Singapore Keeps Australian Terror Scare Pilot

[mattias33]

If the floatplane could no longer be used in the Samui area as intended (water landings), was the flightplan to go to Singapore and return to Samui or on to Australia or? Why couldn't the Ossie pilot get his CPL validated by the Thai DCA? Great info, Gatorade! Very valuable to this thread which has generated much interest. Keep up the good work!

Agreed, good stuff Gatorade. So this was a non commercial flight then, ok.

I know the press tend to misreport this sort of thing, but "no approved flight plan" was mentioned.

If there were no flight plan, then it was an illegal international flight as filing in most cases is mandatory, and all that remains is the question why.

If there was a flight plan into Singapore, then unless they strayed wildly off it and did not get approval, I dont see why they would send up the airforce.

Possibly, athough very unlikely as they would (should) have used these earlier, it was a double VHF failure, as suggested.

There is something very odd about this.

Agreed. If you are on a flight plan and follow it not even double vhf failure would cause military action. You would simply put the transpondercode 7600 (7700 for emergensy,7500 for highjack, if i remember them correctly) and traffic-leader Atc would know you have com-failure, as long as you follow your flightplan you can continue this flight without radio, when you come to the airport the tower knows you are without com and they will give you clearance to land with a green flashlight.

Only reason for airforce to join you is illegal entrance. As i see it.

[yorkman]

Ahhh ......

From the Straits Times........

MORE light has been shed on the float plane that intruded into Singapore airspace on Tuesday evening, disrupting commercial traffic and leading to two air force F16D fighter jets being scrambled.

Piloted by two Australians, it was on a 'test flight' from Koh Samui Airport and was expected to return to the private airport on the resort isle, Thai aviation authorities said yesterday.

But the Cessna 208 Caravan Amphibian, a float plane able to land on water, ended up at Changi Airport, 1,000km away.

As the plane flew on towards Singapore without an approved flight plan, the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) scrambled two twin-seater F16D warplanes at 6.42pm to intercept it.

It landed at Changi Airport's central runway at 7.54pm and was ringed by airport police.

The 50-minute lockdown of Singapore's airspace, triggered when commercial air traffic was at its busiest, ended at 8pm.

The Cessna's flight on Tuesday was supposed to last 50 minutes. But, 21/2 hours later, it 'went off the air' despite repeated calls by air traffic controllers at Koh Samui Airport.

More here http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_200276.html

"test flight" eh?

[mattias33]

"test flight" eh?

Test flight as i know it is a flight that is done after repairs, normaly with the mecanic onboard. Certain manouvers are to be made (depending on what repair) and certain papers with the results are to be filled out by the mecanich for the planes service-book.

I agree that something is very strange in this story. A test flight ending up in another country?

Did he simply get lost? To much attetion on whats going on with the plane and to little attention on navigation??

Dont get it.

[Gatorade]

If the floatplane could no longer be used in the Samui area as intended (water landings), was the flightplan to go to Singapore and return to Samui or on to Australia or? Why couldn't the Ossie pilot get his CPL validated by the Thai DCA? Great info, Gatorade! Very valuable to this thread which has generated much interest. Keep up the good work!

Agreed, good stuff Gatorade. So this was a non commercial flight then, ok.

I know the press tend to misreport this sort of thing, but "no approved flight plan" was mentioned.

If there were no flight plan, then it was an illegal international flight as filing in most cases is mandatory, and all that remains is the question why.

If there was a flight plan into Singapore, then unless they strayed wildly off it and did not get approval, I dont see why they would send up the airforce.

Possibly, athough very unlikely as they would (should) have used these earlier, it was a double VHF failure, as suggested.

There is something very odd about this.

Agreed. If you are on a flight plan and follow it not even double vhf failure would cause military action. You would simply put the transpondercode 7600 (7700 for emergensy,7500 for highjack, if i remember them correctly) and traffic-leader Atc would know you have com-failure, as long as you follow your flightplan you can continue this flight without radio, when you come to the airport the tower knows you are without com and they will give you clearance to land with a green flashlight.

Only reason for airforce to join you is illegal entrance. As i see it.

I quite agree that something went awry here. However the Singaporeans are paranoid about their national airspace defence.

I think that in view of the chaos which the incident caused, the issuing of a report will hopefully take high priority and end the guesswork.

[Gatorade]

"test flight" eh?

Test flight as i know it is a flight that is done after repairs, normaly with the mecanic onboard. Certain manouvers are to be made (depending on what repair) and certain papers with the results are to be filled out by the mecanich for the planes service-book.

I agree that something is very strange in this story. A test flight ending up in another country?

Did he simply get lost? To much attetion on whats going on with the plane and to little attention on navigation??

Dont get it.

Never let a good story get in the way of facts.

[yorkman]

I quite agree that something went awry here. However the Singaporeans are paranoid about their national airspace defence.

I think that in view of the chaos which the incident caused, the issuing of a report will hopefully take high priority and end the guesswork.

Awry is one way of putting it . If you follow the link above to the latest news it becomes clearer.

But, yes, there will surely be an official report given the havoc they caused on a "test flight".

[highdiver]

I am sorry that this plane has left Samui. it was a long "standing" land mark.

I dont understand why they had to move it to singapore? (*nudg nudg, wink wink, say no more)

what are we going to gossip about now when we sit at the airport??

[Guest Reimar]

Experienced Pilot's which even very familar with the flown Aircraft, didn't get lost! And to get lost a distance of nearly 1,000 nm is a bit much!

And even that pilot's known the required procedures in Thailand very well!

But may we'll never know the real fact's what's behind this "Trip"!

Edit: Forget to mention: even for so nemaed "Test Flights" you need to file a Flightplan and an Gruop Flightplan didn't apply either while that apllies for Aircraft Service Center/Stations only.

[yorkman]

Experienced Pilot's which even very familar with the flown Aircraft, didn't get lost! And to get lost a distance of nearly 1,000 nm is a bit much!

I think thats a very fair thing to speculate Reimar!!

Ok, just look at what is known, The aircraft is getting close to its maximum range at 1000km. Therefore it has flown directly from Samui, avoiding Malaysian airspace. Got lost my a**e...

Then take this, from the Straits Times:

" The two Australian men were the only ones on board the Cessna. A check on its Australian civilian registration code, VH-NRP, showed that it was registered to Ms Mary Cummins on Jan 8 this year.

Ms Cummins and business partner Mr Rhys Thomas co-own Kimberley Extreme, an adventure tourism company based in the Australian outback town of Broome."

and :

" The plane previously carried Thai registration HS-CCO. It had been used by the Coco Seaplanes Company, which was owned by Coco International, a property developer behind beachfront developments on Koh Samui.

Coco Seaplanes, now believed to be defunct, has had a patchy business record since it was set up three years ago. Sources claim its sole float plane was often grounded due to licensing difficulties and it folded when its parent firm ran into problems"

So we have a fire sale (or a lease takeover) on the aircraft, and probably in this case a mountain of outstanding bills on the aircraft.

And, well it does not take Sherlock Holmes, but lets not speculate....

It just beggars belief though that they thought they could barge into Singapore airspace, it is notorious for its security.

[Gatorade]

Experienced Pilot's which even very familar with the flown Aircraft, didn't get lost! And to get lost a distance of nearly 1,000 nm is a bit much!

I think thats a very fair thing to speculate Reimar!!

Ok, just look at what is known, The aircraft is getting close to its maximum range at 1000km. Therefore it has flown directly from Samui, avoiding Malaysian airspace. Got lost my a**e...

Then take this, from the Straits Times:

" The two Australian men were the only ones on board the Cessna. A check on its Australian civilian registration code, VH-NRP, showed that it was registered to Ms Mary Cummins on Jan 8 this year.

Ms Cummins and business partner Mr Rhys Thomas co-own Kimberley Extreme, an adventure tourism company based in the Australian outback town of Broome."

and :

" The plane previously carried Thai registration HS-CCO. It had been used by the Coco Seaplanes Company, which was owned by Coco International, a property developer behind beachfront developments on Koh Samui.

Coco Seaplanes, now believed to be defunct, has had a patchy business record since it was set up three years ago. Sources claim its sole float plane was often grounded due to licensing difficulties and it folded when its parent firm ran into problems"

So we have a fire sale (or a lease takeover) on the aircraft, and probably in this case a mountain of outstanding bills on the aircraft.

And, well it does not take Sherlock Holmes, but lets not speculate....

It just beggars belief though that they thought they could barge into Singapore airspace, it is notorious for its security.

Well Sherlock its' just a small point but please explain how you get into Sin Airspace from Samui/Thailand without going through Malay Airspace?

Also, perhaps one of the previous threads regarding the operational difficulties in setting up the operation in Samui might be helpful with your pontificating. should you decide to read it.

[Rooo]

You know when you say 2 Australians,somehow it's ringing alarm bells.

[mattias33]

I heard a story once about a guy that got stopped from leaving the country. On the airport actually. Now, this guy happened to own a plane at that airport and was very smart.....

Lets not speculate the two threads together just yet shall we??

No, lets wait.............

[yorkman]

Well Sherlock its' just a small point but please explain how you get into Sin Airspace from Samui/Thailand without going through Malay Airspace?

Also, perhaps one of the previous threads regarding the operational difficulties in setting up the operation in Samui might be helpful with your pontificating. should you decide to read it.

My My, this is yet another time you have posted rather angrily on this thread, claiming to know some inside track, yet adding nothing. If you cant read a light hearted response to another poster, not yourself you may note, without venting your spleen, it does rather suggest you have an agenda.

But, just to humour you, and I dont even need to look at any other thread (wherever that might be), I think you would agree this does not appear to be a legal flight? Agreed? So legal operational difficulties dont come into it.

So, leave Samui, fly well offshore down the Malaysian coast and then track into SIN and by the time you attract the attention of the Malays, the Singapore ADIZ approaches. So they deal with it. For reasons that are irrelevent here, I am very very familiar with flight operations into and out of Singapore.

Lighten up, or pontificate on that, as you please

Or if you do know , do share..........

[yorkman]

You know when you say 2 Australians,somehow it's ringing alarm bells.

I dont say Rooo, the Straits Times does though.

[highdiver]

this is by far the best thread for a long time.

float plane that is thai registered to a local (farrang) business man is switched to a new Australian extreme sports company owner.

the original owner is arrested and the plane goes missing sorry .. test flight) only to be gound hours later invading Sinagpore airspace.

f16 are scrambled. speculations about the conspiracy floating around... pilots arguing about flight plans and aviation procedures.

how did the plane cross Malasia with our been noticed??

A true action movie in the making.

this would make a great TV drama for channel 3..

[sbk]

this would make a great TV drama for channel 3..

Where's the rich boy who falls in love with the sweet but poor girl who is the daughter of the maid, but his family expects him to marry the rich but nasty girl next door?

Can't be a television drama without them!

[highdiver]

this would make a great TV drama for channel 3..

Where's the rich boy who falls in love with the sweet but poor girl who is the daughter of the maid, but his family expects him to marry the rich but nasty girl next door?

SBK - just read all the posts in this thread and the other one disussing COCO and you can fill in the above casting.

the fact is that if you look back at all the history of COCO it will make a grat TV drama.

sometimes life is even better then fiction.

[mattias33]

this would make a great TV drama for channel 3..

Where's the rich boy who falls in love with the sweet but poor girl who is the daughter of the maid, but his family expects him to marry the rich but nasty girl next door?

SBK - just read all the posts in this thread and the other one disussing COCO and you can fill in the above casting.

the fact is that if you look back at all the history of COCO it will make a grat TV drama.

sometimes life is even better then fiction.

Highdiver, nobody said it out loud so far, and i will not either i know the rules. But i was discussing it with a thaivisa member poolside today and we both said "if thats the end of the story, its pure moviematerial"!!!!

Total agreement- life IS better than fiction and TMHO: we have not seen anything yet!!!!

[mattias33]

this would make a great TV drama for channel 3..

Where's the rich boy who falls in love with the sweet but poor girl who is the daughter of the maid, but his family expects him to marry the rich but nasty girl next door?

Can't be a television drama without them!

[yorkman]

SBK - just read all the posts in this thread and the other one disussing COCO and you can fill in the above casting.

the fact is that if you look back at all the history of COCO it will make a grat TV drama.

sometimes life is even better then fiction.

Ohhh, it could get better. Two Aussie aviators, stranded in the wilds of SE Asia, manage to cobble together their plane and finally fly back to civilisation (Well Australia anyway)

A sort of "Flight of the Pheonix" remake. Mix that in with a bit of "Top Gun" featuring the Singapore Air Force and it will make the big screen, never mind a TV Drama

[Gatorade]

Well Sherlock its' just a small point but please explain how you get into Sin Airspace from Samui/Thailand without going through Malay Airspace?

Also, perhaps one of the previous threads regarding the operational difficulties in setting up the operation in Samui might be helpful with your pontificating. should you decide to read it.

My My, this is yet another time you have posted rather angrily on this thread, claiming to know some inside track, yet adding nothing. If you cant read a light hearted response to another poster, not yourself you may note, without venting your spleen, it does rather suggest you have an agenda.

But, just to humour you, and I dont even need to look at any other thread (wherever that might be), I think you would agree this does not appear to be a legal flight? Agreed? So legal operational difficulties dont come into it.

So, leave Samui, fly well offshore down the Malaysian coast and then track into SIN and by the time you attract the attention of the Malays, the Singapore ADIZ approaches. So they deal with it. For reasons that are irrelevent here, I am very very familiar with flight operations into and out of Singapore.

Lighten up, or pontificate on that, as you please

Or if you do know , do share..........

Nah! Not angry, "just putting the facts Mam". Obviously touched a nerve eh? I do not agree that this was an intentional illegal flight. If it was, well the sh.. is well and truly in the fan and in due course we will get to know the truth.

You seem a little touchy when your rather amateurish ideas are questioned. Please advise how many miles offshore one has to fly to avoid Malay airspace. The scenario you propose is well and truly comic book stuff. Any more scenarios ? Please share. Unless of course you are too busy writing up the official incident report.

[yorkman]

Nah! Not angry, "just putting the facts Mam". Obviously touched a nerve eh? I do not agree that this was an intentional illegal flight. If it was, well the sh.. is well and truly in the fan and in due course we will get to know the truth.

You seem a little touchy when your rather amateurish ideas are questioned. Please advise how many miles offshore one has to fly to avoid Malay airspace. The scenario you propose is well and truly comic book stuff. Any more scenarios ? Please share. Unless of course you are too busy writing up the official incident report.

So put up the facts. Unless you are into the apparent fight with the PPL holders on here, for your own gratification no doubt. I dont do it, they are entitled to their views.

No nerves have been touched, truly

Now, still no facts from yourself. What is your version of events? You seem not to have put up any facts so far, despite sneering at almost every post in this thread. Again, what is your agenda in this, and your involvement?

You will be played by Danny de Vito in the upcoming movie no doubt

This truly is one of the funniest recent threads, thanks for your input....

[Rooo]

Can someone please enlighten me.If you are in a boat, 12 miles offshore is international water? What about airspace?How far offshore do you have to be ? Is there such a thing?

[yorkman]

Can someone please enlighten me.If you are in a boat, 12 miles offshore is international water? What about airspace?How far offshore do you have to be ? Is there such a thing?

By international law, a country's airspace corresponds with the maritime definition of territorial waters as being 12 miles out from a nation's coastline. Airspace not within any country's territorial limit is considered international, a bit like the high seas in maritime law.

In practice a country may, by agreement, take responsibility, for safety purposes, for controlling parts of international airspace, such as those over the oceans.

However, this does not mean, for defense or law enforcement purposes, that an aircraft will not be intercepted well outside these 12 mile limits. The US does it routinely with drug smugglers, NATO countries did it routinely with Soviet patrol aircraft, and vice versa (allegedly )

You might recall the incident a few years ago when an US Reconnaissance aircraft collided with a Chinese jet fighter? The international status of the incident's location is still unresolved; the Chinese claimed it as part of their air territory whereas the US claimed it was international airspace as per the Convention on the Law of the Sea.

It is murky ground, in practice governed by perception of threat and "might is right"

[Gatorade]

Nah! Not angry, "just putting the facts Mam". Obviously touched a nerve eh? I do not agree that this was an intentional illegal flight. If it was, well the sh.. is well and truly in the fan and in due course we will get to know the truth.

You seem a little touchy when your rather amateurish ideas are questioned. Please advise how many miles offshore one has to fly to avoid Malay airspace. The scenario you propose is well and truly comic book stuff. Any more scenarios ? Please share. Unless of course you are too busy writing up the official incident report.

So put up the facts. Unless you are into the apparent fight with the PPL holders on here, for your own gratification no doubt. I dont do it, they are entitled to their views.

No nerves have been touched, truly

Now, still no facts from yourself. What is your version of events? You seem not to have put up any facts so far, despite sneering at almost every post in this thread. Again, what is your agenda in this, and your involvement?

You will be played by Danny de Vito in the upcoming movie no doubt

This truly is one of the funniest recent threads, thanks for your input....

It is good that you find such a serious and potentially dangerous subject so amusing. Anyway takes all sorts.

Nothing wrong with Private pilots (wouldn't let my daughter marry one though).

Not fact, that is for the investigators, but another version of events.....

The aircraft was in the process of being sold. It went for a test flight at Samui.

The complex retractable undercarriage failed in mid sequence. It was suspected that

it was stuck in mid position which would cause extensive damage to land on the runway.

To land on the water would cause the aircraft to somersault. (There had been previous problems with this undercarriage)

A diversion was arranged with the approval of Thai ATC to divert the aircraft to

an approved repair base (Singapore). The SAF flight intercept unit did not receive the revised flight plan

and scrambled interceptors.

(It seems the malfuctioning undercarriage was sorted out during the

long flight to SIN).

I cannot verify any of the above. As stated many time previously the official investigation will reveal all!

However I would suggest that Communications coordination between the Singapore Civilain and Air Force ATC units

may well be under scrutiny..

[sbk]

It is good that you find such a serious and potentially dangerous subject so amusing. Anyway takes all sorts.

Nothing wrong with Private pilots (wouldn't let my daughter marry one though).

Not fact, that is for the investigators, but another version of events.....

The aircraft was in the process of being sold. It went for a test flight at Samui.

The complex retractable undercarriage failed in mid sequence. It was suspected that

it was stuck in mid position which would cause extensive damage to land on the runway.

To land on the water would cause the aircraft to somersault. (There had been previous problems with this undercarriage)

A diversion was arranged with the approval of Thai ATC to divert the aircraft to

an approved repair base (Singapore). The SAF flight intercept unit did not receive the revised flight plan

and scrambled interceptors.

(It seems the malfuctioning undercarriage was sorted out during the

long flight to SIN).

I cannot verify any of the above. As stated many time previously the official investigation will reveal all!

However I would suggest that Communications coordination between the Singapore Civilain and Air Force ATC units

may well be under scrutiny..

This also appears to be merely speculation???

[Gatorade]

It is good that you find such a serious and potentially dangerous subject so amusing. Anyway takes all sorts.

Nothing wrong with Private pilots (wouldn't let my daughter marry one though).

Not fact, that is for the investigators, but another version of events.....

The aircraft was in the process of being sold. It went for a test flight at Samui.

The complex retractable undercarriage failed in mid sequence. It was suspected that

it was stuck in mid position which would cause extensive damage to land on the runway.

To land on the water would cause the aircraft to somersault. (There had been previous problems with this undercarriage)

A diversion was arranged with the approval of Thai ATC to divert the aircraft to

an approved repair base (Singapore). The SAF flight intercept unit did not receive the revised flight plan

and scrambled interceptors.

(It seems the malfuctioning undercarriage was sorted out during the

long flight to SIN).

I cannot verify any of the above. As stated many time previously the official investigation will reveal all!

However I would suggest that Communications coordination between the Singapore Civilain and Air Force ATC units

may well be under scrutiny..

This also appears to be merely speculation???

Not really. It came from a reliable Air Traffic source who is usually accurate. But if you feel it is speculative please remove. The last sentence was certainly my guess.

[jumnien]

What are the odds that the plane just happened to have full fuel tanks for its short test flight and then just happened to fix the gear problem midair? Hope the pilots are buying lottery tickets in Singapore!

And why wouldn't they land in Phuket or Surat Thani if they had a emergency situation?

Edited January 28, 2008 by sunrise07

[yorkman]

Not really. It came from a reliable Air Traffic source who is usually accurate. But if you feel it is speculative please remove. The last sentence was certainly my guess.

Who may well be correct

"PETALING JAYA: The Department of Civil Aviation informed its Singapore counterpart of the flight plan of a Cessna 208 plane, which caused a major security alert at Changi Airport on Tuesday.

Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy said the DCA allowed the plane, which took off from Koh Samui in Thailand to enter Malaysian airspace, as it posed no danger.

“It was just a small plane and we had confirmed that it brought no threat to the country's defence.

“The DCA immediately informed its Singapore counterpart after getting the information from the Thai DCA that the plane was having some problems and needed repairs in Singapore,”"

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...&sec=nation

[Gatorade]

What are the odds that the plane just happened to have full fuel tanks for its short test flight and then just happened to fix the gear problem midair? Hope the pilots are buying lottery tickets in Singapore!

And why wouldn't they land in Phuket or Surat Thani if they had a emergency situation?

Can't comment on the fuel situation. But it wouldn't have needed full tanks with such a light load.

It would make sense to go somewhere where it could be fixed

and where the maintenance company had knowledge of the aircraft type. Otherwise might just as well

tried to land back at Samui.