The Lakes - Whats A Good Price?

[pkrv]

well done Irene at 10m its a good buy.

...now i am still waiting for somebody to answer my question as to where is the next Lakes?....with so much development underway in Bangkok there must be some good buys out there - anyone want to offer some suggestions ???

OK I will bite - I will make a forward prediction - The next Lakes will be the abandoned construction just next door, providing of course the construction company (still probably in deep freeze) gets its act together. The structure is all there and the concrete reinforcing seems to have been added.

Same height, same size (ish) as The Lakes.

"That abandoned construction just next door" to the Lakes is no longer abandoned. It has become an office building called "Column" and reasonably occupied by many companies led by MFC Assets Management Co. The top portion of the building with the entrance at the back is a serviced- apartment section (not yet opened). At the side of this building is an incomplete car-park building with Foodland on the ground floor. The car parks are well used by office workers.

Good grief you leave for just a few years and everything changes what is the world comming to. Next their may be an airport express and Bangkok may advance, I just don't know anymore

[Hampstead]

The Lakes

You mean the small man made water landmark nestled between a convention centre and a tobacco factory, umm great view!!!

and the singapore property market has doubled in prices over the last year, and not just in a few select projects as is the case here in bkk, but in most areas of singapore, even the second hand condo market

singapore is by far the most attractive investment for expats to invest in property if you compare bangkok to singapore, maybe the ones who choose to buy in bangkok are the poorer relations to those who buy in singapore

i will always choose singapore over bkk for property investments

The ONE aspect of the bkk property market which is attractive are the incredibly low rental prices of the units if compared to the actual value of the unit,

Typically i rent in the region of 40-80 k a month here in bkk, my current rent is 51k, which is around 3-4% of their values, compare this to other capital cities of asia and the ist world where you will be paying 10% of the units value for one year's rent

.......i get a better rental return on the condominium i own in Bangkok than the two i have in London....interested to learn where you can get 10% rental return???

Very very few properties in bkk are receiving 10% returns a year on their actual sale value, its just pure hyperbole by a few real estate agents on this forum pushing the great positive news spin on all property in bkk, 3-4% is more on the mark

Those that are lucky enough to receive this magical figure of 10% are mostly doing it through their strong contacts at various agencies. Right now in bkk there is over supply in the rental market. Not only do you see individuals owners compteting with eachother for tennants, they also find themselves competing with serviced appartments and also thai owners of buildings who only rent units out. For the last 2 years I have seen prices from friends rental agreements ranging in prices from 40k to the most expensive of 220k in nichahda park frozen due to the competitive nature of the bkk property rental market

As for the lakes, well its days were 2004-5 where 65k became 90-100k a sqm, but from 2005 onwards it has slowed considerably its rise in prices

so has many projects built during 2003-2005

the optimum year in bkk property was 2005, where demand was so great for the supply, it pushed prices in the same buildings by sometimes 50% in one year.

Today price rises in the same building are slowing, and with the supply glut coming onto the market then the year 2005 will be very hard to beat

But i guess you were just a little too positive in your spin to really hide the industry you are in my friend, good luck

....err exactly what spin are you talking about??? My original post was complaining i could not buy a unit in the Lakes for what i felt was a reasonable price and i still cannot - you can try yourself if you think you can do better, its not spin its a fact. Just for the record i do not work in the residential property market but yes in commercial property.

I think you misread my mail - i agree a 3-5% yield is typical for a reasonable building in Bangkok(i get about 6% on my property here which i bouight 4 years ago), and this is better than the return i get on my properties in London(3-4%) i was asking where you can get a 10% return - you seem to think you can in most Capital cities in Asia which i don't think is the case - happy to be proved wrong if you can suggest where?

Did not misread your reply, just tooooo dam_n obvious the industry that you are in!!! So thats now 4 of you guys and girls scouring this forum, um good to know

[Hampstead]

well done Irene at 10m its a good buy.

...now i am still waiting for somebody to answer my question as to where is the next Lakes?....with so much development underway in Bangkok there must be some good buys out there - anyone want to offer some suggestions ???

OK I will bite - I will make a forward prediction - The next Lakes will be the abandoned construction just next door, providing of course the construction company (still probably in deep freeze) gets its act together. The structure is all there and the concrete reinforcing seems to have been added.

Same height, same size (ish) as The Lakes.

"That abandoned construction just next door" to the Lakes is no longer abandoned. It has become an office building called "Column" and reasonably occupied by many companies led by MFC Assets Management Co. The top portion of the building with the entrance at the back is a serviced- apartment section (not yet opened). At the side of this building is an incomplete car-park building with Foodland on the ground floor. The car parks are well used by office workers.

Good grief you leave for just a few years and everything changes what is the world comming to. Next their may be an airport express and Bangkok may advance, I just don't know anymore

I still see shanty towns in bkk, in fact there is a very poor neighbourhood just down from soi ruam rudee or how about the sess pitt of petburi opposite the other side of central chidlom.

You really feel that a few mass transport developments will paper over the constant cracks in thai society, may help for a select few but in no way will thailand become a 1st world country in our lifetimes, and isnt that the dream of these property developments, that one day soon if you buy NOW that bangkok will fulfill this dream of improving its status to that of the ist world.

Singapore and Hong Kong are already there in the ist world, they achieved their goals, and continue to strive for a better status

Is that really the case for bkk? Will their ever be a stable political climate to achieve a continued march to enhance bkk's status as 3rd world into 1st world?

So this is the reason why rent has always been the far better choice than to buy in bkk, Its cheap and the supply oustrips the demand by a large portion, so the rental prices will always be amazingly cheap

I could be proven wrong in the next 100 years, and think ooh why did i buy that pad in hk or singapore and not in bkk, but you know i dont think that will happen

[Irene]

I still see shanty towns in bkk, in fact there is a very poor neighbourhood just down from soi ruam rudee or how about the sess pitt of petburi opposite the other side of central chidlom.

You really feel that a few mass transport developments will paper over the constant cracks in thai society, may help for a select few but in no way will thailand become a 1st world country in our lifetimes, and isnt that the dream of these property developments, that one day soon if you buy NOW that bangkok will fulfill this dream of improving its status to that of the ist world.

Singapore and Hong Kong are already there in the ist world, they achieved their goals, and continue to strive for a better status

Is that really the case for bkk? Will their ever be a stable political climate to achieve a continued march to enhance bkk's status as 3rd world into 1st world?

So this is the reason why rent has always been the far better choice than to buy in bkk, Its cheap and the supply oustrips the demand by a large portion, so the rental prices will always be amazingly cheap

I could be proven wrong in the next 100 years, and think ooh why did i buy that pad in hk or singapore and not in bkk, but you know i dont think that will happen

This forum was headlined as "The Lakes-Whats A Good Price?" and the question was posed by chayatom on November 12 as follow:

"I am looking at buying a unit in the The Lakes Condominium as from what i have seen it offers the best combination of location,layout,facilities,management,etc.

I have seen two 109m2 +/_ units and the asking price is c15m or roughly 135,000 m2 - they ae nice lake view apartments but the price seems over the top to me - i thought the going rate should be closer to 115k per m2.

Has anyone actually bought a unit here recently and if so would you mind telling how much you paid for it?"

Your response to the question is simply not to buy any property in Thailand because of the existence of the poors and Thailand's prospect of becoming a first world member is dim. Hong Kong and Singapore have a better prospect. I respect your view but does that respond to the member's question? I leave that to other readers to judge. This reminds me of Sir Winston Churchill responding to a leftist member of parliament that a fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

[Hampstead]

well done Irene at 10m its a good buy.

...now i am still waiting for somebody to answer my question as to where is the next Lakes?....with so much development underway in Bangkok there must be some good buys out there - anyone want to offer some suggestions ???

OK I will bite - I will make a forward prediction - The next Lakes will be the abandoned construction just next door, providing of course the construction company (still probably in deep freeze) gets its act together. The structure is all there and the concrete reinforcing seems to have been added.

Same height, same size (ish) as The Lakes.

"That abandoned construction just next door" to the Lakes is no longer abandoned. It has become an office building called "Column" and reasonably occupied by many companies led by MFC Assets Management Co. The top portion of the building with the entrance at the back is a serviced- apartment section (not yet opened). At the side of this building is an incomplete car-park building with Foodland on the ground floor. The car parks are well used by office workers.

what do you mean the car parks are well used by office workers and the office building is reasonably occupied, isnt this real estate agency spin jargon for a rather unsuccessful office building

and just where did you get this agency sales pitch lines on the office building next to the lakes?

[Irene]

well done Irene at 10m its a good buy.

...now i am still waiting for somebody to answer my question as to where is the next Lakes?....with so much development underway in Bangkok there must be some good buys out there - anyone want to offer some suggestions ???

OK I will bite - I will make a forward prediction - The next Lakes will be the abandoned construction just next door, providing of course the construction company (still probably in deep freeze) gets its act together. The structure is all there and the concrete reinforcing seems to have been added.

Same height, same size (ish) as The Lakes.

"That abandoned construction just next door" to the Lakes is no longer abandoned. It has become an office building called "Column" and reasonably occupied by many companies led by MFC Assets Management Co. The top portion of the building with the entrance at the back is a serviced- apartment section (not yet opened). At the side of this building is an incomplete car-park building with Foodland on the ground floor. The car parks are well used by office workers.

what do you mean the car parks are well used by office workers and the office building is reasonably occupied, isnt this real estate agency spin jargon for a rather unsuccessful office building

and just where did you get this agency sales pitch lines on the office building next to the lakes?

Hampstead,

You simply will not accept my statement that I am not in an estate agency business or a property development. You even implicitly called me a liar when I mentioned that my condo of two decades now earning a double digit return of rental income of 50,000-60,000 baht.

I am truly an investor in stocks and property for rental. My family went into the condo business two decades ago as a hobby and still remains so. My main business is far more entrenched. I came into this forum because of seeing others helping those unfortunates (including myself at one time) with wholehearted efforts instead of being abusive to others. Hence, I felt then that I had to repay this forum.

I don't have any interest in that office building called Column. I reside in the place nearby this soi and pass through the buildings everyday. Hence I see all the activities everyday. You may be right that the buidling may be unsuccessful since I have never gone into the office building to see but there are a lot of nameplates that gave me the impression that the building being reasonably occupied. I am also blocked by long queue of cars turning into that ramshackle car park building every morning.

I have been brought up not to be abusive to others especially to a person with the name, Hampstead, since I used to live in Hampstead, London. I think so far I have been successful in not doing so.

[Hampstead]

no i dont believe you about your 26 year old condo being worth 10 mill, maybe in the process of being knocked down, yes

but thanks for the positve spin on the column building, i am sure your agency friends will be pleased

[Hampstead]

well done Irene at 10m its a good buy.

...now i am still waiting for somebody to answer my question as to where is the next Lakes?....with so much development underway in Bangkok there must be some good buys out there - anyone want to offer some suggestions ???

OK I will bite - I will make a forward prediction - The next Lakes will be the abandoned construction just next door, providing of course the construction company (still probably in deep freeze) gets its act together. The structure is all there and the concrete reinforcing seems to have been added.

Same height, same size (ish) as The Lakes.

"That abandoned construction just next door" to the Lakes is no longer abandoned. It has become an office building called "Column" and reasonably occupied by many companies led by MFC Assets Management Co. The top portion of the building with the entrance at the back is a serviced- apartment section (not yet opened). At the side of this building is an incomplete car-park building with Foodland on the ground floor. The car parks are well used by office workers.

what do you mean the car parks are well used by office workers and the office building is reasonably occupied, isnt this real estate agency spin jargon for a rather unsuccessful office building

and just where did you get this agency sales pitch lines on the office building next to the lakes?

Hampstead,

You simply will not accept my statement that I am not in an estate agency business or a property development. You even implicitly called me a liar when I mentioned that my condo of two decades now earning a double digit return of rental income of 50,000-60,000 baht.

I am truly an investor in stocks and property for rental. My family went into the condo business two decades ago as a hobby and still remains so. My main business is far more entrenched. I came into this forum because of seeing others helping those unfortunates (including myself at one time) with wholehearted efforts instead of being abusive to others. Hence, I felt then that I had to repay this forum.

I don't have any interest in that office building called Column. I reside in the place nearby this soi and pass through the buildings everyday. Hence I see all the activities everyday. You may be right that the buidling may be unsuccessful since I have never gone into the office building to see but there are a lot of nameplates that gave me the impression that the building being reasonably occupied. I am also blocked by long queue of cars turning into that ramshackle car park building every morning.

I have been brought up not to be abusive to others especially to a person with the name, Hampstead, since I used to live in Hampstead, London. I think so far I have been successful in not doing so.

shall we get back to topic irene

i am also an investor on the set, i invest in emerging markets as that money i can aford to lose, whereas the property investments are kept firmly in the first world, as i cannot aford to lose those investments

For those investors that bought in 2004 and the primary year of bkk property rises of 2005, then the profit margin on the lakes has made a fantastic return

but the rise has slowed from 2005 to now

as in 2005 it was 90-100000 psqm and now it is roughly 115000, or if the op has his way then all available condos are 135000,

but even at 115000 that is a 15% rise in 2 and half years, hardly sky rocketing property price rises

the bkk property market has been led by speculation at its core, it may change over the next few decades, but that all depends on future thai policy and direction on the economy

As for paying these sums for condos in bkk, well thats just an investment choice, which i feel at anything over 90000 baht psqm is overpriced for an economy which is firmly entranched in the third world

[Irene]

no i dont believe you about your 26 year old condo being worth 10 mill, maybe in the process of being knocked down, yes

but thanks for the positve spin on the column building, i am sure your agency friends will be pleased

For crying out loud, I do not have friends in the agency business. They are regarded by me as the necessary instruments to make my life easier. I don't have to please them and on the contrary they have to please us because we pay one month agency fee without fail. We know how the market is when we are or are not chased by them.

As for the unit at the 26-year old building, I was offered for quick cash at 10 million. The unit was fully furnished and now with a tenant at 60,000/month. It has 4 bedrooms and one maid room with an area of 250 sqm. Under the modern condo, with that area of 250, some even call the unit as a penthouse. Baht 40,000 per sqm is reasonable. It is called Tai Ping Towers on Ekamai Road (a terrible road) but nearer to Petchburi Road section and walking distance to the coming Airport Link station. I decided not to sell because of this coming advantage.

I bother to explain to you not having a desire to boast or to care of what you call me a liar but because I want others to realise that if one gives thought to one's purchase, in the long run it can make a lot of differences on rental income and capital gain. This unit I originally purchased at the cost of less than 4 mil. I am not fastidious about the price being knocked out because I believe in the words of Bob Hope that God does not make more land for us especially in an ideal area.

[Irene]

shall we get back to topic irene

i am also an investor on the set, i invest in emerging markets as that money i can aford to lose, whereas the property investments are kept firmly in the first world, as i cannot aford to lose those investments

For those investors that bought in 2004 and the primary year of bkk property rises of 2005, then the profit margin on the lakes has made a fantastic return

but the rise has slowed from 2005 to now

as in 2005 it was 90-100000 psqm and now it is roughly 115000, or if the op has his way then all available condos are 135000,

but even at 115000 that is a 15% rise in 2 and half years, hardly sky rocketing property price rises

the bkk property market has been led by speculation at its core, it may change over the next few decades, but that all depends on future thai policy and direction on the economy

As for paying these sums for condos in bkk, well thats just an investment choice, which i feel at anything over 90000 baht psqm is overpriced for an economy which is firmly entranched in the third world

Hampstead,

This is interesting. You have a good point on the benchmark of 90,000 baht psqm. 100,000 to 130,000 is definitely over-priced and partly drummed up by speculators. However, I believe those near to the rail stations have a better chance of recovery from the overpriced portion if it is definitely on a bearable walking distance by Bangkok standard to the station. I bought one a few months ago almost next door to the station for 140,000 and now rented out at 85,000/month, a net return of 5% after deducting taxes and other direct expenses. In my book, a return for property of not less than 5% is viewed as acceptable if the chance of capital gain is there. Living in London and New York before, I know very well the value of a rail station. In those adjacent areas, there is no land left to build anything. Tokyo is even a better example.

I used to have a flat in Bayswater, my return then was only 3 percent but I bought it because of the proximity to many underground stations. I made a profit of 30% after three years when I got fed up with one estate agency who kept on pestering me on all sorts of small little things like paying the BBC licences. After the selling, the price shot up by more than one fold. That taught me not to be annoyed with little things.