Sleepless In Chiang Mai ?

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

After several unusual very sleepless nights, with our "old friends who come to help us sleep sometimes," Khun Xanax, and Khun One-Hour-of-Vipassana, failing to whisk us off to nowhere-dream-land ...

... note: said "sleeplessness" not accompanied by any particular states of mental anxiety, being "wired," or over-caffeinated, or any really "front burner" existential issues crying out for death-and-rebirth of either of our two psyches ...

And after our usual bedtime routine of a bicycle trip around midnight to lay in the next day's soy-milk supply (vigorous pedalling for about twelve minutes each way) ... then Vipassana ... then reading to sleep until the book drops out of our human's hands ... didn't work for three days ...

We consulted our friendly GP, Dr. Tawitchai, whom so many of you know, on Wednesday.

Could the moderate heat prostration of the previous Friday which left us wobbly and woozy for two days have been contributing to insomnia ? Could the fourth of the rabies shot series have triggered some weird thing ?

Dr. T., has only Xanax and barbituates in stock for sleep related things, although sometimes he has Diazepam (Valium). Dr. T. suggested we go to Suang Prung, the mental hospital, to see if they had some more advanced medication.

We have a prejudice against barbituates in that they, to our knowledge, leave your mind "clouded" : but we have to admit we're not up on the "evolution" in the last fifteen years of barbituate related psychotropic drugs, so, for all we know, there may be wonderful new forms of them that promote sleep, but do not have the "blurred mind" residual of the barbituates in use say twenty years ago.

So, yesterday: we went out to Suang Prung went through the intake process, filled out forms, had an intake interview, mainly in Thai with a Nurse, and then saw a relatively young psychiatrist.

Dr. J.'s spoken English was not that good, but between our Thai and his English we could communicate.

He did a good a job, we thought, of doing what any professional psychiatrist, clnical psychologist, or social worker, or, therapists of other flavours, would do : focusing on identifying the immediate symptoms first, then questioning us about medications we have taken or take, then asking questions trying to discern if there are clinical-level psychological issues : depression ? mania ? anxiety ? grief ? panic attacks ? hallucinations ? sensory distortions ? obsessive-compulsive behavior ?

We felt it best not to disclose to Dr. J. that inside the human form appearing before him existed an Orang soul and mind, as well as a human soul and mind, and that, as far as the human could know, the sleep problem was his problem, not the problem of the Orang who dwells inside the human's body.

After all we were there for a problem with sleeplessness, not a problem about who we are : why confuse a friendly young Thai psychiatrist with existential non-issues of singularities of co-incarnation combining primate species ?

So, Dr. J. recommended Diazepam (Valium), which we'd tried once before, for sleeplessness, with no effect whatsoever.

Total cost of the visit including everything : registration, blood pressure and weight and height measure, intake interview with Nurse, interview with Doctor, and one month supply of Diazepam : 118 baht !

All in all quite a positive impression of Suang Prung. Of course the young Dr. doing intake yesterday is, we guess, "lower down the totem pole" in the staff hierarchy. And we guess: that; like when you go to Maharaj Sriphat: you might have to kind of "work your way up" to higher-level staff with perhaps accredited training in Europe or America, or who might be professors if you have more major problems. But that's sheer speculation.

fyi : Suang Prung has no specific "sleep clinic," but they do, Dr. J. informed me, take somnograms, where you sleep in, and are neurologically monitored, and he said they have neurologists on the staff with training in sleep disorders.

So, we then go to the Centara and sauna ourselves into oblivion, roasting our human meat-package multiple times while doing yogic pranayama. We meet a very friendly Italian man in the sauna, and when we tell him we "worship" Dante, he is very pleased : he quotes us a beautiful stanza from the "Inferno" (Canto IIVI ?) which translates out as :

"Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge." Of couse in Italian (which we do not know) the sound of the language is so "liquidly" beautiful.

Coming home by bicycle at night, on our way to fill up our soy-milk tanks, we are approached by a very "butch gay" Thai guy who drives his motosai up next to us at a red light, and asks us where we are going. We have our human body point up toward the sky with his index finger, and say, in Thai : "bai suwan" (to heaven). Being approached like that is very rare in our experience in Thailand (normally gay males [or, dammit, straight females] show no interest in what's left of our human's male body in spite of its awesome lingering traces of prowess past) : perhaps the sight of our giant 35 baht straw Issarn rice-farmer hat did something for this motorcyclist ?

And so it goes, another happy day in Chiang Mai.

We get home, take the Diazepam about 10:30PM : stay sleepless until 1:15AM, and wake up at 5:30AM feeling like we had a good sleep (normal sleep pattern used to be at least eight hours).

Hope you are sleeping well.

"You know you're in love when you can't fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams.” Dr. Suess

But, dammit, we're not in love right now : can't afford it !

best, ~o:37;

Edited April 17, 2010 by orang37

[IanForbes]

Good luck there, Bill. I know my metabolism has completely changed in the two weeks I've been home in Canada. I think the heat had something to do with it.

[iainiain101]

Took the mother in law to Suang Prung for sleepless nights, and after a lengthy examination, the verdict was...'you thinking too much'. Years supply of Diazepam perscribed. It started as a moths supply, but after no great response in a month and a return visit to be told the drugs take a year to work!

Iain

[Loaded]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

[Toolz]

Like that!

[PhilHarries]

Shame you can't get a television feed from the UK. Five minutes in front of the hauted fishtank in Blighty and I'm sending up the zed's jet lag or not.

[whiterussian]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

Koon orang!

Wonderful post! thank you and good luck!

A non prescription drug that knocks my human meat-bag out for the count (in an eyelid dropping fashion while pondering the meaning of Thai soap operas) is 'Atarax'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyzine

an anti-histamine.. non barbiturate.

My meat-bag is 95kg and 6'2" and half a tab does the job.

I would very much like to extract the chemicals in lettuce, which are similar to opiates, or indeed there is the MDMA in nutmeg... I have no time at the moment to explore these things.

[elektrified]

"...We felt it best not to disclose to Dr. J. that inside the human form appearing before him existed an Orang soul and mind, as well as a human soul and mind, and that, as far as the human could know, the sleep problem was his problem, not the problem of the Orang who dwells inside the human's body..."

Oh come on, why didn't you clue him in on your condition? Maybe he would have asked you to stay there a while and talk more about it.

[CMX]

"But, dammit, we're not in love right now : can't afford it !"

Ahem

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

!!!!

(You do have your moments. )

[NancyL]

Orang, hope your sleeplessness is getting better.

I'm having trouble sleeping in this hot weather because our aircons can't "keep up". Today I did a detailed inspection of the windows and doors and found some home-improvement projects for Hubby to reduce hot air (and mosquito) infiltration. Hope that helps.

Last week we had just about everything electrical cranking and managed to blow our electric panels so badly we knew we'd need professional help to correct the problem. So, we spent the night in a hotel with their aircon dailed down to 18 deg F (about 64 deg F) and I think it actually cooled the room down to that temp. Ah the bliss! It was the best night's sleep I've had for weeks, even though I should have been worried about the contents of our full refrigerator/freezer at home, which I'd just spent thousands of baht stocking so we wouldn't have to venture out during Songkran.

Also, I, too, find visits to the Centara health club help me fall asleep later that evening. But, I have to engage in an hour of fairly vigorous physical activity to experience the "Centara effect" to fall asleep quickly. Orang, I hope you're using the Centara's facilities for more than just the sauna/steam room.

[orang37]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Loaded,

We feel a surge of mental health troops infiltrating our mountain caves and tunnels as we read this wonderful comment : the rebels are retreating, leaving love-notes in their wake

best, ~o:37;

[sbk]

Ambien is the drug of choice when it comes to sleeplessness Orang

I've heard load up on carbohydrates, they make you sleepy.

[Blinky Bill]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Loaded,

We feel a surge of mental health troops infiltrating our mountain caves and tunnels as we read this wonderful comment : the rebels are retreating, leaving love-notes in their wake

best, ~o:37;

Dear Khun ~o:37;,

I am rather surprised that the young Dr. J. didn't admit you for observation.

[orang37]

... snip ... Many Thais recommend putting on a A non prescription drug that knocks my human meat-bag out for the count (in an eyelid dropping fashion while pondering the meaning of Thai soap operas) is 'Atarax.'

Sawasdee Khrup Khun WhiteRussian,

Thanks for mentioning that ! We'll look into that one, study up on it, see if it's available in CM under, or over, the counter.

I would very much like to extract the chemicals in lettuce, which are similar to opiates, or indeed there is the MDMA in nutmeg... I have no time at the moment to explore these things.

Well, that's some interesting vegetable/spice alchemy. Let us share some of your lettuce extract, if you please, but we'd have to pass on nutmeg juice: it's a bad enough trip just looking in a mirror as it is.

In saying this, we must also say we say this with all due respect for the "Friends of Nutmeg" foundation and their research, and strongly condemn the long prison sentences handed down with no semi-colons or even parentheses in Kyrgyzstan to those Kyrgyz nutmeg activists who were exercising their traditional pastoral-shamanic rituals which are as much an intergral part of their culture as drinking kymyz, fermented mare's milk.

best, ~o:37;

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

well when you can't go to sleep then what seems to be the problem?

Are you experiencing an emotion? is your mind too busy? Do you notice a particular organ more than usual? are their associated symptoms out of the ordinary which might be correlated to the insomnia?

If your body does not want to sleep then listen to what it's trying to tell you. Since your body is separated already from your mind then it should be easier than most people who deny that relationship.

Medicating up might help in the short term but I think better to let your body find a baseline and equilibrium. Water fasting can help with that especially if its some sort of dehydration or heat stroke type of thing. Not sleeping can't last very long. Maybe you don't need it anymore.

[orang37]

well when you can't go to sleep then what seems to be the problem?

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Cobranecktie,

We appreciate your concern for us !

We agree with you that medication is no long-term solution. And we hope this is a short-term phenomenon related to some pretty ordinary bio-chemical imbalance. And it's true that humans, as they age, often experience less sleep, and less quality sleep.

We have both our minds, which are both separated from our body, but living inside it, listening to their one body, most of the time. We hear mainly re-runs of old radio plays by Stiller and Meara.

We are experiencing frequent dreams of your necktie, however.

best, ~o:37;

[Ulysses G.]

So, we spent the night in a hotel with their aircon dailed down to 18 deg F (about 64 deg F) and I think it actually cooled the room down to that temp. Ah the bliss! It was the best night's sleep I've had for weeks,

This works best for me, but right now the aircon is struggling to even make the bedroom bearable and I hate to buy a new one as it is OK during rainy season. By the way orang, lettuce opium does pretty much nothing at all.

[PeaceBlondie]

Best of luck to you, orang.

[Scott]

One post advocating illegal substances has been deleted.

[whiterussian]

When a stem or leaf from a Wild Lettuce plant is broken or cut, it will bleed a thick milky sap. The dried sap is often referred to as Lettuce Opium, though it contains no opiates. This sap can be extracted many ways, but the most common is by soaking plant material in alcohol. After several weeks, the plant material is filtered out. This extract is usually called Lactucarium. The usual way of consuming Lactucarium is by dissolving a few drops into tea.

Wild Lettuce was also used by the Romans and Augustus was said to have raised a statue in honor of the Lettuce infusion that he claimed saved his life. The Roman naturalist Gaius Plinius Secundus (23 AD - 79 AD) , better known as Pliny the Elder wrote extensively of Lactuca in his work Naturalis Historia:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?l...p;group=typecat

Lactucarium was produced by pharmaceutical companies until about the 1940's.

Koon Orang... I will locate some of this stuff, and make an extract, I will be the guinea pig!

Edited April 17, 2010 by whiterussian

[eek]

I hope you get back into a natural sleeping pattern soon Orang.

[mcgriffith]

Yeah, orang, starting to worry about you, you leaf eating tree critter.

Is it possible all the soy milk and bicycling and healthy holistic habits have turned on you?

Maybe go Tantric; purge the lower chakras.

Meet you at Hasher's Pub, double margaritas then off to the depths of Kampaengdin Road.

Bring a 9mm and if you have any body armor it wouldn't hurt (no pun intended).

Seriously, I hope you get over this sleep deprivation thing.

I just read a column in NYT/IHT that detailed the devastation that insomnia does to one's psyche and everyday demeanor.

The writer has had all the most high tech treatments...still goes through what she called her "rough patches"- meaning 4-5 hours sleep total in a 5 day period. That sounds horrific to me.

I don't think the Valium or the Ativan or any of the other soporifics are a good plan. Way too much possibility of physical dependency.

Let us know what you find out...I suspect there are a lot of people here and everywhere who suffer from this, who will be interested in hearing what the treatment that worked for you was, and what you have to say about it....

[IanForbes]

Many Thais recommend putting on a security guards uniform. You'll be asleep in no time even if you only have an uncomfortable old metal chair to sit on.

Thanks for the laugh... oh so true.

[orang37]

I will locate some of this stuff, and make an extract, I will be the guinea pig!

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun White Russian,

Thanks for a most educational, and literate, post !

fyi : even before we became a twosome, when my onesome (human) had his hip replaced around 1998, we found we were very intolerant of morphine : the onesome had a typical after-surgery morphine rig in : you could press a button to get more up to a certain limit per day. The nurses and doctors were very curious to see how little the onesome used : the onesome explained to them it made him feel over-heated, and like he was hyper-caffeinated, and sleepless, too.

Much better experience using a time-release fentanyl patch (for about one month) during the worst part of recovery from post-radiotherapy and chemo three years ago. But we had a huge episode of a kind of "mania" for three-four days when we discontinued it : that "mania" included lack of sleep, a compulsion to makes lists of everything : most unusual considering our disorderly human's "normal" pattern of conduct.

If your sty is big enough for two guinea pigs, we would like to join you as you sample your lettuce-shine: if the sty is too small for two, we could take turns ? Okay, if you really want to be the one and only, the "true," guinea-pig, can we just watch and oink empathetical ?

best, ~o:37;

p.s. found this on Wikipedia re lettuce extract : Lactucarium

Edited April 18, 2010 by orang37

[orang37]

Yeah, orang, starting to worry about you, you leaf eating tree critter.

Is it possible all the soy milk and bicycling and healthy holistic habits have turned on you?

Maybe go Tantric; purge the lower chakras.

Meet you at Hasher's Pub, double margaritas then off to the depths of Kampaengdin Road.

Bring a 9mm and if you have any body armor it wouldn't hurt (no pun intended).

Seriously, I hope you get over this sleep deprivation thing.

I just read a column in NYT/IHT that detailed the devastation that insomnia does to one's psyche and everyday demeanor.

The writer has had all the most high tech treatments...still goes through what she called her "rough patches"- meaning 4-5 hours sleep total in a 5 day period. That sounds horrific to me.

I don't think the Valium or the Ativan or any of the other soporifics are a good plan. Way too much possibility of physical dependency.

Let us know what you find out...I suspect there are a lot of people here and everywhere who suffer from this, who will be interested in hearing what the treatment that worked for you was, and what you have to say about it....

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun McGriffith,

Thanks for your concern for these two hairs in the ear of a tick in the ear of a flea in the ear of mangy soi dog. The idea of a kind of "holistic backfire" : that does remind us of two poems: one by Blake, one by Walt Whitman, as well as Jung's development of the concept of "enantidromia" (expressed by Plato), but we'll spare you the bloody morph-from-opposite-to-opposite details.

We'd love to go Tantric, but can't afford it with all the trimmings, the way it should be served, al dente, and so forth.

We've never been to Hasher's Pub, don't drink alcohol in any form, and are not familiar with Kampaengdin as an area of Chiang Mai, but we'd like to meet Margarita if she's single, desperate, literate, can dance, etc. Wow, if she's a double, like us, we'd really like to meet both of her.

In Kampaengdin Road are there Shaktis of the human female-at-birth variety who are also devotees of Tantric yab-yum ? Yeah, it's quite possible our lower chakras are all bunged up now to protect against leaks of Self below the water-line during recovery from cancer, and the desertion of She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed during the treatment for higher (lower ?) ground.

Or perhaps "Kampaengdin Road" is Pali for a state of consciousness we don't know, you know, like "Abbey Road" ?

Last two days : less than ten hours of sleep. But, remarkably clear mentally for all that.

And now : it's time to go to Laos !

best, ~o:37;

[Rasseru]

Sawasdee khrap, khun orang37,

I do hope you are both doing well, and getting more and better sleep than before.

[Loaded]

Or perhaps "Kampaengdin Road" is Pali for a state of consciousness we don't know, you know, like "Abbey Road" ?

literally it means wall-of-soil road.

euphemistically it means red-light area to most Chiang Mai Thais and a few farang 'explorers'.

seriously try Chinese acupuncture or herbal remedies at Munkla Clinic near Tha Pae Gate

[eek]

Good luck on your trip to Laos!

[Ulysses G.]

Or perhaps "Kampaengdin Road" is Pali for a state of consciousness we don't know, you know, like "Abbey Road" ?

literally it means wall-of-soil road.

euphemistically it means red-light area to most Chiang Mai Thais and a few farang 'explorers'.

Wasn't that long, long ago?