Uk Settlement - Sponsor Question.

[seefah]

I've been living in Thailand for a few years with my Thai fiancée and our son, but are now considering a UK settlement visa. How important is the amount of money the sponsor has when submitting the application/documentation? Basically funds are low at present, would it cause too much of an issue?

[tfcpattaya]

You need to be able to show that you can properly support her after you get to the UK, so yes it can be a big deal.

[Thongkorn]

One of the biggest problems would be place of abode, And your Bank balance (bank statements), also your Job reference.

[sumrit]

You will need to show that you have adequate income/funds to live in the UK without your wife/fiance needing access to public funds. Although there is no minimum amount quoted for this the guidelines are that you will need at least the same as the UK income support levels available. If your income isn't enough you can use any savings you have to subsidise it.

[seefah]

What work I had finished some time ago, so already been living off of savings, which are now quite low.

I do have accommodation available for us to stay, provided by a family member. Also, I have a UK company, although it is currently dormant, not sure if that would help any. Of course, as I've been living out here, I have no work to return to in the UK.

[sumrit]

What work I had finished some time ago, so already been living off of savings, which are now quite low.

Unfortunately you will have to show you either have sufficient savings or paid employment in the UK (or employment that will continue to pay you after you move to the UK) or a combination or the two. Although as you have been living in Thailand for a few years having a secure job offer from a UK employer may be acceptable.

Another option could be third party financial support, from a relative for example. In this instance the relative would have to write a letter confirming he/she is offering to help financially and supply proof (bank statements, etc) that they have the funds available.

Another thought if funds are tight, you say you'd be taking your fiance, it would be cheaper to get married in Thailand before coming to the UK because if she travels on a fiance settlement visa (which costs the same as a 27 month spouse settlement visa) it will only be valid for six months, during which time you must get married anyway, then you will have to pay a further £400 for a two year FLR stamp in her passport. If she comes as your wife you won't have to pay that extra £400.

[Phil_ne_uk]

What work I had finished some time ago, so already been living off of savings, which are now quite low.

Unfortunately you will have to show you either have sufficient savings or paid employment in the UK (or employment that will continue to pay you after you move to the UK) or a combination or the two. Although as you have been living in Thailand for a few years having a secure job offer from a UK employer may be acceptable.

Another option could be third party financial support, from a relative for example. In this instance the relative would have to write a letter confirming he/she is offering to help financially and supply proof (bank statements, etc) that they have the funds available.

Another thought if funds are tight, you say you'd be taking your fiance, it would be cheaper to get married in Thailand before coming to the UK because if she travels on a fiance settlement visa (which costs the same as a 27 month spouse settlement visa) it will only be valid for six months, during which time you must get married anyway, then you will have to pay a further £400 for a two year FLR stamp in her passport. If she comes as your wife you won't have to pay that extra £400.

I don’t think third party financial support is acceptable as the couple need to prove that they can support themselves. Not having others support them.

If you borrowed money from someone and stated it was a gift, that might work.

Seefah, how many years have you lived together? If it’s more than 2 years she can qualify for settlement without getting married, unless of course you want to.

See this link for more info. maintenance and accommodation requirements

Edited May 3, 2010 by Phil_ne_uk

[sumrit]

I don’t think third party financial support is acceptable as the couple need to prove that they can support themselves. Not having others support them.

Third party support is acceptable. Judgement was given in favour of it in the UK High Court on the 16th December 2009.

See these links:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Uk-Settlemen...rt-t330941.html

http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/docs/uksc_2...95_judgment.pdf

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2009/16.html

In plain English it says people can use third party financial support and don't have to have to have the funds available themselves.

[7by7]

As said, you have to show that you can support and accommodate yourselves without recourse to public funds.

The accommodation can be provided by a third party, such as a family member, and they should write a letter of invitation which briefly describes the accommodation available, showing that there is at least one room for the exclusive use of you and your fiance and another for your son (unless he is an infant, in which case he can share with you). If they own the property they should provide proof of this, such as a mortgage statement or copy of the deeds. If they rent then a letter from their landlord confirming that you can live there and that there is room for you.

Finances can come from your own resources, those of a third party or a combination of both. However, unless you have sufficient independent means, you will need to show what your employment prospects are and what steps you have taken to find employment once in the UK.

Whoever is contributing toward your financial support should provide evidence, bank statements, payslips, of their ability to do so.

There is no minimum amount of finances required, but various court judgments have determined that it would be inappropriate for an immigrant family to live on less than the income support level for a British family of the same size.

See Maintenance and accommodation for more details.

As Sumrit says, marrying in Thailand and obtaining a 27 month spouse visa would be cheaper than a 6 month fiance visa and then FLR after the marriage in the UK.

However, as Phil ne uk says, if you can demonstrate that you and your fiance have been living together in a relationship akin to marriage for at least the last two years then she can apply for a 27 month visa as your unmarried partner. See SET05 - Unmarried and same sex partners. Doing so would not, of course, prevent you from marrying at a later date should you wish to do so.

[Phil_ne_uk]

I didn’t think third part financial support was acceptable as it states the following on here

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/maintenan...dation#18177479

MAA8 maintenance & accommodation: spouse / civil partner / unmarried or same-sex partner

Under the Rules a person being admitted as a spouse / civil partner / unmarried or same-sex partner must have adequate maintenance and accommodation for both parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds in accommodation which they own or occupy exclusively (see MAA12).

Points to consider:

• It is the ability of the couple together to meet the requirements, which the ECO will need to take into account.

• The applicant should be able to produce reasonably firm plans for the foreseeable future.

• Have they some idea of the employment which they will be seeking (if not already arranged) or any other way in which they will be able to maintain themselves?

• If members of the couple’s families in the UK offer to maintain the couple adequately until they can do so from their own resources, such an arrangement would not satisfy the Rules, which require the couple to maintain themselves. Nevertheless, it may be appropriate in certain circumstances to exercise discretion where it is clear that such an arrangement will be for a limited period and that the couple will be in a position to maintain themselves shortly after the applicant’s arrival in the UK.

• Have adequate arrangements for the couple’s accommodation for the foreseeable future been made?

[seefah]

Thanks for the links and information. Lots to read.

We have been living together for over 2 years, almost four. Therefore I think applying for the unmarried settlement visa would be the best option for us (?) and then we can get married in the UK. Is it the same form for unmarried settlement visa as Document VAF4A?

How does this affect the FLR and the process afterwards?

Regarding accommodation, I have a letter of invitation from my family member. They do own the property but I don't have any proof of that here, just the letter of invitation.

Regarding funds, it would seem that the only two possible options would be to get more work here (seems quite hard now, either teaching IT/English or doing something else), or to ask for assistance from a relation and pay them back later. Am I correct in thinking that the minimum would be ~£150 per week, based on a couple and one child, which is the same as the support allowance? If applying for the 27 month visa as my unmarried partner, how much money would I need to prove being available to us?

[7by7]

I didn't think third part financial support was acceptable as it states the following on here

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/maintenan...dation#18177479

• If members of the couple's families in the UK offer to maintain the couple adequately until they can do so from their own resources, such an arrangement would not satisfy the Rules, which require the couple to maintain themselves. Nevertheless, it may be appropriate in certain circumstances to exercise discretion where it is clear that such an arrangement will be for a limited period and that the couple will be in a position to maintain themselves shortly after the applicant's arrival in the UK.

The part after that which you have highlighted is very relevant: "Nevertheless, it may be appropriate in certain circumstances to exercise discretion where it is clear that such an arrangement will be for a limited period and that the couple will be in a position to maintain themselves shortly after the applicant's arrival in the UK"

The Supreme Court judgment Sumrit linked to earlier makes it very clear that third party financial support definitely is acceptable for married couples. That judgment basically says that it doesn't matter where the money comes from, as long as the couple are not reliant upon public funds.

[sumrit]

Thanks for the links and information. Lots to read.

We have been living together for over 2 years, almost four. Therefore I think applying for the unmarried settlement visa would be the best option for us (?) and then we can get married in the UK. Is it the same form for unmarried settlement visa as Document VAF4A?

How does this affect the FLR and the process afterwards?

You would be applying for ILE (indefinate leave to enter the UK) not FLR so once there it would be a permanent visa. (I might be wrong but I thought the qualifying period was four years, not two years though. 7by7 will probably be able to tell you for sure.)

Regarding accommodation, I have a letter of invitation from my family member. They do own the property but I don't have any proof of that here, just the letter of invitation.

As well as the letter of invitation they would also have to supply details on the size of the property, the deeds, mortgage details or rental agreement plus a recent utility bill and council tax bill to prove they actually live in the property. They would also have to state (in the invitation) everybody who lives there and show that there is at least one (bed)room for your exclusive use.

Am I correct in thinking that the minimum would be ~£150 per week, based on a couple and one child, which is the same as the support allowance?

See attachment

Income_Support_Rates.pdf

The minimum disposable income (after rent, council tax) for a couple with one child would be £174-36p

[Thongkorn]

Thanks for the links and information. Lots to read.

We have been living together for over 2 years, almost four. Therefore I think applying for the unmarried settlement visa would be the best option for us (?) and then we can get married in the UK. Is it the same form for unmarried settlement visa as Document VAF4A?

How does this affect the FLR and the process afterwards?

You would be applying for ILE (indefinate leave to enter the UK) not FLR so once there it would be a permanent visa. (I might be wrong but I thought the qualifying period was four years, not two years though. 7by7 will probably be able to tell you for sure.)

Regarding accommodation, I have a letter of invitation from my family member. They do own the property but I don't have any proof of that here, just the letter of invitation.

As well as the letter of invitation they would also have to supply details on the size of the property, the deeds, mortgage details or rental agreement plus a recent utility bill and council tax bill to prove they actually live in the property. They would also have to state (in the invitation) everybody who lives there and show that there is at least one (bed)room for your exclusive use.

Am I correct in thinking that the minimum would be ~£150 per week, based on a couple and one child, which is the same as the support allowance?

See attachment

Income_Support_Rates.pdf

The minimum disposable income (after rent, council tax) for a couple with one child would be £174-36p

How do you claim with no recourse to public funds

[7by7]

Thanks for the links and information. Lots to read.

We have been living together for over 2 years, almost four. Therefore I think applying for the unmarried settlement visa would be the best option for us (?) and then we can get married in the UK. Is it the same form for unmarried settlement visa as Document VAF4A?

How does this affect the FLR and the process afterwards?

You would be applying for ILE (indefinate leave to enter the UK) not FLR so once there it would be a permanent visa. (I might be wrong but I thought the qualifying period was four years, not two years though. 7by7 will probably be able to tell you for sure.)

For ILE it would be four years; it is two years for unmarried partners.

Seefah, she applies using form VAF4, ticking the appropriate box in section 8.1. If she satisfies the 4 year requirement for ILE then she will be granted this, if not then she will be granted a 27 months settlement visa. See this topic for more on this and what to do once she is in the UK.

As Sumrit says, whoever is offering you accommodation needs to provide evidence that they can do so; i.e. proof of ownership if they own or a landlords letter if they rent, as explained in my earlier post.

You have to show that there are sufficient funds available to you to live on without recourse to public funds. You do not have to show that the funds for your support over the next 24 months are all available now, just that there will be sufficient weekly/monthly income coming in to support you and your family. You should provide your bank statements to show what funds you have available, and if a third party is offering financial support then they should do the same as well as proof of their income.

Remember that the income support levels are a guide, not a hard and fast rule. If, for example, whoever is providing you with accommodation is also providing you with food, then you will need less income. Also, you will not have utility bills to pay. Just make sure that they stress in their letter that you will be living there rent free and not contributing toward electricity etc. and they detail exactly what other support they are offering you.

[7by7]

How do you claim with no recourse to public funds

You don't, because you can't. As said earlier, these figures are used by ECOs as a guide to the sort of minimum income levels they would expect applicants for settlement to have once in the UK.

[sumrit]

How do you claim with no recourse to public funds

You don't, I was highlighting the minimum amount of income/available funds needed to satisfy the ECO.

[hunglikea]

Maybe it has changed now but my wife received her Indefinite leave to Remain in UK stamp after 2 years living there (rc'd 2004 after 2002 app).

In fact I asked on another thread if my wife is still allowed into UK without a visa as she/we have been in Thailand since 2004 apart from occasional 2/4 month trips to UK?

She wants to go back to UK to her old job for 3/4 months next year. will she be allowed entry without a visa as she still has her ILR stamp?

(please PM as 'enabling email notifications' seems not to work here??)

[7by7]

This question was answered when you asked it last time, but I'll repeat and expand.

If she has spent a continuous period of two years or more out of the UK then her ILR will have lapsed.

You do, however, say "apart from occasional 2/4 month trips." But, if she is actually living in Thailand and these trips to the UK were not to resume residence but for visits then technically her ILR is no longer valid. If an IO at a port of entry were to notice that she was only using it for visits then they could cancel her ILR stamp; although she would be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion. If granted entry as a visitor she could not legally work.

So, she has two choices.

1) Use her ILR to gain entry and hope no one notices that she is no longer a UK resident; she's got away with it before, but may not be so lucky this time.

2) Apply for a new settlement visa and start the whole process all over again. But as you say she only " wants to go back to UK to her old job for 3/4 months" I guess it wouldn't be worth paying the £644 fee!

[crazydrummerpauly]

After reading the UK Border Agency criteria in detail, it seems to me that this thread is missing one important fact -

in principle, there is no disqualification of a Sponsor who is ALREADY entitled to 'public funds' of some kind - the

UK gov's block is on any requirement for EXTRA public assistance due specifically to the Applicant's arrival into the

UK and residence with the Sponsor. This is the LETTER of the regulations - i am absolutely not suggesting that the

Border Agency would smile benignly on applications from Sponsor/Boyfriends already in receipt of state benefits, but

by their own words, they should at least consider such Sponsors on individual merit ( overall satisfaction of Maintenance

& Accommodation criteria.) If anyone doubts this, please read every line of the Border Agency's rule & regs. >>>

MAA2 Public funds

UK Border Agency: Public funds

There is no objection to the British citizen/settled sponsor receiving any public funds to which he/she is entitled in his/her own right.

Details on current benefit and tax rates (means and non-means tested)

The fact that an applicant may not be eligible to claim public funds is not in itself sufficient to satisfy the requirements of the Rules.

If the sponsor is in receipt of public funds, it does not mean that they will be unable to support the applicant, although clearly a person who is heavily dependent on the state because they don't have sufficient means of their own will find it difficult to support another person for any length of time.

The important factor to consider is whether there will be a need for the sponsor to claim additional public funds to support the applicant if leave to enter granted.

Bear in mind that in some exceptional cases an applicant may be able to claim in their own right the public funds listed. This is either as a result of reciprocal arrangements between the UK and their home country, or as a result of the fact that they will be married to / living with a British citizen /EEA national. Where these exceptional circumstances apply, the applicant should not be treated as having recourse to public funds.

[Robert01978]

what would an acceptable amount of money in the bank be? I havn't been back to the UK for 5 years...kinda lost touch...just a rough estimate please

Cheers

[7by7]

There is, currently, no actual figure in the rules..

MAA4 Maintenance: General requirements

There is no explicit minimum figure for what represents sufficient maintenance. If dependants of the main applicant are going to accompany him / her to the United Kingdom, resources must be available for the whole family unit to be maintained.The ECO should bear in mind the position taken by the UK Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (UKAIT):

In 2006, the UKAIT in UKAIT 00065 KA and Others (Pakistan), strongly suggested that it would not be appropriate to have immigrant families existing on resources that were less than the Income Support level for a British family of that size.................

For a couple this is about £115 per week.

However, the government is considering proposals which may introduce a minimum figure; see this topic.