Custody - German/thai Son 7 Month

[Helvetia]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

[Mario2008]

You don't state the most important thing:

Are you mentioned as the father on the birth certificate?

Did you legitimize (officialy recognize) the child as yours?

[Helvetia]

yes, i am the father and i am written on the birth-certificate as the father. (sorry)

what do you mean with:

Did you legitimize (officialy recognize) the child as yours?

if you mean:

-to sign the papers from the hospital - YES i did.

-to copy my passport (incl translation in thai) and give it to an office from the amphor - Yes, i did

thx for helping me

p.s

if i have a passport for my son, am i allowed to travel with him alone? can i leave thailand without his mother? or/and do i need a letter from her?

Edited August 2, 2008 by Helvetia

[Mario2008]

Legalisation measn that you officiele recognize the child as yours before the law. Many countries require this for you to be the legal father in case parents are not married. I'm not sure about the Thai requirements for this. But have a look at the website of the German Embassy:

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/ban...perty=Daten.pdf

It will also give you some information about the procedure in Thailand and how to obtain German nationality for your child. Thailand allows double nationality, not sure German law allows it. But the consular section of your embassy can help you with this. The also have a list of some lawyers in Bangkok.

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/ban...perty=Daten.pdf

Edited August 2, 2008 by Mario2008

[Boo]

If you get documentation in place proving you have sole custody then you can travel freely with him. I would, imo, go about applying for his german passport before anything else. If it is similar process to the UK passport then the mother is not required to sign anything.

[Helvetia]

so if i have a german passport for him, i can travel without her?

and if i only have a thai-passport?

but my main question is not answered.

how/where can i get full custody. i don't want to leave thailand. i have a job here, a car, a motorbike etc...

[Mario2008]

Your main questioin can't be answered. It is clear that you are the father, but not if you are also legaly the father. At best you currently have joint costudy, but in all likely hood the mother has sole costudy. Find a lawyer to help you find out what your legal status is and how you can obtain sole costudy. You will have to negotiate about getting sole costudy with the mother.

In the mean time, start keeping a diary and document what you do for/with your child. The purpose is that you can show that you are taking care of the child and not the mother. That includes the financial part. Keep the bills you pay for the docter, clothes etc. The help show that you take care of the child and not the mother.

[LaoPo]

so if i have a german passport for him, i can travel without her?

and if i only have a thai-passport?

but my main question is not answered.

how/where can i get full custody. i don't want to leave thailand. i have a job here, a car, a motorbike etc...

Why don't you contact this office, in your own language; he's a specialist in civilright and international family rights as well:

From the link Mario2008 provided, earlier:

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/ban...perty=Daten.pdf

BaumgartenBrandt

Dr. Ralf Baumgarten

Executive Director

Sathorn Thani Bldg. 2, Fl. 18

North Sathorn Rd.

Bangkok 10500

Tel. 02-636-8666

Fax:02-636-7626

Tel. 087-912-5165

E-Mail: [email protected]

Homepage: www. BB-Legal.De

Steuerrecht

Handels-, Wirtschafts und Gesellschaftsrecht

Arbeitsrecht

Allgemeines Zivilrecht

Internationales Insolvenzrecht

Internationales Erbrecht und Familienrecht

Deutsch

Englisch

Thai

Bereitschaft, deutsche Rechtsreferendare zur

Ausbildung aufzunehmen: ja

LaoPo

[Roby]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

[Roby]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

Money my dear,

Tell that you can give money, I have to do and give money for my daughter and to have peace too.

regards

roby

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

[tracer]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

Likelely you need as a starter money, a lawyer and time... GOTO your embassy and register that kid as a German asap if possible. Just remember the embassy sees this kind of case rather frequently so its not the nr 1 on their list even if it maybe on yours! If you go Bangkok who babysits ???

[philo]

If your son has a Thai AND a German passport you can just leave. Sell your car and gve your bike away ...

See:

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

[Mario2008]

If your son has a Thai AND a German passport you can just leave. Sell your car and gve your bike away ...

See:

http://travel.state.gov/family/abduction/c...ountry_528.html

Giving advice to abduct a child is not very helpfull. Also it is not the intention of the OP. He wants to live in Thailand, with his child. It would also be better for the child if the mother would not become be a total stranger.

[philo]

Don't be a puritan, Mario.

If you read alle the OP's posts he says the mother will not take care of the child, he will not leave it with her family, and asks: If the child has a German passport - can he travel with it without the mother ...

To every man his shit. The link provides actual information. If you're old enough to f..k, then you are old enough to read information and advice about Thai law.

He wants to stay in Thailand? Yes. But if he cannot, he has the option to take the child with him. That's it.

Please do not be a nanny. Kindergarten is for his son, not for him ...

[JohanJanssen]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

_

As has been said get your son a german passport as well, so you can travel without the mother.

-

If you wish to stay in Thailand you have to apply for custody at a local Juvenile court. The best thing would be if the mother would cooperate, if possible try to argue with her that this would be the best for the stability of the child.

Make a gesture to her by helping her starting up a new future. If she cooperates in court would it make your case much easier, once you got all this you can stay here ore travel make passports put land/house on your sons name etc..

Collect all the bills and other prove that you are taking care of your son, because before you go to the court you and your sons mother will be invited to the social service for a interview, and these people will report to the court.

The procedure will take about 4-5 months.

I have been trough this procedure and all went well, live already happy with my son for more than 4 years in thailand.

If you get custody I would recommend you to have it translated and stemped by your embassy so you can use it to get full custody in Germany as well.

Good luck.

[jts-khorat]

Legalisation measn that you officiele recognize the child as yours before the law. Many countries require this for you to be the legal father in case parents are not married. I'm not sure about the Thai requirements for this. But have a look at the website of the German Embassy:

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/ban...perty=Daten.pdf

It will also give you some information about the procedure in Thailand and how to obtain German nationality for your child. Thailand allows double nationality, not sure German law allows it. But the consular section of your embassy can help you with this. The also have a list of some lawyers in Bangkok.

http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/ban...perty=Daten.pdf

Germany does (and did) for my son, was an extremely fast and painless process to register him. He then became a German birth certificate, which nearly took a year, subsequently a passport. I never was married, no such documents necessary.

With this you would be free to travel whereever you wish, getting custody for him in Germany would be very much easier than here (pretty much no chance if the mother disagrees; in fact she can take you son and do with him as she pleases without you having any legal recourse until a custody hearing).

[0Mix1up]

by all means protect your rights as a father but what about your sons rights to a mother?

or the mothers rights?

so many simplistic answers to a very complicated situation!

[johna]

well you have made the right first step, get solid advice, as to problem, do not alert the mother to your intentions at this point, if she and her family are as bad as you say they may see a financial opportunity in this.

[jts-khorat]

well you have made the right first step, get solid advice, as to problem, do not alert the mother to your intentions at this point, if she and her family are as bad as you say they may see a financial opportunity in this.

At least legally she is in a bind with regard to opportunity; following Thai law she has pretty much no recourse to your income or estate for child support.

This of course changes immediately after you have legal custody over your son, as sole custody might be difficult in Thailand (and as one poster pointed out and I feel personally might not be a good solution anyway, a child needs his mother) and even with sole custody in Germany and moving there I would envisage visitation and other rights for the mother.

Not sure how far this would go, me and the mother of my own son stopped short of the actual custody process and found a (currently) amicable solution outside the courts.

[Godders]

hello,

can somebody tell me how i can get a full custody for my 8 month son?

-we were never married.

-we do not live toghether

-my son lives with me

-i have the birth-certificate

-he has no german passport

-i have NON-B visa

-i am nearly 30 years old

i do not trust his mother anymore, so i will protect my son of that dragons family. i do not want that my son has to live with her family. i know for sure, that she will never take care of him. she already has a daughter, and she grows up by her family. the behavior of this child (4 years) XXXXX.

and i do not want my son gets one of them.

-so what can i do?

-where do i have to go?

-what do i need?

-does someone knows a good lawyer (near bkk)

thank you a lot

If you were married you would automatically be the child's legal father and could claim custody, though you might not of course be successful with such a claim. However, since you are not married to the child's mother, you are not the child's legal father under Thai law. Normally, you would have to wait until the child is seven and able to stand up in court and confirm that you are its father before achieving such a status. It doesn't matter whether the birth certificate names you as the biological father or whether you obtain a German passport for your child. It will not legally be yours until you either wed the mother or persuade a court to make you the legal father. This would mean suing the mother if she were not willing to go along with your application. This is what I have been told by a leading Thai matrimonial lawyer who published his legal opinions in a Pattaya expats magazine, without any dissenters so far as I know. I wish the situation were otherwise, for I have an 18 month old daughter by a Thai lady to whom I am not married and cannot marry as my current wife refuses to divorce me. We have a good, loving and fairly longstanding relationship, but I am aware that no relationship is guaranteed to last and I am praying that nothing untoward happens before my little girl is able to stand up in a Thai court and declare (proudly, I hope) "Yes, that's my dad."

[jts-khorat]

stand up in a Thai court

That is the key phrase her, as the OP was advised a German passport etc will make it possible for him to travel to Germany without her interference and go through court proceedings there. This is, of course, morally highly questionable, but can be successful.

As he described his circumstances, he has no chance (and no right to) getting custody for his son at a local court.

But then, being pregnant takes 9 months, he was surely absolutely aware of this situation or has looked for legal advice then (in most local lawyer offices the first and most likely simple legal advice would have been free). Like so many things in Thailand, if you want to be a fool, there is a way. Moaning afterwards in such a clear-cut situation is not a cry for real help, it is just a method of getting a few friendly words and a sympathetic pat on the back, which some here have duly extended to him.

[coventry]

To get him a German passport doesn't his mother have to be signatory to the application as you aren't married and he has a Thai birth certificate ? Therefore he's Thai by rights. If she gets a Thai passport for him you may be shtuck . Germany doesn't recognise dual nationality.

[coventry]

Before all the do gooders/ knockers tell me I'm wrong about dual nationality then check the web. Try http://www.uscitizenship.info/citizenship-library-dual.htm You will also notice that it's prohibited in Thailand also.

Edited September 30, 2008 by coventry

[jts-khorat]

To get him a German passport doesn't his mother have to be signatory to the application as you aren't married and he has a Thai birth certificate ? Therefore he's Thai by rights. If she gets a Thai passport for him you may be shtuck . Germany doesn't recognise dual nationality.

As the OP stated 'he has the birth certificate' I am assuming that his name is listed there as father; else his question ends already right there as he would have no relationship to the child whatsoever.

This gives him the right to apply for a passport for his son, but it would be much better if he would have a German birth certificate (which you get after a long time of waiting after sending in his translated Thai certificate to the embassy). All this takes is time, a lot of it, but is a painless process. I do assume that at least a minor amount of cooperation from the wife can be obtained if it is a must, eg a signature here and there to give his son "all the benefits of having a farang passport".

My son has a German and a Thai passport; he will have to decide when he reaches maturity which one to keep (or rather which military service to take), until then there is no problem getting one from both countries. Dual nationality is not even a question as long as he is a minor.

When traveling, he leaves and enters Thailand on a Thai passport and leaves and enters Germany on his German one. This is standard procedure and I have done it several times this way.

[Mario2008]

For Thai nationals dual nationality is not an issue wether, minor or not. The Thai law states that you must choose, but doesn't specify what will happen if you don't choose. This means not choosing doesn't have consequenses. Many Thai adult have dual nationality.

Also note that German law allowes dual nationality under certain circumstances.

[coventry]

To get him a German passport doesn't his mother have to be signatory to the application as you aren't married and he has a Thai birth certificate ? Therefore he's Thai by rights. If she gets a Thai passport for him you may be shtuck . Germany doesn't recognise dual nationality.

As the OP stated 'he has the birth certificate' I am assuming that his name is listed there as father; else his question ends already right there as he would have no relationship to the child whatsoever.

This gives him the right to apply for a passport for his son, but it would be much better if he would have a German birth certificate (which you get after a long time of waiting after sending in his translated Thai certificate to the embassy). All this takes is time, a lot of it, but is a painless process. I do assume that at least a minor amount of cooperation from the wife can be obtained if it is a must, eg a signature here and there to give his son "all the benefits of having a farang passport".

My son has a German and a Thai passport; he will have to decide when he reaches maturity which one to keep (or rather which military service to take), until then there is no problem getting one from both countries. Dual nationality is not even a question as long as he is a minor.

When traveling, he leaves and enters Thailand on a Thai passport and leaves and enters Germany on his German one. This is standard procedure and I have done it several times this way.

It does matter. In that he cannot apply for a German passport without the mothers consent. From what I understand, that will not be forth comining. He has a Thai birth certificate and in the eyes of the Thai government he is Thai. In the eyes of the German government, without a passport, he is Thai. The ball is in the mothers court. I suggest, right or wrong, that the OP pays the mother off. I'm sure she will, as she wont want to be holding baby. Just a question of how much ? To agree that he gets a German passport, my figure would be 200,000 Baht. This is because the figure mentioned is too big for the average Thai to refuse. Good luck.

[ffm]

Please be aware of this: Under German law you have absolutely no rights as the child's unmarried father. In this case, the mother always has automatic full custody.

You won't even get a German passport from the embassy for your child without the mother's consent. Actually, she has to apply for the passport on behalf of the child.

Even with the German passport, most likely you won't be allowed to take the child out of the country. Dual nationals are supposed to enter and leave Thailand on their Thai passport. Without the mother being present, the authorities need proof you having sole custody, or the mother's consent of the child travelling out of Thailand. You may have a chance at a remote land border, but certainly not if you try to fly out of Bangkok.

[torrenova]

Please be aware of this: Under German law you have absolutely no rights as the child's unmarried father. In this case, the mother always has automatic full custody.

You won't even get a German passport from the embassy for your child without the mother's consent. Actually, she has to apply for the passport on behalf of the child.

Even with the German passport, most likely you won't be allowed to take the child out of the country. Dual nationals are supposed to enter and leave Thailand on their Thai passport. Without the mother being present, the authorities need proof you having sole custody, or the mother's consent of the child travelling out of Thailand. You may have a chance at a remote land border, but certainly not if you try to fly out of Bangkok.

Sorry, I think you are very much mistaken. The issue of kids flying out with fathers only has been gone over many times and actual cases have been posted. You do leave on the Thai passport for sure but because the Thai passport does not have a visa for the EU country, you have to show both.

As for the mother having to apply for the passport - what a croc of ... Don't be serious saying that a Thai mother applies to the German embassy for German passport ofr a baby she cannot prove is half German ! She cannot transmit German nationality, only the German father can.

[ffm]

I never tried this myself, so I am not sure about Thai immigration authorities allowing the foreign father flying out with his Thai son without proof of sole custody or the mother's consent.

Applying for the German passport is in fact only the second step in a process. The first one is the formal recognition of the child by the father at the embassy. As the child is born out of wedlock, several documents are required proving that the child's mother was not married to someone else at the time of birth. Then, the father has to sign a document stating that he accepts the child as his. The mother has to agree. The embassy will then issue a document called 'Vaterschaftsanerkennung'. With this document, the child's custodian can apply for a German passport. Once this document is issued, the father's cooperation is no more required. The mother can apply for the child's passport on her own.

Sorry, I think you are very much mistaken. The issue of kids flying out with fathers only has been gone over many times and actual cases have been posted. You do leave on the Thai passport for sure but because the Thai passport does not have a visa for the EU country, you have to show both.

As for the mother having to apply for the passport - what a croc of ... Don't be serious saying that a Thai mother applies to the German embassy for German passport ofr a baby she cannot prove is half German ! She cannot transmit German nationality, only the German father can.

Edited October 14, 2008 by ffm

[Mario2008]

A (Thai) mother can even apply for citizenship for her child without the help for the father. Many countries have the possibility of filing a paternity suit, in which the court determines who the father is. If need be by DNA-testing. It is mostly used to get child support from the father, but with the court does is determine that the father is the legal father and thus there exist family ties between father and child. Meaning the child can apply for the nationality of the father (if he hasn't have it already by law) and is entitled to inheritence.

The cooperation of the father is in this procedure not necesary. It's for when the father doesn't want to acknowledge the child.