Hostility Towards Farang Women?

[Sir Burr]

You're right. I'm not a brave knight. My name is just a play on words.

[Boo]

I would proceed with caution when asking any thai men out for an innocent drink, that is considered very forward for most decent thai men & they would more than likely get the impression that you liked them. If you are part of a group then no problem but just bear in mind that this is a different country & culture & what is considered completly innocent & normal in your own country could be considered forward & cause you some problems if a misunderstanding occured. That said, there are quite a lot of thai man farang women couples around who are very happy (I'm one) & seem to have less of the trouble than some of the guys here talk about with a thai partner. Just remeber though that not all thai people are great & have your best interests at heart & to keep your wits about you, as my hubby says, farang will never know what thoughts are going on in the mind of someone behind that famous thai smile that we all love so much

[Vit42]

Do farang women often date Thai men?

Will I be misinterpreted if I invite people for a friendly cup of coffee?

Those are some interesting questions I'd also like to know the answer to. As far as I know, Thai men can spend time with any members of the opposite sex without eliciting any naughty assumption. This is not the case with Thai females, sadly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a thai man, i have no bias against dating women of any ethnicity. In fact i've had very excellent relationships with women from canada, germany, spain, england, france, and lot's of american women. When i say excellent, i mean that i am still good friends with many of them.

I'm not sure how often farang women date thai men but why not? Just a piece of advice though. Thai men are infamous for not being very faithful! Most of my thai male friends all have more than one girlfriend. And it doesn't stop them, even if they are married. This has existed for generations. My father, and many of my friend's father's also cheated on their wives. No, that's not to say that all thai men behave badly. Just don't be gullible and "protect" yourself!!!

[brookieamer]

I understand what your saying about it being harder for western men to find love later in life, it's also a problem for western women too except they don't have a LOS to come to But I agree that as people get older (particually women) they tend to get set in their ways & have a different outlook on life. Nearly every women of my mother generation that I know of is only interested in their homes & grandchildren, my mum is in love with her home & garden as she grew up in dire poverty & has had to work hard as a single mum to have the life she has now. Her house if worth 3/4 million pounds but she drives a 2nd hand car, shops in charity shops - very popular in the UK & doesnt smoke or drink her whole life, but for her a home is the most important thing in life as her childhood was shocking in it's neglegt, she broke that cycle with my sister & I & dotes on her grandaughter & is very happy with her life. But some people, like yourself don't want that kind of life & have to do what you can to live the life you want. After all we only get one shot, so hopefully things will work out with your lady in the north & if it doesn't there are a few lovely ladies in their 40's in my hubbies home town who have expressed an interest in a western husband

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this stereotyping is nothing but negative, the sooner people stop generalising the better. people are individuals and should be treated as such. The idea that one set of women is somehow better or worse for some purpose is a load of old rubbish. Not enough choice in the States out of 80 million women? Cant find a european woman out God knows how many? We all come to Thailand for different reasons its may be there are physical differences, cultural differences are way too subtle anyway to understand let alone generalise about. I am not saying that its true of the original poster...but it is true that the majority of negative posters about western women are sad old losers who couldn't pull a decent woman as the only survivor of a post holocaust world where every other man was killed by a mutant plague. That is to say their only hope is to pay for company and someone to put up with their world view of an assembly line of mass produced asian women for the use of jaded and dull western failures. Build a relationship, accept you don't know anything and start from there. You might be pleasantly surprised that guess what, women are different the world over it's what is called character and personality, but then if what your after is a oriental stepford wife go work your male fantasies elsewhere

[chonabot]

I understand what your saying about it being harder for western men to find love later in life, it's also a problem for western women too except they don't have a LOS to come to But I agree that as people get older (particually women) they tend to get set in their ways & have a different outlook on life. Nearly every women of my mother generation that I know of is only interested in their homes & grandchildren, my mum is in love with her home & garden as she grew up in dire poverty & has had to work hard as a single mum to have the life she has now. Her house if worth 3/4 million pounds but she drives a 2nd hand car, shops in charity shops - very popular in the UK & doesnt smoke or drink her whole life, but for her a home is the most important thing in life as her childhood was shocking in it's neglegt, she broke that cycle with my sister & I & dotes on her grandaughter & is very happy with her life. But some people, like yourself don't want that kind of life & have to do what you can to live the life you want. After all we only get one shot, so hopefully things will work out with your lady in the north & if it doesn't there are a few lovely ladies in their 40's in my hubbies home town who have expressed an interest in a western husband

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All this stereotyping is nothing but negative, the sooner people stop generalising the better. people are individuals and should be treated as such. The idea that one set of women is somehow better or worse for some purpose is a load of old rubbish. Not enough choice in the States out of 80 million women? Cant find a european woman out God knows how many? We all come to Thailand for different reasons its may be there are physical differences, cultural differences are way too subtle anyway to understand let alone generalise about. I am not saying that its true of the original poster...but it is true that the majority of negative posters about western women are sad old losers who couldn't pull a decent woman as the only survivor of a post holocaust world where every other man was killed by a mutant plague. That is to say their only hope is to pay for company and someone to put up with their world view of an assembly line of mass produced asian women for the use of jaded and dull western failures. Build a relationship, accept you don't know anything and start from there. You might be pleasantly surprised that guess what, women are different the world over it's what is called character and personality, but then if what your after is a oriental stepford wife go work your male fantasies elsewhere

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An amusing post that started well but balooned into another "Stereotype/Generalising" pile of claptrap.

Exactly to whom are you offering this sage bit of advice?

I ask because the quote you have inserted is from a Western Lady to another....

[Boon Mee]

Baba Yaga. Hmmmmm........ wasn't Baba Yaga an evil child-eating Russian witch that lived in a house that walked on chicken legs?

You're confusing that BabaYaya with Barbara Walters, that dried-up old prune of a newscaster in America.

[solodennis]

...lord save us from those who cannot read the real truth of what is said here...

[Sir Burr]

Baba Yaga. Hmmmmm........ wasn't Baba Yaga an evil child-eating Russian witch that lived in a house that walked on chicken legs?

You're confusing that BabaYaya with Barbara Walters, that dried-up old prune of a newscaster in America.

Nice one! Nancy Reagan?

[LadyinRed]

I am farang here, but am Asian.

My other farang friends don't call me Asian - they said I still think/ behalf like a farang (western/ white/ whatever) woman.

[Boo]

Hmm I think brookieamer got lost a bit there. I am a women from England & as I said, every women I KNOW of my mother generation wants the same things in life, home, family & few thrills & excitements, I didn't say that was all women & I made an observation that women tend to be more static with the pull of family & grandchildren making them less likely to go off on a wander. But you sure did. Can you spell hypocrite. You can't talk about people generalising about western women & then use the oldest ones in the books for western men in LOS.

[sbaker8688]

I am a western (American) male, and am in the process of moving to Thailand right now. The actual reason I am moving to Thailand is because, personally, I do not want a western woman. So I am relocating to where I can easily find acceptable women. It has nothing to do with the mindless f-doll reference you made. Rather a whole host of other things. But in general, I find that western women have a deep down hostility against men, they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual, and they do not appreaciate you as a man. The overwhelming number of American men (and probably western men in general) do not know there is a difference, because they have never traveled overseas or come into contact with a non-western woman. But for those that do - there is no going back.

What I am saying is easily born out by another observation: Most men around the world reject western women as suitable mates - particularly American women. While all women around the world love western men - particulary American men. This says that the problem isn't with "cheuvenist a-holes" or "moronic pigs" but with western women. Nobody wants a western woman, except those who are stuck with them and have no other place to go. But I do have some other place to go, and the means to make it happen.

The problem is feminism. Feminism teaches women to hate men. Feminism did not occur in the east, only in the west. Therefore you can still find desirable women in eastern places (asia, eastern europe, Russia, etc.) but not in the west. I would also be willing to go to the Ukraine for instance, as my friend is there and is not coming back home because he loves the women there too much. But I am already familiar with Thailand, so I feel more comfortable moving there, and feel I can "hit the ground running" so to speak.

By the way, I mean no insult or disrespect towards you or any other woman. I'm a live and let live kinda guy. And this isn't personal. For all I know you may be the greatest girl since sliced bread. You asked a question, and I am simply answering it in the most honest and straightforward fashion I can. Perhaps it will give you some other "inside" perspective at any rate, or at least a different one. Bottom line - from what I have read and experienced, you will not have good luck with expat men in Thailand if you are seeking romance. You will also most likely have little luck with Thai men. But I seriously doubt you will encounter any of the "open hostility" that you mentioned. You certainly will find no hostility, open or otherwise, from me.

Either way, I wish you good luck in all your endeavors.

[toastwars]

I find that western women have a deep down hostility against men, they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual, and they do not appreaciate you as a man. .

.

Most men around the world reject western women as suitable mates

.

You are in for a rude awakening, Thai ladys are very difficult to please, frequently act in the most bizzare ways. Your experiences of Thai women judging by your poular misconceptions are of bar girls. I for one live here and have a partner back home in the UK, I am faithful and although I find Thai girls astheticly pleasing, cannot find it within myself to want one as a partner. I have many Thai friends both male and female, I am involved in their lives on a daily basis. I find some of therir idiosycracys frankly baffling. I have seen falang and Thai relationships begin and end, I am often asked for advice but it is beyond me to give it. From what I see girls from decent families are difficult to get to know, follow strange courting rituals and I asure you that you will come second place to family, work, friends...you are labouring under false hopes, I suggest you try living here for some time before relocating.

Edited March 7, 2005 by toastwars

[Boo]

sbaker8688, you say you mean no disrespect but then post the biggest load of drivel that I have read in a long time. If you knew what feminism really meant instead of what you have decided it means you wouldn't have post that claptrap. Feminism is the pursuit of equal rights for women. If that means that a women has to compete with a man to get it then so be it but sorry if your ego can't handle it but that is the way it is. Men have set up laws & barriers to keep women down & modern women today break those barriers for the betterment of the future generations.

If you prefer asian women then that is entirely your choice but using the sad old exhuausted excuses that you have as well as some incredably ridiculous ones, just shows me that you deluded into thinking that thailand & her women are some kind of nirvana. Sorry to tell you but feminism exists in thailand as much as anywhere else, that thai women want what western women have, the same rights & freedom of speech & many of them are out for what they can get & will not appriciate you as a man either. This is because they are sick & tired of people telling them how they should be & act & have decided to pursue their careers & hold out for someone with more enlighted views, who will treat them as equal & show them respect instead of being expected to give it without any in return. Maybe instead of slagging off the women in your own country you should look at yourself & see why these women treated you so bad, I never believe one side of a story & it takes two to tango, so I doubt if you are as faultless as you think you are & wonder how your going to meet the kind of women anywhere that meets your obviously high standards.

[sbaker8688]

You are in for a rude awakening, Thai ladys are very difficult to please, frequently act in the most bizzare ways. Your experiences of Thai women judging by your poular misconceptions are of bar girls. I for one live here and have a partner back home in the UK, I am faithful and although I find Thai girls astheticly pleasing, cannot find it within myself to want one as a partner. I have many Thai friends both male and female, I am involved in their lives on a daily basis. I find some of therir idiosycracys frankly baffling. I have seen falang and Thai relationships begin and end, I am often asked for advice but it is beyond me to give it. From what I see girls from decent families are difficult to get to know, follow strange courting rituals and I asure you that you will come second place to family, work, friends...you are labouring under false hopes, I suggest you try living here for some time before relocating.

Thanks for the great advice, but believe me I have it all figured out. I have actually lived in Thailand in small spurts (3 months here, 6 months there, etc). Most recently from August 2004 - November 2004. By the way, I've had little contact with bar girls, although I've met a few.

Hope this doesn't step on this chick's thread too much.

Edited March 7, 2005 by sbaker8688

[toastwars]

Thanks for the great advice, but believe me I have it all figured out. I have actually lived in Thailand in small spurts (3 months here, 6 months there, etc). Most recently from August 2004 - November 2004. By the way, I've had little contact with bar girls, although I've met a few.

Hope this doesn't step on this chick's thread too much.

Alll figured out, I have heard that a million times before, don't worry Boo this one will be on his way back penniless and bitter pretty quickly

Edited March 7, 2005 by toastwars

[Boo]

I really hope he isn't toast, I hope he finds what he's looking for.

[Shola]

I am a western (American) male, and am in the process of moving to Thailand right now.  The actual reason I am moving to Thailand is because, personally, I do not want a western woman.  So I am relocating to where I can easily find acceptable women.  It has nothing to do with the mindless f-doll reference you made.  Rather a whole host of other things.  But in general, I find that western women have a deep down hostility against men, they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual, and they do not appreaciate you as a man.  The overwhelming number of American men (and probably western men in general) do not know there is a difference, because they have never traveled overseas or come into contact with a non-western woman.  But for those that do - there is no going back.

What I am saying is easily born out by another observation:  Most men around the world reject western women as suitable mates - particularly American women.  While all women around the world love western men - particulary American men.  This says that the problem isn't with "cheuvenist a-holes" or "moronic pigs" but with western women.  Nobody wants a western woman, except those who are stuck with them and have no other place to go.  But I do have some other place to go, and the means to make it happen.

The problem is feminism.  Feminism teaches women to hate men.  Feminism did not occur in the east, only in the west.  Therefore you can still find desirable women in eastern places (asia, eastern europe, Russia, etc.) but not in the west.  I would also be willing to go to the Ukraine for instance, as my friend is there and is not coming back home because he loves the women there too much.  But I am already familiar with Thailand, so I feel more comfortable moving there, and feel I can "hit the ground running" so to speak.

By the way, I mean no insult or disrespect towards you or any other woman.  I'm a live and let live kinda guy.  And this isn't personal.  For all I know you may be the greatest girl since sliced bread.  You asked a question, and I am simply answering it in the most honest and straightforward fashion I can.  Perhaps it will give you some other "inside" perspective at any rate, or at least a different one.  Bottom line - from what I have read and experienced, you will not have good luck with expat men in Thailand if you are seeking romance.  You will also most likely have little luck with Thai men.  But I seriously doubt you will encounter any of the "open hostility" that you mentioned.  You certainly will find no hostility, open or otherwise, from me.

Either way, I wish you good luck in all your endeavors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahem, sbaker, I certainly find your post disrespectfull toward western women, being one myself.

Also blatently contradictive, as highlighted above.

As for western gals being frequently bisexual, &lt;deleted&gt;? Perhaps your relying on your own personal experiences too much rather than looking at western women in general.

Also that the only reason a guy would be with a western woman is becuase he couldn't get an eastern one is utter BS, again perhaps just your jaded/biased opinion rather than the reality of most happy western couples.

FYI if you think a Thai woman will be easier to please than a western one, your in for a bit of a shock mate!

[sbk]

All figured out?? After a few months here and there?

I have lived here for 16 years and I am still figuring it out. If that is the same attitude that you apply to women, no wonder you have trouble pulling a decent girl back home!

And somebody forgot to tell my Thai husband that he is in the wrong game, since, as a farang woman, I must be a selfish psycho bisexual, he must be feeling really gypped after 15 years of marriage!

[alaina]

But in general, I find that western women have a deep down hostility against men, they have attitude, they are impossible to please, they are only out for themselves, they frequently have multiple mental, psychological, and other disorders, they are frequently bisexual

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you may be in for a few surprises on this one. Especially on the sexuality issue. MANY of my Thai female friends have not been exclusively with men, they just don't identify as bisexual the same way as western women do.

But, I do hope you find the right person for you and treat her well, no sarcasm intended.

[britmaveric]

I'd have to agree with Toasty - I think thai women are hard to figure out - once you think you sussed it out - direct opposite occurs. I love me gf, but she can be a bloody mystery at times.

Women are women all over the world - don't buy this western women are feminist drivel therefore I can't have a relationship. There is absolutely nothing wrong with western women - perhaps its time to look in the mirror before you make whole sale generalizations.

[Insight]

I'd have to agree with Toasty - I think thai women are hard to figure out - once you think you sussed it out - direct opposite occurs. I love me gf, but she can be a bloody mystery at times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, have to agree. I am in a very satisfying relationship right now, but it was a very long and strange road to get there. And in the few upsets there's been, it can be like an emotional WMD going off over (what seems to me to be) some of the most simplest of things.

Life ain't easy at times, but that's a fact everybody has to get used to at some point.

[aaaaaa]

seems like even though BY said she didn't want it to be feminism rant, it slides into subject at least about feminism, if not a rant itself.

If you knew what feminism really meant instead of what you have decided it means you wouldn't have post that claptrap. Feminism is the pursuit of equal rights for women.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if I may, Boo...

the thing is, this term has being misuses, confused and abused a lot nowdays. it is not realy his fault. although you are right about its original meaning and purpose, feminism (as many other terms) nowdays acquired many other different meanings and forms / subtypes and been associated with negative thigs as well. what he mentioned as hate of men in general - is just one of many forms of feminism, called radical feminism ....

but few facts he's mentioned are not a drivel. like the difference in attitudes and style of women in West and East Europe for example.

but then, this whole subject will lead to much bigger one - the reasons of and need for feminism, debate from both sides (or many other sides as well)... one thins I can agree with: modern world is dominated by male energy and whatever else... one thing I won't agree with - that women try to counteract it with same or similar means or in the same ways / methods as males would do - agressive etc. it would contradict the intent, and very nature of original idea. and would be, if not became, the well disgused "male" trap .... so, I feel what he has expressed is somewhat a sign of such dissapointment with feminism going to far -perhaps into that "male" trap - that feminism instead of making females respected and accepted equally etc and help them to become feminine (well, at least these two words have the same root ) - instead has more tendency to make them more masculine ! that is the trap I was talking about ....

some realy fiar people warned that feminism is used by unscrupulous men for exploting women more - particularly sexually. like these "free love" thing which became most prominent in the West in 60s as I recall ... so, feminism would suggest: "why men can have sexual affairs with whoever / how many they want and like - and women can't ? injustice ! let's get equal rights! let's have same !" and actually it ends up in... men having more chances to have sex with more "free" / "independent" / "with equal rights" women then before feminism started ... simply cheating - or as I said, a trap ! because eventually - man makes woman pregnant and can walk away if he is irresponsible - and woman is the one who will bear child and all the things related to rasing child ALONE .... or - do abortion.... etc. etc. many other social, political, economical and other issues come from that....

so, with al due rspect and support for yours and others women for equal position and rights etc, I think the following statement is an evidence of such trap at work :

"If that means that a women has to compete with a man to get it then so be "

that's the men want you to do - to compete with them ! cz obviously you'll loose ! because women can't be entirely and absolutely independent - nature or God or who- / whatever made such arrangements: women can't concieve without man for example (well, yeah modern medicine allows sperm donors - but then again it was taken from some man; and adoption - same here ; cloning , although not aproved yet by humanity - again, genes would be taken from a peson normaly concieved normally from some man's sperm; etc etc) .... Men have their role, women - their. it is not an answer in competition of genders. man can't compete with woman in motherhood, woman can't in begeting children. etc. etc. they should simply play their own role properly and respected and treasured for that accordingly ....

as for

"Men have set up laws & barriers to keep women down & modern women today break those barriers for the betterment of the future generations."

although it realy depends in different cultures and histories, you are mostly right. however - I'd suggest again that women not let themselves become masculine and men-like - otherwise very is a garantee that in suchcompetition they'll win and .... overtake men in their own ways and style, and start to mistreat fellow women or even men instead ? the verythings they were against and opposite to ? the balance which feminism originally intended to re-establish would rather go into unbalance - some other extreme.

I think yes, women should fight for proper treatment and equal rights BUT thru some other men, who are not chouvenists / sexists / "moronic pigs" etc. I am sure there are enough such. otherwise sooner or later it'd go into such other polar extreme ...

last thing I'd like to say - that I hope my post won't be MISunderstood ....

[Boo]

aaaa, I agree with your points but just to clarify, when I said compete with men, I was talking specifically about rights & in business. I love men, am married to a great one & count many as very good & close friends. I am also a very strong business women & a natural leader which makes me successful in my work, I won't hide that part of me in case a man doesn't like it as it would affect my career & future. And if someone didn't like the fact that I was a women living how I do then that is something they would have to deal with themselves as it is their problem not mine It doens't make me any less of a woman, I think it makes me a woman without fear of discrimnation as I am willing to fight for what I beleive in & want:rolleyes:

Your points weren't misunderstood at all & thanks for making them

[aaaaaa]

It doens't make me any less of a woman, I think it makes me a woman without fear of discrimnation as I am willing to fight for what I beleive in & want:rolleyes:

Your points weren't misunderstood at all & thanks for making them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, that's what I mean. such feminism is encouragable - if it makes woman more feminine in true sense.

and I beileve you are quite feminine - at least on your avatar ! I remember somebody b4 complimented you for it - I second it. cool and cute ! and thanks for being fair and straightforward ....

[BabaYaga]

Wow, what an interesting dicussion this has become! I hope no one is inordinately annoyed, it wasn't my intention. Thanks everyone for staying so respectful!

While we're on the subject: I've noticed too that the term feminist has been subverted, but I have to say that most of the people who use it to defame others are not ultra-feminazis (athough there's no denying that these certainly do exist!), but more often men who are threatened by 'feminism'. And the argument I've heard against feminism most often runs along the lines aaaaaa so nicely put it, that there is a danger of feminists becoming too masculine and ultimately mistreating men in the exact way that women have been mistreated.

i understand that aaaaa did not intend to imply that because of this concern, we should abandon all our efforts to provide equal opportunities and respect to both genders, but I have heard just such anti-feminist arguments in the past. It just never made sense to me that we should consciously oppress one half of our population out of fear that one day, years down the line, they might subject the other half to the same sort of oppression.

I also assume that aaaaa did not mean to imply that women will never be independent simply because they need sperm to procreate, because i'm sure he realizes that many women chose to remain childless, just as many men chose to have children - and have no choice but to rely on women for that.

But I do disagree that women should only further the cause of their own equality through men. The basic point of feminism is that women are capable of doing most anything themselves (except peeing standing up! ), and that includes speaking for ourselves. But thank you aaaaa, for bringing up those points, I hope I understood you! I wasn't offended, and I hope you also understand what I'm trying to say!

*whew* Incidentally, I don't intend to date anyone in Thailand (if I can help myself!) I recently spent a year in Mozambique, and I didn't date anyone there either, for many of the same reasons I've been warned about here. But I know there are wonderful people everywhere, and certainly on this forum!

[sbaker8688]

I have stayed out of the fire and vitriol hurled my way by the forum women up to this point. Addressing it would largely have no point, and it would merely be participating in a flame war or pissing contest.

But I can't help but point out that the very responses I got, and attitutes that were displayed by those responses, make my point for me: Western women have serious underlying (######, maybe a better term would be "overlying" LOL) issues with men. It's always there, either under the surface or even above it, and it's easy to detect. And I don't like it. I find it oppressive. Which means I don't want a woman like that to be my girlfriend, wife, or the mother of my kids.

If a girl feels the need to stand up and beat her breast and shout things like "men have created laws and a system where they systematically surpress women and keep us down!" (said somewhere on this thread, more or less) then, regardless of the truth or falsity of that statement (I don't plan on opening that can of worms, ha ha), she has issues with men! I don't want to be with a woman who is always paranoid that men are trying to "hold her down," or worse - hates men for trying to "hold her down." It comes through, continuously, in their attitudes, in their "in your face-ness," in the way they act around you and towards you, in the way that they treat you as a man, etc. They are always on the defensive about some "oppression" you are about to throw their way. They are always making sure that they don't "do too much" for their evil male partner, who may have designs on repressing, oppressing, and/or surpressing them and keeping them "in her place."

I can't count the number of times I've heard the following statement from women in America: "I don't need a *man* for *anything*!" That statement is always unprovoked. It's always said as some kind of a combination of boast, and threat. And every single time I've asked "How would you like it if everywhere you went, every single day, you always heard men saying 'I don't need a *woman* for *anything*!' " I always get the same response: "I wouldn't believe it!" always accompanied by a laugh. My mother has said it. My girlfriends have said it. My female friends have said it. Ad nauseum. It blew me away when one female friend - Evonne - finally admitted to me "okay, if I heard that it would hurt my feelings." Well, if a girl "doesn't need a *man* for *anything*" then great - I don't need her either, and I will go elsewhere! I want a girl who *does* need me! Not one that doesn't, and is prepared to let me know that verbally, every day, for the rest of my life!

You can't deny that this is hostility. Period. Anyway you slice it. And I don't care whether you say you have a "right" to be hostile. That's another debate. I just care that it is hostility. Sometimes under the surface, sometimes overt. Ever-present. Always there. Always lurking. Personally, "where's the love?" I don't see it. So if I can choose to be with a girl who has all of this baggage and hate and hostility and chip-on-the-shoulder 'in your face-ness," or if I can choose to be with a girl with none of that, the choice is easy. I choose "none of that."

Some have said that Thai women aren't all they are cracked up to be either. One forum girl even went as far as to say that they are feminists as well, or want to be. Well certainly, while America has a trade deficit in anything and everything else, the one thing it doesn't have a deficit in is exporting it's pop-culture and values. And certainly America is trying to export feminism and other harmful values as quickly and in as large of quantities as possible. And certainly, western women *hate* the idea of other women existing who are not feminists like themselves, and actively work to convert as many to "their side" as they possibly can. It's one reason why I have told my friends never to bring an eastern woman back to the states to marry, or if you do, you must keep her away from all other local women as much as possible. They will ruin your girl, and will relish and take great delight in doing it. Guys, have you ever overheard some of these expat chicks having coffee in the next booth with a Thai chick? Boy, if you haven't, you're really missing out, ha ha. Better be glad that isn't *your* girlfried they are talking to. Or... maybe it is! But having said all of that, Thailand is not nearly as westernized as, well, the west, and it is still easy, relatively speaking, to find a girl that does not have feminist values there. Or if she has them, she doesn't have them nearly to the degree that American women do. Japan? No. As bad as America. But Thailand? Yes. Still a good place.

When and if Thailand does go to the pits, and completely embraces destructive cultural values like feminism, there will still be other places. Sure - one day there may not be any place. But by the time that happens, I'll be dead.

Why don't you go back and re-read some of your posts, ladies? Be honest. Do you see any hostility there? Do you see any attitude? Any in-your-faceness? Any chip on the shoulder? Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you in any way. I don't have the time or inclination. In fact, I'm not even advocating that you change. Be who you want to be. I'm serious. As I said before, I'm easy going and "live and let live." And I said that no girl will get any hostility from me. My only point is, I don't need that or want that in a girl. I want someone who respects, adores, trusts, loves, and admires me, and I want someone who wants to do anything and everything for me, simply because she loves me. And I will gladly reciprocate. You can't have that with a man-hating feminist, forever paranoid about male cheuvenism, and who always feels the need to puff her chest up and beat upon her chest with her fists and "fight male cheuvenism" anywhere and everywhere she can "find" it. You can't have that with a girl who is always trying to prove to everyone, including herself, and including *you*, that she can't be or won't be "kept down." You can't have that with a girl who feels the need to constantly remind you that she doesn't need you - a man - for *anything*.

Please - be as western and as feminist as you want, if that's what you are. More power to you. I honestly do not care. ######, we can even drink a beer sometime for all I care, provided I don't have to listen to too much hostility. I'm simply saying it's not my taste as far as a girlfriend/wife. Maybe you don't like short guys. I don't like women with hostility towards me or my sex. Everyone has their taste.

Oh, people keep bringing up things like making money at work, or getting promoted at their jobs, blah blah. That's fine and great. More power to you. In fact, if I marry a Thai girl (or any girl for that matter), I hope that she makes us all the money that she can.

Now go ahead and flame away. I will hold nothing against you, regardless. Great thing about forums, I suppose. The worst that happens is a flame. No broken bones, ha ha.

[Boon Mee]

I can't count the number of times I've heard the following statement from women in America:  "I don't need a *man* for *anything*!"  That statement is always unprovoked.  It's always said as some kind of a combination of boast, and threat.  And every single time I've asked "How would you like it if everywhere you went, every single day, you always heard men saying 'I don't need a *woman* for *anything*!' "  I always get the same response:  "I wouldn't believe it!" always accompanied by a laugh.  My mother has said it.  My girlfriends have said it.  My female friends have said it.  Ad nauseum.  It blew me away when one female friend - Evonne - finally admitted to me "okay, if I heard that it would hurt my feelings."  Well, if a girl "doesn't need a *man* for *anything*" then great - I don't need her either, and I will go elsewhere!  I want a girl who *does* need me!  Not one that doesn't, and is prepared to let me know that verbally, every day, for the rest of my life!

You can't deny that this is hostility.  Period. 

Right on, sbaker!

They're just in denial is all.

I don't hate American or western women - he11, my mother and grandmother were one's but the "modern" material-girl ain't the same.

Forget about traditional values etc.

Now girls, y'all got two of us to flame-away at!

[Darknight]

I can't count the number of times I've heard the following statement from women in America:  "I don't need a *man* for *anything*!"  That statement is always unprovoked.  It's always said as some kind of a combination of boast, and threat.  And every single time I've asked "How would you like it if everywhere you went, every single day, you always heard men saying 'I don't need a *woman* for *anything*!' "  I always get the same response:  "I wouldn't believe it!" always accompanied by a laugh.  My mother has said it.  My girlfriends have said it.  My female friends have said it.  Ad nauseum.  It blew me away when one female friend - Evonne - finally admitted to me "okay, if I heard that it would hurt my feelings."  Well, if a girl "doesn't need a *man* for *anything*" then great - I don't need her either, and I will go elsewhere!  I want a girl who *does* need me!  Not one that doesn't, and is prepared to let me know that verbally, every day, for the rest of my life!

You can't deny that this is hostility.  Period. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right on, sbaker!

They're just in denial is all.

I don't hate American or western women - he11, my mother and grandmother were one's but the "modern" material-girl ain't the same.

Forget about traditional values etc.

Now girls, y'all got two of us to flame-away at!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Carefull boon , it's international womens day today. they have the advantage

[Shola]

Well you've made it clear on what kind of woman your looking for sbaker, and I'm sure that yes you will have more luck finding that kind of girl in Thailand.

Saying that I stand by my OP, which has nothing to with 'feminism' but if someone rubs you the wrong way you react, it's as simple as that, and I don't agree with alot of what you've said.

Fair dues to the woman who will sit quite and not state her opinion when she dissagrees with something. Personally I like to speak out, whatever the subject may be, it just so happens that this time it's 'the kind of women certain men want' or in your view 'all men want'.

Female opinions are not all derived from 'feminist issues'.

If you want a woman who will never openly object to your views, how the ###### will you ever know who she truly is??

With the confidence to express ones views, you by default become a wiser person from the feedback.

It just sounds to me that you've met just a few too many 'Ball breaking bitches'

[Jai Dee]

Great post sbaker...

This is particular says it for me too...

I don't like women with hostility towards me or my sex.  Everyone has their taste.

And as my teeruk says "they must learn to look themselves".