Fortuna-Harrier

[Topcroc]

Is the Fortuna suspension mounted on the same platform as the Harrier/Lexus and if so are bits interchangeable. Particularly springs-shockies and brakes.

[katabeachbum]

Nothing in common

Fortuner is build on frame. Harrier/Lexus is not.

[Deeral]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

[Deeral]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

I thought the MU7 was basically a pickup truck, not any other. If your talking about it has a chassis well some cars do too but the Fortuner has coil spring suspension all round, like most cars.

No the Fortuner is by any other name a Vigo - it is essentially the same vehicle. toyota developed the Fortuner/Vigo/Innova range as a vehicle particularly suited to the developing Asian market.

THe Everest, Pajero, Isuzu are just an SUV variant on the respective companies' pickups.

ThaiRung do a version on the Isuzu.

Most saloons or sedans in europe and Japan are monocoque construction as are the higher priced SUVs - consequently, due to the nature of their construction that pickups are cheaper to make and are intrinsically less safe that sedans etc.

[Deeral]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

I thought the MU7 was basically a pickup truck, not any other. If your talking about it has a chassis well some cars do too but the Fortuner has coil spring suspension all round, like most cars.

No the Fortuner is by any other name a Vigo - it is essentially the same vehicle. toyota developed the Fortuner/Vigo/Innova range as a vehicle particularly suited to the developing Asian market.

THe Everest, Pajero, Isuzu are just an SUV variant on the respective companies' pickups.

ThaiRung do a version on the Isuzu.

Most saloons or sedans in europe and Japan are monocoque construction as are the higher priced SUVs - consequently, due to the nature of their construction that pickups are cheaper to make and are intrinsically less safe that sedans etc.

I understand what you say but not that long ago cars had chassis. Doesn't mean to say these cars were unsafe as you imply. Myself l would have a chassis motor any day of the week.

I guess you might be from the Staes.

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

THat's not to say that the Japanese haven't refined the pickup immensely over the years - but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow' ear.

[MoonRiverOasis]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Curious assertion. I'll give you the opportunity to explain with supporting facts before I say anything.

[Deeral]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Curious assertion. I'll give you the opportunity to explain with supporting facts before I say anything.

MR - i'm rather tired of explaining the "bleedin' obvious' to you.

now I'm getting the feeling here that you are pretty uniformed on these matters.so might I suggest that rather relying on me you go and do your homework first?

You implied I might be uneducated in another post - I would suggest that is the kind of comment that would only come form an uneducated mind.

PS - I certainly don't require permission or "opportunity" from you

[katabeachbum]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

Not correct

Fortuners frame is 25 cm shorter between the axles, thus 25 cm shorter wheelbase. In addition the frame is shorter behind the rear axle.

Rear suspension is totally different with coilsprings

Front suspension is same design, but springs and other parts are different to focus less on payload and more on comfort

[katabeachbum]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Totally disagree

there are only 2 reasons for skipping the old frame design, saving weight and saving money

are there any cars/trucks at +3 ton around at all build as moncoque?

[katabeachbum]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Totally disagree

there are only 2 reasons for skipping the old frame design, saving weight and saving money

Refresh my memory, didn't my old Volvo 760 Estate have a chassis?, sure it did. One of the most stable work horse motors l ever owned, and reputed to be high on the safety list for it's time.

Nope, neither did the 240/260 nor the 140/160

monocoques can be safe, as can vehicles build on frame

[Deeral]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Totally disagree

there are only 2 reasons for skipping the old frame design, saving weight and saving money

Refresh my memory, didn't my old Volvo 760 Estate have a chassis?, sure it did. One of the most stable work horse motors l ever owned, and reputed to be high on the safety list for it's time.

Absolutely NOT!!! it was one of the pioneer "cage" construction cars started with the 100 series

[Deeral]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

Not correct

Fortuners frame is 25 cm shorter between the axles, thus 25 cm shorter wheelbase. In addition the frame is shorter behind the rear axle.

Rear suspension is totally different with coilsprings

Front suspension is same design, but springs and other parts are different to focus less on payload and more on comfort

Probably the most facile post on this thread.

Of COURSE it is modified - it is a modified PICKUP TRUCK!!!!!

[Deeral]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Totally disagree

there are only 2 reasons for skipping the old frame design, saving weight and saving money

are there any cars/trucks at +3 ton around at all build as moncoque?

OK - wrong in every respect.and I was wondering when weight was going to be mentioned.

you really need to check up on how vehicles behave in a collision.

I think Transam posted a basic summary above?U

[katabeachbum]

The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base.

Not correct

Fortuners frame is 25 cm shorter between the axles, thus 25 cm shorter wheelbase. In addition the frame is shorter behind the rear axle.

Rear suspension is totally different with coilsprings

Front suspension is same design, but springs and other parts are different to focus less on payload and more on comfort

Probably the most facile post on this thread.

Of COURSE it is modified - it is a modified PICKUP TRUCK!!!!!

facile or not

facts remains

they do NOT have the same frame/chassie or suspension.

[katabeachbum]

however if you just think for a bit about the construction and design you'll see how this old engineering is inherently unsafe - especially in collisions a chassis-based vehicle is at a huge disadvantage. both to the occupants and others.

Totally disagree

there are only 2 reasons for skipping the old frame design, saving weight and saving money

are there any cars/trucks at +3 ton around at all build as moncoque?

OK - wrong in every respect.and I was wondering when weight was going to be mentioned.

you really need to check up on how vehicles behave in a collision.

I think Transam posted a basic summary above?U

I have worked with crash tests, so I guess i know how vehicles behave when crashed:rolleyes:

Unfortunately there arent many large monocoques around to compare with. VW T4/T5 as van is monocoque, but as pickup its on frame, and none of them reach 3 ton as I recall

[Deeral]

The chassis motor in a collision sends the passenger forward at an alarming rate cos the chassis car will not crumple and absorb energy like a monocoque design, that is the downside of a chassis but in race conditions your monocoque has to be stiffened up via an integrated roll bar to stiffen things up. Look at a heavy goods vehicle, has a chassis from one end to the other, are they unsafe ? Any chassis or non chassis vehicle is dependant on it's suspension design for the safety of that vehicle.

It doesn't "send" the passengers in a collision want to continue in the direction they were heading at the speed they were heading! the object is to bring them to a halt with minimum injuries.

The interiors of cars are designed to do this.

The essence of monocoque is that it is a cage surrounded by shock absorbing zones - re-inforcing the cage for racing doesn't alter thew concept - apart from the fact that racing collisions are intrinsically different from normal road use.

large commercial vehicles are EXTREMELY dangerous - I've driven many thousands of miles in them and they are potentially lethal - the best thing you can do is protect yourself from them with a well-designed modern car.

As for "suspension" I assume you mean everything from steering to shockers etc etc?

Just take a look at the handling of your average pickup - QED.

it's virtually impossible to roll a moddern sedan - a pick up is not so blessed.

They ae now fitting anti-serve etc on some of the high-end models - I haven't read how ell it works. But it was only recently that a Vigo failed the "moose test" in Sweden and all models had to be modifed.

The key in any collision is how the vehicle protects its passengers

and those outside their own vehicle.

In essence the passengers are protected in a cage which is surrounded by shock absorbing zones.

this often leads people to think their car was "weaker" in an accident as it received a lot more damage than a non-shock-absorbing pickup. in fact the vehicle did exactly what it was meant to do.

Building a passenger cage round a chassis is much more difficult as the chassis tends to make the vehicle very rigid and a times the body can even part from the chassis - disaster!

In US the answer was to build enormous shock absorbing front and rear ends onto existing chassis vehicles....this was later of course improved.

Looking at extremes of weight doesn't help.

If a vehicle stops suddenly the passengers - who are also traveling at the same speed as the vehicle - need to have shock absorption or they will receive horrendous injuries if they stop as quickly as the vehicle.

many truck drivers are killed in their vehicles because they don't wear seat belts and trucks are renowned for taking out hundreds of other road users - this is conveniently ignored in the interests of the economy.

there are two aspects to a vehicles safety

passive and active

the pickup is often lacking in both.

active is your ability to avoid accidents and passive is your ability to survive them

pickups have poor handling characteristics, weight distribution and a high centre of gravity - which makes them much less maneuverable than the average family sedan.

Passively they perform worse than most (not all) sedans in collisions - the occupants are subject to much greater stopping forces as the shock absorbing properties are not as good as a sedans, they also can disintegrate in a dangerous way.

If you have a problem with weight - look at it this way - a standard pick up is about the same weight as a Camry - there really isn't a huge difference.

So imagine a Honda Civic with 4 fat people in it and a Vigo 4x4 driven by a little Thai wife - the civic wil actually be heavier!

[Deeral]

"One swallow does not a summer make"

You are being very obtuse

the Fortuner has a VIGO chassis that has been modified to allow a shorter wheelbase and a different rear suspension - this was allowed by the Thai govt.

If I change the wheels on my Honda Accord, or modify the suspension it is STILL a Honda Accord!...and if you look at how it is built, you'll see why I can't make it into a pick up truck without it falling in half.

I mentioned this in my initial post.It is one of three vehicles that share the same mechanicals and are designed by Toyota especially for the Asian market.

Being pickup based they can be manufactured with minimum automation allowing Toyota to make use of the cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

[Spoonman]

cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

So how do they build the sedans out here, do they have thousands of little somchais running around with a panel beating hammer and a stick welder ??

For what its worth Honda has to-date invested over Bht. 21,200 million in its world-class manufacturing facility in Thailand.....

[katabeachbum]

The chassis motor in a collision sends the passenger forward at an alarming rate cos the chassis car will not crumple and absorb energy like a monocoque design, that is the downside of a chassis but in race conditions your monocoque has to be stiffened up via an integrated roll bar to stiffen things up. Look at a heavy goods vehicle, has a chassis from one end to the other, are they unsafe ? Any chassis or non chassis vehicle is dependant on it's suspension design for the safety of that vehicle.

It doesn't "send" the passengers in a collision want to continue in the direction they were heading at the speed they were heading! the object is to bring them to a halt with minimum injuries.

The interiors of cars are designed to do this.

The essence of monocoque is that it is a cage surrounded by shock absorbing zones - re-inforcing the cage for racing doesn't alter thew concept - apart from the fact that racing collisions are intrinsically different from normal road use.

large commercial vehicles are EXTREMELY dangerous - I've driven many thousands of miles in them and they are potentially lethal - the best thing you can do is protect yourself from them with a well-designed modern car.

As for "suspension" I assume you mean everything from steering to shockers etc etc?

Just take a look at the handling of your average pickup - QED.

it's virtually impossible to roll a moddern sedan - a pick up is not so blessed.

They ae now fitting anti-serve etc on some of the high-end models - I haven't read how ell it works. But it was only recently that a Vigo failed the "moose test" in Sweden and all models had to be modifed.

The key in any collision is how the vehicle protects its passengers

and those outside their own vehicle.

In essence the passengers are protected in a cage which is surrounded by shock absorbing zones.

this often leads people to think their car was "weaker" in an accident as it received a lot more damage than a non-shock-absorbing pickup. in fact the vehicle did exactly what it was meant to do.

Building a passenger cage round a chassis is much more difficult as the chassis tends to make the vehicle very rigid and a times the body can even part from the chassis - disaster!

In US the answer was to build enormous shock absorbing front and rear ends onto existing chassis vehicles....this was later of course improved.

Looking at extremes of weight doesn't help.

If a vehicle stops suddenly the passengers - who are also traveling at the same speed as the vehicle - need to have shock absorption or they will receive horrendous injuries if they stop as quickly as the vehicle.

many truck drivers are killed in their vehicles because they don't wear seat belts and trucks are renowned for taking out hundreds of other road users - this is conveniently ignored in the interests of the economy.

there are two aspects to a vehicles safety

passive and active

the pickup is often lacking in both.

active is your ability to avoid accidents and passive is your ability to survive them

pickups have poor handling characteristics, weight distribution and a high centre of gravity - which makes them much less maneuverable than the average family sedan.

Passively they perform worse than most (not all) sedans in collisions - the occupants are subject to much greater stopping forces as the shock absorbing properties are not as good as a sedans, they also can disintegrate in a dangerous way.

If you have a problem with weight - look at it this way - a standard pick up is about the same weight as a Camry - there really isn't a huge difference.

So imagine a Honda Civic with 4 fat people in it and a Vigo 4x4 driven by a little Thai wife - the civic wil actually be heavier!

I enjoy facts

Your posts in this thread have not contained much facts

a 1200kg Civic with 4 fat 100kg persons is 1600 kg. Max loaded weight for a top spec Civic is approx 1800kg. My Vigo 4x4 is more than 2.000 kg, ad driver and I have problem seeing the Civic more heavy. Ad 1000-1500 kg load on the Vigo, and you might see the need for the frame/chassie

[katabeachbum]

"One swallow does not a summer make"

You are being very obtuse

the Fortuner has a VIGO chassis that has been modified to allow a shorter wheelbase and a different rear suspension - this was allowed by the Thai govt.

If I change the wheels on my Honda Accord, or modify the suspension it is STILL a Honda Accord!...and if you look at how it is built, you'll see why I can't make it into a pick up truck without it falling in half.

I mentioned this in my initial post.It is one of three vehicles that share the same mechanicals and are designed by Toyota especially for the Asian market.

Being pickup based they can be manufactured with minimum automation allowing Toyota to make use of the cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

been to any car factories in Japan, EU,US, Canada or LOS? Didnt think so. I have worked in some and with some. Welcome to the real world

[Deeral]

The chassis motor in a collision sends the passenger forward at an alarming rate cos the chassis car will not crumple and absorb energy like a monocoque design, that is the downside of a chassis but in race conditions your monocoque has to be stiffened up via an integrated roll bar to stiffen things up. Look at a heavy goods vehicle, has a chassis from one end to the other, are they unsafe ? Any chassis or non chassis vehicle is dependant on it's suspension design for the safety of that vehicle.

It doesn't "send" the passengers in a collision want to continue in the direction they were heading at the speed they were heading! the object is to bring them to a halt with minimum injuries.

The interiors of cars are designed to do this.

The essence of monocoque is that it is a cage surrounded by shock absorbing zones - re-inforcing the cage for racing doesn't alter thew concept - apart from the fact that racing collisions are intrinsically different from normal road use.

large commercial vehicles are EXTREMELY dangerous - I've driven many thousands of miles in them and they are potentially lethal - the best thing you can do is protect yourself from them with a well-designed modern car.

As for "suspension" I assume you mean everything from steering to shockers etc etc?

Just take a look at the handling of your average pickup - QED.

it's virtually impossible to roll a moddern sedan - a pick up is not so blessed.

They ae now fitting anti-serve etc on some of the high-end models - I haven't read how ell it works. But it was only recently that a Vigo failed the "moose test" in Sweden and all models had to be modifed.

The key in any collision is how the vehicle protects its passengers

and those outside their own vehicle.

In essence the passengers are protected in a cage which is surrounded by shock absorbing zones.

this often leads people to think their car was "weaker" in an accident as it received a lot more damage than a non-shock-absorbing pickup. in fact the vehicle did exactly what it was meant to do.

Building a passenger cage round a chassis is much more difficult as the chassis tends to make the vehicle very rigid and a times the body can even part from the chassis - disaster!

In US the answer was to build enormous shock absorbing front and rear ends onto existing chassis vehicles....this was later of course improved.

Looking at extremes of weight doesn't help.

If a vehicle stops suddenly the passengers - who are also traveling at the same speed as the vehicle - need to have shock absorption or they will receive horrendous injuries if they stop as quickly as the vehicle.

many truck drivers are killed in their vehicles because they don't wear seat belts and trucks are renowned for taking out hundreds of other road users - this is conveniently ignored in the interests of the economy.

there are two aspects to a vehicles safety

passive and active

the pickup is often lacking in both.

active is your ability to avoid accidents and passive is your ability to survive them

pickups have poor handling characteristics, weight distribution and a high centre of gravity - which makes them much less maneuverable than the average family sedan.

Passively they perform worse than most (not all) sedans in collisions - the occupants are subject to much greater stopping forces as the shock absorbing properties are not as good as a sedans, they also can disintegrate in a dangerous way.

If you have a problem with weight - look at it this way - a standard pick up is about the same weight as a Camry - there really isn't a huge difference.

So imagine a Honda Civic with 4 fat people in it and a Vigo 4x4 driven by a little Thai wife - the civic wil actually be heavier!

I enjoy facts

Your posts in this thread have not contained much facts

a 1200kg Civic with 4 fat 100kg persons is 1600 kg. Max loaded weight for a top spec Civic is approx 1800kg. My Vigo 4x4 is more than 2.000 kg, ad driver and I have problem seeing the Civic more heavy. Ad 1000-1500 kg load on the Vigo, and you might see the need for the frame/chassie

If you are so keen on facts rather than theory - and it's theory - i.e. interpretation of facts - that makes the world go round, I'd suggest you check your facts!

[Deeral]

"One swallow does not a summer make"

You are being very obtuse

the Fortuner has a VIGO chassis that has been modified to allow a shorter wheelbase and a different rear suspension - this was allowed by the Thai govt.

If I change the wheels on my Honda Accord, or modify the suspension it is STILL a Honda Accord!...and if you look at how it is built, you'll see why I can't make it into a pick up truck without it falling in half.

I mentioned this in my initial post.It is one of three vehicles that share the same mechanicals and are designed by Toyota especially for the Asian market.

Being pickup based they can be manufactured with minimum automation allowing Toyota to make use of the cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

been to any car factories in Japan, EU,US, Canada or LOS? Didnt think so. I have worked in some and with some. Welcome to the real world

Unfortunately YES!! lots! you may have worked for me!

[Deeral]

cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

So how do they build the sedans out here, do they have thousands of little somchais running around with a panel beating hammer and a stick welder ??

For what its worth Honda has to-date invested over Bht. 21,200 million in its world-class manufacturing facility in Thailand.....

you DO realise how spurious you comment is?If you still think it is relevant, then why don't you go and look for yourself?

[Deeral]

for those with a short memory

"The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base."

[katabeachbum]

The chassis motor in a collision sends the passenger forward at an alarming rate cos the chassis car will not crumple and absorb energy like a monocoque design, that is the downside of a chassis but in race conditions your monocoque has to be stiffened up via an integrated roll bar to stiffen things up. Look at a heavy goods vehicle, has a chassis from one end to the other, are they unsafe ? Any chassis or non chassis vehicle is dependant on it's suspension design for the safety of that vehicle.

It doesn't "send" the passengers in a collision want to continue in the direction they were heading at the speed they were heading! the object is to bring them to a halt with minimum injuries.

The interiors of cars are designed to do this.

The essence of monocoque is that it is a cage surrounded by shock absorbing zones - re-inforcing the cage for racing doesn't alter thew concept - apart from the fact that racing collisions are intrinsically different from normal road use.

large commercial vehicles are EXTREMELY dangerous - I've driven many thousands of miles in them and they are potentially lethal - the best thing you can do is protect yourself from them with a well-designed modern car.

As for "suspension" I assume you mean everything from steering to shockers etc etc?

Just take a look at the handling of your average pickup - QED.

it's virtually impossible to roll a moddern sedan - a pick up is not so blessed.

They ae now fitting anti-serve etc on some of the high-end models - I haven't read how ell it works. But it was only recently that a Vigo failed the "moose test" in Sweden and all models had to be modifed.

The key in any collision is how the vehicle protects its passengers

and those outside their own vehicle.

In essence the passengers are protected in a cage which is surrounded by shock absorbing zones.

this often leads people to think their car was "weaker" in an accident as it received a lot more damage than a non-shock-absorbing pickup. in fact the vehicle did exactly what it was meant to do.

Building a passenger cage round a chassis is much more difficult as the chassis tends to make the vehicle very rigid and a times the body can even part from the chassis - disaster!

In US the answer was to build enormous shock absorbing front and rear ends onto existing chassis vehicles....this was later of course improved.

Looking at extremes of weight doesn't help.

If a vehicle stops suddenly the passengers - who are also traveling at the same speed as the vehicle - need to have shock absorption or they will receive horrendous injuries if they stop as quickly as the vehicle.

many truck drivers are killed in their vehicles because they don't wear seat belts and trucks are renowned for taking out hundreds of other road users - this is conveniently ignored in the interests of the economy.

there are two aspects to a vehicles safety

passive and active

the pickup is often lacking in both.

active is your ability to avoid accidents and passive is your ability to survive them

pickups have poor handling characteristics, weight distribution and a high centre of gravity - which makes them much less maneuverable than the average family sedan.

Passively they perform worse than most (not all) sedans in collisions - the occupants are subject to much greater stopping forces as the shock absorbing properties are not as good as a sedans, they also can disintegrate in a dangerous way.

If you have a problem with weight - look at it this way - a standard pick up is about the same weight as a Camry - there really isn't a huge difference.

So imagine a Honda Civic with 4 fat people in it and a Vigo 4x4 driven by a little Thai wife - the civic wil actually be heavier!

I enjoy facts

Your posts in this thread have not contained much facts

a 1200kg Civic with 4 fat 100kg persons is 1600 kg. Max loaded weight for a top spec Civic is approx 1800kg. My Vigo 4x4 is more than 2.000 kg, ad driver and I have problem seeing the Civic more heavy. Ad 1000-1500 kg load on the Vigo, and you might see the need for the frame/chassie

If you are so keen on facts rather than theory - and it's theory - i.e. interpretation of facts - that makes the world go round, I'd suggest you check your facts!

Please point out the facts I have presented you disagree on

[Spoonman]

for those with a short memory

"The Fortuner is essentially a pickup truck - a variation on the Vigo/innova and shares their chassis.........with some mods to the rear suspension which helps to get a shorter wheel-base."

so they mod the rear suspension to get a shorter wheel base, got any facts to show this, Iam keen to know how this is achieved as I was of the understanding the whole chassis was shorter, same deal with the Ranger/everest deal, the Everest has a shorter chassis.

[katabeachbum]

"One swallow does not a summer make"

You are being very obtuse

the Fortuner has a VIGO chassis that has been modified to allow a shorter wheelbase and a different rear suspension - this was allowed by the Thai govt.

If I change the wheels on my Honda Accord, or modify the suspension it is STILL a Honda Accord!...and if you look at how it is built, you'll see why I can't make it into a pick up truck without it falling in half.

I mentioned this in my initial post.It is one of three vehicles that share the same mechanicals and are designed by Toyota especially for the Asian market.

Being pickup based they can be manufactured with minimum automation allowing Toyota to make use of the cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

been to any car factories in Japan, EU,US, Canada or LOS? Didnt think so. I have worked in some and with some. Welcome to the real world

Unfortunately YES!! lots! you may have worked for me!

So lets have alook at 2 LOS car plants,

one of Toyotas Vigo/Fortuner plant building pickups and SUV on frame. Highly automated and huge investment.

and

Volvo LOS building monocoques only, very similar to their Uddevalla plant, almost no automation and was basicly moved here from Singapore a decade or so ago

[Deeral]

"One swallow does not a summer make"

You are being very obtuse

the Fortuner has a VIGO chassis that has been modified to allow a shorter wheelbase and a different rear suspension - this was allowed by the Thai govt.

If I change the wheels on my Honda Accord, or modify the suspension it is STILL a Honda Accord!...and if you look at how it is built, you'll see why I can't make it into a pick up truck without it falling in half.

I mentioned this in my initial post.It is one of three vehicles that share the same mechanicals and are designed by Toyota especially for the Asian market.

Being pickup based they can be manufactured with minimum automation allowing Toyota to make use of the cheap labour available in these countries without investing in the high tech stuff used in building monocoque vehicles as in the west.

Just go into a factory in the west or Japan and you'll see nobody running around on the production line, only a few "men in white coats" with clip boards checking the machinery.

been to any car factories in Japan, EU,US, Canada or LOS? Didnt think so. I have worked in some and with some. Welcome to the real world

Unfortunately YES!! lots! you may have worked for me!

So lets have alook at 2 LOS car plants,

one of Toyotas Vigo/Fortuner plant building pickups and SUV on frame. Highly automated and huge investment.

and

Volvo LOS building monocoques only, very similar to their Uddevalla plant, almost no automation and was basicly moved here from Singapore a decade or so ago

You really don't know what we are talking about do you?

have I said anywhere ty don't build monocoques in Thailand?and do you actually consider that your comments are in any way pertinent to the point I'm making?

Please if you want to argue my point argue my point, don't make up your own inventions on the side, or at least see them for what they are - comments of a person who has missed the point.

[Deeral]

If you have worked on crash-tests youwill have sen the direct hit testing into a solid object.

The weight here is greater than anyvehicle ever to be thrown at ti.

Ask yourself in a 20, 30 40 etc mphcollision which vehicle would you prefer to be in?

A Jazz

A vigo or

a Volvo 40 tonner?

It doesn't matter which is theheaviest!

The “fact” is you'd probably bebest off in the Jazz.

As most road accidents don't involvehitting a huge unmoveable object straight on then you have to thinkmore about the behaviour of your vehicle after a collision

Are you purely selfish?

Do you mind killing everyone in theother vehicle and around you....well the law in most countries hasregulations to limit the collateral damage a vehicle can cause –these are construction weight and height limits etc to try and ensurethat vehicles are the same height etc.

Unfortunately pickups and in othercountries, SUVs are outside a lot of these regulations and continueto be a menace to other motorists.

The occupants however rare lulled intoa false sense of security by the size of their vehicle. Usually aftera collision cars will continue on, maybe rolling or what ever –inside the passenger compartment things become crucial.

In UK many years ago they had a “weara seat belt” ad that really brought it all home very simply.

Jimmy Saville – the presenter – putan egg n an egg carton and shock it, he then put the egg in a shoebox and shook it, opened it and asked if this could be you without aseat belt.

Unless strapped in the occupants flyaround and collide with each other – imagine repeatedlyhead-butting you own child to death – what you collide with in theinterior is also important as the vehicle is battered, are theoccupants exposed to sharp edges etc?

Do the seats stay fastened? Does thepassenger compartment remain attached to the chassis? What aboutglass? Air bags may have initially restrained you but with continuedmovement they are no longer of use. Whiplash, head-butted by the rearpassengers who wasn't belted in, skull and spinal injuries fromflying around the interior – all this has been considered in modernsedan design, but a pickup is a COMMERCIAL vehicle developed OUTSIDEthese regulations and although companies are now improving hem, as Isaid before you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Thesevehicles are basically very OLD in design a relic of the past thatdeveloping nations have found very useful in providing cheaptransport to a bourgeoning market.

But please just because it has electricwindows, don't assume it is a safe as your family sedan.

[Spoonman]

Are you drunk or is english not your native tongue Deeral as I found that exceptionally hard to read.