send us some carved teak furniture. When we got back to the US, we contacted them to have them make and send us four items. The agreement, in writing, was that I would send half the money first, they would make the furniture and send us pictures, I would send the rest of the money and then they would send the furniture to us.

What happened was, I sent half the money to them, they made the furniture and sent it without taking any photos. The furniture is somewhere on a boat heading to the US. Now they want the second half of the money. I have been contacted by the US shipping company, so I'm confident it really is on the boat.

Here's the problem. I don't want to send them the second half of the money until I see the furniture to be sure it's what we actually ordered. I can't pick up the furniture at the dock without the bill of lading. They won't send me the bill of lading unless I send them the money.

The obvious options for me are: pay and hope all works out, or don't pay and just eat the money sent thus far.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation before? Are there any other options I'm not seeing. Is there a way to take ownership of the furniture without a bill of lading?

If I knew 100% that the furniture was what I wanted, then I have no problem sending the agreed upon amount. This is not some ploy to get a discount because he didn't follow the agreement. I just want to protect myself from a possible scam. The total amount is around 55000 THB.

Thanks,

Dave.

[mikethevigoman]

My Thai wife and I were in Thailand in January. While we were there, we found a shop on Phuket we liked that could send us some carved teak furniture. When we got back to the US, we contacted them to have them make and send us four items. The agreement, in writing, was that I would send half the money first, they would make the furniture and send us pictures, I would send the rest of the money and then they would send the furniture to us.

What happened was, I sent half the money to them, they made the furniture and sent it without taking any photos. The furniture is somewhere on a boat heading to the US. Now they want the second half of the money. I have been contacted by the US shipping company, so I'm confident it really is on the boat.

Here's the problem. I don't want to send them the second half of the money until I see the furniture to be sure it's what we actually ordered. I can't pick up the furniture at the dock without the bill of lading. They won't send me the bill of lading unless I send them the money.

The obvious options for me are: pay and hope all works out, or don't pay and just eat the money sent thus far.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation before? Are there any other options I'm not seeing. Is there a way to take ownership of the furniture without a bill of lading?

If I knew 100% that the furniture was what I wanted, then I have no problem sending the agreed upon amount. This is not some ploy to get a discount because he didn't follow the agreement. I just want to protect myself from a possible scam. The total amount is around 55000 THB.

Thanks,

Dave.

Iwould say bite the bullet and pay the difference,. at least then you will have a chance to recoup your money, (instead of taking it on the chin for 55k,). look on the bright side,it may be exactly what you ordered,. not all thais are dishonest !

[DirkGently]

Wait. They may have sent you a coat rack, a statue of a goat and a box of onions. If they have to wait a week or two, then so be it. It will remind them to send photos next time and as long as they get their money, they will be fine.

[raro]

The original Bill of Lading (B/L) is an ownership document, whoever holds one of the three originals in his hand can claim ownership of the cargo. This explains why the shop will not release the originals until you paid.

If they have forgotten to take the pictures - i.e. there are no pictures - it will be technically impossible to have a look at the cargo before paying. The shop will not release the original B/Ls and the shipping line will not release the container without presenting an original B/L. Be aware that storage charges of containers can become quite costly! Further, you will not only be eating the money paid so far, but there is also a container full with furniture to deal with and the shipping line will make this your problem.

The freight forwarder should have sent you a B/L copy. If not, ask for it, only the B/L is proof that the cargo is really on board. If it is, there is basically no reason not to pay, pictures or not.

Another advise: ask the shop to surrender the original B/Ls after payment. This costs a small fee, but you save the courier charges for the originals as after surrender also copy B/Ls are good enough to claim the cargo from the shipping line.

[daveh]

The original Bill of Lading (B/L) is an ownership document, whoever holds one of the three originals in his hand can claim ownership of the cargo. This explains why the shop will not release the originals until you paid.

If they have forgotten to take the pictures - i.e. there are no pictures - it will be technically impossible to have a look at the cargo before paying. The shop will not release the original B/Ls and the shipping line will not release the container without presenting an original B/L. Be aware that storage charges of containers can become quite costly! Further, you will not only be eating the money paid so far, but there is also a container full with furniture to deal with and the shipping line will make this your problem.

The freight forwarder should have sent you a B/L copy. If not, ask for it, only the B/L is proof that the cargo is really on board. If it is, there is basically no reason not to pay, pictures or not.

Another advise: ask the shop to surrender the original B/Ls after payment. This costs a small fee, but you save the courier charges for the originals as after surrender also copy B/Ls are good enough to claim the cargo from the shipping line.

So far, I haven't gotten the B/L. copy or original. All I have from the shipping company is an arrival notice. On it, it only states 1 crate wooden furniture.

The storage charges are a concern. I'm not sure how the shipping company can make it my problem though. I agree it's the owner's problem. But as long as they do not release it to me, that indicates that they are saying I am not the owner. Of course that doesn't mean they wont *try* to make me pay. But if it came to that, I do have inexpensive legal options.

[Axel]

The shipping company will release the goods to whoever presents the original bill of lading (One original is sufficient) and will collect at the same time any freight and costs including storages.

If not paid within a reasonable time they have the right to auction the goods off to cover costs and freight.

They are neither responsible for the contents as they shipped 1 crate, which is said to contain wooden furniture.

[Crash999]

Hi Dave,

Unfortunately, in order for you to receive the goods you'll need the original bill of lading. And since the Thai company won't give it up unless you pay, you will be paying without seeing the goods. The risk is not only that you don't like the product but it is in fact not at all what you ordered- it could be junk as unless someone inspected the product you won't know what's being shipped to you.

There's no easy answer, unfortunately.

The fault is with the furniture company. They still own the goods so the pressure is on them to work it out with you as they'd incur any extra costs from their shipping company. It's normal for them to ask for payment as the risk from their perspective is that you decide you like the stuff, keep it, and then your money never arrives- they'd have no recourse.

It comes down to how much do you trust the company in question. You need to make a decision quickly, though, as storage/demurrage costs are never cheap and it'll take time for them to receive your payment.

- Crash

[sonicdragon]

What were the terms of trade ? CIF, FOB etc ? Did they offer any explanation about why photos were not taken as per the contract ? Clearly they are in breach but there is no simple remedy. However the onus is also on them to be somewhat flexible in the matter, since the problem is of their making and they are the owner of the goods. Have you suggested paying a further 25% to have them release the b/l so you can take delivery and if all is well you pay the balance ?

[Gumballl]

Could you not have paid with a credit card? Being from the US, you ought to know that if you charge something on a credit card and the product fails to meet your satisfaction and for whatever reason you cannot settle the matter with the vendor, you can petition the credit card company to cancel the charges.

[sinam]

This is a tough one but I guess if they really wanted to rip you off they would have sent you bogus pictures.

Si Nam

[JKaterenchuk]

A couple of thing for you to check.

1) find out what the incoterms are for the shipment. The may have shipped it such that you would be responsible for the shipping charges and any demurrage charges for delay in delivery. Once you know the incoterms for the shipment you can do a internet search to determine if you are responsible for the freight charges or not.

2) contact your bank and determine if they have the ability to do a LC (letter of credit) or a similar financial instrument in a simplistic form. If they can then you can have one done for the balance of the payment and make it subject to satisfactory inspection of the goods on arrival. You would pay the money to the bank, the LC goes to the store in thailand and they can execute it and get paid once you sign off that the arrival inspection passes.

Hope this helps.

[raro]

Ask the shop to send you by mail or fax a copy of the B/L. Does it show "freight prepaid" or "freight collect"? This is shown approx. in the midddle of th document.

The storage charges are always billed to the consignee, i.e. you, but you can of course try to claim them back from the shipper if you feel that they occured because of his fault.

As some other poster pointed out before...if they really tried to rip you off they could have send you bogus pics.

[eljeque]

Could you not have paid with a credit card? Being from the US, you ought to know that if you charge something on a credit card and the product fails to meet your satisfaction and for whatever reason you cannot settle the matter with the vendor, you can petition the credit card company to cancel the charges.

Can you pay the second half by credit card? This way, if the goods are not what you expected, then you would be able to get the second 1/2 back.