Red-Shirts Blamed For Gunfights, Bomb Attacks

[TAWP]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

If you think anyone used a Barret .50cal for urban warfare sniper/counter-sniping in this event, then wow...just wow.

[moresomekl]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

I hope this is your first and last inane post.

ALL assault rifles are "high powered".

"ALL assault rifles are "high powered." LOL I never once mentioned the word assault. Do you normally have such reading problems ?

Anyhow I got this information from the nation newspaper, who are calling it a super powered rifle. They go on to say that these weapons are used by specially trained gunmen particularly in the army. Hmmm now what does that seem to say ?

super powered != high powered

not the same thing.

high powered is usually meaning that the rifle shoots supersonic bullets.

and with the reference to assault rifles, I wanted to say since both sides have assault rifles, the fact that the wounds have been caused by "high powered" weapons does not mean the military are the only guys responsible.

This is a caliber 50 snipper riffle . Wow . We are a long way from tear gas and water cannon LOL . Not that there is any proof of course

[RussellHantz]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

I hope this is your first and last inane post.

ALL assault rifles are "high powered".

"ALL assault rifles are "high powered." LOL I never once mentioned the word assault. Do you normally have such reading problems ?

Anyhow I got this information from the nation newspaper, who are calling it a super powered rifle. They go on to say that these weapons are used by specially trained gunmen particularly in the army. Hmmm now what does that seem to say ?

super powered != high powered

not the same thing.

Please tell that to the nation editors, they headline it with super and use high-power in the article. Not all of use are rifle professors such as yourself.

cant post a link cos low post count.

[Ricardo]

All Red Shirt security personnel wear black and you must be one of the few who actually listen to Seh Daeng. As far as I know the Red Shirt leadership pay no attention to him. I haven't seen the clips showing gunmen dressed in black roaming through the crowds and firing in a forwards direction or at buildings. I have seen the clip showing soldiers firing in a forwards direction at Red Shirts. Were these soldiers in fact terrorists dressed as soldiers?

"Were these soldiers in fact terrorists dressed as soldiers ?"

These were gunmen dressed in black, surrounded by Red-Shirts and firing guns, which seems to me unlikely behaviour for a loyal soldier of the Thai army, or a regular peaceful-protest Red-Shirt supporter. Perhaps PM-Abhisit is right to call them terrorists.

And I listen to Sae Daeng, like the other self-proclaimed red-leaders (were any of them ever elected ?), as they call for violence & destruction in pursuit of what Veera recently called 'a new Thai state'. Can they not rely on getting elected, like any other politician, or is there some hidden-motive for needing to get results right now ? Whose needs might that serve ?

[britmaveric]

If you think anyone used a Barret .50cal for urban warfare sniper/counter-sniping in this event, then wow...just wow.

I'd thought they would have used M19 or smth similar, def not an AK47.

[RussellHantz]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

If you think anyone used a Barret .50cal for urban warfare sniper/counter-sniping in this event, then wow...just wow.

I took the photo from the related nation article.

A lot of highly strung ppl on this forum !

[Xangsamhua]

The Bangkok Pundit quote below has Seh Daeng admitting his guys were probably in the mix in the exchange of fire [and the continuation of fire on the troops as they were retrieving their wounded], but he claims it was in response to army sniper fire from Satriwithaya School.

Not one for quoting Seh Daeng, but he referred to the military being leaderless at a point - will include the full quote of what he said given the controversy. Matichon reports him as saying the mistake of the Army C-in-C was to use snipers on the building at Satri Wittaya school and this caused many people to die (ความผิดของ ผบ.ทบ. คือใช้คนซุ่มยิงที่บนหลังคาตึกโรงเรียนสตรีวิทยา ซึ่งสาเหตุที่คนตายจำนวนมาก) because the result of using snipers to kill the people first (เพราะพลซุ่มยิงของทหารได้ยิงลงมาใส่ประชาชนก่อน) caused one group of persons whose identity is unknown or the Ronin fighters to respond (ทำให้กองกำลังไม่ทราบฝ่ายหรือนักรบโรนินยิงตอบโต้) by using a M79 grenade which then hit the military tent next to Satri Wittaya school which the military used as the command centre (ลูกระเบิดเอ็ม 79 ลูกแรกที่ยิงเข้าไปตกเต็นท์ทหารข้างโรงเรียนสตรีวิทยา ที่ใช้เป็นกองบัญชาการรบครั้งนี้) and this caused a serious injury to Maj General Valit the Commander of the forces (ทำให้โดน พล.ต.วลิต..ซึ่งเป็นแม่ทัพในการทำศึกครั้งนี้บาดเจ็บสาหัส) and many other senior military officials (และโดนนายทหารชั้นสัญญาบัตรหลายคนก็บาดเจ็บ) so there was no commander to issue orders (ทำให้การศึกครั้งนี้ไม่มีคนสั่ง).

http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...tely-unprepared

[tgw]

Sae Daeng has to choose a story between deliberately targeting senior officers commanding the troops and responding to sniper fire...

And as for the army using snipers to deliberately kill people by shooting from a roof, especially a japanese cameraman... I don't believe it one second.

Edited April 12, 2010 by tgw

[TheOldWolf]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

[Xangsamhua]

Sae Daeng has to choose a story between deliberately targeting senior officers commanding the troops and responding to sniper fire...

Yes, and he's hardly Mr. Believable.

[britmaveric]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

The ones behind the current....

[lannarebirth]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

I don't see anything they have to gain from this. I do see where opportunists might see benefit in implicating them however. Most of the Red Shirt crowd doesn't know the real reason they're there. Rhetoric like Chavalits helps insert the wedge they need for future application of their plan. All IMO of course.

Edited April 12, 2010 by lannarebirth

[tgw]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

Mr. T and buddies.

This group is the only one gaining something.

I hope higher powers stop them.

Edited April 12, 2010 by tgw

[RussellHantz]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

Mr. T and buddies.

This group is the only one gaining something.

I hope higher powers stop them.

I hope your not suggesting the obnoxious scenario of a military coup.

Because elections are the next step and its highly likely that Thaksins party will form government.

The only way Thaksins opponents will prevent this is to engage in massive electoral and/or judicial corruption and pray not to get caught.

[tgw]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

Mr. T and buddies.

This group is the only one gaining something.

I hope higher powers stop them.

I hope your not suggesting the obnoxious scenario of a military coup.

Because elections are the next step and its highly likely that Thaksins party will form government.

The only way Thaksins opponents will prevent this is to engage in massive electoral and/or judicial corruption and pray not to get caught.

arfff...

Thailand is a constitutional MONARCHY.

'nuff said.

My hopes are together with most hopes of Thai people... in one person. May Buddha help him.

[RussellHantz]

What would the Privy council gain from this? I think Mr T is the last man in the world rem wants in power. What would PAD gain from this? Even if they don´t love present goverment, they don´t want a red goverment. What would the gover ment and army gain from this? Nothing.

Whick part in the conflict would gain from this?

Mr. T and buddies.

This group is the only one gaining something.

I hope higher powers stop them.

I hope your not suggesting the obnoxious scenario of a military coup.

Because elections are the next step and its highly likely that Thaksins party will form government.

The only way Thaksins opponents will prevent this is to engage in massive electoral and/or judicial corruption and pray not to get caught.

arfff...

Thailand is a constitutional MONARCHY.

'nuff said.

My hopes are together with most hopes of Thai people... in one person. May Buddha help him.

beyond politics. 'nuff said.

[moresomekl]

And now the EC talking about dissolving the dems .

Our friends here jdinasia , animatic and anotherpeter

will be happy am sure

[RussellHantz]

And now the EC talking about dissolving the dems .

Our friends here jdinasia , animatic and anotherpeter

will be happy am sure

probably looking for a new job as we speak

[tracymeaw]

A 3rd element would certainly be a possibility in a situation that is clearly driven out of control by the governments' use of excessive force. What is certain is that the men in these videos do not hold the weapons you have listed and did not deserve to be murdered. The fact that they were holding flags in their hands makes it even more obvious that this was not a case of mistaken identity and these actions were deliberate in nature.

Was this guy standing with the flag "murdered" or was it an accidental shot in a struggle for a weapon?

It was clear the the guy was NOT shot by the army that the reds were fighting to the left of the screen.

The shot came from the right and IMO from close range, and given the top of his head was gone, it probably came from lower down. The guy in black that had just walked out from under the awning/building had something small in his hands and it also appeared that there were people holding someone down after the guy was shot.

Also, the BBC video clearly showed red shirts firing weapons. It didn't show the guy in the pickup that got shot, just comments from the eyewitness that he was up high and got shot in the chest. It could have come from the army responding to being fired on, or it could have come from the red shirts.

Glad you have an answer for everything. It’s nice to see that TV is full of Forensics Experts these days.

Why don’t you try and explain away the failure of the government to use the minimum force necessary under the circumstances. It is painfully obvious to the entire free world that their actions were in no way proportional to the threat. That is when this mess spiraled out of control.

Concerning the videos, I choose to use the eyewitness report, he was there, not you. I see no redshirts firing weapons in the BBC video as you claim but I do see the man that was shot.

The other video which you claim may have been a misfire… if you freeze the last second, you will see that the guy in black that was carrying a small item was apparently a red shirt guard as h is clearly seen providing aid to two or three other redshirts that were injured. Did the alleged misfire hit 3 people…Nice try! Next!

You paid trolls will like this one:

'There were no live bullets fired at protesters,' Panitan Wattanayagorn

said in press conference shown on national television.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431234

Cheers

[toybits]

Not easy lugging around a 30 pound weapon like this. And yes, it is probably military that would have access to a 50 Cal. Barret (Model 82A1). If you got hit by one of this babies, it would probably take your head off.

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

[innbkknow]

Thaskin The Terrorist, everyone wins and more importantly this has some serious credentials.

[hextac]

This topic title is misleading. Not sure how they can blame the reds for the gunfight, there were 14 reds dead and 4 soldiers, and most of the reds died from high power rifles, these are weapons issued by the military.

Not easy lugging around a 30 pound weapon like this. And yes, it is probably military that would have access to a 50 Cal. Barret (Model 82A1). If you got hit by one of this babies, it would probably take your head off.

You've seen the grotesque video on youtube then?

[onthewire]

Well I think I have worked it out.....

This might cause a storm:

Who has the power to shot both sides and who benefits?

Someone who is in the pocket of the Thaksin (has the power) and you can not say his name and his father is not living at home because he is scared of someone killing him......

Shoot both sides a few dead bodies causes terror... what did Joseph Goebbels say:

Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death.

Something to think about?????

It is not the PAD or Sae Daeng

feel sorry for the Army and the reds were used as prawns in a bigger boys game.

[mauiguy90]

"Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????"

If you don't know who the third hand is, ask your significant other. Thai people know who it is but few want to share it with foreigners. Its a shocker...

Edited April 12, 2010 by mauiguy90

[elcent]

The Bangkok Pundit quote below has Seh Daeng admitting his guys were probably in the mix in the exchange of fire [and the continuation of fire on the troops as they were retrieving their wounded], but he claims it was in response to army sniper fire from Satriwithaya School.

Not one for quoting Seh Daeng, but he referred to the military being leaderless at a point - will include the full quote of what he said given the controversy. Matichon reports him as saying the mistake of the Army C-in-C was to use snipers on the building at Satri Wittaya school and this caused many people to die (ความผิดของ ผบ.ทบ. คือใช้คนซุ่มยิงที่บนหลังคาตึกโรงเรียนสตรีวิทยา ซึ่งสาเหตุที่คนตายจำนวนมาก) because the result of using snipers to kill the people first (เพราะพลซุ่มยิงของทหารได้ยิงลงมาใส่ประชาชนก่อน) caused one group of persons whose identity is unknown or the Ronin fighters to respond (ทำให้กองกำลังไม่ทราบฝ่ายหรือนักรบโรนินยิงตอบโต้) by using a M79 grenade which then hit the military tent next to Satri Wittaya school which the military used as the command centre (ลูกระเบิดเอ็ม 79 ลูกแรกที่ยิงเข้าไปตกเต็นท์ทหารข้างโรงเรียนสตรีวิทยา ที่ใช้เป็นกองบัญชาการรบครั้งนี้) and this caused a serious injury to Maj General Valit the Commander of the forces (ทำให้โดน พล.ต.วลิต..ซึ่งเป็นแม่ทัพในการทำศึกครั้งนี้บาดเจ็บสาหัส) and many other senior military officials (และโดนนายทหารชั้นสัญญาบัตรหลายคนก็บาดเจ็บ) so there was no commander to issue orders (ทำให้การศึกครั้งนี้ไม่มีคนสั่ง).

http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...tely-unprepared

If there would have been snipers then they would have used them just before the start of the crackdown, as it happened in 1992, and not in the middle of the firings as it is most likely that you can't target anybody in particular after the firing of rubber bullets started. To much movements.

This time they had rubber bullets ammutions which were not available in 1992. So why would they have to resort to snipers? In case there would have been snipers they would rather chose the black clads, even SaeDaeng himself, as target and not civillians and reporters.

[TheOldWolf]

"Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????"

If you don't know who the third hand is, ask your significant other. Thai people know who it is but few want to share it with foreigners. Its a shocker...

What would the "third Hand" gain from killing red protesters?

[elcent]

What would the "third Hand" gain from killing red protesters?

uproar!

[Xangsamhua]

"Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????"

If you don't know who the third hand is, ask your significant other. Thai people know who it is but few want to share it with foreigners. Its a shocker...

I doubt that rumoured third hand is the one Chavalit's referring to. Urban Legend?

[retarius]

Where is Sifu when you need him?

[onthewire]

"Who is the Party to Blame who shot reds and army????

Puea Thai Party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh on Monday repeated his call for Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House of Representatives immediately.

He said at a press conference that Mr Abhisit had made a big mistake by ordering soldiers to forcefully disperse the red-shirt protesters on Saturday night, thus allowing a third-hand party to step in and create violence.

Gen Chavalit said almost everybody knew who the third-hand was.

Who is the third Party any clue anyone?????"

If you don't know who the third hand is, ask your significant other. Thai people know who it is but few want to share it with foreigners. Its a shocker...

That's it hit the nail right on the head..... it was reported before, that he was a big support of the reds and it was rumoured that Thaskin was boasting about this a few months, before all this happened.....

The rest are just PRAWNS