Baby In Parental Bed

[t.s]

my child slept in our room for approximately 4-5 months.

she always slept in a crib, though if tetchy she would move into the bed.

at 6 months she moved into her own bedroom which had both crib and kingsize bed. mother slept in the bed in her room on and off as she felt necessary.

now at 1 year our child sleeps in her own room from about 7 pm to 7 am.

we have a baby monitor, but rarely even open the door once she has been put to sleep.

if for some reason she must sleep with us she is restless and seems to prefer her own bed.

neither i nor her (thai) mother would have had it another way way. do it NOW. you will be much happier.

Edited December 4, 2007 by t.s

[torrenova]

I don't think anything is wrong with a baby sleeping with its parents and as I have previously posted, our daughter does sleep with us sometimes in the morning. However, I see something deepy wrong and disturbing about having a child sleep with its parents when older than a baby and this sleeping with the parents until the teenage years is just wierd and I think psychologically worrying.

[bina]

i dont see that thai kids arent independent. the opposite. i see most thai folks i know able to do stuff w/o relying on others: the DIY attitude. my husband goes berserk that my kids wont cook (mom , i'm hungry.... i need my school t shirts ready for tomorrow... ) or do their own laundry. i hear the refrain: in my village boys/girls help cook/clean/do laundry before they go to school/come back from school... they help in the house blablabla. i know this to be true as i both witnessed this, and have heard it from too many guys to think it isnt true. so perhaps the 'less independant' thai kid is from the higher economic groups that are just over spoiled and westernized...

my kids slept in the bed with my (now ex) husband and i until each was about 6 mo's old. each was then moved to a crib/bed in their own room. (our houses are very small, no need for monitor to hear baby, we could hear every cough and sneeze) , but by a year old, the child would ask to go to 'his/her ' bed...often one of us would sleep in the kid's room on a mattress and/or need us just for nite/nite.

at first all three slept in same small room , later, oldest asked for separate sleeping area so got a loft bed in the salon (as a teenager this was difficult for my daughter but necessity is the mother of making do. eventually the son wanted out of little girl's room, so got a dinky small 'cell' of his own. but in beginning, they all sept in separate beds but same room (bunkbed/pull out bed setup). to most americans that i know, sleeping in same room as other siblings seemes weird!!

i have not seen studies that show that sleeping with parents creates less independent babies. i know of several 'western' families here that sleep with all their kids(how did they manage to have 7?! while the other kids sleep with them?)... every family has its own way of handling the 'doing it' issue; but the kids are all great, well behaved, independent, healthy interests sex (dont date father or mother images), and functioning in society. as the kids hit puberty they moved to their own beds on their own, never were thrown out. these same families breast fed for a long time also. my SIL is finnish and she breast fed each for about 2-3 yrs, and the kids slept with her and dad but again, by 12/13 (peer pressure from other kids?) they chose to move into small bedrooms (girls together, boy in small 'cell' room) . same as a swiss friend of mine (include the kids and the cats).

i think its along the line of 'clingy child' syndrome. my youngest, being the 'last one' was always more childish, more clingy, more 'spoiled' (as her siblings and my thai husband point out), to relieve the clinginess, i just required her to be with me as much as possible, until it wore off and she pushed for more 'do it myself, go by myself' on her own.

perhaps the idea of separate rooms etc came about as people became richer and could afford many bedroomed houses. many people i know from russia also had their kids in the same room, since there was no other room for sleeping. beduins sleep as family units (women with women/grandmothers and small boys) all together and i dont see signs of lack of independence among the kids (who already work doing chores like taking herds out to graze on their own in the desert at a very young age).

where there are problems is the scenario of divorced woman sleeping with child in same bed as substitute for someone else in the bed (for affection, not talking about incest here). this does create interdependence that isnt healthy. i speak from small experience as i allowed my 8 yr old to return to my bed after my divorce (clingy stage again) and she became very jeoulous when i started dating again. it was a short lived period, she prefers her own bedroom (even in my house over father's house down the road) but it was comforting actually having her in my large bed. never thought i was the type either. i think it is something instinctual when a mother sleeps with her offspring, above and beyond modern psychology. even my goats stil sleep daughters and mothers, curled up close to each other.!! (males dont).

so just get a bigger mattress and move it to the floor. sleeping on mattress on the floor is the key here, u can move the sleeping child to a mattress next to u but separate, do the dirty, and it all works out.

bina

wanted to point out that oldest daughter says that living in small house and sleeping with more then one person in the room helped her in the 'boot camp' in army as they lived in crowded tents, and those kids that came from one kid to a room houses had a very hard time adjusting to crowded conditions, sleeping among other people (snoring, moving around, just general awareness of other bodies around u) maintaining your own 'space'. i'm sure sailors and ex army understand what she is talking about.

Edited December 6, 2007 by bina

[sbk]

My inlaws must be the odd Thai people then. My husband did not sleep with his parents growing up, neither did his brothers or sister. Neither of my brothers-in-law's kids (two different BIL) have or had their young children sleep with them.

The 4 year old daughter of our staff sleeps with her parents for now. Her mother has bought her own separate bed and is moving her into sleeping in her own bed.

I think, personally, its up to you. I didn't sleep with my parents growing up and I turned out just fine. I think that if you are uncomfortable with the idea, then you shouldn't allow it. Listening to some of these stories of the kid making the decision, makes me wonder who is in charge in some of these households? The kid or the parent?

[seonai]

I once arrived at a house of Thai teachers in Bkk with the view to staying the night before travelling to Korat together early morning. When it came to bed time I asked where I was sleeping and was directed to a room upstairs. As I entered I noticed that it was a huge mat on the floor with Granny, auntie, wife, baby and sister...I snuck in at the wall part... husband got in at the other end later!!! Hardly slept a wink (those were my early days in Thailand). Many years later I slept in a giant bed in Cambodia with children and adults that I had only just met when I was invited to stay over!!! Funny how ones values change - but on topic proper... I already said that my half Thai son slept with me until he was 11 but personally I feel that was too long - I craved my own space by then

[prinzregent]

I am german, so please not look at my little english :

1. shure, why should the baby not sleep in the same bed.

2. Yes, my baby is still in the bed. It is now three years old.

3. SEX ? No problem, when the baby is sleeping ... At the beginning my wife did not like but now no more problem.

4. U not like the baby in the bed ??? Buy another bed, put it beside your bed. For example:( Papa, Mama )(baby)

or: i did buy two soft things ( for sport on the floor ) and now the baby is there.

In the moment the baby MUST sleep inside our bed, when the baby sleeps, I put the baby down in the little baby bed.

... as we did have the baby most time in the bed now second baby is on the way.

Edited December 7, 2007 by prinzregent

[kat]

i think its along the line of 'clingy child' syndrome. my youngest, being the 'last one' was always more childish, more clingy, more 'spoiled' (as her siblings and my thai husband point out), to relieve the clinginess, i just required her to be with me as much as possible, until it wore off and she pushed for more 'do it myself, go by myself' on her own.

Yeah, there was a lot of disruption going on in my household at the time, and I think I just wanted that reassurance from my mom. I'm so glad that she was able to give me what I needed without the help of pop psychology. But, she was definitely happy when I moved to my own bed. Because she gave me what I needed as a child, probably better enabled me to become a super independent adult.

I liked the image of the mama goat and the daughter goat curled up in sleep - very cute, Bina. Thanks.

[bina]

they are cute; i once fell asleep with the goats, i curled up against one, its so relaxing and u can feel them breathe and hear them also, and they make snuffily noises and some snore, or they chew their cud, i find that very soothing. plus its warm and it was cold that nite (was taking care of sick animal late night, before i remarried... )

seonai,

when i came the first time to thailand, i slept in the same bed separated with a bolster pillow with an older woman, and her kids slept on a heavy blanket on the floor with grandma.

the second time, i slept in same room as grandma separated by one of those bolster pillow, and grandson slept on other side of grandma...

also spent one night together with the rice plow parked in the salon, and grandma on the next mattress.

[torrenova]

Isn't the Thai tradition of sleeping together one based upon economic necessity ? Do affluent Thais also sleep in the same room / bed. I suspect not.

[Boo]

Same as the UK several decades ago, my mum slept in the same bed as her sister & cousin till she got married & moved out at 21, it was all down to economics, poor & no space so sleep 3 or 4 to a double bed, 2 or more beds per room. My mum has always craved her own space & even now in her 60's she sleeps in her own room & my step dad sleep in his own room We never slept in the same room as her & dad growing up & I too am super inderpendent & have travelled the world alone in my early 20's & till I met my husband never lived with anyone after moving out at 17 so don't think it has much relation to how independant you become as my sister is a real home body & has never lived more than a couple of streets from my mum, no travel etc & we had the same upbringing.

My husband never slept with his parents beyond toddlerhood & neither did his brother or sister & now their kids live with grandma & they sleep in their own beds too. They sleep in the same room but on opposite sides of the room, so does grandmums sister, who lives with them too but this is more down to the design of their house, big social room downstairs & big room upsteairs in wooden house, my husband told me though that once he reached teenage he built his own partition wall to give himself some privacy (presumably to do what teenage boys do alone in bed!!!)

My own personal opinion is that it helps everyone get better quality sleep to be in their own beds in their own rooms, there are other reasons why I didn't want my son sleeping with us, one of the main ones being that I am a diabetic who also suffers from sleep trauma (night terrors), so the risk of unintentional suffocation or possibly hurting my son whilst asleep was a real risk. It is also advised not to sleep in the bed with a baby if you smoke or drink (i do neither but my husband smokes & has 1 or 2 beers after work) so there are real health issues when considering having a baby in bed with you. Another one is I beleive that sleep is a habit & if a baby is woken by the noises/snoring/movement of other poeple in the bed they will get in the habit of waking during the night so want him to know what 12hrs of solid, uninteruppted sleeps feels like (as he has every night) Again, these are my own personal reasons & opinions & really so think that YOU have to do what you think is best.

[samran]

Isn't the Thai tradition of sleeping together one based upon economic necessity ? Do affluent Thais also sleep in the same room / bed. I suspect not.

my cousin and his wife (an ML) had their daughters sleep in the same room as them until they were about 7 or 8 years old, maybe older. The words 'Economic necessity' aren't words I think you'd find in their vocabulary, so I think it is more of a Thai thing to do (though I take Boo's point that it isn't done universially here).

We sleep with our daughter, though neither of us come from a culture where that is particularly the norm. Sometimes I wonder whether we should move our little one (now 20 months) to her own room, but for us, it works, so we going to continue with that so long that it does. The best thing about it is when at 7.30 in the morning she crawls over and pats me on the head, saying 'daddy, daddy' to wake me up. Can't go past that for a great start to (every) day!!!

[torrenova]

The best thing about it is when at 7.30 in the morning she crawls over and pats me on the head, saying 'daddy, daddy' to wake me up. Can't go past that for a great start to (every) day!!!

Even though ours is only 5 months she will reach our and touch us on the face or crawl over to one or other (usually me - wife is jealous !) when she is in the bed in the mornings.

When I said economic necessity, I meant it from a point of view that if you had 4 kids and 2 bedrooms then they would have to share but if you had a larger house and had 4 bedrooms then wouldn't the kids have their own room ? I make the argument that the reason this is built into Thai culture is the traditional lack of western type rooms in the house and the lack of resources to build a house with multiple rooms for all the family to have one each.

[bina]

actually, did a quick poll here and found that most of the kids, if sleeping with siblings, only started asking for 'own room' (not a possibility for a large percentage here, as average is 4 kids, with three and a half bedrooms including parents' room) when they hit pre puberty (around 10 yrs old)... same sex siblings didnt push as much for separation (especially the boys, who seem to collect less 'junk' in their rooms)... however, we have the privilege -and headache- of having our 17 yr olds move out to a dormitory type set up which leaves a room open for next in line sibling to grab... in the city, this is NOT done and children remain with parents even after army so siblings still double up in small rooms. only the rich have the private room deal.

keeping a baby in the parents' room then is easier on all concerned as crying doesnt wake up older kids, setting off the chain reaction of wailing or, alternately, teenagers shrieking 'the baby is waking me up..'.

as a child's nurse once pointed out, children do not keep up on the latest published child psychology books, so if u think u are doing ok with what u are doing, then continue. if it bothers u, then find a creative solution.

just a funny story: friends of mine are finnish/british, living here, with five kids mixed girls and boys. in the beginning we had very small houses (55 sq.meters!!). coming over to visit, i once noticed that they had mattresses (no bed frames)spread in the small bedroom , the 'mini' room and salon. during the night, two kids moved in with parents so one parent moved to salon. third child followed that parent so fourth sibling was left alone. she got up, moved to salon leaving one room free. (fifth was on the way, and see, they managed to do it well!). when they moved to larger house with more rooms, two of the siblings decided to stay in same room,second oldest girl got private 'mini room' , one moved out to dormitory, and one got a 'loft' in the younger kids room.

just to give some creative ideas...

[torrenova]

Thanks for that insight.

[answer]

Order of the bed room was: door, single mattress on floor for elder son, father & younger son in a king bed, mother in law in a small bed next to the king bed.

I just couldn't stand it. One son at 12 farted like hel_l. The other son (almost 10) tried not to sleep to make sure father and mother in law didn't have sex. Gross!

[Brigante7]

Ever since he was born our son has slept in our bed. I have tried several times to persuade my (Thai) wife to put him in a cot in our bedroom to no avail. I even dedicated a bedroom in the house for him with murals, toys, kids bed and furniture, etc but that just gets used to play in during the day. My wife thinks it is ridiculous of me to even consider having our son sleep anywhere but in our bed. For any of you who have been through this.......does it last forever? I worry so much about squashing him that i dont sleep very well until they wake up around 7am.......and what about sex? sneaking a quick one every now and then when he's fast asleep hardly seems right....

Please share your experiences..

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish and we have a 4 month old son and from day one I told my wife that our son will not be sleeping in our bed and that was that, she moaned for about 2 days but she accepted it, now our son sleeps in a cot in our room but in 2 months he will be moving in to his own room, that I am not looking forward to, but then again a few days of silence, lol.

[nidge]

At last i bought a cot and moved my little one out of the bed. The only one not to sleep better on the first night was the wife!

Now the baby is really settled and wifey gets more cuddles now there is no one between us

[BillyDeno]

Ever since he was born our son has slept in our bed. I have tried several times to persuade my (Thai) wife to put him in a cot in our bedroom to no avail. I even dedicated a bedroom in the house for him with murals, toys, kids bed and furniture, etc but that just gets used to play in during the day. My wife thinks it is ridiculous of me to even consider having our son sleep anywhere but in our bed. For any of you who have been through this.......does it last forever? I worry so much about squashing him that i dont sleep very well until they wake up around 7am.......and what about sex? sneaking a quick one every now and then when he's fast asleep hardly seems right....

Please share your experiences..

If your lucky kid will be 10yrs old, don't have any more mate go and get the snip. Or have you got baby monitors explain 2 your wife that it would be better to put kid in other room and she can hear kid if he wakes up through the nite. Good luck anyway.

[nickbk]

I have a 11 month half thai girl and of course the question of "where will the baby sleep" came quite early during my wife's pregnancy. I wasn't aware of that "familly bed" thing (I thought it was just a question of space) and my wife wasn't aware it could be different.

Negociating with my wife was not the most difficult part in fact. We just went to look at cots first and my wife found one so cute that she agreed our daughter could sleep in it. And then, when my daughter was 4months old, we "tried" to put her in her own bedroom and she seemed to like it very much so my wife couldn't say anything.

The most difficult part proved to be our acquaintances (friends, neighbours, family) who treated her like a monster for having let me move our daughter out of the room and everyday she heard questions like : "are you sure your husband loves your daughter?"

Personnaly, I didn't face that too much since I spent most days working and people did not openly blame me but I understand my wife position has not been easy: she is not working and everytime she went out of the house, it was only for hearing blames.

To my opinion, I was right to move my daughter out early. She proved to like it (she started to sleep all night long the day I put her in her own bedroom) and we certainly enjoyed the privacy. However it seems that in Thailand this culture is very strong and even among families having the space.

Edited January 26, 2008 by nickbk

[answer]

The most difficult part proved to be our acquaintances (friends, neighbours, family) who treated her like a monster for having let me move our daughter out of the room and everyday she heard questions like : "are you sure your husband loves your daughter?"

Personnaly, I didn't face that too much since I spent most days working and people did not openly blame me but I understand my wife position has not been easy: she is not working and everytime she went out of the house, it was only for hearing blames.

I understand how your wife feels. Some people just love it too much to comment about others and make them feel uncomfortable. Don't they know that we do what suits us, not to please the whole group of friends and neighbors? I hate that kind of gossip things. I don't like to talk too much to Thai people for that reason. Other than "hi how are you. have you just come back from the market?", I try to avoid deep conversation when they start to ask how much I earn and how many times we have it in one week I'm joking but really, some Thai people like to ask too much.