Tsunami Victims Ready To Sue USA And Thailand

[meemiathai]

I do agree that things don't sound reasonable if there were indeed a Tsunami Department(which I didn't know until you told me). What do they do? Perhaps the preparation work had not been done well up to standard?

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

" We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't know what was going to happen"

No, that's not it either !!

the exact quote.....

“The very important factor in making the decision was that it’s high season and hotel rooms were nearly 100-per-cent full. If we issued a warning, which would have led to evacuation, [and if nothing happened], what would happen then?"

Any Prosecutor will tear that apart.

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Eye_Of_Sauron

[Thetyim]

Oh dear, Taksin will have to keep all the diaster relief funds in the bank now, just in case they are needed to pay any compensation

[meemiathai]

" We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't know what was going to happen"

Lets not speculate - i'll find the precise quote and post it on here.

I do not doubt you finding the exact quote. But I think we also have to understand the reason for not wanting to upset tourism was not knowing what was going to happen rather than tourism was more important than people's lives.

However if it is reckoned by experts at the end that they were very aware of the high possibility of a tsunami coming and had chose to bet on it, let them rot!

Anyway this is all just my guess from what I've heard.

Why do you keep saying that a tsunami might or might not have been coming ....or judging how likely or improbable it was....even when there was a tsunami, they still didn't do anything .

Well, I am not aware of what this is about. What happened?

[meemiathai]

Oh dear,  Taksin will have to keep all the diaster relief funds in the bank now, just in case they are needed to pay any compensation

Still the money goes to the right people, the victims of the tsunami.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

“The very important factor in making the decision was that it’s high season and hotel rooms were nearly 100-per-cent full. If we issued a warning, which would have led to evacuation, [and if nothing happened], what would happen then?"

He should have kept his mouth shut.

Was that the correct decision after one of the biggest quakes since human history began?

They made their call - they've now got to stand by it.

[britmaveric]

Hmmmm sue in a Thai Court???? Waste of time suing as I stated prior the only people that will making any dosh from this will be the lawyers.

[The_Moog]

They'll sue in their own home courts.

If they get judgment it can be enforced, - and if payment is not made, Thai assets held abroad will be targetted and liens put on them, bank accounts frozen and Garnishee Orders put on those.

Send in the bailiffs.

Pip Pip !

Edited February 17, 2005 by The_Moog

[amazing_29]

if an earthquake happens in the ocean of anythiing ovr 6.5 there will be a tsunami of potential great destruction. it is a proven fact. so yes volcanos, eatrthquakes can not be predicted but tsunami can be. but where it will head exactly may not be known but why would any government take the chance especially when it was 9.1. one of the greatest in recorded history.

Is that the case? Could you educate us more? How sure are you that the tsunami WAS going to hit Thailand, Sri lanka, India and Somali? Do the scientists know as much as you do?

Can anyone here tell me if there were indeed anyone in this world who knew for SURE an hour earlier that a tsunami was heading towards those countries? What did they do? If not, then who are we blaming? Blaming someone for a wrong decision? Can you guys honestly imagine yourselves being the ones to make decisions? What would you have done? Did they know the percentage of chance a tsunami was on its way?

Is there a consensus amongst world scientists that governments should evacuate people from the shores if an earthquake of certain degree occurs within certain distance?

I would say also sue the Somalian Govt for not issuing warnings to its citizens as I am quite sure they were aware of certain areas being hit by a tsunami a few hours ahead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

when an earthquake happens in the ocean the amount that one side of the ocean floor moves will translate into that high of a wave when it hits the shore or greater. and most probably from the magniute of quake known already they could of figured out just how big it would be. so for there to be a 10 metre tsunami the ocean floor on one side is now 10 metres higher than the other side. it was sure a tsunami would come although knowing exactly where can not as easily be known.

also to mention was that there was a story that someone in the geological dept wanted to give a warning but was refused permission to because to save tourism dollars or euros for you europeans. this is really no brainer any one with even a little bit of education of geology does know what happens when earthquakes happen in the ocean.

did you know that in i think the year was 1962 there was a tsunami in hilo, hawaii that there was a tsunami warning given and most people did head to higher ground. it had originated from a quake off the coast of japan. so why is that some 43 years before they had the common sense to warn pepole but the mental midgets of thailand did not? i think the answer is two part which seems to be how alot of things operate here. money is the most important thing for them (would not want to scare of tourist dollars) coupled with the fact that an awful lot of the thais and falanggs here have very little education. and if you dont believe this ask them to describe how the moon, earth, sun, solar system, etc, even very basically operate? or is a chicken a bird? not joking try it one day and you will see.

and sometime in the future could be tommorow could be in the about next 4000 years there will be a mega tsunami a height of at least 100 metres to hit the east coast of north america when one of the volcanic islands of the Canary island of La Palma (spanish). every city on the shore line will be destroyed to 20 km inward. they will have about 8 hours to evacuate. the cities of boston, miami, suburbs of new york and the like will be devasted. the geoliical evidence shows that when the one volaco that is still active (the other is extinct now) erupts an unbelieveblly large chunk of it will fall into the ocean diisplacing incredible volumes of water. but it is not known which eruption will be the one the triggers the large piece of it to collaspe into the ocean. and when that will happen. but geologists can tell from the geological past that this type of events have been happening all the time in the past. it is almost inconceivable how much damage this will cause. if i was living in miami, new york, etc, and i heard that the active volcano of la palma erupted i would be keeping a very close eye on the news. dont say i did not warn you.

[meemiathai]

Since

money is the most important thing for them (would not want to scare of tourist dollars) coupled with the fact that an awful lot of the thais and falanggs here have very little education. and if you dont believe this ask them to describe how the moon, earth, sun, solar system, etc, even very basically operate? or is a chicken a bird? not joking try it one day and you will see.

, why are the people still blaming them? You guys don't expect a monkey to fly a jet, do ya?

So on conclusion, can we say it's right to say "The Thai government knew a tsunami was on its way and thousands were going to die but decided not to do anything in order to save money."?

[meemiathai]

and sometime in the future could be tommorow could be in the about next 4000 years there will be a mega tsunami a height of at least 100 metres to hit the east coast of north america when one of the volcanic islands of the Canary island of La Palma (spanish). every city on the shore line will be destroyed to 20 km inward. they will have about 8 hours to evacuate. the cities of boston, miami, suburbs of new york and the like will be devasted. the geoliical evidence shows that when the one volaco that is still active (the other is extinct now) erupts an unbelieveblly large chunk of it will fall into the ocean diisplacing incredible volumes of water. but it is not known which eruption will be the one the triggers the large piece of it to collaspe into the ocean. and when that will happen. but geologists can tell from the geological past that this type of events have been happening all the time in the past. it is almost inconceivable how much damage this will cause. if i was living in miami, new york, etc, and i heard that the active volcano of la palma erupted i would be keeping a very close eye on the news. dont say i did not warn you.

Don't worry! WWIII will come first!

[thaibebop]

LOL...the sewers of all sewers "USA" are sewed......not that it is a good thing, but somewhere it is ok.....just to know for the dudes that they aren't ruling the world..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Picture this: A big middle finger!!

[omaga24]

I can't belive these people! Their f**ken stuped! The Hawaii based center did try to warn them but there were no systems in place so that they could warn them. And if thats what this law suit is really about I think there are better ways to go about it.

[Dickie]

Grief makes people do funny things. If the towers hadn't come down do you think so many Americans would have backed the Shrub's war against Saddam? When you're hit it's a natural response to lash out, regardless of the (lack of?) accuracy of your attack.

[Erwin1011]

Oh dear,  Taksin will have to keep all the diaster relief funds in the bank now, just in case they are needed to pay any compensation

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No,no... he'll put it in a cardboard box, so it's easier to find

[The_Moog]

The plaintiffs won't get anything out of USGS - as the information was published on their website well before the tsunami struck. I witnessed it myself.

Thai Government and Hotels do seem to have some fiduciary responsibilities to protect people on their propetry, and these admissions by the Thai Authorities don't help their case.

[Pseacraft]

snip:

when an earthquake happens in the ocean the amount that one side of the ocean floor moves will translate into that high of a wave when it hits the shore or greater. and most probably from the magniute of quake known already they could of figured out just how big it would be. so for there to be a 10 metre tsunami the ocean floor on one side is now 10 metres higher than the other side. it was sure a tsunami would come although knowing exactly where can not as easily be known.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your partially correct with your statement. You are correct in that the generation of a Tsunami by an undersea earthquake occurs by the vertical displacement of a slab of oceanic plate. This is a Thrust or more correctly a Dip-Slip Fault, as is/was the case here, however not all undersea earthquakes are of this type the StrikeSlip Fault is when the plates move or grate against each in the horizontal plain and do not result in the potential to generate a Tsunami. Other culprits are large volcanic islands, as you pointed out with La Palma, and undersea land slides (they can originate on shore as well) which could be triggered by numerous other events. The magnitude also doesn't always provide the details of the real size of the movement. It takes some time to perform the proper analysis to determine the estimate. The last report that I have seen indicates approximately 15 meters of vertical movement.

I do agree that the average Thai, and a staggering % of Westerners also, are ignorant about the workings of our planet. When I do some solar observing with my telescopes you wouldn't (probably would actually) beleive the comments I get. My went to a Math and Science Magnet school in LOS and she is always amazed at what she can see through my scopes.

I really don't think too many people would have heeded any kind of warning if one was given. It was mentioned back in December in the original thread that a few years ago a tsunami warning was issued and those few who evacuated were all scoffed at when they returned for being so stupid.

[The_Moog]

I really don't think too many people would have heeded any kind of warning if one was given

I think you're right there.

If people want to gamble, then thats up to them.

Unfortunately, the Government Department didn't provide them any choice in the matter, -

despite

1) People's tax bahts having paid for tsunami experts collecting a Government salary.

2) Their having admitted that there was a Warning process available if they deemed it necessary.

- so thats why the word 'sue' now appears atop this topic.

Edited February 18, 2005 by The_Moog

[Sphere]

Do not the usual "force majeure" clauses apply in this case? After all this was a natural disaster. If 15 people sue for damages, what about the million others?

[The_Moog]

"force majeure" clauses

In what documents - there's no mention of such clauses in my tax returns, or my hotel booking forms. So I can sue the Government or Hotel and not be thwarted by that defence.

To be bound by Force Majeure, you need to have an executed document showing it, it cannot be implied.

Do you mean in Insurance Contracts?

Ok in Insurance contracts, we're not talking about the Buildings Insurance (which may have Acts of God exclusions, though I doubt it, else whats the point of insuring,- in Florida Insurers had to pay didn't they?)

We're talking 'Public Liability Insurance', that means you had a duty of care, and neglected to fulfil it.

Remember, its a Civil Case, so there is no burden of 'proof' like a criminal case, just on the basis of reasonable certainty. OJ got nailed on his Civil and acquitted on the Criminal

Edited February 18, 2005 by The_Moog

[Sphere]

Who's OJ?

[Sphere]

I appreciate your points Mooq. But going by that logic, if lightning strikes me during a thunder storm, I could sue the government for not sending me an SMS warning about the possibility of lightning during a storm. Same would apply to floods after rains too, would it?

Edited February 18, 2005 by Sphere

[yuyi]

Some people here seem to confuse the earthquake (with the following tsunami) and the warning about it (or any activity trying to reduce the amount of people in the danger zone).

You can say that the earthquake was an act of god / act of mother nature / force majeure.

But can you say that the decision to NOT issue a warning was an act of god / act of mother nature / force majeure.?

Of course not. Someone didn't do his job, or someone didn't want to get hammered on the head by Toxin & Co in case of the tsunami not coming. The direction was given to not disturb tourism and business with a warning, not again.

To say that it was an act of god / act of mother nature / force majeure that some people and organizations f**cked up by deciding to not issue a warning, not even try to warn, is BS, nothing but BS.

Nobody is attacking anyone for the fact that there was a tsunami.

But the question gets asked why there was no warning. Especially now, after it is clear that there was enough data known to justify a warning and enough time to save some lifes.

And then there are some saying that a warning would not have helped, the people would have ignored it. Come on guys, do you really mean that? There are people which take warnings serious. There are people who left Samui recently when there was a taifun warning, even long before the tsunami. Some people would have listened, and some lifes would have been saved, there is no doubt about that. Do you really want to tell to them "sorry guys, I thought no one would listen to a warning, thus I didn't warn you."

If you know that someone is in danger, and you decide to not warn them, then you have to accept responsibily for your decision. You have to accept that you will get asked "Why did you let them get in danger, and killed, without warning them? You knew that this could happen, why didn't you say something"

I personally think that even saving 1 life would have been worth the effort of trying to warn. If you disagree, why don't you imagine explaining that disagreement to the possibly saved victims, and their families and friends.

[The_Moog]

Legally, individuals have a certain duty to look after themselves.

If you put yourself in mortal jeopardy, - climb over the barriers to have a closer look into the abyss, then fall off, - then thats your fault - providing there was a sign on the barrier saying. 'Danger Abyss'

If there was just a barrier with no sign - its harder to say.

Thai Authorities are doing themselves no favours by saying that they knew of the severity of the quake and they could have Warned , but that an important factor was that rooms were 100% full.

The a real wave hit down south - and yet there was still no warning on television telling the people living further North to run upstairs.

It doesn't look good for the Defence Case. I realize it seems like 'rough justice', but thats the way these things work.

[RDN]

Who's OJ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look here http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&...22+&btnG=Search

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

But can you say that the decision to NOT issue a warning was an act of god / act of mother nature / force majeure.?

bingo ! Thats precisely it.

God did his bit.

The Thai Meterological Department did their bit.

Two cases...

A different and separate case against both, but we have no forwarding address to serve the former with the legal paperwork, unlike the Thai authorities.

[chico]

anyone think, this is going to be the only such case?

or the lawyers are austrian or german??

in austria and germany, you have to advance money to the lawyer in such a case, but if you read f.e.:

John Grisham "the king of torts"

then you know, where the lawyers come from, and why they sue in the states!

there will be another few cases collected in sweden, Uk, aussie, and then they lawyers will sit together and look, in which court to file, to have a judge favorable to the case!

and some more lawyers by a private jet, yacht...

[meemiathai]

Stupidity is really one of the things in this world I have to put up with!

So many people are so good at talking about BS when things have occurred!

Just wait and see how you guys react when it is time for you to decide something like that!

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Stupidity is really one of the things in this world I have to put up with!

Well you did say that your ultimate boss is Tung Chee Hwa !

So many people are so good at talking about BS when things have occurred!

Just wait and see how you guys react when it is time for you to decide something like that.

Please please don't become a Defence Attorney with mitigations like that ! Else all your clients will end up in Victoria Prison !

[meemiathai]

You can't call him stupid coz he doesn't even have a brain!

I've asked quite a few questions here which if being answered would've made things quite clear. But none!!

Everyone just keeps on yelling why they did not warn.........

I think I've made quite a few points here but seemed not to have gone into anyone's ears. Respond to them at least telling me I was wrong or whatever! Or is it that you guys just can't disagree with me and just chose to ignore??