stroll Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 I saw the Video of the 1st AmericanIt's NOT a quick death. The man is conscious a good amount of the time. They just start sawing at his neck w/ a knife blade. Can you imagine how long that would take? He's screaming NO and grunting and moaning. Eventually, his screaming and moaning turn into gurgles. Blood is just pouring all over the place. It's NOT a pretty picture. But nuking the entire population of a country into oblivion as retaliation would be? Why don't you apply the same judgement to the words that come out of your mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valentinoxxx Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 wolf5370You write as if the are some rules to be followed. Though you and I may think so, who is following these rules? The USA? The 'terrorists'? The USA didn't follow the rules, but you expect their much smaller opponents to follow your arbitrary rules. Let's stop this nonsense. Don't try to paint me as an extremist. Do not try to propagandise by using aid workers in your argument. The long and short of it is there is a lot of hatred for the USA in Iraq, suppressed only by the military forces of the USA. Killing people to force a 'democracy' on them? Anyway, I have made my feelings clear on this matter. If you choose to misinterpret them, go ahead. Knock yourself out. I think the Invasion was WRONG.. I think the terrorists who do these horrendous crimes are WRONG.. Any effort at justification and or blame seems a bit silly to me.. The 'them and us' attitude does not negate whats RIGHT and WRONG, something i think we all know the differance between, even governments and terrorists. Those are the rules.. Santini What exactly is the point you are trying to make here? We all know killing is not desirable. We also know that the is 'cause and effect', action and reaction'. The US administration is responsible. Just like Israel, they seem to think that more killing and repression is the way to go, whilst EVERYONE else can see it DOESN'T work. Sometimes blame has to be accepted before progress can be made. Arrogant nations are loathe to admit that may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santini Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 The US administration is responsible.Just like Israel, they seem to think that more killing and repression is the way to go, whilst EVERYONE else can see it DOESN'T work. I agree with much of your argument Valentino What i dont agree with is the above quote I believe the Individual who will no doubt be-head these 2 is responsible. He (or she) certainly thinks more killing is the way to go.. I think your hate towards all things Bush and Israel is clouding your thoughts on this matter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Stroll you are right, sorry I am just angry. Damm Angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valentinoxxx Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Hate is too strong a word. If I think someone is wrong, misguided, stupid etc it doesn't translate to hate. I think Bush is a clown personified. I have not condoned any of this murderous behaviour. If it were the other way around, I would be on record criticising the Iraqis responsible. The fact is, that American machine regularly sacrifices Iraqi(and other) civilian lives for their own ends. Should I shed extra tears when British or American life is similarly sacrificed? I would be crying all of the time. The truth is that I hate all of it. So, if it were the case, would it be wrong of me to hate the people who were responsible for this carnage? Anyway, this is degenerating into semantics. We are not so far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spee Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Our friend Kurt at BangkokAtoZ.com have an article about the abducted foreigners: Great link George! Common sense is so refreshing. Unfortunately the deaths of these men make the refreshment short-lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francois Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 hi' I saw the Video of the 1st AmericanIt's NOT a quick death. The man is conscious a good amount of the time. They just start sawing at his neck w/ a knife blade. Can you imagine how long that would take? He's screaming NO and grunting and moaning. Eventually, his screaming and moaning turn into gurgles. Blood is just pouring all over the place. It's NOT a pretty picture. SICK as I don't think this was on tv ... you must have look at this on internet ... may be seraching for it ... your comments are just plenly disgusting even if what you saw "is not a pretty picture" for you ... THIS IS NOT A PICTURE !! this is the unjust death of an innocent man give yourself a break and realize how much their families are suffering for something which is not human. francois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santini Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Anyway, this is degenerating into semantics. We are not so far apart. I agree, besides a wise old man (my father!) told me you should never argue about 3 things, one of which was Politics... I, for one, think your English is of the highest quality, You put many of us mother tongue English conversationalists to shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuktukmike Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Just heard on BBC that another hostage has been beheaded. They report that it was an American. Makes you wonder what sort of world we now live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santini Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 Hear hear... Im asking myself that question this evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Kao Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 All Beheading videos at www.ogrish.com Dont open if your not prepared, very graphic The American that was just killed kept on talking about his family as they sawed thru him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornado Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 It is absolutely terrible. Bush is to blame for starting this free for oil in the first place. Yes I will keep saying Bush is to blame, because he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartender100 Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 Valentinoxx When i said he is one of us,I meant in a sense of living in Thailand,and sharing are feelings,not a racial or political thing. Only history will tell,if what is happening now is right or wrong. In 1937 Churchill,was seen as a war-monger in the UK,but he saw the dangers of hitler long before anyone else,and he was proved correct.He had to beg Roosevelt to bring America into the war. I don't know which country you are from,but your freedom now,if you are European stems from that. Who's to say the US are right now.Not you or I. The radical Muslims want to regain land and countries lost decades ago,and showed there hand on 9/11,they are merciless and ruthless.Iraq has become a battle ground for that reason It is true that not all Muslim's are terrorists,but these days all terrorists are Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted September 21, 2004 Share Posted September 21, 2004 britmavericHeres the telegraph artical which mentions he lives in thailand,the Bangkokpost had a front page story yesterday about him having a thai wife. http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh.../ixnewstop.html valentinoxx has got a serious attitude problem An attitude problem? Do you say that because I have a DIFFERENT point of view than yours? Sounds like the typical arrogant thought process which has pervaded the inhabitants of certain peoples for some time now. I'm simply not putting someone who made the choice to try to make money in Iraq over the plight of the Iraqis who had NO choice when invaded by the USA and the UK. Anyway, I'm going to bow out now. The first two replies only served to irritate me. My posting in reply is not going to make it any better. Much less the idiotic comments about 'nuking' and 'terrorists'. A moderate soul with moderate views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicinebox Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THEY THOUGHT FOR A MINUTE THAT THE WOMEN WOULD ACTUALLY POSSIBLY BE FREED??? Can we not see through this? By chopping their heads off they were in a win win situation. A suicide bomber takes 4 active servicemen out at a checkpoint.... Not good. Acceptable for a serviceman maybe? But sawing an innocent mans head off only after they have made sure they have the worlds strictest attention....? He/they was/were dead when kidnapped! PROPAGANDA. They expect/want heavy retaliation from the US/UK forces, which will result in more Iraq families losing loved ones, which = more anti American/UK conscripts. If they did free the women, it would prove to the 'extremists, that it works, and would engourage more abductions. Its not about Saddam anymore, its about religion and occupied forces on Their ground... The worm will turn, believe me. Hearts and minds not won, but sprayed on walls by bullets. I won't mention Vietnam, or the fact that history repeats itself. This is not going to have a happy ending. Revenge... is like a rolling stone, which, when a man hath forced up a hill, will return upon him with a greater violence, and break those bones whose sinews gave it motion. Albert Schweitzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valentinoxxx Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Valentinoxx When i said he is one of us,I meant in a sense of living in Thailand,and sharing are feelings,not a racial or political thing. Only history will tell,if what is happening now is right or wrong. In 1937 Churchill,was seen as a war-monger in the UK,but he saw the dangers of hitler long before anyone else,and he was proved correct.He had to beg Roosevelt to bring America into the war. I don't know which country you are from,but your freedom now,if you are European stems from that. Who's to say the US are right now.Not you or I. The radical Muslims want to regain land and countries lost decades ago,and showed there hand on 9/11,they are merciless and ruthless.Iraq has become a battle ground for that reason It is true that not all Muslim's are terrorists,but these days all terrorists are Muslim. What a load of tosh! I'm sure you still bash on about England winning the World Cup in '66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valentinoxxx Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 britmavericHeres the telegraph artical which mentions he lives in thailand,the Bangkokpost had a front page story yesterday about him having a thai wife. http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh.../ixnewstop.html valentinoxx has got a serious attitude problem An attitude problem? Do you say that because I have a DIFFERENT point of view than yours? Sounds like the typical arrogant thought process which has pervaded the inhabitants of certain peoples for some time now. I'm simply not putting someone who made the choice to try to make money in Iraq over the plight of the Iraqis who had NO choice when invaded by the USA and the UK. Anyway, I'm going to bow out now. The first two replies only served to irritate me. My posting in reply is not going to make it any better. Much less the idiotic comments about 'nuking' and 'terrorists'. A moderate soul with moderate views. I was expecting you to come out of the woodwork at some point....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Watched the video beheading of Mr. Armstrong today....no words to describe it.... indeed a very sad state of affairs with no solution in the foreseeable future. Why would you even watch it? it sounds a little sick to me. Very sad for the family and for this man. Now, rally in the streets and tell your governments that they should leave Iraq. I consider it news and I wanted to see what it was about. It's also the topic at hand and I prefer to know as much about as subject as is possible. Was it horrendous?... yes. A lot of news nowadays is. Indeed, it was extremely sad. I would disagree about an immediate pullout. I think that would only serve to compound the dissaray and plunge Iraq into an ever worse chaos. At the same time, I certainly don't agree with a foreign occupation force staying on indefinitely. It's a conundrum with no easy answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Don't watch the video, terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up2U Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 When I start seeing posts trying to illicit sympathy for Iraqis killed and suffering during the 14 year vendetta by the USA and Britain, I might take these threads seriously. The word is 'elicit' meaning to draw out, not 'illicit' meaning illegal. Please try to write English - especially with your claims about how good your English is. Believe me, it ain't. It is not your view that is contested by so many, it is your way of expressing that view - aggressive, contentious, knocking other people's point of view - generally known in web-postings as 'flaming'. You ask for every attacking response you receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Don't watch the video, terrible. I watched it Jack. It is hard to have a skerrick of sympathy for the murdering raggies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storekeeper Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 My Fiance and i had this discussion this morning,We cannot give into these Fanatics,Once you give in,Then everyone is kidnapping,This is the sad side of this conflict innocent people getting murdered on both sides, My heart goes out to him and the other 2,One which is no longer alive Which fanatics are we talking about? The murderous Americans? Dropping bombs from a great height, kills many. Lopping off a single head, kills one. When I start seeing posts trying to illicit sympathy for Iraqis killed and suffering during the 14 year vendetta by the USA and Britain, I might take these threads seriously. Most people dying now; hostages, innocent Iraqis, soldiers... are doing so as a DIRECT result of the actions taken by the US and Britain. This isn't a conflict where Iraqis waged war against the west. This is the west attacking an innocent people under the guise of liberating them.... A Brit has his head lopped off because he decided to go to Iraq to make some money? His choice. This thread belongs in the bin. You belong in the bin...where you can hide in cyber world you flunkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwiz117 Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Why many of you see just one side of this story? Why you people are occupying lands belongs to others? This I took from CNN news quoting the website.. ................................ "The Muslim blood is not water and the honor of Muslim women won't go to waste. Bush, eat your heart out, and Blair may you cry with tears of blood." .................................. Well said..who ever posted this.. Quoting Kofi Annan's message to UN General Assembly.. ...................... we see civilians massacred in cold blood, while relief workers, journalists and other noncombatants are taken hostage and put to death in the most barbarous fashion." "At the same time, we have seen Iraqi prisoners disgracefully abused," Annan said, referring to the Abu Ghraib prison scandal involving U.S. troops. ..................... At Last..Well said Mr. Annan.. To all here who are part of killing innocent people by supporting this state sponsored killings.. Just go to your country and live the way you want in your democracy and your own world. If you harm others, you may get the return back. Don't go on and talk history or cry here living in Thailand like babies. You'll are old enough than me to understand "Killing is Barbaric and you can not fool all people around the world". My Sympathies for the British guy and his family who are really innocent and considering the genuine protests all British People showed against this stupid war, and for your disgracefull prime minister who lick Bush's balls for dollars. One thing I understood in this forum is American's here think that we all should bend our back to them simply they come from America. Waiting for the day to see Iran or North Korea drop the baby inside America like what American's did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so that we all can live in this world peacefully respecting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storekeeper Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 "A Brit has his head lopped off because he decided to go to Iraq to make some money? His choice"Thats were the attitude is,the guy is one of us,lives in Thailand,has a Thai wife.Everybody that has spoke of him have said he was there only to help the Iraqi's not make a bunch of money. Yes I am with you that is sad and I dont agree with civillians being taken as hostages. I have 9 friends there at the moment, ranging from Scottish mechanics fixing the Humvees, to military guys helping with the invasion. Sad state of affairs for all concerned. Unfortunatley hatred does not see a uniform it sees a face. We see it on this forum all the time - they see us foreigners and hate and we see a Arab and hate. Door swings both ways. If Bush never invaded Iraq, this man would not have been kidnapped. Now that is a fact! And more Kurds would be used like Nazi experiments. You could care less about the 100's of thousands of Kurds gassed by Saddam...we had to hold the <deleted>' Turks back at the start of the war for cryin' out loud. Go join the Jane Fond and Joline Kerry fan club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storekeeper Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 valentinoxx has got a serious attitude problem Attitude problem or not valentinoxx speaks the truth. The US and Brits egged on by Israel started the war without cause. Their hardships are the direct result of their own actions. BU_ _SH _ T !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storekeeper Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 wolf5370You write as if the are some rules to be followed. Though you and I may think so, who is following these rules? The USA? The 'terrorists'? The USA didn't follow the rules, but you expect their much smaller opponents to follow your arbitrary rules. Let's stop this nonsense. Don't try to paint me as an extremist. Do not try to propagandise by using aid workers in your argument. The long and short of it is there is a lot of hatred for the USA in Iraq, suppressed only by the military forces of the USA. Killing people to force a 'democracy' on them? Anyway, I have made my feelings clear on this matter. If you choose to misinterpret them, go ahead. Knock yourself out. You paint yourself as IGNORANT ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Waiting for the day to see Iran or North Korea drop the baby inside America like what American's did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so that we all can live in this world peacefully respecting each other. I believe that every man has his rightful place in the overall scheme of the universe, Kwiz. Yours is to be tied over a log and slowly buggered to death by a horde of radical Islamic poofters. You are a total waste of oxygen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storekeeper Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Waiting for the day to see Iran or North Korea drop the baby inside America like what American's did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so that we all can live in this world peacefully respecting each other. I believe that every man has his rightful place in the overall scheme of the universe, Kwiz. Yours is to be tied over a log and slowly buggered to death by a horde of radical Islamic poofters. You are a total waste of oxygen! The guy is a FOOL...the day that happens is the day he breaths his last breath of oxygen !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwiz117 Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Waiting for the day to see Iran or North Korea drop the baby inside America like what American's did in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so that we all can live in this world peacefully respecting each other. I believe that every man has his rightful place in the overall scheme of the universe, Kwiz. Yours is to be tied over a log and slowly buggered to death by a horde of radical Islamic poofters. You are a total waste of oxygen! seems like you have watched the mini series.... just go to Iraq.. They are running out of numbers.. The day you backoff..then you will realize how many innocent people, families became victims of your war on terror. Seems like you'll are getting sidelined in the UN General Assembly and no one seems to be listening to your sermons. ###### is too good for people like you. Cheers to North Korea and Iran..!!! may you build more and more nukes to protect the world from this insane Americans.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insight Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Haven't seen the video yet, but if I do, it won't be because I'm sick and twisted, but will be to understand the massive emotional effect it is having on people. To me, though, it still seems like cause and effect. What was the first cause? Well it wasn't with Iraq invading America was it? I'm glad that certain prominent figures have mentioned their real feeling on the whole Iraq invasion situation recently. I just hope that this encourages more people to speak out and act, before the situation spirals more inevetably downward. Can anybody inform me to a convincing degree how the situation there could possibly improve with the current administration given what we've seen so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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