Cracking Thai Fundamentals

[desi]

A heads up. Stu Jay Raj (polyglot) is back in Bangkok for short bit.

He helps out in this forum, so most of you know him already.

While in BKK, Stu is giving his workshop: Cracking Thai Fundamentals

I attended when he was living in Thailand. During that time, he took away the fear of tones and gave needed insight into Thai culture as well. At the workshop he has everyone off their seats, getting into the fun of it all. So if you do go, be prepared to be entertained.

I don't know how often he'll be back in Thailand, so if you are wavering...

Here's an overview:

• Memory Building Techniques
• Building cognitive fluency when speaking Thai – training ourselves to react in Thai without thinking
• How to motivate people in the Thai workplace and how to elicit the information we really need
• Using language to build a cross cultural rapport in the workplace
• Street Thai vs. Formal Thai / what to say, when to say it and who to say it with
• Expressing yourself in Thai to get the right reaction
• Understanding Thai Humour and using it to reach into the Thai heart.

Edited September 6, 2010 by desi

[Tod Daniels]

Wavering wouldn't be quite the correct term I'd use .

"Mind wobbling' might fit, dunno. ..

I know this guy is way up there in terms of languages, but at frickin' $349US (10,470BAHT at the 30/1 rate) for the 'early bird rate' he'd better "walk on goddamned water"!!

That's almost SIX months tuition at ANY private thai language school in Bangkok (throw a dart at the list of 'em, they're all about the same price).

I certainly hope for that much money that he provides a good 'bang-4-the-baht'. For 16 hours (not counting time off for lunch) that's 650baht PER HOUR!!

<deleted>? I know the guy is a polyglot, he can speak a million and one languages, and has contracts with HUGE international firms around the world, but come on now; how much value can a person get outta 16 frickin' hours of studying thai? Especially in room filled with people who have varying levels of thai, coming from various countries, with various accents? I am just sincerely questioning the value in something like this, not downin' either the guys ability or him personally.

My hat is off to the guy, and he certainly is cashing in on his language ability in a big way. I've watched about everything about him on You Tube, read his website but still. .. ...

That's just a little too rich for my tastes.

[SoftWater]

I recently went to a PTA at our kid's school where they wanted to tell us about how they educate our kids. As part of the 'meeting' they had two of the teachers come in with a guitar and teach the parents how to sing the songs just like they do with the kids. This required all the parents standing up, clapping, turning around and singing something along the lines of 'hello, today I am happy'. After the song went on for about five minutes, they did another one.

Personally, I found it excruciatingly embarrassing, and sat stoically in my chair ('ahh, you killjoy', i hear?).

About a month later I was (un)lucky enough to be at a business conference with about 300 delegates inside. At one point they had a 'motivational speaker' who also got people of their chairs, singing the corporate logo complete with silly YMCA type arm waving to make letters. Unsurprisingly, I sat stoically in my chair.

All of which brings me round to the OP - I'm sorry, but even if the price wasn't as high as it is (going by Tod's info), I wouldn't go to a class like this; the words "at the workshop, he has everyone off their seats" say 'total physical response and strike a chill right down the centre of my (adult) language learning backbone.

Still, that's just me. I know there are those that love it.

Edited September 6, 2010 by SoftWater

[desi]

Before I placed this post, I offered to make a bet with another member of this forum on who would have something negative to say. He wouldn't take that bet...

Stu has amazing language skills and he's sharing how he learns. I applaud him for that. And that's why I've posted Stu's workshop here. I know language learners around the world who are drooling because Bankgok gets the pleasure of Stu and they don't. Funny how that is.

When I attended Stu's class there were several people on their second go round - yes, at 10,000 baht a session. It was not because they didn't learn anything the first session, it was because they had such a great time.

If you can't get your head around the price, or if you are an introvert, then maybe it's not for you.

But if you've already slogged through Thai lessons and still cannot read Thai, then perhaps think about attending Stu's workshop.

He does a lot more than teach you how to read Thai. Just check out his site if you want to know more.

[Rumblecat]

The videos I've seen have switched me from being skeptical to actively interested, but I was wondering if you could remember how much of the sessions were weighed towards the Thai workplace stuff, as that's of less interest.

[desi]

I don't have a percentage in my head on how much discussion there was about the Thai workplace. Most of the class/workshop teaches you methods to learn Thai, or any language actually. But information on the Thai culture is woven all through his conversations.

Btw - I'm an introvert and even I signed up for a second round. Fueled by Stu's energetic nature, a camaraderie developed between students in the class both times. It made a difference. So even though I was a reluctant participant (I prefer being invisible), I had a great time. If I had known about the activities beforehand I might not have signed up - obviously I'm glad I didn't know.

[Tod Daniels]

Hey, I didn't mean to piss on anyone's parade .

I was just pointing out a few things (cost included) about how events like this can and often do pan out. In my former life, I was compelled to attend far more workshops, seminars, and team building events by well known international speakers than I even care to contemplate. Had I not be forced to go, had the cost picked up by my company, and getting paid to attend too, I probably wouldn't have gone to a single one.

That Stu is sharing how he learns a language is good in an anecdotal way, and given his personality, he certainly can speak to a crowd in an engaging manner.

Last time I saw him was at an FCCT event where he was the translator for Veera Musikapong one of the red shirt leaders. I spoke to him briefly after the event, mostly to talk more to Veera. (However I did want to ask Stu; what’s up with that 70’s ‘vest’ thing you got goin’ on there man? Stuck in a time warp, like me with my KISS shirts? )

Sadly, we all can't have a grandfather who tapped out Morse code on the dinner table as we were growing up. (do you think I don't research stuff before I post?) Nor does knowing how he (a person who obviously has some innate grasp of languages) learns help someone else learn too, unless he gives tools which can be used by everyone in their daily language learning process.

I'm far from an introvert, but man, that price is a buzz-kill . He's been marketing himself way too much to the corporate world. His price point would lead me to believe he’s totally outta touch with what it costs to learn thai in thailand or any country for that matter, even if you studied at a 'real uni'.

There is no doubt he's a very savvy, money making, marketing machine.

I'd really like to hear the opinions of other people who've attended Stu's 'workshop' and see what they thought of it. Not that I’m discounting yours Kat, only I’d like to hear a few more ‘un-paid testimonials’ before I make up my own mind.

Not to be overly critical; Did they come out with any tools to improve their spoken thai, or their reading? Or did they just kill a coupla days in a conference room with a bunch of other wanna-b-thai speakers, standing around singing Kumbayah and patting each other on the back because after 16 hours they can finally differentiate the 5 tones in the 'mai' words?.

As I said before, my hats off to Stu Jay Raj; I won't dispute the fact that he is most definitely an exceedingly "cunning-linguist' .

FWIW: his free pod casts about cracking the thai fundamentals are pretty good as is most of the stuff on You Tube about him.

BTW: did you think it'd be me to post a negative response?

(come on, you can tell )

[bhoydy]

Having never paid for a lesson in my life, that price is too high for me. I prefer the long slog myself. It has taken me a long time to get to the stage where i am and i am still a long way from where i want to me, but i don't worry about that because i'm in no rush to go anywhere. It seems like a good crash beginners course but like Todd says for the amount of time involved learning it's pretty pricy. That's just my opinion though.

I looked at one of his videos and he certainly knows what he's talking about but where do you go after that weekend? Is there any post course work to continue with what you've learned? At that price you'd hope so. Also how many people are likely to be in the class? The more people in the class i'd imagine the more questions would get asked, running that clock down again.

Anyway good luck to him, he certainly seems to be cashing in on his excellent language skills.

[SoftWater]

Before I placed this post, I offered to make a bet with another member of this forum on who would have something negative to say. He wouldn't take that bet...

S/he was wise not to take that bet...forums live and die through diversity of opinion.

[desi]

BTW: did you think it'd be me to post a negative response?

(come on, you can tell )

Hehh hehh... Todd, you were first in line

You know, I can understand getting ruffled at a polyglot for NOT sharing how he/she learns languages, but the other way around mystifies me.

And hate to disappoint, but no one in my class mentioned their company paying. From the conversations I remember, we paid out of our own pockets. There were owners of companies there but I don't know if they charged it to their expenses or not. It was not a concern of mine.

As to the price, I'll have to leave you with that one because I didn't feel that I overpaid.

Dunno if the others in the class will step up. But yes, it'd be great to hear from them as well.

(but all your waggling around might have scared them off

[Rikker]

I've never been in the market for courses like Stu's, though I have generally thought they seemed overpriced.

Funnily enough, though, it was Todd's mention of the fact that it breaks down to 650 baht an hour that made me think "Hey, that's not a bad deal."

It's quite common to pay 500+ baht for an hour with a terrible Thai teacher whose only qualification is that he/she is a native speaker. And as someone who has played the role of "terrible English teacher whose only qualification is that he is a native speaker" I know how useless an hour with a bad teacher can be. Granted the price of Stu's course is still prohibitive for many, but from all I've seen he is a gifted teacher and not to mention an ace at Thai.

So yes, you could spend 6 months at an average Thai school (which produce average results -- and average for foreigners speaking Thai usually means 'crap'), or if you can stomach the price I think Stu has a genuinely unique offering for the serious student of Thai.

[Gaccha]

I will throw my little stick of dynamite into this.

Stuart does rate Japanese as one of those languages he has command of. Somewhere he lists in order his level of proficiency in each languages and his japanese ability is lower than Thai but still within the the 'fluent command of' level.

Problem is, his Japanese sucks. Perhaps I am being hard. What I mean is, he is like somebody who made not too much effort for a couple of years and then shunted it out the way.

But his status as a polyglot (and this is his selling point) depends on his ability with the languages below the ones like Thai that he, like anyone else learning the language, has had plenty of time to master, i.e. those mid-ranked languages.

Now I would love someone to refute me. They need to find that ordering list of his command of languages, tell me he is not claiming to be as good as I say, and come back and tell us all.

In the meantime, Stu simply adds to a long and not very distinguished list of people I meet who claim to be fluent and are anything but.

:jap:

[SoftWater]

^^Well, since we're just chewing the cud here...can I add that 16 hours over say 6 to 8 weeks is a different prospect from studying with (or being in the presence of) a guru for 16 hours in two days. It ain't like learning to drive a car, there is value in the pauses.

Edited September 6, 2010 by SoftWater

[Genericnic]

Just my $.02 worth.

I've looked at the website and other information about the seminar and it looks pretty impressive. My problem is two fold:

First, I find seminars like this tend to over promise what you will get out of them. That is just part of the marketing/monitization process that happens in most seminar sales. Not a negative comment, just a reflection on reality. Even discounting the claims for this seminar by half, it looks like it has potential.

Second, he is charging what could best be called the upper end of U.S. prices for corporate seminars. I've taken photo seminars with world class photographers for less than half what the hourly charge is for this seminar.

In short, would I go to the seminar? For half the price, yes. For the current price, no.

Best to all.

David

[kriswillems]

Rikker, 650B/h for classroom courses is very expensive! I don't know any other place where they charge that much.

For best classroom courses I've ever followed I paid about 90B/hour.

The best Thai language teacher I ever had asked 400B/hour for private courses.

From what I've seen on Stuarts website, I think he's an excellent teacher and his Thai is very good.

It's a free market. Everyone can choose wether or not he or she wants to follow the course. The fact that people apply for these courses and that students return to his courses proves that he's worth the money (for a certain group of people).

Farang that live on an average Thai budget, such as myself, can only envy those people that can pay for this.

Thanks for the info, Catherine.

Edited September 6, 2010 by kriswillems

[Tod Daniels]

Maybe the O/P of this post (who has far more 'street-cred' than I ever will ) would drop Stuart Jay Raj an email and let him know about the 'lively' discussion about his upcoming event here.

Let's see if he'll weigh in on this post.

FWIW: he used to post quite a bit, but I haven't seen him around in a while. Plus due to a spotty internet connection today I can't find his user name using the search function either .

Actually I amazed I even got this to post!!

[Rikker]

Rikker, 650B/h for classroom courses is very expensive! I don't know any other place where they charge that much.

I was thinking of hourly tutoring sessions, not classroom time. Of course Stu's seminar isn't one-on-one but it's nothing like anything offered at the schools. Like I said -- the price remains prohibitive for many, but for those who have the means I don't see a reason to poo-poo his offering. Also, I think Stu's Japanese skills are beside the point -- his Thai is excellent, and that's what he's purporting to teach.

Alas, I have no real reason to go to bat for Stu, other than that he seems to have been caught up unfairly in one of ThaiVisa's notorious (if utterly common) circle-jerks of pointless negativity. Usually these don't occur in the language forum, but for some reason the topic of language study always brings this out.

If anyone who has actually taken Stu's course feels like they didn't get their money's worth I'll be interested to hear that opinion. Until then..

[Parvis]

Rikker, 650B/h for classroom courses is very expensive! I don't know any other place where they charge that much.

For best classroom courses I've ever followed I paid about 90B/hour.

The best Thai language teacher I ever had asked 400B/hour for private courses.

From what I've seen on Stuarts website, I think he's an excellent teacher and his Thai is very good.

It's a free market. Everyone can choose wether or not he or she wants to follow the course. The fact that people apply for these courses and that students return to his courses proves that he's worth the money (for a certain group of people).

Farang that live on an average Thai budget, such as myself, can only envy those people that can pay for this.

Thanks for the info, Catherine.

I paid 750 baht/hour for classroom - one on one lessons (Thai teacher total 30 hrs - but farang owned School) - and 9 month after the fact I still feel I was robbed.

Therefore - for a farang to teach Thai - he obviously must have gone through the same struggles most of us have. Perhaps - he has some insight - which escaped us - and IF this is true - Stuarts charge just MAY be resonable.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Parvis

[SoftWater]

Alas, I have no real reason to go to bat for Stu, other than that he seems to have been caught up unfairly in one of ThaiVisa's notorious (if utterly common) circle-jerks of pointless negativity. Usually these don't occur in the language forum, but for some reason the topic of language study always brings this out.

If anyone who has actually taken Stu's course feels like they didn't get their money's worth I'll be interested to hear that opinion. Until then..

I don't get this. Where's the "pointless negativity"? Nobody's slating the guy, nobody's saying he's a rip off, nobody's saying 'DON"T GO THIS IS CRAP'....apart from Desi and what you can read on SJRs own publicity material, none of us have the faintest idea what he does. I don't see anyone pretending otherwise.

What I do see is people exchanging opinions on their own perception of value for money in language teaching and why/why not this course would appeal to them. If that wasn't the purpose of the OP, what was it?

Or is TV now just a free advertising board for certain people's favourite teachers, and the rest of us have to remain mute?

Edited September 7, 2010 by SoftWater

[klons]

"Or is TV now just a free advertising board for certain people's favourite teachers, and the rest of us have to remain mute?"

That is sort of what I've been thinking, though it doesn't bother me personally. What if the original post had been a heads up for a speedythaivinnie

16 hr. seminar that he does in only 3 1/2 hours. The message board police would of been here already warning about trying to scam the TV people

out of advertising revenue. JMHO

[Tod Daniels]

I too have to agree that I dont know how my posts or any posts on this thread can be perceived as having ANY pointless negativity in them.

I was just mentioning facts, both that Ive witnessed, and that Ive watched, read, etc, as far as bang-4-the-baht in terms of learning the thai language. Opinions which I freely admit are totally my own take on things. That those opinions run counter to anyone elses neither negates mine nor theirs. Overall, I've found opinions are like bowel movements, almost every one has one once a day or so (if youre semi-regular ).

Maybe I need to start every post I make with Warning!! Pointless negativity may follow! T/V users are advised to use extreme caution when reading the following post…

Im certainly NOT bashing the guy, his workshop or his competence in languages by any stretch of the imagination.

And Rikker, FWIW: at least where I came from, the term "circle jerks" is a euphemism for a game young(ish) boys play while standing in a circle with their flys open 'jerking' the person next to them . I think you meant "knee jerk"; as in a knee jerk reaction, or a reaction without proper thought usually with a negative connotation . Now I could have my euphemisms mixed up . Then again, re-reading your post, maybe not and you really did mean circle jerks..

BTW: I sent an email to Stuarts email provided on the link 'desi' gave in her opening post, and let him know about lively, but 'pointlessly negative' discussion going on, lol…

Now whether he has the time or the inclination to answer, well, thats for him to decide.

Edited September 7, 2010 by tod-daniels

[rakloke]

I followed Desi's introduction of SJR as a polyglot and watched him in Youtube today. I agree that his competence in (spoken) Thai is almost like that of the native, as high as 95 %of the Thai's accent, IMO. But after I learned that he has a Thai wife and 2 kids. Perhaps because he has been living here for at least 5 years, speaking 80% of Thai daily, that's why.

[Parvis]

I followed Desi's introduction of SJR as a polyglot and watched him in Youtube today. I agree that his competence in (spoken) Thai is almost like that of the native, as high as 95 %of the Thai's accent, IMO. But after I learned that he has a Thai wife and 2 kids. Perhaps because he has been living here for at least 5 years, speaking 80% of Thai daily, that's why.

I am not really surprised to hear that SJR's "magic" of learning Thai most certainly much faster and better than I (in 1+ year and still struggling) - and probably many of us - has a logical explanation.

I am now very interested to hear what course participants will have to report on the value of his presentation/teaching.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Parvis

[Scottish Thailander]

Careful how you define that "magic'! I, and possibly you, know many 5+ year-married-to-a-Thai expats who's limit of Thai would be stretched if they tried to order a coffee and doughnut. The only possible "magic" here might be the "speaking 80% of Thai daily" bit. How many of us can honestly claim to do the same and put in that much effort?

ST.

[Hardie]

Bottom line- there is no magic, and just because some people will pay any amount to learn Thai doesn't mean the course is worth the $. I'm reminded of dieters who try all the latest fads- including jumping around and clapping- rather than just discipline themselves to watch what they eat and exercise regularly. IMHO language is the same way- CRACK THE BOOK- every day!

[bifftastic]

I think he's a person who's totally dedicated to language s and the learning of them. So, along with the aptitude and methods he has used to learn other languages it would be very possible to learn Thai to the level he has in a comparatively short space of time.

How useful that is to those of us who don't have the opportunity, aptitude or willingness to immerse in a new language in that way, is the debatable aspect to all this.

I feel I should add that using his short youtube vids have helped me. His way of explaining the way to change my vocal 'habit' if you like, has been useful.

I also find his enthusiasm infectious.

He seems to have found himself a nice little niche on Thai tv too, good luck to him.

[Parvis]

Careful how you define that "magic'! I, and possibly you, know many 5+ year-married-to-a-Thai expats who's limit of Thai would be stretched if they tried to order a coffee and doughnut. The only possible "magic" here might be the "speaking 80% of Thai daily" bit. How many of us can honestly claim to do the same and put in that much effort?

ST.

Yes "magic" has a "magic quality" to it. To learn Thai is still mostly a question of attitude and perseverance. We - at least I - always assume/hope that "experience" can be learned effectively - and therefore SJR (an expert?) - MAY have the experience necessary to help us in our quest more efficiently.

Unfortunately this Course may turn out to be just effective adverstising rather than effective teaching of fundamentals.

[Rumblecat]

Well, I've read through the articles on his website and sat and watched a bunch of Youtube videos, and have to say that's made me decide to sign up for this. I've been impressed by the enthusiasm he has for language and culture. And it all seems pretty entertaining as well.

I would love to hear though from anyone else who's signed up before and how much they feel- after time has passed- the experience helped them in terms of being more confident with the language.