After 7 Times No Further Tr Visa In Vientiane/laos

[tropo]

4)If you have lived here long enough you know that honesty and morality are not on the "top ten" of values here. So when in Rome.....

Isn't that a hoot?

Phetaroi is preaching about honesty and morality in Thailand. You have to wonder if he's ever been here.

[phetaroi]

I guess for me it's a question of honesty and morality. And, I fully realize that where each person draws the line on those ephemeral principles varies.

The new year has barely begun and the moral police are out again.

When will you moralists realise that people do not self regulate. It's up to the Immigration department to make the rules. We work within the rules.

Except that one of the issues being discussed is that the greater "we" doesn't work within the rules.

So, I take it from what you said that you are opposed to morality?

[phetaroi]

4)If you have lived here long enough you know that honesty and morality are not on the "top ten" of values here. So when in Rome.....

While understand that while in Rome one must adjust, that does not mean one has to abandon their own principles.

[tropo]

Except that one of the issues being discussed is that the greater "we" doesn't work within the rules.

So, I take it from what you said that you are opposed to morality?

You almost got it right.

I'm opposed to people from different nationalities and religions trying to impose their brand of morality on other people, arrogantly assuming that their brand of morality is the gold standard by which all others should live by.

In other words, stop trying to be a missionary and judging me by your own rules. I'm not interested in your concepts of right and wrong.

[Brunus]

4)If you have lived here long enough you know that honesty and morality are not on the "top ten" of values here. So when in Rome.....

While understand that while in Rome one must adjust, that does not mean one has to abandon their own principles.

I didn't say I abandoned my principles. Just that honesty and morality seem not to be very important here. So when dealing with locals you have to adapt.

[phetaroi]

Except that one of the issues being discussed is that the greater "we" doesn't work within the rules.

So, I take it from what you said that you are opposed to morality?

You almost got it right.

I'm opposed to people from different nationalities and religions trying to impose their brand of morality on other people, arrogantly assuming that their brand of morality is the gold standard by which all others should live by.

In other words, stop trying to be a missionary and judging me by your own rules. I'm not interested in your concepts of right and wrong.

Of course you have every right to ignore (or respond to) my posts and my viewpoints.

[phetaroi]

4)If you have lived here long enough you know that honesty and morality are not on the "top ten" of values here. So when in Rome.....

While understand that while in Rome one must adjust, that does not mean one has to abandon their own principles.

I didn't say I abandoned my principles. Just that honesty and morality seem not to be very important here. So when dealing with locals you have to adapt.

To begin with, I was making a general statement, not one that necessarily applied to you. Only you can know whether it does.

I agree that some level of adaption is wise. I just find that people are most...hmmm, not sure what word I want...content?...when in spite of circumstances they maintain their personal integrity...and note that I understand that what constitutes personal integrity varies from one person to the next. Unlike what a previous poster accused me of, I am not saying that everyone has to have the same vision of what integrity and honesty is.

[bellagrego]

I said he moved to Penang. He lives there now. He was so pissed by Thai immigration rules that he decided to go and spend his money in Malaysia.

This is an attitude I don't understand. Thailand, as well as every other country on the face of the planet, has a right to determine its own policies for granting the privilege of entry into their country. It is not our personal playground. For the vast majority of us, Thailand's policies are much softer than those of the countries we come from. And this idea that any one of us makes a significant impact on the Thai economy is laughable.

At last, a man with common sense and an open mind. The lunacy sometimes expressed here about our economic contribution is laughable. Yep, we contribute. Yep, we do support and feed a lot of mouths but the bottom line is that is a minuscule part of the Thai economy. The goofy Thai visa crap is all part of living here as is the watching of a fledgling Democracy and all the rhetoric . I too, wish we could run Thailand the good old Western Way, but folks, It ain't gonna happen. So , get a grip on that tiny, cute Thai gal you live with and move up here to Esaan, where the shirts are red, the buffaloes and cows run loose in the street, and the toddlers roan at will anytime and everywhere.

bella

[Brunus]

I said he moved to Penang. He lives there now. He was so pissed by Thai immigration rules that he decided to go and spend his money in Malaysia.

This is an attitude I don't understand. Thailand, as well as every other country on the face of the planet, has a right to determine its own policies for granting the privilege of entry into their country. It is not our personal playground. For the vast majority of us, Thailand's policies are much softer than those of the countries we come from. And this idea that any one of us makes a significant impact on the Thai economy is laughable.

At last, a man with common sense and an open mind. The lunacy sometimes expressed here about our economic contribution is laughable. Yep, we contribute. Yep, we do support and feed a lot of mouths but the bottom line is that is a minuscule part of the Thai economy. The goofy Thai visa crap is all part of living here as is the watching of a fledgling Democracy and all the rhetoric . I too, wish we could run Thailand the good old Western Way, but folks, It ain't gonna happen. So , get a grip on that tiny, cute Thai gal you live with and move up here to Esaan, where the shirts are red, the buffaloes and cows run loose in the street, and the toddlers roan at will anytime and everywhere.

bella

Maybe some people here can't read well. The same people who say "if you don't like here, then go somewhere else". Well, my friend did it. He has enough money for living without working. He was fed up with Thai immigration rules and he went to live somewhere else. I don't see in my post any reference to Thai economy. Just a decision to move to another country where visa regulations are less complicated than here. And as I said before here we are talking about people, not money

[Foreigner]

Brunus, Tropo, Mario thank you for your helpful information. I start with going to the border on Januari 11 th, than I go to the Dutch Embassy for a new passport, because indeed there are 3 pages left and a lot of visas inside. After I have my new passport I'll try an ED visa and later followed by a retirement or business visa. I'll keep you posted here about my progress.

Why not make it easier and apply for a tourist visa in Vientiane with your new passport. I'm 99.9% sure you'll be successful and make sure it's a double entry. Right now they are free so you don't have too much to lose.

This will take care of your immediate problem of having a valid visa and it will give you some breathing room. You should be able to manage a few more years like this unless they change their policies again.

I'll see what I do, just made an appointment on the Dutch Embassy on the 12th for my new passport. Probably have to go to the Cambodian border again on the 25 th, because a new passport can take about 10 days. When I choose for a new tourist visa I think I better go to Mukdahan/Savannakhet for sure. Do you really think this is possible, you should say they keep history in their computer?

[tropo]

Except that one of the issues being discussed is that the greater "we" doesn't work within the rules.

So, I take it from what you said that you are opposed to morality?

You almost got it right.

I'm opposed to people from different nationalities and religions trying to impose their brand of morality on other people, arrogantly assuming that their brand of morality is the gold standard by which all others should live by.

In other words, stop trying to be a missionary and judging me by your own rules. I'm not interested in your concepts of right and wrong.

Of course you have every right to ignore (or respond to) my posts and my viewpoints.

Thanks. I just wanted to let you know that I don't appreciate lectures on morality when I'm trying to help people out with information on how to get visas. Many of us prefer to keep the information in this forum factual. There are other forums where discussions about religion are more appropriate.

[tropo]

Why not make it easier and apply for a tourist visa in Vientiane with your new passport. I'm 99.9% sure you'll be successful and make sure it's a double entry. Right now they are free so you don't have too much to lose.

This will take care of your immediate problem of having a valid visa and it will give you some breathing room. You should be able to manage a few more years like this unless they change their policies again.

I'll see what I do, just made an appointment on the Dutch Embassy on the 12th for my new passport. Probably have to go to the Cambodian border again on the 25 th, because a new passport can take about 10 days. When I choose for a new tourist visa I think I better go to Mukdahan/Savannakhet for sure. Do you really think this is possible, you should say they keep history in their computer?

I'm positive it's possible. My gf (Philippines) had a tourist visa application refused in Vientiane in October. She got a new passport (it was full) and tried again 2 months later. She got a double entry tourist visa. Tourist visas are free right now, so you don't have a lot to lose by trying.

Don't go to Savannakhet because you will not get a double entry tourist visa there. They are only available in Vientiane.

Edited January 2, 2010 by tropo

[Foreigner]

Foreigner, or should I say "buitenlander" in your and my language, you are 50+ now. Don't you have either 800 k in the bank, 800 k income, or a combination together 800 k ? You are entitled, in that case, for an ret visa. If I can help you, in Dutch language, send me a personal message. May be we can work something out together.

I'll first apply for a new passport and after that i am going to arrange a new visa, retirement (?), business(?), study (?), tourist (?). I will send you a personal message later, "dank je wel" .

[phetaroi]

Thanks. I just wanted to let you know that I don't appreciate lectures on morality when I'm trying to help people out with information on how to get visas. Many of us prefer to keep the information in this forum factual. There are other forums where discussions about religion are more appropriate.

1. Legality (which is what I think you're talking about) and morality (which is part of what I am talking about) are not necessarily separate things.

2. Morality does not require religion; how one approaches the law is integrity.

3. This board is a discussion forum. Discussions often wander around to different aspects of a topic. Discussions often go where almost any of us don't want them to go. That's part of life in a forum.

Edited January 2, 2010 by phetaroi

[beechguy]

I said he moved to Penang. He lives there now. He was so pissed by Thai immigration rules that he decided to go and spend his money in Malaysia.

This is an attitude I don't understand. Thailand, as well as every other country on the face of the planet, has a right to determine its own policies for granting the privilege of entry into their country. It is not our personal playground. For the vast majority of us, Thailand's policies are much softer than those of the countries we come from. And this idea that any one of us makes a significant impact on the Thai economy is laughable.

At last, a man with common sense and an open mind. The lunacy sometimes expressed here about our economic contribution is laughable. Yep, we contribute. Yep, we do support and feed a lot of mouths but the bottom line is that is a minuscule part of the Thai economy. The goofy Thai visa crap is all part of living here as is the watching of a fledgling Democracy and all the rhetoric . I too, wish we could run Thailand the good old Western Way, but folks, It ain't gonna happen. So , get a grip on that tiny, cute Thai gal you live with and move up here to Esaan, where the shirts are red, the buffaloes and cows run loose in the street, and the toddlers roan at will anytime and everywhere.

bella

Maybe some people here can't read well. The same people who say "if you don't like here, then go somewhere else". Well, my friend did it. He has enough money for living without working. He was fed up with Thai immigration rules and he went to live somewhere else. I don't see in my post any reference to Thai economy. Just a decision to move to another country where visa regulations are less complicated than here. And as I said before here we are talking about people, not money

Actually it would appear some do read rather well. I think the comments about money stem from your comment in post #9 about your friend going to spend his money in Malaysia. Some may interpret that as, he was trying to inflict some sort of penalty on Thailand and their economy because of his dissatisfaction with the immigration rules.

Also, in post #19, you mentioned your friend had lived here 5 years before he decided to leave. What type of visa did he have? Why was it he "suddenly had to move"?

Anyway, I think there is something to learn from these discussions, and was curious what he thought was the problem with the immigration rules, especially enough to convince him to leave the country.

Edited January 2, 2010 by beechguy

[tropo]

Thanks. I just wanted to let you know that I don't appreciate lectures on morality when I'm trying to help people out with information on how to get visas. Many of us prefer to keep the information in this forum factual. There are other forums where discussions about religion are more appropriate.

1. Legality (which is what I think you're talking about) and morality (which is part of what I am talking about) are not necessarily separate things.

2. Morality does not require religion; how one approaches the law is integrity.

3. This board is a discussion forum. Discussions often wander around to different aspects of a topic. Discussions often go where almost any of us don't want them to go. That's part of life in a forum.

Nonsense!

You were talking about morality and that is what I was commenting on.

Morality has to do with a person's beliefs of what is right and wrong. What is right and wrong is influenced by one's religious beliefs.

(Here's a good definition from Wiki: In its first, descriptive usage, morality means a code of conduct or a set of beliefs distinguishing between right and wrong behaviors. In its descriptive use, morals are arbitrarily and subjectively created by philosophy, religion, and/or individual conscience).

Is it so hard for you to understand that we're not interested in being lectured to about morals when applying for a tourist visa? Your morals mean nothing here.

You should give the OP a break because he's asking for help with his visa problems... problems I'm able to help him with because I've been through them myself.

[Brunus]

Actually it would appear some do read rather well. I think the comments about money stem from your comment in post #9 about your friend going to spend his money in Malaysia. Some may interpret that as, he was trying to inflict some sort of penalty on Thailand and their economy because of his dissatisfaction with the immigration rules.

Also, in post #19, you mentioned your friend had lived here 5 years before he decided to leave. What type of visa did he have? Why was it he "suddenly had to move"?

Anyway, I think there is something to learn from these discussions, and was curious what he thought was the problem with the immigration rules, especially enough to convince him to leave the country.

Somebody might interpret my statement like "Malaysia will be the richest country in the world now that my friend is there". Nonsense like your interpretation. Just want to point out that he is a long term tourist and he doesn't work illegally. These regulation are in place to avoid people illegally working in Thailand.

I wrote that he had a red stamp in Vientiane. Maybe you don't read that well.

The problem that convinced him to leave the country is that red stamp. He had ed visa before. After that tourist visas.

[beechguy]

Actually I read quite well. I was just asking to get a better understanding of why your friend left. So, do I have this correct? Your friend lived here 5 years, and didn't see fit to keep the correct visa for his situation. Then, all of a sudden he gets angry for Thai immigration doing their job, and decides to leave?

Seems to me the system worked very well.

Anyway, there is a difference between "having to leave" as you put it in an earlier post, and getting angry and leaving simply because of the red stamp.

Edited January 2, 2010 by beechguy

[Mario2008]

Let's start the new year with peace and happiness and stop this dispute right here before it gets too ugly. No need to go into a dispute about this.

[beechguy]

Fair enough, just trying to decide what the facts are. One place it was described that the guy got angry and moved, another place it was described as he suddenly had to move and start a new life in another country as though he had no choice. Your last post was a better description of the situation.

The point is, a number of people have mentioned receiving a red stamp, there is a long discussion about that. But, very few were denied a visa as in this OP'S case. But, I don't recall anyone being denied a visa at another location, so that they couldn't continue to stay or visit. If one choses not to apply somewhere else, that's their choice.

Edited January 2, 2010 by beechguy

[DegenFarang]

Scary stuff. They are really starting to crack down hard on Farang living here. Good luck.

[JR Texas]

Scary stuff. They are really starting to crack down hard on Farang living here. Good luck.

THEY have been doing this for the past ten years. It is pure xenophobia (coupled with a strong dose of total lunacy).

[lopburi3]

There was a polite request to keep the flames/arguments out of this. Several posts have been removed.

[beechguy]

Scary stuff. They are really starting to crack down hard on Farang living here. Good luck.

THEY have been doing this for the past ten years. It is pure xenophobia (coupled with a strong dose of total lunacy).

Could we keep some kind of reasonable perspective on this? The original OP has been here about 22 months on Tourist Visas. He didn't get asked to leave, he was just told to get the correct visa for his situation. In a side discussion, a gentleman was described as being here 5 years on a ED and Tourist Visa, and when he got a red stamp, he decided to leave. I do not know if he was denied a visa. But, all of this is related to policy at Vientiane. That does not mean one cannot obtain a visa elsewhere and continue to stay or visit.

[Somrak]

The point is, a number of people have mentioned receiving a red stamp, there is a long discussion about that. But, very few were denied a visa as in this OP'S case. But, I don't recall anyone being denied a visa at another location, so that they couldn't continue to stay or visit. If one choses not to apply somewhere else, that's their choice.

I think it shoud be easy to understand that tourist-visas are for tourists only.

Everybody likes to stay longer can/shoud apply for a adequate visa.!? And there are a lot of possibilitys as mentioned in other parts of the forum.

Happy New Year

Edited January 3, 2010 by lopburi3
non English removed - lopburi3

[JR Texas]

The point is, a number of people have mentioned receiving a red stamp, there is a long discussion about that. But, very few were denied a visa as in this OP'S case. But, I don't recall anyone being denied a visa at another location, so that they couldn't continue to stay or visit. If one choses not to apply somewhere else, that's their choice.

I think it shoud be easy to understand that tourist-visas are for tourists only.

Everybody likes to stay longer can/shoud apply for a adequate visa.!? And there are a lot of possibilitys as mentioned in other parts of the forum.

Happy New Year

Thailand does not have to implement policies that are xenophobic.

It could implement foreigner friendly policies like Cambodia or the Philippines, for example.

That is my point that the defenders of these crazy policies do not seem to get.

Thailand decided to do what it has done.........It has not always been this way....in the past the rules were far more foreigner friendly.

Not all countries make these types of distinctions between short stay tourists and long stay tourists, etc.

It is just a word: TOURISTS. From one perspective, we are all temporary tourists--no matter what our visa status--given the insecurity of the visa system.

Not all countries do what they can to tear marriages apart by constantly raising the income bar.

Not all countries implement silly rules that make you travel across the country just to get a re-entry permit.

Not all countries make you pay for a outbound airline ticket before allowing you to enter the country.

Not all countries do everything in their power to prevent foreigners from staying and spending money in the country.

Etc., etc., etc.

[AndersJensenThailand]

I have been here on turist visa from oct 2008, in dec 2009 i just got another TR visa with no problem. I am from denmark. Someone told me it also have to do with what country your from.

[OxfordWill]

4)If you have lived here long enough you know that honesty and morality are not on the "top ten" of values here. So when in Rome.....

While understand that while in Rome one must adjust, that does not mean one has to abandon their own principles.

Yea because principles are the best way to approach morality.... (!?)....it's funny how most of us are complete products of our own country, and guess what, so are Thai people products of Thai society. I like how you assume that (a) all foreigners coming to Thailand have principles and ( that principles are somehow a more satisfactory response to moral problems than anything Thailand has come up with! Most people visiting Thailand are just as blinkered as the romans yet think they are free thinking or at least more free thinking than the locals. Only they arent. Meta-ethics in a visa thread.. only on thaivisa.com

I suggest as have others that the OP go the ED visa route. This kills two birds with one stone- you get your visa situation under control and you get to become literate in the country you will be living in. It's a win-win situation. It's not too expensive and it is convenient compared to the tourist visas border run situation.

It also has the added benefit of, once fluent in Thai, being able to write long complaint letters to immigration officials about the whole department Of course, they will be ignored, but it is cathartic I am sure.

[samesamebutdifferent]

Say what you want, if your getting red stamps or being told to get the proper visa, your obviously doing something wrong. It's not so important that you don't think it's wrong, your not the guy handing out the visa.

I don't see why you don't sort yourself out, and get the correct visa, even if it means abit of expense in the short term. All the back and forward over the border must be stressful, if nothing else.

I read all this cr@p about how draconian the visa law is here, try take you LEGALLY married wife back to the UK and experience some real work to get a visa.

[tropo]

Say what you want, if your getting red stamps or being told to get the proper visa, your obviously doing something wrong. It's not so important that you don't think it's wrong, your not the guy handing out the visa.

Nice try, but wrong.

If you get a red stamp, all that means is that you have reached your last tourist visa from the location that gave you the red stamp unless they change their policies.

A person can still travel back to their home country and get another tourist visa and probably a better one (3-entry, 6 month validity), or even better still a one year non-0.

It makes perfect sense for people to get back-to-back tourist visas from nearby consulates if they are readily available. I'm in that boat myself. I decided that I would continue along that path for two reasons:

1. I'm not sure yet if Thailand is where I want to retire permanently, so don't worry about getting any permanent type of visa yet.

2. As long as they are easy to get, then continue to get them. If that changes, change the plans.

After 4 years of (2) I'm still not sure about (1).