First Time Motorbike

[LivinLOS]

The belt is a normal maintenance cost, simple and easy.. Its when those gearboxes whine the real issue lies.. Prices on fixing that range from lowest 4k to a more normal 7 - 8k.. Unless the while is just the final drive bearing which is cheaper but still needs a 1 -2 k or so strip down.

That would be akin to having an entire manual gearbox go but as thats never happened on any of my manuals I wouldnt know what the cost is.. Shes done 2 gearboxes in the last 6 months on auto nuovo mx's.

But I mean thats obvious.. Higher complexity breeds more hassle.. For some the auto is a convenience so makes up for the complexity for me its nasty to ride, and a loss of control.. Someone recently posted that their auto has engine braking downhill, I would say go get someone to look at that gearbox as a CVT clutched gearbox should only have the engine connected to the final drive when the engine is revving higher than the speed of freewheeling. Otherwise it should freewheel to preserve kinetic energy and forward motion. Hence you cant have engine braking in an auto which is horrible with phukets steep hills and my body mass, it overworks the brakes creating more stress.

The elegance is IMO the best of the cheap autos, and I understand how some people find the gears difficult somehow.. But in general terms they age faster, produce less power at the wheel, cost more etc.. None of those things really would bother me as I dont ride a scooter for power, but the ride of an auto in anything less than a flat, stop and go, town environment is just not for me.

[Richard-BKK]

He LivingLOS you forget that the Kwaker ZX130 is also a easy and cheap motorcycle in repair cost...

The strongest and most powerful bikes, in the underbone range, are first the new Suzuki Raider 150, the Yamaha Spark 135i and the Kawasaki ZX130. And I bet that the Tiger CX135 is not a wimpy. (with the exception of the Suzuki Raider 150, this all are 4-gear bikes).

And anybody saying that his automatic "variable" transmission two-wheeler is faster then a transmission bike with comparable combustion engine is just plain stupid. And clearly doesn't what he is talking about. I would give a similar answer to somebody saying a automatic "variable" transmission is cheaper in maintenance.... Or maybe there are still people out-there who think that the Earth is flat.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[katabeachbum]

And anybody saying that his automatic "variable" transmission two-wheeler is faster then a transmission bike with comparable combustion engine is just plain stupid. And clearly doesn't what he is talking about. I would give a similar answer to somebody saying a automatic "variable" transmission is cheaper in maintenance.... Or maybe there are still people out-there who think that the Earth is flat.

If a Yamaha Elegance 135cc goes faster up the hills than a Wave 125 with same load (100kg), is that stupid?

If the transmission maintance cost for 5 year/45k km is cheaper for automatic than Wave is that stupid?

I do know what I am talking about, because we v tried.

Up the hill.

Payed the transmission maintance.

The OP here is a unexperienced lady rider wanting advice on bike in Kho Lanta. The ones you suggest are really not fit for her. 6-7 years ago there where several reasons for choosing manual gear. Now it all comes down to a slightly higher purchase price and 2.000 baht a year/10.000 km in extra fuel-cost. Go auto

[Richard-BKK]

Dear Katabeachbum,

For somebody who has experience on a Honda Wave 125 and a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance you seem to know little of the semi-automatic transmission of the Honda Wave.

So let me explain, the Honda Wave 125 (or matter of fact all models) are equipped with a centrifugal clutch, which mean when the engine is running on its minimum amount of rpm the clutch is disconnected. So without applying the throttle you can move from neutral to gear 4 without any problems. Changing gear while riding is easy you let the throttle go and change gear and twist the throttle again to increase speed.... For the more powerful Honda Wave's as in the Wave 125i it is even possible to start in 3th gear, and still do a reasonable get-a-way speed... (this doesn't work in mountains, or maybe downhill).

"6-7 years ago there where several reasons for choosing manual gear" what changed?

Edited May 7, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[katabeachbum]

Dear Katabeachbum,

For somebody who has experience on a Honda Wave 125 and a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance you seem to know little of the semi-automatic transmission of the Honda Wave.

So let me explain, the Honda Wave 125 (or matter of fact all models) are equipped with a centrifugal clutch, which mean when the engine is running on its minimum amount of rpm the clutch is disconnected. So without applying the throttle you can move from neutral to gear 4 without any problems. Changing gear while riding is easy you let the throttle go and change gear and twist the throttle again to increase speed.... For the more powerful Honda Wave's as in the Wave 125i it is even possible to start in 3th gear, and still do a reasonable get-a-way speed... (this doesn't work in mountains, or maybe downhill).

"6-7 years ago there where several reasons for choosing manual gear" what changed?

Dear Richard-BKK

Thank for sharing your knowledge on manual bike transmissions with foot operated centrifugal clutch. I wouldnt bother to reply if you hadnt asked me a question. Should ad that the clutch can be disengaged at any time with the gearlevel.

The change in 6-7 years is that cvt-autos are now less pricy, more reliabel, more efficient and connected to more modern engines. Ever tried a Audi V6 cvt? Or Nissan Teana V6 cvt? Yamaha 500 Tmax? Hondas new 750? cvt?

No problem for me to shift and clutch my 1.800 cc v-twin, or any other vehicle.

For a first time bike rider I still think auto is the best choice, focusing on traffic issues rather than shifting gear and throtteling as you describe. go auto

[Richard-BKK]

You surprise me Audi, Nissan, Yamaha 500cc Honda's with Constant Variable Transmission (CVT) please tell us more... This is just an amazing development if it was true....

The CVT was developed by a Dutch company, which successful installing a Constant Variable Transmission system in one of its first cars, the DAF 600 was equipped with a DAF Variomatic transmission system.

Now-a-day the system is licensed to a lot of manufacturers, but did not know of a Audi, Nissan Teana, also the use of a CVT on the Yamaha T-Max will undermine Yamaha's own technology of YCC semi-automatic transmission system.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[katabeachbum]

You surprise me Audi, Nissan, Yamaha 500cc Honda's with Constant Variable Transmission (CVT) please tell us more... This is just an amazing development if it was true....

Dear Richard-BKK

Forst you call me stupid, which I m not. and now you say i m lying?

1. Audi V6 is not officially sold in LOS, so check web.

2. Nissans showroom would be a good place to check out Nissan Teana V6 cvt. Been sold for years. New model just out.

3. Yamaha showroom would be a good place to check aut its Tmax 500 cvt transmission. I used to have a 2006, been around for some years. just had a facelift 2009. fantastic machine.auto/cvt. Take a close look.

4. Hondas new super auto is not yet for sale in LOS, but check us web. introduced 2008 You ll be amazed. and might stop you from saying I am a lyer.

5. Suzuki Burgman 650 cvt was the largest cvt auto mass market bike before the Honda came.

Do you have any idea how Yamaha is doing with their 1000cc cvt roadracingbike? Havent updated if they are winning everything or only a few races.

The first CVT in cars started selling in the 70s. Volvo/Daf 66. Later Volvo 343.

Ever seen any Honda Jazz 2002-2008? thailands most sold hatchback. CVT-auto. No hydraulic auto.

This is not an amazing development. Its more than 30 years of cvt-auto in mass market vehicles. wake up. Go auto especially with your first bike

[jackcorbett]

The Suzuki Skydrive 125 is not a Suzuki Hayate.

The Suzuki Skydrive 125 is Suzuki's latest wonder two-wheeler, it has a fuel-injection system which is equipped with several sensors. Basically it doesn't matter what fuel you put in at the pump (as long it is no diesel).

I need to be honest, I never compared the Suzuki Skydrive 125 directly to a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance (135cc), but as the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance already has problems with a Honda Air Blade i (a 110cc fuel-injection model) it would be a sure thing that the Suzuki Skydrive would be impossible for a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. A Suzuki Skydrive can put distance between itself and a Honda Air Blade i in just a few seconds. The Yamaha Nouvo Elegance is faster at the red light then the Honda Air Blade i but the Air Blade comes back fast to the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance.

"chains are yesterday's technology" you really should consider a act as stand-up comedian, I'm sure that most motorcycle factories will hire you for company parties and you can always do biker bars and Bike Weeks.... as you really funny...

You have stated the Nouvo Elegance already has problems with a Honda Air Blade (a 110 c.c. fuel injection model. I have raced Air Blades several times with my old 115 c.c. Nouvo MX. Driver weight was a huge factor, the bike with the lightest driver assuming a meaningful weight difference winning handily. But given two drivers of nearly identical weight it was a dead heat all the way out to around 40 to 50 kilimeters per hour and then the Yamaha would start to pull away from the Honda.

The new Honda Airblade reputedly gets 15 % more fuel economy while getting better acceleration due to the new fuel injection system. Now let's assume it gets 15 % more power than the old un fuel injected Air Blade which I seriously doubt. But say it does as a best case scenario. The 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance is rated at 25 % greater horsepower than the 115 c.c. air cooled MX. And believe me, my new bike feels 25 % more powerful than my old one. So although I might like the idea of a more efficient fuel injected Air Blade for its improved fuel efficiency and possible improved acceleration and top end. I think the Nouvo Elegance would out accelerate the new fuel injected Honda by a significantly greater margin than my old Nouvo MX could achieve over the older model Air Blade. I think fuel injection is overrated whereas displacement is not.

As far as chain driven technology, if it comes to winning races chains are no doubt the way to go as transmissions using them are lighter--therefore a given bike is faster and better handling with a chain than one using another type of drive system. But I'll tell you this. When I had first my 650 c.c. BMW R-65 and later my K-100 BMW KR I most definitely felt the drive shaft was the way to go and most definitely a step up from the Honda CB 350 and CB 450's I had before in nearly all departments. The drive shaft is very reliable and you just don't have to adjust or keep one oiled. I've noticed however that a lot of the new BMW models no longer use a drive shaft. Probably because they are expensive. But back then, they were the Cadillac.

[LivinLOS]

You have stated the Nouvo Elegance already has problems with a Honda Air Blade (a 110 c.c. fuel injection model. I have raced Air Blades several times with my old 115 c.c. Nouvo MX. Driver weight was a huge factor, the bike with the lightest driver assuming a meaningful weight difference winning handily. But given two drivers of nearly identical weight it was a dead heat all the way out to around 40 to 50 kilimeters per hour and then the Yamaha would start to pull away from the Honda.

The new Honda Airblade reputedly gets 15 % more fuel economy while getting better acceleration due to the new fuel injection system. Now let's assume it gets 15 % more power than the old un fuel injected Air Blade which I seriously doubt. But say it does as a best case scenario. The 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance is rated at 25 % greater horsepower than the 115 c.c. air cooled MX. And believe me, my new bike feels 25 % more powerful than my old one. So although I might like the idea of a more efficient fuel injected Air Blade for its improved fuel efficiency and possible improved acceleration and top end. I think the Nouvo Elegance would out accelerate the new fuel injected Honda by a significantly greater margin than my old Nouvo MX could achieve over the older model Air Blade. I think fuel injection is overrated whereas displacement is not.

I would tend to agree with this..

I tend to feel the airblades (and clicks) are often slightly quicker off the mark than the nuovos (old and new) but run out of top end lower too...

Always baffled me why theres not more of the larger 150 and so sized scooters.. Down on Langkawai / Penang you can get these larger faster full auto things, I think they were a 150cc, at a guess called a modena ?? or something.. Would think they would sell like hotcakes given how small all these mini scoots are for larger farangs.

[katabeachbum]

We v done really scientific tests off the mark (Karon Beach road) and up the hill (Kata towards After Beach Bar) with many autobikes and one wave 125. All drivers 100-110 kg.

Suzuki step carb and Airblade first off. Elegance 135cc winner. Suzuki 2nd. Elegance is even stronger up the hills with 60kg passenger than Nouvo MX with 15k on the clock without passenger.

If we did the test again today, I think Suzukis new injection engine could win. Espesially if it can take advantage 95 gas, as one poster claimed.

With Platinum and JRD out of business in LOS, and Hondas 65% and Yamahas 30% marketshare I think we have to keep dreaming for other brands 125-250cc scooters to come here for a while.

[LivinLOS]

Wish I could have seen it.. Nothing like grown (110kg.. very grown ) men drag racing scoots !!! in the name of science too !!

Remember the day the US navy was in town and this bunch of huge roided up marines were all in a group of about 20 on pink mios and other dinky scoots.. Would have made for a classic photo.

BTW not taking the piss too much.. At 110kg plus and a rider of anything thats outside the door when I fish the keys out the pot theres too much a case of glass houses and lobbed stones

Edited May 7, 2009 by LivinLOS

[Richard-BKK]

Just because it is called a Constant Variable Transmission (CVT), it will not state that all of the vehicle mentioned use the same technology.

What is used in the smaller automatic transmission scooters in Thailand is the most basic version, there are two V-belt pulleys that are split perpendicular to their axes of rotation, with a V-belt running between them. The gear ratio is changed by moving the two sections of one pulley closer together and the two sections of the other pulley farther apart.

Other CVT systems used in the more powerful vehicles are of different design, some use a Hydrostatic CVT, in which all power is transmitted by hydraulic fluid. This is one of the latest technologies. Some even use a Variable toothed wheel transmission, which I would not call a true CVT. Nissan uses roller-based CVT, which is again a complete different concept that what is used in our Thai V-belt scooters.... And Audi offered a chain-type CVT... The Honda Multi Matic is also not your everyday traditional pulley CVT....

The first DAF car using van Doorne's CVT, the DAF 600, was produced in 1958. Today the patent is in name of Van Doorne Transmissie B.V.

[katabeachbum]

Just because it is called a Constant Variable Transmission (CVT), it will not state that all of the vehicle mentioned use the same technology.

What is used in the smaller automatic transmission scooters in Thailand is the most basic version, there are two V-belt pulleys that are split perpendicular to their axes of rotation, with a V-belt running between them. The gear ratio is changed by moving the two sections of one pulley closer together and the two sections of the other pulley farther apart.

Other CVT systems used in the more powerful vehicles are of different design, some use a Hydrostatic CVT, in which all power is transmitted by hydraulic fluid. This is one of the latest technologies. Some even use a Variable toothed wheel transmission, which I would not call a true CVT. Nissan uses roller-based CVT, which is again a complete different concept that what is used in our Thai V-belt scooters.... And Audi offered a chain-type CVT... The Honda Multi Matic is also not your everyday traditional pulley CVT....

The first DAF car using van Doorne's CVT, the DAF 600, was produced in 1958. Today the patent is in name of Van Doorne Transmissie B.V.

All the manufactorers I mentioned from scooters to V6 luxury cars call them CVT. I dont really think they care if you dont consider them to be true CVT. Compared to Audis other automatic transmissions like hydraulic auto and dubbelclutch autos, this is CVT.

When was the first snowmobile with CVT? Looong before Daf.

[katabeachbum]

Wish I could have seen it.. Nothing like grown (110kg.. very grown ) men drag racing scoots !!! in the name of science too !!

Remember the day the US navy was in town and this bunch of huge roided up marines were all in a group of about 20 on pink mios and other dinky scoots.. Would have made for a classic photo.

BTW not taking the piss too much.. At 110kg plus and a rider of anything thats outside the door when I fish the keys out the pot theres too much a case of glass houses and lobbed stones

LivinLOS, in the name of science, come along next time. Need a suzuki injection. Only riders 100-110 kg

[LivinLOS]

I will bring the 112cc decade old 60,000km Kwaker cheer.. Get your game face on !!

Ohh and extra pies..

[katabeachbum]

I will bring the 112cc decade old 60,000km Kwaker cheer.. Get your game face on !!

Ohh and extra pies..

In the name of science, nobody gets to drive their own bike. Looser pays the beer

[Richard-BKK]

Hmm I belief we already past the point that the OP has already given up on the info. So I settle that the term CVT or Constant Variable Transmission is a width used term, in the same category as two-wheeler etc..

[dynabob]

For what it's worth.

In my four years living here only once have i seen a step-thru/twist and go refuse to start and that was a kwacker.

[Kimera]

For what it's worth.

In my four years living here only once have i seen a step-thru/twist and go refuse to start and that was a kwacker.

You should try a JRD

[Richard-BKK]

Yes JRD is a good choice, they have excellent service, you buy one and get two scooters. So if one has problems and is for some months at the dealer you can always use your second JRD scooter.

But serious, JRD is cheap, and all we have learned on this forum is "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR", and I have to be honest, for the price JRD scooters are not bad.

You can also look at Tiger, I belief they still have some 150cc Gmax scooters, this are scooters developed in partnership with Kymco. Top scooters, good quality, but then also not cheap...

[harrry]

I know you are asking about advice on motorbikes but the advise I have to give is keeping alive on a motorcycle,

Allways wear your helmet. True you may not be going fast and it is hot but could save brain surgery here and that is something I would notlike to have. Also always wear strong shoes. Preferably boots. As my orthopaedic surgeon told me after he cut off my leg they can fix bone no problem but when the blood vessels are messed up that is it.