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Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II


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8 minutes ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Will banks start to deduct tax at source on every foreigners bank account even if the foreigner does not stay more then 180 days ?

We do not believe that is possible in the short to medium term or even probable in the longer term.

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2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The first tax returns are capable of being filed from then onwards

Is it possible to file a tax return for 2024 before Jan 1st, 2025?

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3 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The first tax returns are capable of being filed from then onwards

for clarity, are you saying we need to file a tax return after the 28th June, or only certain entities or people should or need to?

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36 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

"All persons earning income are required to file a tax return no later than 31 March of the following year for hardcopy filing and 8 April for online filing, except for individuals whose income from employment is THB 120,000 or less (for single persons) or THB 220,000 or less (for married persons)"

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/tax-administration

 

But what is the earliest you can file?

Can you really file in July if you leave the country for the rest of the year?

 

Practical importance:

Retirees already have one fix date (ok, it's not one day, it's about a month) when they HAVE TO be in Thailand: the yearly extension.

If you stay here longer,  sooner or later comes a year where this is very inconvenient.

Is there now a second period  - Jan 1st to March 31st - where you HAVE TO be here at some time to file your taxes? IIRC foreigners cannot file online, I certainly won't try to file taxes online when I am not in Thailand. 

(there are 2 good reasons for me not to be here between Jan 1st and March 31st: air quality and tourists)

 

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3 hours ago, Lorry said:

But what is the earliest you can file?

Can you really file in July if you leave the country for the rest of the year?

 

Practical importance:

Retirees already have one fix date (ok, it's not one day, it's about a month) when they HAVE TO be in Thailand: the yearly extension.

If you stay here longer,  sooner or later comes a year where this is very inconvenient.

Is there now a second period  - Jan 1st to March 31st - where you HAVE TO be here at some time to file your taxes? IIRC foreigners cannot file online, I certainly won't try to file taxes online when I am not in Thailand. 

(there are 2 good reasons for me not to be here between Jan 1st and March 31st: air quality and tourists)

 

 

5 hours ago, Lorry said:

Is it possible to file a tax return for 2024 before Jan 1st, 2025?

 

4 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

for clarity, are you saying we need to file a tax return after the 28th June, or only certain entities or people should or need to?

 

What I wrote was, "The first tax returns are capable of being filed from then onwards", not  that a return must be filed then. That statement says, "capable of being filed", implying  if the TRD allows them to be filed, prior to the end of the tax year and this remains uncertain.

 

One strategy I've used in the past where I was leaving a country I'd worked in and I had an obligation to file a return, has been to visit a tax  preparation/consultancy to prepare the return, whilst I was in  country and had all the paperwork to hand and then leave the actual filing part to them, once the tax year had ended.

 

However, six monthly tax returns are required in Thailand from the self employed plus other categories of taxpayer are required to file throughout the year so the facilities do exist to file a return before the end of the year. Whether or not that is allowed/required from transient foreign tax residents, I am uncertain, but I imagine it must be.

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7 hours ago, Lorry said:

There is a video of a discussion about the new tax rules at the French embassy.

Discussion of this video on AN has been blocked twice, because the video is mainly in French. Moderator said an English translation or summary of the video would be ok.

I listened only to the part after 56:17 minutes where the DTA between France and Thailand is discussed  (about pensions), about 6 minutes.

 

Summary:

These 6 minutes are an incredible mess of different opinions in Thai, French and English about what the DTA says. Complete confusion. The participants of the discussion can't agree on the most basic things. 

 

What I take from this is: if the RD does something like this in front of cameras at the French embassy, I can imagine how I would fare if my view of a DTA is different from their views.

There are many on AN, especially Mike Lister, who say don't worry,  the DTAs will protect you. 

Others like me have always said the use of DTAs will be extremely complicated,  laborious and expensive.

The French video most definitely supports my point.

On the other side, I know of one case where a provincial office of the RD was very knowledgeable about a DTA and it was smooth sailing along the lines of Mike Lister et al. Hopefully these people will prevail.

 

This post uses English language only, please do not delete it.

 

 

That French video has caused more problems than it has solved. This is why we only allow English language content. It is possible to watch the video on Youtube and to toggle the language setting to obtain an English language translation. I did that and watched some of it but gave up because of the chaos it contained, as you have alluded to. The video has French and Thai tax people, debating the language used to interpret the DTA and failing to conclusively agree, yet continuing to debate without that agreement, it's nonsense. It's my view that everyone, apart from the French, will be better off not paying attention to the video. The argument that what is said in it will apply to all nationalities, not just the French, is fallacious because all DTA's are different.

 

Secondly, you wrote, "There are many on AN, especially Mike Lister, who say don't worry,  the DTAs will protect you". I don't believe I or anyone else has actually said that! What many of us have said is that a DTA should ensure that the same income is not taxed twice, by two countries. We didn't tell you not to worry and we didn't imply that a DTA will protect you from all manner of bad things, just that it should, if used correctly,  prevent double taxation.

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13 hours ago, Lorry said:

But what is the earliest you can file?

Can you really file in July if you leave the country for the rest of the year?

 

Practical importance:

Retirees already have one fix date (ok, it's not one day, it's about a month) when they HAVE TO be in Thailand: the yearly extension.

If you stay here longer,  sooner or later comes a year where this is very inconvenient.

Is there now a second period  - Jan 1st to March 31st - where you HAVE TO be here at some time to file your taxes? IIRC foreigners cannot file online, I certainly won't try to file taxes online when I am not in Thailand. 

(there are 2 good reasons for me not to be here between Jan 1st and March 31st: air quality and tourists)

 

You can usually file on the first working day on the new year.  I remember once online filing was delayed by about a week due to a glitch.  No you can't file early but you can file late, if willing to pay the late fine which is not much. You can file online from abroad, if you can cope with the Thai language pop-ups in tiny print

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I enquired about getting certified statements from a bank where I have an account in HK, not expecting anything.  Two weeks later I finally got a reply saying that certified statements can be ordered for HK$50.  So I will get one for Dec 2023.

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The question that many ask themselves and I ask myself too is whether we will be asked when we renew our visa if we have filed our taxes? If this is the case, but it remains to be confirmed what will happen in concrete terms, let's assume that I don't declare anything and that they don't give me an extension of the visa, obviously I will have to leave when the visa expires, but I have the possibility of leaving and requesting another visa or Will I be marked as persona non grata? The issues in this case follow one another and could go very distant and not pleasant.

 

For those who are not far behind the 560,000 should ask themselves if the game is worth the risk.

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2 hours ago, BE88 said:

The question that many ask themselves and I ask myself too is whether we will be asked when we renew our visa if we have filed our taxes?

I guess you and those many others will find out when you go to renew your visa. If you're supposed to file and didn't, then you may have something to worry about. If you filed, and they ask you, then you have nothing to worry about, right?

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A poster in another thread passed comment about the tax guide that made me think, The following is my reply which I'm cross posting here in order to get thoughts and opinions:

 

I recognised some weeks/months ago that the entire document needs to be rewritten/reformatted and structured differently, it has grown because new pieces have been added/inserted piecemeal, to the point where it is now clumsy and confused reading. What I had wanted to do was to provide two parts to each topic, "what the rules say" and "what we think". I haven't had the time to do that recently, mostly because tax thread management has taken up so much of my time......(you know who you are!). If you or anyone else has thoughts about this, I'll be interested to hear them. Similarly, if there's anyone out there who is interested in participating in this rewrite, please contact me.

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9 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I guess you and those many others will find out when you go to renew your visa. If you're supposed to file and didn't, then you may have something to worry about. If you filed, and they ask you, then you have nothing to worry about, right?

 

Exactly, if you have made investments in Thailand and they tell you that you have to stay out for a year or three years to avoid paying 5000 in taxes I find it very risky but if you are free to change the country without regrets or losses then try your luck if you have to pay high taxes in Thailand.

 

 

 

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