Justice For Sale, Freedom For A Fee

[maxman71]

well - I am not new to Thailand - but I am enraged - for one that sort of news is why many people across the world consider Thailand to be a cesspool of filthy perverted people living here

If the Thais would change that image by prosecuting the people and judges involved - it would be a good start to acceptance

for now - when I say where I live - everyone relates Thailand to sex industry and sex tourists

Stop beating about the bush. Why are YOU here?

This place isn't going to change anytime soon and certainly not because a small group of foreigners are offended that they have taken up residence next to a whorehouse. Maybe some more research would have prevented this assault on their high morals?

Oh, I have been living here for 5+ years and before that Taiwan for nearly 3 years and have travelled/worked all over Asia and points beyond. If you're out looking for tawdry nitelife, it is everywhere; not just Thailand. When I hear this crap from westerners when I go back to visit my home country, and they (mostly women)nag and poke derogatory remarks towards Thailand and me personally, I remind them of the following:

What is available in Thailand is generally available in places like SF, London, NY, LA, Amsterdam, New Orleans, and a host of other western cities. The difference is, Thai women tend to be more upfront about it. And as far as Thailand having more than its' share of "pay for play" females, it's no different with most western women, and again, the difference is Thai women are more upfront about it. I further inform western women who make negative comments about the "flexible morals" of Thai women, that they should book a trip here and take some "Charm School" lesson from their Thai female counterparts. That usually shuts them up.

[PattayaParent]

One of my nephews studying law told me that the student who scores the highest score in the finals remains the senior judge of his year for life.

He will automatically become President of the Court in later years, one reason for this is to prevent jockeying and possible financial incentives for positions.

So who do I pay to ensure I get the highest score in the finals?

[electau]

If anyone here really believes the Thai court system is any more corrupt than the US, Australian, UK, German etc court systems then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of reality in this area.

The court system corruption in Thailand is simply more open and accessible.

With a common law system as in the Uk, Australia, and New Zealand in criminal cases there is a jury, a prosecution and defense, strict laws on a person committing perjury. The judge takes no actual part in the case. Witnesses are cross examined. The media may be restricted in what they can report by the contempt of court laws. The system is adversarial.

This is not so where there is a civil codefied legal system ( no jury system) as in Thailand and eg, in Indonesia where negotiations can be carried out before the case comes to court between the parties involved.

In this case the system is inquisitorial. The judge takes a direct part in the proceedings.

Thus a judge could possibly be influenced.

[Daewoo]

The Australian Police & Judicial System probably only moved away from widespread corruption in the 90s (Wood Royal Commision 1995, Fitzgerald Inquiry 1989).

To think that the Thai system, in an environment with much greater class divide, less oversight, and a weak Fourth Estate (Media), is any less than 20 years behind doesn't pass the sanity test.

That said, gross miscarriages of justice continue today in Australia and US (small case about a black athlete, killing two people, dramatic car chase on live TV, not-guilty verdict).

There are some very well educated and well intentioned people in Thailand, who do love the country, and who work every day for the benefit of the country. I would hope that many of then are in the judiciary. Just a shame that politicians don't have to be smart and work hard to get their jobs (but ain't that the same the world over).

Cheers,

Daewoo

[mstribling]

Exactly. Some people are so naive.

Corruption is in every court and legal system all around the world. What do you think happens to a guy from the streets of harlem with a public defender vs. a white yuppie with a high dollar attorney who lives in uptown Manhattan given the same crime.

[assayer]

I am not a seasoned member here - but if I may - I thought that some civility was here - no hang-em-high - all that - but nothing in this is factual if you have to use alias' - and if this pervert has been indicted before and has a past news piece - then why all the clandestine wording

if there are corrupt judges and this guy has committed a crime and not punished - then the world needs to know the facts and show to the world what the Thai justice system is all about - expose them for what they are

It seems that the police need to start a new investigation of the involved parties here. From the attorneys to the judge.

[electau]

The Australian Police & Judicial System probably only moved away from widespread corruption in the 90s (Wood Royal Commision 1995, Fitzgerald Inquiry 1989).

To think that the Thai system, in an environment with much greater class divide, less oversight, and a weak Fourth Estate (Media), is any less than 20 years behind doesn't pass the sanity test.

That said, gross miscarriages of justice continue today in Australia and US (small case about a black athlete, killing two people, dramatic car chase on live TV, not-guilty verdict).

There are some very well educated and well intentioned people in Thailand, who do love the country, and who work every day for the benefit of the country. I would hope that many of then are in the judiciary. Just a shame that politicians don't have to be smart and work hard to get their jobs (but ain't that the same the world over).

Cheers,

Daewoo

There are always elements of corruption in the police in Australia. They are exagerated by the media. It does not affect the normal man in the street.

But the legal system is not corrupt in Australia. Yes, there has been a few miscarriages of justice but a court (jury) can only make a judgement based on the evidence before it at the time, failure to produce evidence does not indicate corruption. We have an appeals process.juries can be dismissed and a retrial can be instigated in some cases.

We have numerous checks and balances in our system.

　

[Buchholz]

Just a question. Like in the U.S., is there a bar association for lawyers here? Uhh, no, not that type of 'bar'. You know, to be a respectable lawyer (crap, did I just say that?). Really though, is there a regulating board for lawyers?

There is:

Thailand Bar Association

6 Na Hub Puell Road, Bangkok, 10200, Thailand

but apparently it's not so easy for an attorney to be disbarred here. The lawyer responsible for the pastry box bribery in one of the cases involving Thaksin was not disbarred, despite his conviction and prison sentence in that case.

He's still representing Thaksin.

[hjvdhoef]

Of course the chance to have a corrupt judge is possible anywhere. I have seen some strange decisions during my 26 years here, but I have not heard any lawyer ever hint that a judge was for sale. If this is true, it is too sad, as society must have some faith that at least a judge will be impartial and not for sale.

At least anywhere else,you can talk or write about it.

[Deeral]

If anyone here really believes the Thai court system is any more corrupt than the US, Australian, UK, German etc court systems then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of reality in this area.

The court system corruption in Thailand is simply more open and accessible.

I've seen some rubbish posted on this site in my time.............

[Deeral]

I am not a seasoned member here - but if I may - I thought that some civility was here - no hang-em-high - all that - but nothing in this is factual if you have to use alias' - and if this pervert has been indicted before and has a past news piece - then why all the clandestine wording

if there are corrupt judges and this guy has committed a crime and not punished - then the world needs to know the facts and show to the world what the Thai justice system is all about - expose them for what they are

It seems that the police need to start a new investigation of the involved parties here. From the attorneys to the judge.

The police? - ah now there's an institution free of corruption!

[hungryhippo]

Is there a reason for posting people's passport and ID numbers or is Warina doing it in an attempt to ruin these people's lives? How about we find out her ID card number, lots of personal information about her and post it all over the internet? Would she like that?

There's a line and she has definitely crossed it. This isn't news, it's an attempt at lynching, "here's their personal information, go get them". I don't see how it's any different from the high them high posts that are banned on these forums.

Edit: I noticed she also posted people's home addresses, is the point that we're suppose to go there are hurt these people or something? What's the point of posting this information?

Edited September 6, 2010 by hungryhippo

[DerringDo]

I just clicked the link in the OP for the rest of the story and it's not displaying. Is it still there for anyone else?

[Samuian]

Nothing new, it's simply how it is, that's the way it is, it isn't important what one knows, but whom one knows...remember f.E. Duangchalerm and Wanchalerm, anyone?

[Deeral]

It appears that many foreigners seriously underestimate the extent of corruption, graft and nepotism throughout Thai society, especially in political, legal. etc

[M71]

If anyone here really believes the Thai court system is any more corrupt than the US, Australian, UK, German etc court systems then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of reality in this area.

The court system corruption in Thailand is simply more open and accessible.

I've seen some rubbish posted on this site in my time.............

I rest my case.....

[Deeral]

If anyone here really believes the Thai court system is any more corrupt than the US, Australian, UK, German etc court systems then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of reality in this area.

The court system corruption in Thailand is simply more open and accessible.

I've seen some rubbish posted on this site in my time.............

I rest my case.....

Thank heavens for that.

[Chunky1]

Why are the Mods allowing this thread to run? Thailand police and legal system work very hard and love Thai people very much. They are very nice and smart and honest people and help Thailand people and nation.

[HappyBill]

He can run but he can't hide.Presumably if he went back to Sweden,under pedophilia laws,he would be prosecuted.If he stays in Thailand,no doubt,the Thais will find a way to bleed him dry.

[Deeral]

No! - the underlying problem is the corruption in the Thai legal system - for ALL

This coupled with incompetent policing in all areas allows Thailand to be a target for ALL kinds of criminals whether Thai nationals or foreigners.to see this particular case as pertinent is really misleading - it is just a example of the failures that are inherent in all aspects of Thai law.

Edited September 6, 2010 by sbk
deleted quoted post removed

[Samuian]

It appears that many foreigners seriously underestimate the extent of corruption, graft and nepotism throughout Thai society, especially in political, legal. etc

Well, understandable, as things are, who would bite off the hand that feeds?

It's a society of unquestioned obedience to who or what ever is an inch above in the social ranking, often manipulated and then abused dependency, clan affiliation followed by a shoulder-to-shoulder stance; closing of ranks - unfettered by any scruples and widespread incompetence based on the aforementioned facts and very poor education covered by patriotic "we are XXXX people" and the magic formula that is above anything which is: "Sabai Jai" and "Sanook, Sanook" that is the very axis of the xxxx universe!

[Buchholz]

Is there a reason for posting people's passport and ID numbers or is Warina doing it in an attempt to ruin these people's lives? How about we find out her ID card number, lots of personal information about her and post it all over the internet? Would she like that?

There's a line and she has definitely crossed it. This isn't news, it's an attempt at lynching, "here's their personal information, go get them". I don't see how it's any different from the high them high posts that are banned on these forums.

Edit: I noticed she also posted people's home addresses, is the point that we're suppose to go there are hurt these people or something? What's the point of posting this information?

publicly produced information:

Warina Punyawan

Editor-In-Chief, Pattaya Daily News

publicly issued Facebook photo

Verified by publicly produced PDN's own news story:

Birthday Fun at Pattaya’s Front Page Bar

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/05/05/birthday-fun-at-pattayas-front-page-bar/

Edited September 6, 2010 by Buchholz

[Deeral]

It appears that many foreigners seriously underestimate the extent of corruption, graft and nepotism throughout Thai society, especially in political, legal. etc

Well, understandable, as things are, who would bite off the hand that feeds?

It's a society of unquestioned obedience to who or what ever is an inch above in the social ranking, often manipulated and then abused dependency, clan affiliation followed by a shoulder-to-shoulder stance; closing of ranks - unfettered by any scruples and widespread incompetence based on the aforementioned facts and very poor education covered by patriotic "we are XXXX people" and the magic formula that is above anything which is: "Sabai Jai" and "Sanook, Sanook" that is the very axis of the xxxx universe!

I'm not sure I understand your point.Although as a simple generalisation of thai society - you may have some points, i don't see how this relates to the underestimating of corruption by foreigners.

[geriatrickid]

Warina Punyawan, Editor-In-Chief, Pattaya Daily News took considerable personal risk in the decision to go with the story. I commend her courage and strength to raise an issue which too many people prefer not to discuss. I don't care if she operates a sedate restaurant. Considering the state of the media around the world I can understand why she would need additional income. There is no conflict of interest as everything is in the open. Aside from that, she's attractive for an older woman and she's both smart and an entrepreneur. The man that marries her is lucky.

[Canada]

well - I am not new to Thailand - but I am enraged - for one that sort of news is why many people across the world consider Thailand to be a cesspool of filthy perverted people living here

If the Thais would change that image by prosecuting the people and judges involved - it would be a good start to acceptance

for now - when I say where I live - everyone relates Thailand to sex industry and sex tourists

Stop beating about the bush. Why are YOU here?

This place isn't going to change anytime soon and certainly not because a small group of foreigners are offended that they have taken up residence next to a whorehouse. Maybe some more research would have prevented this assault on their high morals?

Corruption, lies, sex, ladyboys, comical politics, street vendors, the lazy police, two tier pricing, just to name a few........... this is what makes this place different from home. If you want it the same as home; go home. This is what makes it interesting.

[earthpig]

No! - the underlying problem is the corruption in the Thai legal system - for ALL

This coupled with incompetent policing in all areas allows Thailand to be a target for ALL kinds of criminals whether Thai nationals or foreigners.to see this particular case as pertinent is really misleading - it is just a example of the failures that are inherent in all aspects of Thai law.

your mistaken conclusion is proven by your own words.

yes, incompetent policing would, logically, encourage targeting by criminals. but there can be no targeting without the prior existance of the criminal. THAT is the "underlying" problem.

moreover, as a separate matter, it is appropriate for the farang to consider the farang's contribution to this problem before he obsseses with an alleged Thai angle to it. and that would seem particulary true when it is a thai journalist who has called attention to the alleged issue with bent judges. no point for the farang to pile on when a bent farang was not only the original source of the criminal act in this case, but in so many other similar ones.

or so methinks.

[BarryM]

Looks like he will be bled dry in Thailand. If he's got any sense he will sell up and move out.

[earthpig]

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Please keep this topic civil without insults etc. It is illegal in Thailand to talk bad about judges and courts.

Breach of this rule will result in post deletion and immediate suspension/ban.

Thanks for your cooperation!

/Admin team

just curious george, but would you kindly share with us why if talking "bad" about judges is illegal then why did the Pattaya Daily News run, and Thai Visa rerun, an article that talks bad about judges?

a bit odd, no?

[Buchholz]

Warina Punyawan, Editor-In-Chief, Pattaya Daily News took considerable personal risk in the decision to go with the story. I commend her courage and strength to raise an issue which too many people prefer not to discuss. I don't care if she operates a sedate restaurant. Considering the state of the media around the world I can understand why she would need additional income. There is no conflict of interest as everything is in the open. Aside from that, she's attractive for an older woman and she's both smart and an entrepreneur. The man that marries her is lucky.

Too bad she doesn't show the same courage in questioning Pattaya City Mayor Ittiphol Khunpluem on the whereabouts of his "Mafia Don" father, convicted murderer on the run, Somchai Khunpluem.

Realizing that an expose' on their contacts with one another would probably be too ambitious, but perhaps even if she were to just tone down a smidgen on her paper's flowery, praising articles of him, it might be productive.

p.s. As far as grandmothers go, I'd concur that Warina is an attractive grandmother.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Buchholz

[Willeyeam]

This is nothing more than slander, we all know that Thailand's legal system is the greatest in the world, how dare people publish such rubbish to try and drag down the honour and impartiality of a great Thai institution, shame on you all! The judge was probably just trying to make ends meet! Bloody foreigners coming over here and digging dirt on a well established business, how dare they! Get back to where you came from, subversive scum!

dam_n Farang always expect the world to be like it is for them! Can't you see, this is OUR Banana Republic, If you don't like it LEAVE!

This is our version of democracy by proxy....

If you don't like it...this is where you will end up!

Edited September 6, 2010 by sbk
youtube video link removed