I Can Finally Leave Thailand.

[basjke]

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

Wow. If that's true, it's really sad.

Don't try to look smart by taking my post out of it's context.For those who didn't read the post here is the objected chapter again.

What bothers me the most about Thailand is that before I came here I traveled to many other country's.And wherever I came I made friends with the local people which I mostly still have contact with at current time.Also,in the district where I lived in my home country we had a lot of immigrants due to the coal mines but I had actually no problem with them and even had some good friends among them.

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

[spongeman]

The statement about Thai food is somewhat bizzare - the hours of preperation and the freshness of ingredients would suggest otherwise.

[F1fanatic]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

[SpoliaOpima]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

Guess this thread is gonna be the Thai apologists vs the Thai bashers.

[TheLaughingMan]

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

Wow. If that's true, it's really sad.

then i am a sad sod as well but for me it has only been 11yrs

Add me to ths list of not ever being able to make friends with Thai people. Only 6 years for me though. Had lots of employees, but you cant call those friends. Not real friends.

[MJP]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

I've given up trying to reason anything here, the people, the society, the country . . . any of it. Frankly I just can't be bothered anymore. I really couldn't care less either way.

The best way to deal with living in Thailand is keep yourself to yourself, don't get involved with anyone and don't ever open the wallet. Keep costs low and don't ever 'invest' in anything, even if you think it's your families future. It'll just end up being a donation.

I'm in the same boat as the OP, although I've many years to go before the child leaves school. However, I shall not be trapped here for 15 years. That I shall make sure of. Don't mind returning for periods, but the thought of this being 'it' . . . may as just hang myself now.

Although it has it's charms . . . (and by that I don't mean cheap prostitutes).

[torrenova]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

Of course, the apologists will be breaking into sweat at their keyboards at this one. Never happens, or you met the only one in Thailand who is like that etc. Reality is a dish they do not like served hot or cold !

Everywhere I've lived in Thailand and every time I knew Thais who had westerners in their midst, there were people like this. Every single occasion and each time, their pride at ripping people off, wallowing in their illusionary "cleverness" was evident.

We've just sold a house where the neighbour was like that and another across the way is the same.

:D :D

[MJP]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

Of course, the apologists will be breaking into sweat at their keyboards at this one. Never happens, or you met the only one in Thailand who is like that etc. Reality is a dish they do not like served hot or cold !

Everywhere I've lived in Thailand and every time I knew Thais who had westerners in their midst, there were people like this. Every single occasion and each time, their pride at ripping people off, wallowing in their illusionary "cleverness" was evident.

We've just sold a house where the neighbour was like that and another across the way is the same.

I thinks it's the national sport.

Although, that said, however much this country really isn't a particularly nice or honest place . . . bizarrely my old mother-in-law, one of the only true salt of the earth types I've ever known, keeps it all together for us. She hates the 'ripping off' bit, hence I still have a roof over my head.

There but for the grace of Mummy I go . . .

[Travel2003]

quote]

Guess this thread is gonna be the Thai apologists vs the Thai bashers.

Hmmmmm, that is a tricky one, since I belong to both those camps.

[MJP]

Guess this thread is gonna be the Thai apologists vs the Thai bashers.

Hmmmmm, that is a tricky one, since I belong to both those camps.

I'm in the 'don't care but occasionally make honest observations' camp.

I think people get a little too hung up either way about what really is a developing world country with a myriad of problems.

Here for our kid and nowt else. Okay the garden too, I'll admit to the garden.

[Garry9999]

I came to Thailand 4 years ago looking forward to integrating with the people who I'd thought were so wonderful during holidays.

My first next door neighbour - a Thai woman (not from Issan) married to a Brit who was in England making the money, made it v clear that she was taking every baht she could and hiding it in her own bank account. She thought she was being incredibly clever and I'd approve......

That was my first lesson.

After that I was (admittedly) suspicious of motives, but I've not met anyone (Thai) who has made me think - OK! They're not just interested in money!. Sad but true.

In my time in Thailand I worked (for expat companies) with many university graduates, most were very excepting of and eager to learn from foreigners. However, graduates that had spent a year or two working for a Thai company previously had a completely different, know it all already attitude and were more likely to cheat and lie.

This leads me to believe the rip off attitude is learned behavior, learned from their peers.

Some of the young guys I worked with in Thailand, I still count as good friends, there were also many pseudo friends who dropped me like a hot potato once they realized I was no longer any use to them.

[MJP]

I admire the OP's honesty. He knew the Thai apologists would bark up and they did in part but then some people think the world is flat when all the evidence supports the theory that it is indeed round.

I admire the resilience to stick things out, putting his child before himself. Those without children in a similar position are hardly in a position to judge as they need only concern themselves and perhaps their Thai partner. An overseas education at university level is what I wish for my daughter and the OP is, in my mind, to be congratulated for being financially astute enough to provide for that expense. I often look at western guys having kids in Thailand and not being able to properly educate them, pushing them into below par schools and making no provision for post high school education. They almost always come up with some excuse but I bet they have beer in the fridge !

Thailand is not for all. It has many faults and problems are increasing. There are issues in the years ahead which could tear the country apart and where that leaves the often despised foreigners we do not know. I could travel no further than this forum in the last week to find tales of Thais hoping that the plane flying their daughter and her western partner would crash so they can steal his assets. Another recent thread recounted a western man whose wife had died I believe and he was evicted and shot. All nicely covered up and the police in the thick of it for their cut. These are weekly reports in a country which falsely purports to be all smiles and peaceful with charm and quiet serenity. Utter <deleted>. Please leave your money at the airport, do not enter and bugger off home could well replace "Smooth as silk".

There is a good side to Thailand but it is harder and harder to find. I'm well into my second decade of travelling around Thailand and have enough years of living in the country to warrant an opinion. The simplest explanation is that money has corrupted the people. It has become their god and as per an old Chinese adage, it does not matter what you do to achieve wealth, only that you do. We see that best personified in Toxin and his cronies, though the establishment is just as guilty, though some less well known.

As the OP has come to notice, the beautiful weather, the great food IMHO, the relaxing environment in some quarters and many other things all lose their lustre over time. Or should I say that they have lost their lustre over the last period of time. Like any marriage, there is the honeymoon period, followed by a period where the bond is tested before you settle into a life which is based upon mutual respect and accommodation. Thailand does not offer this mutual respect or appreciation. You may offer it but it is rarely reciprocated without conditions, mostly based on what they can get out of it. This is often personified in westerners being overcharged, ripped off and often referred to as being below the fleas on the dog in the family structure. Yet we put them at the to of our family tree.

I suspect there are many who cannot leave. There are more who should not be in Thailand. Some have gone native and have lost the plot completely. Others are happy drunks.

I wish the OP and his son well. I hope a period of foreign reflection does not induce a return on the rebound but as someone with many years under his belt, I am sure the Op will retain some fond memories of Thailand and watch with interest how the country either pulls itself together or descends into utter chaos and potentially civil war.

Honest.

There are rare occasions and circumstances where the farang is respected and loved and a normal family unit (caveat: does not include wife) may continue. However, this is so rare in my opinion so as not to warrant the risk.

Disappointing for nice people that come here to make a difference and build a life and as you point out, potentially quite dangerous.

[bobbysan124]

To OP, best to you in the future. You have to do what you have to do.

[geronimo]

Well, each to his own. We're all unique beings, that's what makes life so interesting. Myself, I've been here for 27 years. Traveled the world (working my way around) visited 84 countries, some for a year, some just a day. Then one day I decided upon Thailand and arrived on a one way ticket with 500 pounds. The really spooky thing for me was that within 24 hours of arriving in Thailand, the desire to travel had totally disappeared! Never to return. Thailand is it for me, with all its faults. I feel the west is a sinking ship and much prefer to spend my remaining years here.

[tartempion]

I agreed with everything the op said except.... no good food? That's the most outrageous statement ever. Besides Thai food (clean Thai food) being great, Bangkok has excellent restaurants from every country. I would never have such a high quality selction of international foods back home, one of the reasons I moved here was the excellent food.

Ah, well, Bangkok is not Thailand.

Come here in the village, 40kms East of Udon Thani, food is rubbish.

We have one (1) "restaurant, woooha" with almost decent food, but everyday? No thanks.

The amphur, 8kms away has 2 "moo kata's" and one (1) almost decent restaurant and two (2) food places somewhat out of town.

Udon Thani at near 100kms return has a few decent eating places.

[GuestHouse]

As Torranova has pointed out, the OP has put his commitment to raise his child through school before his own wish to go back home - His child has now completed school and the OP is free to make a choice for himself.

That commitment deserves recognition for what it is.

The only mistake I see the OP making is proclaiming his departure, though interesting in what it tells us, this is a relatively rare thing, most foreigners arrive in Thailand with trumpets blaring - ranting about their own country but with a wallet flush with the residue of their life their.

One, two perhaps three years and sometimes longer, they quietly slope off home, broke and disillusioned - throwing themselves on the welfare state, friends, family they ranted about when they first arrived.

The OP clearly did the right thing by his child these past years, now he's doing what he believes to be the right thing for himself.

How many people here are doing what they think is the right thing for themselves? - and if you are one of these people, why is it such a good thing for you to choose what you believe to be the right choice for you while the OP making what he believes to be the right choice for his such a bad thing?

I suspect the implicit critical view of your choices that the OP by his rejecting life in Thailand disturbs something people know but don't like to admit about life in Thailand?!

[phetaroi]

To the OP: My compliments. You're not happy here. Smart move to leave and try to be happy elsewhere.

I disagree with many of this criticisms of Thailand, OR I can think of many corollary negatives to "back home", but that is part of the "to each his own" concept.

For me, I'm 60 and retired and entering what is the last chapter of life. So, time to life one chapter of life really differently...and for me, that is Thailand. But even I realize that political things could happen in this country or at some point I could say, "Enough!" I've left open all the doors.

I wish the OP well. Better to leave than to become/stay bitter.

[tartempion]

Fifteen years in Thailand and you join up just to say goodbye.

Oh well, good luck and remember to keep in touch.

Seems to me the OP learned more about life than you

I lived and worked in many countries (France, Germany, Finland, Canada, Usa, Hong Kong, Dubai, Singapore, Bangkok etc) and ended up staying in a from God forgotten Isaan village.

After 8 years living here I am reconsidering, indeed, so many things are wrong in this country.

We will be traveling to the south of France this June, mainly for the wife to get a feeling of village life there.

Selling our house here and moving over there is on my mind, no children to worry about.

[phetaroi]

You have said it spot on with this.

...

But there does seem to be some farangs who live in Thailand that just cant appect that other farangs can say any bad words about the place. Most of these people have only been here a couple of years at the most and live in a little bubble or they just refuse to see the bad things that go on around them.

I just cant and never will be able to understand how some farangs seem to think it is fine when they get ripped off or charged double for something.

... So to them people moaning about about anyone who says anything bad about living here... You need to wake up.

...

Once again thanks to everyone who has left kind comments

A couple of comments from someone who is sometimes accused of being an apologist.

1. My compliments to you, because instead of becoming one of those in the chorus of mumblers and grumblers and constant complainers, you are taking action to change your situation. And you see, that's what I think about all the mumblers and grumblers. When I was a principal in the west, on very rare occasions I said to a few of my teachers, "You seem to be truly unhappy here. Why continue to live life unhappy most of the time. Why don't you let me help you transfer to a new situation you might find more to your liking." Over 30 years in education, I taught or administered in 7 different schools. Early on when seniority was low, I got transferred a few times when there were budget cuts and staff cutbacks. Later, I chose to leave two of the schools because I was unhappy there. Many people have the option to change what they grow tired of. Good to you for doing that.

2. Mostly I love it here. That doesn't mean I don't see the bad things. And I won't tick off my list right now. And there are times I moan and groan about them. But, nobody likes a constant complainer.

3. About double pricing, as one example and because you mention it, my attitude is -- I don't like it, but I can afford it and I can't change it, so why let unhappiness about it pervade my life. And what balances it for me is how much cheaper many other things are than back home. I just choose to look at it differently.

4. I think "unhappy people" let life do things to them. I think "happier people" make life what they want it to be, as much as possible. I choose to be the latter, while realizing that I cannot always make life go my preferred way.

[likewise]

Here since 1996 and me too I have noticed that Thailand isn't improving. The development they claim doesn't seem to be happening, one corrupt government gets "couped out" another one steps in to line their pockets.

Police, well we all know what they are good for.

THeir government comes with rules that a toddler could not see the point in, for the apologists, learn the language and listen to the news.

The locals, hmm mostly ignorant dumb peasants.

For me it got worse once I started mastering the language fluently.

As many we got our house, plantations and money is not an issue. There are still times that I enjoy myself here but those days are becoming less and less frequent.

We tend to live on our own and I stopped mingling with the locals, as other posters have said : usually their conversations are about food or money, pretty boring if you ask me. They have very little interest in worldly happenings.

Here the plan is to start taking more trips abroad with wife and see how she likes it, if indeed she would be ready to move, well that's a viable option then.

If not, then we'll stay here, personally I can block the negative stuff out pretty good and live in my own world.

Good and bad things here but lately the bad has got the upperhand.

Then again, I do realize that it is human nature to get fed up with places, people,.... overtime, that's why no hasty decisions are being made and I just take it as it comes.

All the best to the OP

[SpoliaOpima]

You have said it spot on with this.

...

But there does seem to be some farangs who live in Thailand that just cant appect that other farangs can say any bad words about the place. Most of these people have only been here a couple of years at the most and live in a little bubble or they just refuse to see the bad things that go on around them.

I just cant and never will be able to understand how some farangs seem to think it is fine when they get ripped off or charged double for something.

... So to them people moaning about about anyone who says anything bad about living here... You need to wake up.

...

Once again thanks to everyone who has left kind comments

A couple of comments from someone who is sometimes accused of being an apologist.

1. My compliments to you, because instead of becoming one of those in the chorus of mumblers and grumblers and constant complainers, you are taking action to change your situation. And you see, that's what I think about all the mumblers and grumblers. When I was a principal in the west, on very rare occasions I said to a few of my teachers, "You seem to be truly unhappy here. Why continue to live life unhappy most of the time. Why don't you let me help you transfer to a new situation you might find more to your liking." Over 30 years in education, I taught or administered in 7 different schools. Early on when seniority was low, I got transferred a few times when there were budget cuts and staff cutbacks. Later, I chose to leave two of the schools because I was unhappy there. Many people have the option to change what they grow tired of. Good to you for doing that.

2. Mostly I love it here. That doesn't mean I don't see the bad things. And I won't tick off my list right now. And there are times I moan and groan about them. But, nobody likes a constant complainer.

3. About double pricing, as one example and because you mention it, my attitude is -- I don't like it, but I can afford it and I can't change it, so why let unhappiness about it pervade my life. And what balances it for me is how much cheaper many other things are than back home. I just choose to look at it differently.

4. I think "unhappy people" let life do things to them. I think "happier people" make life what they want it to be, as much as possible. I choose to be the latter, while realizing that I cannot always make life go my preferred way.

Well said. Your happiness comes not from what surrounds you so much as in how you react to it. But if you think a change of situation will make a big difference then by all means you should change.

I'm not sure why it's so important to make a public announcement about it, however. It leads me to suspect the OP will be equally miserable in the next situation he settles into. Maybe not, but either way those expats among us who are happy in Thailand are even happier when those who don't like staying here bail out. Brightens the atmosphere just a tad.

[PeaceBlondie]

I didn't come here for the food, either.

[tonglen]

Sorry you didnt like your time in LOS. Safe journeys and best wishes on your new future dwelling.

One last thing: If money was no issue, why do you care about double pricing? Or triple pricing for that matter?

[ivowatson]

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

Wow. If that's true, it's really sad.

Sad but true for me too.

[carmine]

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

Wow. If that's true, it's really sad.

Sad but true for me too.

Why is it sad? Furthermore, it's often the case.

[IanForbes]

As Torranova has pointed out, the OP has put his commitment to raise his child through school before his own wish to go back home - His child has now completed school and the OP is free to make a choice for himself.

That commitment deserves recognition for what it is.

The only mistake I see the OP making is proclaiming his departure, though interesting in what it tells us, this is a relatively rare thing, most foreigners arrive in Thailand with trumpets blaring - ranting about their own country but with a wallet flush with the residue of their life their.

One, two perhaps three years and sometimes longer, they quietly slope off home, broke and disillusioned - throwing themselves on the welfare state, friends, family they ranted about when they first arrived.

The OP clearly did the right thing by his child these past years, now he's doing what he believes to be the right thing for himself.

How many people here are doing what they think is the right thing for themselves? - and if you are one of these people, why is it such a good thing for you to choose what you believe to be the right choice for you while the OP making what he believes to be the right choice for his such a bad thing?

I suspect the implicit critical view of your choices that the OP by his rejecting life in Thailand disturbs something people know but don't like to admit about life in Thailand?!

Very well said, guesthouse. I agree totally, Thailand on a permanent basis is not for everyone. It's also not for many of us who only stay 5 or 6 months of the year. I DO think the OP was right in placing his children's interests first. From what I've been able to observe around Thailand, is the children seem to be more behaved during their teenage years. That contrasts vividly with North America where the children are more spoiled and far more disrespectful of other people. There are exceptions of course, but I seldom see Thai children and teenagers being smart alecs with adults. I don't see them hanging around shopping malls smoking and swearing.

I have a feeling it is because students are required to wear uniforms and behave in a proper manner. The only downside to that is maybe the students don't question anyone in authority, and in so doing they MIGHT become more robotic and not explore life on their own.

[SpoliaOpima]

In these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people.

Wow. If that's true, it's really sad.

Sad but true for me too.

Wondering if that's their fault. Or yours.

I have had plenty of close Thai friends, beginning from the first year I arrived. YMMV

[ivowatson]

Sorry to take quotes from many different posters and mingle together but this is the way I feel too (and just like the OP, getting lazy or should I say "chalahd" like the locals)

"I also am in my 16th year in Thailand now and in my opinion this country makes 2 steps backwards for every one step they make forward.You gonna ask now why I don't leave if that is my way of thinking. First of all I like the warm weather 365 days a year.The food is my style and a fraction of the price in Europe,however the last 2 years it changes quickly.

Another reason why I stay is because the life is more relaxed then in my home country.Not so many rules and taxes but the lack of rules I also dam_n many times.And then I speak in general about the traffic rules.

What bothers me the most about Thailand is that

in these 16 years in Thailand I can not recall I ever had a FRIEND among the local people." I can honestly say my dog is my best friend here, coming from someone who never liked dogs.

"And...

In a country with such an abundance of potential, it is inexcusable that the same arguments are still rehashed and that the people in a position to make a difference won't step up and make a difference."

Some love the mai pen rai attitude. I think it's the cause of most evil together with the sitting on the fence attitude because it leads to the 'we don't care' feeling. In recent years, almost all Thai 'celebrities' when asked what they don't like about Thailand, answer the increasing level of greed and selfishness among their compatriots. Even asking that question would not have been permitted, say 5 years ago.

And also, don't even try to give positive critique; you will be slaughtered.

"We tend to live on our own and I stopped mingling with the locals, as other posters have said : usually their conversations are about food or money, pretty boring if you ask me."

The obsession with money really gets out of hand. Money has indeed corrupted most people lately. We all know who's to blame for that.

Best of luck to the OP. If I'm honest the most important reason I stay is that I'm afraid of racism levels in Europe. I can deal with that here but I would hate to see my kids fall victim to that. And of course I like the food, the beer and the weather (in an a/c room) and nature and my job and the 'buy one, get one free' promotions.

To me it's not much of a punishment yet to have to stay here. Still laugh a lot, especially reading comments on TV.

Edited February 13, 2010 by ivowatson

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have nothing against the guy for not liking it here and wanting to leave. That is up to him. The truth is that I wish all the real moaners would go with him.

seconded!

Thirded! (sic)

good luck to you of course... but back to all the PC bullshit, high taxes and control? not for me... anyway each to his own - I jump on a plane when I get frizzled - Phil/Cambodia/Viet etc. just a short way away - I try to travel every 3 months.

[ongoing]

The OP is living in a dream world, someone who believes that the grass is going to be greener elsewhere.

1. Racism: Europe, America, Australia etc, the home of racism. If your kids are half Thai, don't think they will be treated with any more respect in your home country, probably worse in fact. Ask any non-white that lives in a Western country how they feel?

2. Bad food: I love Thai food, it`s great and there are lots of eating places to choose from.

3. Lazy: Life is what you make it. Trillions of things to do in Thailand and a lot cheaper than in the West. Just a case of getting your arse off the chair and getting on with in.

4. Money: Money has always been an important issue where I come from; human nature is the same anywhere.

You say that you would only come back to Thailand to see your son. Does this mean you are leaving him here?

Reading in between the lines, I would guess that there is more to your decision to leave Thailand, maybe financial problems all some sort of trouble, but you are fobbing off the blame onto the country it`s self.

Why is it everytime a farang says he is lieaving thailand. Someone always say it must be becuase of Financial Problems ??? I have already said it is not becuase of Financial problems. If i had Financial Problems i would not be giving my Son a house in Thailand and leaving all my other stuff ( Car etc. ) to my ex wife when i leave thailand. Yes the car is in my name but i will leave it for her. Just becuase you maybe have finanical problems of your own ( many farangs in thailand do have ) dont think that all farangs who leave thailand have. I dont work and i dont have to work another day in my life. Also make sure you read the post first before you comment on it. I said i would only come back to thailand to visit my Son if he choose to live here. I clearly said that he is also leaving thailand to go and study in another country.

As for racism to do with half thai children in thailand. Do no comment on it like you know anything about it. Do you have a half thai child ? and you also say ask any non white person about rasicm in the western world. So that means you are a white person and you know nothing about what a non white in the western world thinks. So please get some life exerance before you comment on things you dont know