Applying For U S Social Security From Abroad

[jaideeguy]

Yikes, I'm almost 62 and have just filled out the lengthy online form for American Social Security, but i hesitated clicking the 'submit' button until I get some answers to a few concerns.

1] There was no provision for using my Thai address so I used my brother's Hawaii address, both as a physical address and mailing address. i already use his address for my personal, banking and business matters and he forewards correspondences to me....so I guess that it's ok.

2] My banking address [to receive SS checks] is in America, but they have my Thai address for contact purposes....statements etc.

3] I'm legally married [7yrs]to a Thai woman with two children from a previous marriage and I haven't gone thru the legal adoption process and I haven't gone thru the process to get my wife a SS or TIN number. It seems that I heard that must be applied for by her going to the states and cannot be applied for here??

4] So, i'm faced with having to decide would it be cost effective to bring her to the states to get a TIN/SS number so that I will get a larger SS monthly payment [how much more $'s?] and can we claim our kids if I go thru the adoption process here??

Surely there are other American-baby-boomer-expats out there that have been in the same boat as me and if anyone can share experiences or knowledge on this, then please do...........

I'm holding off clicking 'submit' until I get some answers to my above concerns.

Thanks in advance.....

Edited March 21, 2009 by jaideeguy

[skipvice]

This may be of some help.

SOCIAL SECURITY

There is no Social Security Office in Thailand. The U.S. Embasy in Bangkok does have a person who provides limited assistance in Social Security issues. Your Service Officer at a local VFW Post can provide assistance on your behalf. The following topic provides answers to an important topic of interest to Veterans married to Thai Wives:

“What rights to Social Security payments exist for a non-US-citizen spouse or the vet’s dependents?”

Here is the criteria:

A. Thai Citizenship: If your wife, a Thai citizen, and is to be paid S/S benefits, she must have lived in the USA for a minimum of 5 years as a part of the family. A Thai wife would not be eligible if her 5 years included 2 years as a student and 3 years marriage to a vet. The 5 years does not have to be consecutive. It can be a few months at a time as long as you are with your husband and it adds up to five years. Ensure you keep all your old passports.

A Thai citizen and resident who while residing in the U.S. contributed to the SSA system by FICA taxes for forty periods (ten years) can claim and be paid SSA benefits while residing in Thailand. Taxed at 30%.

An exception would be if the American citizen husband died while in active duty with the U.S. military or as a result of a service-connected disease/injury or a citizen or resident of a Social Security “agreement country.” His spouse and minor children (under 18) may be eligible for benefits.

B. Surviving Spouse: An eligible person for SSA benefits is the surviving spouse of a Number Holder entitled for age to SSA benefits at least age 60 and duration of marriage for not less than nine months, unless the number holder died in an accident before the end of the nine months.

C. Surviving Children: Children adopted outside the US, are not generally eligible for payments; natural-born children likely are. IN any case you'll need proof of support and proof the child lived with you. Registering such children at the Embassy is one way of establishing residence. These are general guidelines. Each case needs to be evaluated on its own.

D. S/S Payments to Non –Citizens living in the USA. Public Law 104-193, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, permits payment of Social Security benefits to non- citizens living in the United States (U.S.) only if they are lawfully present in this country. The law requires that anyone living in the U.S. who applies for Social Security benefits on or after September 1, 1996, must provide evidence that he or she is a U.S. citizen or U.S. national, or an alien lawfully present in the U.S. as determined by the Attorney General.

This law does not affect:

Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.;

Social Security benefits for people who applied before September 1, 1996; or

Entitlement to Medicare hospital insurance by Social Security beneficiary.

For more information, you may call this toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. Representatives there will be glad to help you, If you live outside the U.S.

E. Service-Connected Death: To use your service-connected death, have the DVA award document and the doctor’s statement on the cause of death being due to or attributable to the death.

F. Lump Sum Payment: This law does not affect:

Social Security benefits for people residing outside the U.S.;

Social Security benefits for people who applied before September 1, 1996; or

Entitlement to Medicare hospital insurance by Social Security beneficiary.

For more information, you may call this toll-free number, 1-800-772-1213. Representatives there will be glad to help you, If you live outside the U.S.

G. Useful links

http: www.ssa.gov

http: www.Saa.gov.foreign/phones.html

U.S. Embassy: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov

Medicare links: www.medicare.gov

[Smokin Joe]

In answer to #3

You don't need to go to the US to get your wife an ITIN. You just need to submit a U.S. Tax Return where you file jointly. With the return you include her application for an ITIN and a certified copy of her Thai passport (done by the US Embassy).

There are other ways but this is probably the easiest and most appropriate. No problem with her using your brothers address for a US mailing address if you want also.

[jaideeguy]

If I do apply for my wife to get a ITIN number, will that qualify her to be added as a dependent and up my monthly SS payment?? And what about my [yet to be adopted] children??

[skipvice]

my advice is to call the SSA in the Philippines and ask them. I do not think you can get any more money just because your married unless your wife is eligible and 62 also.

Philippines

Social Security Division

U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

Regional Office

American Embassy

1131 Roxas Boulevard

Ermita 0930 Manila

Philippines

Phone: 632-301-2000, extensions 6302, 6319, and 5085

Fax: 632-522-1514

[Fore Man]

Yikes, I'm almost 62 and have just filled out the lengthy online form for American Social Security, but i hesitated clicking the 'submit' button until I get some answers to a few concerns.

1] There was no provision for using my Thai address so I used my brother's Hawaii address, both as a physical address and mailing address. I already use his address for my personal, banking and business matters and he forewards correspondences to me....so I guess that it's ok.

<OP truncated to save space>

What about this first question posed by the OP? I don't have a USA address to use in applying when I begin benefits. How do you skirt around this issue? Thanks.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Fore Man

[PeaceBlondie]

ForeMan, I simply went to American Consular Services (in Chiang Mai) and submitted my application. It was sent by diplomatic pouch to the office in Manila. Six months later, I got six months back payments. Maybe it was 4.5 months later. The delay was not in Manila, but later in Baltimore.

[jaideeguy]

The online application is quite user friendly, but lengthy and they give you no foreign alternatives for both the mailing addres and your physical address. They also recomend [for security and convenience] that you have deposits sent direct to bank and request routing number.

PB....didn't know that you could do it in CM. Do they supply forms or can you download??

I did read that it takes 4 months, [no less] to get your first check.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The online application is quite user friendly, but lengthy and they give you no foreign alternatives for both the mailing addres and your physical address. They also recomend [for security and convenience] that you have deposits sent direct to bank and request routing number.

PB....didn't know that you could do it in CM. Do they supply forms or can you download??

I did read that it takes 4 months, [no less] to get your first check.

FYI, my Soc Sec check is a direct deposit to my credit union in the U.S. I do, however, use Thanyaburi as my mailing address so the 1099 comes here and other mail from the SSA. Same with my IRS stuff, comes here. This has been handy to show that I'm retired here when my wife applied for a U.S. tourist visa.

Mac

[lanny]

Your monthly benefit is not affected by your marital status. The amount is based on your earnings history; adding a wife or dependent children will not increase the payment.

If your wife meets the requirements (explained in other posts) she may be entitled to 1/2 of your benefit. (This does not reduce the amount you receive.) Generally, however, unless your Thai wife lived with you in the US, she cannot draw SS benefits. She will not qualify for survivor benefits, either.

[PeaceBlondie]

I downloaded the forms from the SSA website, completed them myself, called Manila for clarification, etc. I only used the US Consulate for mailing it to Manila. Manila was the first to inform me of the 40-hour per MONTH limit for working overseas for any amount, which cancels that entire month's check. http://ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

After you reach full retirement age (FRA), you can work 149 hours per week if you wish. But between Aage 62 and FRA, they will send you forms to fill out. At least, they will if they know you are overseas. If you fail to send back the forms, they stop your check.

[chiang mai]

I downloaded the forms from the SSA website, completed them myself, called Manila for clarification, etc. I only used the US Consulate for mailing it to Manila. Manila was the first to inform me of the 40-hour per MONTH limit for working overseas for any amount, which cancels that entire month's check. http://ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

After you reach full retirement age (FRA), you can work 149 hours per week if you wish. But between Aage 62 and FRA, they will send you forms to fill out. At least, they will if they know you are overseas. If you fail to send back the forms, they stop your check.

Do you understand that US Pensions payments made to non-resident aliens are subject to US withholding tax?

[lanny]

I downloaded the forms from the SSA website, completed them myself, called Manila for clarification, etc. I only used the US Consulate for mailing it to Manila. Manila was the first to inform me of the 40-hour per MONTH limit for working overseas for any amount, which cancels that entire month's check. http://ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

After you reach full retirement age (FRA), you can work 149 hours per week if you wish. But between Aage 62 and FRA, they will send you forms to fill out. At least, they will if they know you are overseas. If you fail to send back the forms, they stop your check.

Do you understand that US Pensions payments made to non-resident aliens are subject to US withholding tax?

That is not quite true!

Social security payments to non-resident aliens are subject to a 30% withholding However, pensions from state government or private pension plans are not subject to US taxes. The US-Thai tax treaty says that only the country of RESIDENCE may tax such pensions. But, it also says that social security benefits are taxable only by the country making such payments.

[longball53098]

The online application is quite user friendly, but lengthy and they give you no foreign alternatives for both the mailing addres and your physical address. They also recomend [for security and convenience] that you have deposits sent direct to bank and request routing number.

PB....didn't know that you could do it in CM. Do they supply forms or can you download??

I did read that it takes 4 months, [no less] to get your first check.

When I first was applying like you I tried using the online application and it would not allow me to submit it. They have no provisions built into the system for people like us living out of the country. I used the Manila PI method and as already stated it took about 4 months between sending and receiving things. It starts with getting the forms and info from the Embassy or Consulate offices or directly from the office in Manila. For me they were slow to respond but that was 3 years ago. I now know of at least 4 people that have used Manila and all are happily getting their SSA bennies.

[Fore Man]

ForeMan, I simply went to American Consular Services (in Chiang Mai) and submitted my application. It was sent by diplomatic pouch to the office in Manila. Six months later, I got six months back payments. Maybe it was 4.5 months later. The delay was not in Manila, but later in Baltimore.

Thanks PeaceBlondie. Good to know this is possible and I hadn't really given that option any thought. Another long-time American expat in CM advised me that he simply mailed off his application to the Manila office. I suppose it can work either way.

[chiang mai]

I downloaded the forms from the SSA website, completed them myself, called Manila for clarification, etc. I only used the US Consulate for mailing it to Manila. Manila was the first to inform me of the 40-hour per MONTH limit for working overseas for any amount, which cancels that entire month's check. http://ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html

After you reach full retirement age (FRA), you can work 149 hours per week if you wish. But between Aage 62 and FRA, they will send you forms to fill out. At least, they will if they know you are overseas. If you fail to send back the forms, they stop your check.

Do you understand that US Pensions payments made to non-resident aliens are subject to US withholding tax?

That is not quite true!

Social security payments to non-resident aliens are subject to a 30% withholding However, pensions from state government or private pension plans are not subject to US taxes. The US-Thai tax treaty says that only the country of RESIDENCE may tax such pensions. But, it also says that social security benefits are taxable only by the country making such payments.

My post was a question, I take it the answer is that US pension payments made through Social Security are NOT taxed at source.

[jmac]

I would read that online form very closely. I believe when you apply your electronic signature you are attesting you are physically in the USA. All apps from SE Asia must go through Phillipines. To get mine I had to get my congressman involved.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, there is no required withholding on SSA retirement pensions. A portion of it could be taxable, however. You can probably elect to have an amount withheld.

[jaideeguy]

" I would read that online form very closely. I believe when you apply your electronic signature you are attesting you are physically in the USA. All apps from SE Asia must go through Phillipines. To get mine I had to get my congressman involved"

Yes, I will read the fine print that we all [automtically] 'agree' to and it seems the general concensus is to do it physically by mail to Manila. I'm now glad that I hesitated at the end when they prompted me to 'submit'

Thanks all for the tips.......

[noise]

Yes, I will read the fine print that we all [automtically] 'agree' to and it seems the general concensus is to do it physically by mail to Manila. I'm now glad that I hesitated at the end when they prompted me to 'submit'

One person at the consulate very strongly recommended using the mail system or, even better, DHL/FedEx vice letting the consulate send it it. If the consulate sends it in, it goes through many distribution points and you can not certify/register. You have no tracking capability and they take no responsibility for it.

I was very pleased with using DHL and being able to get on line confirmation that it was delivered 2 days later and signed for by "specific name" identified. Sure, it cost more, but I liked getting what I paid for.

About 1 month later I got the forms mailed back from Manila with a cover letter saying all the info was in the computer so they no longer needed the actual application.

And about 1 month later I got confirmation of approval and specifics on the amount and estimated date of payments each month (direct depost in a U.S. bank).

ASIDE: The consulate recommended sending in a preliminary application to have them tell me exactly what is required. I didn't do that as I thought it was straight forward. It was. The hardest part was finding the form SSA-01 on line. Just in case, I attached it.

RE wife and children: as recommended, file joint with the wife and the kids as dependents and get Tax (or is it taxpayer) Identification Numbers (TIN) for all 3. I would think they would qualify as dependents.

ssa_01_2006_fillable.pdf

[jaideeguy]

If they [wife and 2 kids] do get the TIN number, does that increase my monthly SS payments ??

and give the wife and kids survivor's benefits when i've 'left the planet'??

Getting conflicting info on this one.......

Thanks for the links and tips,

JDG

[jaideeguy]

OK, just when I was getting ready to send forms off to Manila, i found this on the SS website........

If you are in any other country, please be sure to use one of the addresses listed below.

If you are not receiving benefits and would like to inquire about benefit eligibility, you may use the following contact address (please be sure to include your Social Security Number):

Social Security Administration

Office of International Operations

P.O. Box 17775

Baltimore, Maryland 21235-7775

Maybe a call to their 800 number in US [or the CM consulate] tomorrow will settle this

[PeaceBlondie]

Be aware that the Consulate is seldom open, and only by appointment now. I doubt they are well trained in SSA matters. Also, the 1-800 number is not free, has long delays, and the ladies there may know nothing about overseas applicants. By contrast, if they answer the phone, the folks in Manila are brilliant.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

OK, just when I was getting ready to send forms off to Manila, i found this on the SS website........

If you are in any other country, please be sure to use one of the addresses listed below.

If you are not receiving benefits and would like to inquire about benefit eligibility, you may use the following contact address (please be sure to include your Social Security Number):

Social Security Administration

Office of International Operations

P.O. Box 17775

Baltimore, Maryland 21235-7775

Maybe a call to their 800 number in US [or the CM consulate] tomorrow will settle this

For you folks who are U.S. military veterans, be sure to include your DD214 with your SocSec package, even tho it may not be listed as a required document. One friend of mine got a snail mailed letter back from the Manila office requesting the 214, some 6 months (!!) after he'd made the initial application. Sent it in, and had to wait another couple of months for his checks.

Me? I did mine quickly in front of a SocSec clerk at the small office in Beaverton, Oregon, while back visiting relatives.

Mac

[longball53098]

Perfect answer is to visit the SSA regional office when in the US but not all can do this.

Everyone keeps pointing to Manila and I agree. If you try to go around the system using Baltimore things will get more confused. I had the experience of calling Baltimore once and they said to contact Manila as I am in that region.

Use Manila for all SSA contact and mailings.

A definite yes about the copy of DD 214 if a vet as there is a calculation to get a few more bucks depending on length of service.

[jmac]

If you send any forms to Manila be sure and use certified copies that you must get at the embassy. I sent orginals (stupid I know), and they lost my dd214 and refused to try and locate it. They claimed they never received it but ok'd my benefits.

[PeaceBlondie]

That's right - the benefit formula gives extra credit for active duty military service, but only with proof that the service was served.

Then there is the Catch 62 for pensioners under the old CSRS federal pension, but that is another story

[dvbutler]

Can someone please refer me to a discussion about having my US Social Security check sent to Thailand for deposit here? Thanks you--David Butler, keyword vertume

[jaideeguy]

An update to the current procedure, as I just successfully went thru it.

Called US Consulate in Chiang Mai and they sent me via email a short 3 page form that required minimal info and that can be faxed or mailed to the SSA in Manila. I both faxed and sent by EMS, as I don't trust either 100%. 2 days later I got a prelemenary phone call from SSA Manila asking me to make an appointment for a phone interview. Did that and mostly a repeat/confirmation of info I had already provided and that was it.

Interviewer said that I would receive a letter of confirmation from the US main office and that I should receive my first check deposited in my US bank account in August.

[chuckd]

One other little tip when dealing with the US Embassy. There is no charge for a certification of forms required by the US government.

Don't pay anything for form certification relating to Social Security.

I sent a package last month to Manila using TNT Express. Cost 1,000 baht. More expensive than EMS but faster and you can trace the shipment on-line.

Edited April 28, 2009 by chuckd