churchill Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-FOUICuoos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-FOUICuoos I think it is appalling that apes should be expected to voice anything intelligent just by giving them amplified microphones. Edited August 31, 2009 by Tyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My understanding was that a few years back there was an outcry about this show, and it did stop. However, the last time I was there about 2 years ago the show was still running. As usual probably stopped it until the fuss died down, and then restarted. TIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My understanding was that a few years back there was an outcry about this show, and it did stop. However, the last time I was there about 2 years ago the show was still running. As usual probably stopped it until the fuss died down, and then restarted. TIT.\I watched the show on youtube.. so gruesome.. i mean that something like this is allowed.. god.. ow jesus.... darn... hel_l... I don't see any problem with this show actually, depending of course how they were trained to do this. You could argue one should not force wild animals to do tricks, but reality is it happens all over the world and in a way could help preservation too. Else stop dog shows, shows with dolphins, horse races, dog races, ect ect can go on forever. I think it all boils down to are they hurting the animal while training and is it dangerous or painful for the animal to preform. I don't see any of that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No Problem They were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My understanding was that a few years back there was an outcry about this show, and it did stop. However, the last time I was there about 2 years ago the show was still running. As usual probably stopped it until the fuss died down, and then restarted. TIT.\I watched the show on youtube.. so gruesome.. i mean that something like this is allowed.. god.. ow jesus.... darn... hel_l... I don't see any problem with this show actually, depending of course how they were trained to do this. You could argue one should not force wild animals to do tricks, but reality is it happens all over the world and in a way could help preservation too. Else stop dog shows, shows with dolphins, horse races, dog races, ect ect can go on forever. I think it all boils down to are they hurting the animal while training and is it dangerous or painful for the animal to preform. I don't see any of that here. Except where animals are seriously endangered, as Orang Utangs are, and not dogs, horses etc, then if they are shown to be successful at drawing crowds then they will be poached at a young, trainable age (their mother's being killed to facilitate this), just to draw even more crowds. In this case, money, not preservation is the aim and so the latter will not occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Look, if any Orang Utangs are bred legitimately in captivity for conservation purposes then they are not going to be sent to become circus entertainers are they? They will either be sent to other credible zoos for breeding purposes or returned to the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 This is the same Safari World that was caught hiding over 200 Orang-utans in shop houses around the north-eastern outskirts of Bangkok when it was found they had over 300 orang-utans but could only show any purchase documentation for 100 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginexile Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 I see no problem, the apes look like they are enjoying themselves. No damage done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wolfe Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 The simians appear to be enjoying themselves. They probably get a kick out of it (no pun intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Look, if any Orang Utangs are bred legitimately in captivity for conservation purposes then they are not going to be sent to become circus entertainers are they? They will either be sent to other credible zoos for breeding purposes or returned to the wild. I said IF Did not say these where please read a post before commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinrada Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes... or put the neanders who would support this unacceptable activity in the ring and let the Orangutan kick their shi**y brains out........WOT Brains.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good. Then i don't condone it, i was asking if not saying these were not taken from the wild. I just don't have a problem with shows with animals that are bred in captivity and are treated well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) Yes...or put the neanders who would support this unacceptable activity in the ring and let the Orangutan kick their shi**y brains out........WOT Brains.? The neanders ARE in the ring with them - take another look at the vid. They've been dressed in light coloured shirts and long trousers and equipt with microphones to amplify their grunts. Edited August 31, 2009 by Tyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Look, if any Orang Utangs are bred legitimately in captivity for conservation purposes then they are not going to be sent to become circus entertainers are they? They will either be sent to other credible zoos for breeding purposes or returned to the wild. I said IF Did not say these where please read a post before commenting. My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again. I mean if they were.. would you still be against it or not. You just said that it would be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good. Then i don't condone it, i was asking if not saying these were not taken from the wild. I just don't have a problem with shows with animals that are bred in captivity and are treated well. You really have'nt thought this through have you? U think they will stop at showing only captively-bred animals if they can make money from any specimen? There are loads of paople who will oblige with young taken from the wild if they are successful at making money from them whether captively bred or not. With endangered species, there is no half-way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again. I mean if they were.. would you still be against it or not. You just said that it would be impossible. ????? impossible? I don't know what you are getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 My answer is appropriate to the word 'IF". Read it again. I mean if they were.. would you still be against it or not. You just said that it would be impossible. ????? impossible? I don't know what you are getting at. Ok let me rephrase.. hypothetically if the animals were bred in captivity would you still be against the show or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 You really have'nt thought this through have you? U think they will stop at showing only captively-bred animals if they can make money from any specimen? There are loads of paople who will oblige with young taken from the wild if they are successful at making money from them whether captively bred or not. With endangered species, there is no half-way. We as humans are a threat to animals, we just cant live with them. When we need room or resources we take them. So the only real solution would be a lot less humans. Your solutions are also not going to help. So you can say i don't think things through.. but you also don't see the big picture. I just believe its all going to end anyway and not in a good way. Nothing you or i can do will stop it as long as there are more and more humans being born all the time. Like to know your view on that one. Anyway i still think things could be regulated in developed countries.. but not in Thailand. The whole point im trying to get across is that i am not against shows with animals as long as its regulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . And if they were bred in captivity ? I don't condone taking them from the wild. Have a look at what Briggsy has posted, Safari World has history - and it isn't good. I wouldn't trust or ANY commercial exploitation of live animals (or people for that matter, eg hill tribes) in Thailand - whether it is in a zoo, monkey temple, nature park, safari park, night safari or whatever. Their humane record is abyssmal. They can't even treat dogs properly even though it's a proud buddhist country. Their take on eating meat is that it's ok as long as someone else kills the animals because it's not the eating that's wrong - it's the killing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyke Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) You really have'nt thought this through have you? U think they will stop at showing only captively-bred animals if they can make money from any specimen? There are loads of paople who will oblige with young taken from the wild if they are successful at making money from them whether captively bred or not. With endangered species, there is no half-way. We as humans are a threat to animals, we just cant live with them. When we need room or resources we take them. So the only real solution would be a lot less humans. Your solutions are also not going to help. So you can say i don't think things through.. but you also don't see the big picture. I just believe its all going to end anyway and not in a good way. Nothing you or i can do will stop it as long as there are more and more humans being born all the time. Like to know your view on that one. Anyway i still think things could be regulated in developed countries.. but not in Thailand. The whole point im trying to get across is that i am not against shows with animals as long as its regulated. A bit gloomy but I agree to some extent. There may be some place for live shows of animals if it genuinely helps to preserve and take care of them. I am thinking of something like the elephant parks in the north. With most of the logging gone, there is no place for them and can be treated as pests when competing with farmers for food. By making them create an income for their handlers and also keeping them stimulated, it at least keeps them alive, healthy and reasonably happy if not exactly natural. At least they are not being herded on the streets of Bangkok like some others. But elephants in Thailand are not as endangered in the same way as Orang Utangs are. OU's are not even indigenous to Thailand. A much better solution of OUs is like the preserves in Sandakan (Sabah) and Merdan. They are kept in a large forest area and visitors can view them feeding - it's actually a very boring experience but at least they live a reasonably natural life without having to dress up in drag to entertain strange men several times a day. Edited August 31, 2009 by Tyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaiGreg Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Do they have work permits? I bet not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanForbes Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Typical Thai slapstick humour. The only issue I can see is whether or not wild animals should be captured and put in zoos. Training them later to do tricks is incidental. There is both good and bad on the issue of zoos. In many cases, zoos have been instrumental in protecting wild animals from becoming extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxhoedave Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 An old report from Monkey World Primate rescue centre in Dorset UK The Monkey World and Pingtung teams returned to Thailand to investigate further reports from wildlife parks in and around Bangkok. The team went to Safari World and found more than a dozen (12+) orangutans (Pongo pygmaeus) and several chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) that were dressed up and made to perform a Thai boxing match. All these orangutans were juveniles and there were no adult orangutans found in the park. If there are no adult orangutans at Safari World, where did all the young orangutans come from? Safari World staff were asked this question. The replied that there were no adult orangutans at the park. All the orangutans in the Safari World show were clearly smuggled from the wild. After the boxing show the orangutans were taken to a public area where customers were allowed to have their photos taken with the orangutans. For the photos the orangutans were forced to "kiss" each person. From this type of contact with the public it is likely that the animals will catch tuberculosis from the people and then they will pass it on to other visitor that kiss them. This disease risk is very dangerous for both people and orangutans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khundon Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Monkey World UK, did a piece on this establishment a couple of years ago. I thought the Thai government was going to put a stop to this appalling spectacle. It is well known, that most of the young orangutans are ripped from the wild, to perform in the show. The real animals are the so called trainers. It's all about money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxhoedave Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . The vast majority of the visitors are Thai. Most people from the west would be pretty appalled to see endangered species treat like this. Are you Thai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassienie Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Yes No ProblemThey were probably stolen as babies and their parents killed just to entertain a few farang for a night . Yes, absolutely agree. I live in Chiang Mai only 30 minutes away from the Night Safari. Never been, never will, nor would I recommended any of my family and friends to visit there. The best way to show disapproval of this crulty is to boycott this place and not support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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