In The Event Of The Death Of A Thai Husband

[madcatlady]

Okay this might seem a bit morbid but I was just wondering...

A couple of weeks ago my husband had a motorbike accident. He was okay (minor injuries) but I was a nervous wreck! It got me wondering about what my rights are in the event of his death. I'm on a one-year non-imm O visa on the basis of my marriage to him. What would happen to my visa if he was no longer around??? We don't have kids (yet) and I have taken out a 30-yr lease on the land that we bought and put in his name.

MCL

[sbk]

I believe you would have one week to leave the country and get another visa. You cannot inherit property (although he can will it to you, but you must sell within a year, I believe but could be wrong).

So, essentially, you don't have a whole lot.

[tamsin]

the above reply is total and utter rubbish. from the information i have from farang men married to thais, and therefore should apply to women with thai husbands too, you will not be able to sell the property, but will be able to live in it for the rest of your natural life, not sell the bloody place within a year. but make sure he has a will and you are the beneficiary. you will also NOT have to leave the country within A WEEK, for god's sake. you think immigration will even know he's dead that fast? the worst will be that you will have to report his decease when you go to renew your O visa. bearing in mind he won't be able to accompany you.

i would sincerely suggest you re-post in the visa section and ask lopburi, who will give you as near as dammit a straightforward and truthful answer to your question as you are likely to get on this board.

[sbk]

No need to be so aggressive about it tamsin, the information on having to sell the property within a year I received here on Thai Visa. See this thread here and this thread here.

And you might want to read this post which states the relevant govt act.

And as a farang woman's visa is dependent on her husband (he actually petitions for her to receive the one year extension) I would imagine that without the husband to support one (which is what the visa is) then the visa is no longer valid. Of course, immigration would not know about it if one did not report it but any kind of renewal would be out of the question.

[geoffphuket]

No need to be so aggressive about it tamsin, the information on having to sell the property within a year I received here on Thai Visa.

And as a farang woman's visa is dependent on her husband (he actually petitions for her to receive the one year extension) I would imagine that without the husband to support one (which is what the visa is) then the visa is no longer valid. Of course, immigration would not know about it if one did not report it but any kind of renewal would be out of the question.

I think the actual wording states that the property must be sold within a reasonable, unspecified time. In reality this means you could stay forever, trying to find a buyer!

geoffphuket

[sbk]

From the above link:

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

[cdnvic]

Always nice to have the actual written law to back you up when posting "total and utter rubbish"

[geoffphuket]

From the above link:

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

I stand by my past post. This Law is for land obtained illegally. Not transferred by inhertance.

Edited July 16, 2007 by geoffphuket

[cdnvic]

From the above link:

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

I stand by my past post. This Law is for land obtained illegally. Not transferred by inhertance.

As you cannot, as an alien, lawfully inherit land then it gives you a way to dispose of it. If it had been obtained otherwise illegally (fraud, etc) I doubt there would be such niceties in the law for you. Don't forget, this is a translation and the literal meaning may be fuzzy.

[sbk]

From the above link:

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, my not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

I stand by my past post. This Law is for land obtained illegally. Not transferred by inhertance.

Geoff, this comes into play when you cannot lawfully acquire land through section 93.

[Old Man River]

Last week, I traded information with two others on the inheritance of land issue in another thread. Below is the relevant part of the Land Code covering this issue:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECTION 93 OF THE LAND CODE

"The Minister shall permit the inheritance of land by an ALIEN who is the LAWFUL heir, but such acquisition, when added to that which is already held, may not exceed the amount which may be held under SECTION 87."

SECTION 87 OF THE LAND CODE

For residential purposes, an ALIEN may own 1 Rai.

In the event that you do NOT get the Minister's approval under SECTION 93, SECTION 94 comes into play.

SECTION 94 OF THE LAND CODE

"All land which an ALIEN has acquired unlawfully or without permission shall be disposed of by such ALIEN within the time limit prescribed by the Director-General, which shall not be less than 180 days, nor more than 1 year.

If the land is not disposed of within the time prescribed, the Director-General shall have the power to dispose of it."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only thing clear about the Land Code on this issue is that it isn't clear. The above is the official English language translation. In this case does "shall" mean it is an imperative command or a direction which isn't mandatory?

To try to better understand this, last year I had a Thai attorney from one of the big international law firms in Bangkok call the Competent Authority (CA) at Bangkok's Land Department. The CA said that it is normal in Thai law to state "the Minister shall permit" as a means of courtesy, but in practice since the law allows it the Land Dept. never bothers the Minister with this and approves the inheritances straight away with no time limits. Is this legal? I don't know, but it is how it is handled. Would I feel comfortable with this should my Thai spouse proceed me in death? No, of course not. While I expect that there are several who have inherited land with no time limits involved, if someone ever wanted to make an issue of it, I expect the alien wouldn't have the proverbial leg to stand on as the law includes the Minister in the process and he is never involved in it.

Therefore, I have concluded that a 30 year lease appears to be the only safe way to go. Others may do different things, and this is only my take on it.

[madcatlady]

Okay, that hasn't really cleared things up for me!!! As sbk pointed out, as a woman married to a Thai national, my rights here are different to those of a married farang man. I am legally supported by him, at least in theory, so in the event of his death I would kind of expect Immigration to revoke my visa and ask me to prove that I can support myself.

As for the property rights, I have a 30-year lease on the land, and we will shortly be arranging for a will to be drawn up that names me as beneficiary (in the case of childlessness) at the time of his death. I believe that having a child changes the whole situation again as the child would inherit the entire estate. We are intending to have a child soon but I'm worried about the interim period.

Does anyone know what the law is for farang women? Do you think that I would fare better by asking a moderator to move this topic to the visa forum?

Thanks for all of your help so far...

MCL

[sbk]

Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Also, if you are doing the one year extensions, you will be eligible for applying for citizenship (Thailand allows dual, so it depends on your home country). PM me if you'd like the document listing requirements (in Thai).

I can move it if you like, but don't believe you will get anything more definitive than what I have already stated, regardless of some naysayers who think its rubbish

[madcatlady]

Thanks sbk, I also think it's better off on this forum as I wanted the women's point of view on this rather than guys telling me how it is for them!

I'm only on my second one-year visa so I have a couple of years to go before I can go for citizenship, right? Anyway, I'll be back on this site long before then to check up on the requirements so thanks for the offer of help.

The ladies forum is so much nicer/kinder/gentler than the men's, don't you think?

MCL

[seville]

Insightful thread. The U.S. doesn't allow for dual citizenship, does it Sbk?

[sbk]

Yes, it does.

[seville]

That's very good news I think for the future.

Yes, it does.

[tamsin]

Thanks sbk, I also think it's better off on this forum as I wanted the women's point of view on this rather than guys telling me how it is for them!

I'm only on my second one-year visa so I have a couple of years to go before I can go for citizenship, right? Anyway, I'll be back on this site long before then to check up on the requirements so thanks for the offer of help.

The ladies forum is so much nicer/kinder/gentler than the men's, don't you think?

MCL

what the hel_l is the matter with you - 'women's point of view' - you're about to marry a local and unless you have a sprog before (the hopefully unlikely event) he snuffs it, you'll likely be up s creek without a paddle - and all it takes is a bloody click on the 't.h.a.i v.i.s.a' forum. christ.

ps: TEN years before you can even start to think about applying for citizenship on the basis of marriage to a thai man

[Boo]

tamsin we have paperwork from thai gov. that specifies 3 years to apply for citiIzenship when married to a thai man so please provide proof to your claims of 10.

Also try to be less agressive in your posts, there is no call for the attitude you have displayed above.

[hellohello]

3 years - not too bad. But it seems lots of farang ladies married to Thais- live on islands or out in the sticks. Which in my experience means small amphers have no clue how to start this. I believe sbk has experienced this allot. Anyone know of any farang women who’ve successfully attained citizenship? HH

oh, and MCL did you make a will at the amphur?

[Boo]

HH the lovely samran went to the big boss police in BKK as this is where it needs to be done from. I have info on pm if you want it?

[fletchsmile]

As for the property rights, I have a 30-year lease on the land, and we will shortly be arranging for a will to be drawn up that names me as beneficiary (in the case of childlessness) at the time of his death. I believe that having a child changes the whole situation again as the child would inherit the entire estate.

MCL

Sorry just realised you "wanted the women's point of view on this rather than guys telling me how it is for them!" so have deleted most of my initial post/advice.

For info tho' there are some mistakes in what you believe about inheritance, which apply to "spouses", i.e. in which applies to both husband and wife. Citizenship yes I know some ladies who have done...

Edited July 29, 2007 by fletchthai68

[samran]

definitely go down the citizenship route. I'll be looking into starting the process for my wife at some point. Our third anniversiary is a week away! She needs to brush up on her Thai though!

Look up the experiences of one of our members dbrenn (male) who has gone through the process and chatette (female) who is currently going through the process.

[madcatlady]

Thanks sbk, I also think it's better off on this forum as I wanted the women's point of view on this rather than guys telling me how it is for them!

I'm only on my second one-year visa so I have a couple of years to go before I can go for citizenship, right? Anyway, I'll be back on this site long before then to check up on the requirements so thanks for the offer of help.

The ladies forum is so much nicer/kinder/gentler than the men's, don't you think?

MCL

what the hel_l is the matter with you - 'women's point of view' - you're about to marry a local and unless you have a sprog before (the hopefully unlikely event) he snuffs it, you'll likely be up s creek without a paddle - and all it takes is a bloody click on the 't.h.a.i v.i.s.a' forum. christ.

ps: TEN years before you can even start to think about applying for citizenship on the basis of marriage to a thai man

I've been off-line for a few days and just had a chance to check back in here. Well thanks for your 'insightful' or should that be 'inciteful' comments. Not quite sure what's eating you but hope you feel better soon.

MCL

[madcatlady]

definitely go down the citizenship route. I'll be looking into starting the process for my wife at some point. Our third anniversiary is a week away! She needs to brush up on her Thai though!

Look up the experiences of one of our members dbrenn (male) who has gone through the process and chatette (female) who is currently going through the process.

Thanks for this info - v. helpful. My spoken Thai's not bad actually but I've got a couple of years to get really good. Let's hope that my husband manages to stay alive that long!!!

MCL