Thai Democrats Did Not Act With Corrupt Intent : EC Adviser

[webfact]

DISSOLUTION TRIAL

Democrats did not act with corrupt intent : EC adviser

By Kornchanok Raksaseri

The Nation

An Election Commission adviser told the Constitution Court yesterday that the Democrat Party was not involved in "invalid" receipts related to Bt29 million given by the EC for election campaign ads.

"I considered whether the Democrat Party was involved [in the irregularities]. The company was hired to produce election campaign boards. It issued receipts for the Democrat Party and then the party submitted the receipts to the EC," ML Prateep Charoonroj said.

He said Democrat Party did not acknowledge the issuing of false receipts. Moreover, the party's account had passed an accounting audit.

The EC filed a party-dissolution case against the Democrat Party, claiming it failed to spend some Bt29 million it received from the EC's Political Party Development Fund as indicated in its original proposal.

Yesterday saw the first hearing for witnesses presented by the Democrat Party. Prateep was the day's only witness.

Prateep is an EC adviser who was the chairman of an EC panel that investigated the case. He decided to suggest not filing a case against the party.

A representative of the attorney-general pointed to signatures by the Democrats approving copies of the receipts. But these, Prateep said, were only approval for copies of receipts and did not mean the party acknowledged they were invalid receipts.

Attorney-general's representative Kittinan Thatpramook also said the accounts auditor verified only the documents and figures as presented by the Democrats but did not look into debt obligations. He also pointed out that the budget the party gave to the Magnet Signs company to produce the campaign boards was Bt4 million but the receipts showed only Bt2.03 million.

Magnet Signs executive Wasinee Thongjua told the court previously that her firm, which subcontracted other companies to produce the boards, did not issue receipts for the party initially. They were issued retroactively.

Prateep said he believed the party had no corrupt intent. It used the funds received from the EC for the poll campaign boards and the boards were actually produced.

However, Prateep conceded he checked only key elements of receipts and reports and had not looked into smaller details.

Other witnesses, Issara Limsiriwong, chairman of another EC investigation panel, and Komsan Pokong, a former charter drafter, asked for hearing of their evidence to be postponed. They are now due to testify to the court on October 11.

In response to a request by lawyers for the Democrats for permission for Department of Special Investigation chief Tharit Pengdit to testify, the court said Tharit could submit written testimony.

The court said it would not allow hearings to be extended. The last hearing has been scheduled for October 18.

-- The Nation 2010-09-28

[Ricardo]

"the party's account had passed an accounting audit"

Even in countries which have 'proper' international-standards for accounting, and one wouldn't rank Thailand amongst those I'm afraid, there are still major accounting frauds every month.So this quote doesn't really assist the DP's case much.

Perhaps they might set-up a commission, to investigate the possibility of establishing a new quango, which might fund an academic study of possible new accounting-standards, to be introduced at the appropriate juncture, over a period of time, if approved by Parliament ? Call for Sir Humphrey !

[craigt3365]

"the party's account had passed an accounting audit"

Even in countries which have 'proper' international-standards for accounting, and one wouldn't rank Thailand amongst those I'm afraid, there are still major accounting frauds every month.So this quote doesn't really assist the DP's case much.

Perhaps they might set-up a commission, to investigate the possibility of establishing a new quango, which might fund an academic study of possible new accounting-standards, to be introduced at the appropriate juncture, over a period of time, if approved by Parliament ? Call for Sir Humphrey !

How true...my company in the USA went bankrupt after it was discovered they were "cooking the books". With the help of the auditors! One of the partners of the accounting firm was intimately involved and help clear the audit before it went public. Crazy...I lost a lot of money on that one....

[whybother]

"the party's account had passed an accounting audit"

Even in countries which have 'proper' international-standards for accounting, and one wouldn't rank Thailand amongst those I'm afraid, there are still major accounting frauds every month.So this quote doesn't really assist the DP's case much.

Perhaps they might set-up a commission, to investigate the possibility of establishing a new quango, which might fund an academic study of possible new accounting-standards, to be introduced at the appropriate juncture, over a period of time, if approved by Parliament ? Call for Sir Humphrey !

So, all they need to do is do an audit of the audit.

[animatic]

Magnet Signs executive Wasinee Thongjua

Seems totally at the center of all this.

She seems to have cooked the books

and then tried to get the Dems to pay her more because SHE dodged taxes,

and then had to pay them herself for a loss, so she bitched about it and someone dropped a dime,

likely her for revenge, the anti-Dem DSI chief of the time latched on to it and ran with it.

She also clearly didn't pass the order for sizes on properly to her sub-contractors.

But in the eyes of certain it's always the Dems fault.

The more we here the more we see where true blame should be placed.

Will it be.. TIT.

[chantorn]

If a law is broken, a law is broken. Regardless of intent.

[random]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

[whybother]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

What is the crime that has been committed? And who was it committed by?

[rubl]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

Personally I think the THB 29 million case ludicrous with all the ingredients of a Thai soap.

Now the almost THB 300 million donation case, that seems a different matter indeed. Till now less details, but potentially more damaging. We'll wait and see.

Edited September 28, 2010 by rubl

[asiawatcher]

If a law is broken, a law is broken. Regardless of intent.

So why doesn't this apply in your thinking to the Saudi's?

The Dem's have pleaded plausible denial and they are correct in my reading of it all. It is third party hands who 'may' be responsible and not the party itself. If all accounting procedures were verified by audit then professional protocol was adhered to and the onus of proof fell to the accounting firm, not the party. This could never be found complicit in a Western Court. It is no case.

[GarryP]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God knows whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

Edited September 28, 2010 by GarryP

[random]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

What is the crime that has been committed? And who was it committed by?

Is breaching election law a crime? I guess it is and that is why it is in court, there is no dispute over the size of the placards therefore a crime has been committed by the democrat party, they allowed placards that were not in line with election laws in Thailand.

Or is it a breach of election regulations and not a law?

You seem to have all the answers so maybe you can enlighten us all with your wisdom, if you do know you could have not wasted your post trying to belittle and told us what you know, or don't you know yourself?

Either way the dems will be disbanded if we are lucky and the current mob will be out on their ear where they belong.

[random]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God know whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

I read this today also, it would appear that there is some form of video evidence if you were to post the full report, it seemed the case was going to be sidestepped and the evidence ignored until this video came to light which will prove the bias of the courts in the favour of the dems. The court were basically forced into doing their job based on this video and not allowed to let the dems get away with it.

Hopefully the video will come out and people can learn a few truths one way or the other, its either damning or doesn't exist.

[Phuket Stan]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God know whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

I read this today also, it would appear that there is some form of video evidence if you were to post the full report, it seemed the case was going to be sidestepped and the evidence ignored until this video came to light which will prove the bias of the courts in the favour of the dems. The court were basically forced into doing their job based on this video and not allowed to let the dems get away with it.

Hopefully the video will come out and people can learn a few truths one way or the other, its either damning or doesn't exist.

Wonder if the vidio has had the odd insert or three placed within it....the reds are quite deft at that....was having a lovely couple of days with no mention of the red clown Jutaporn ...now I will have to have an early drink

[rubl]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God knows whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

I may have missed this, too many newsflashes. On what site did you see this information ?

Which reminds me. From the 14th this month:

Police Col Suchart Wonganan-tachai handed the court CDs of a 13-minute audio file, which he said was a recording of Prachuap Sangkhao, a Messiah Business and Creation executive, telling a disguised officer his firm received Bt258 million from TPI Polene - a huge cement company - and "siphoned" it to Democrat Party.

( )

Any progress on this ?

Edited September 28, 2010 by rubl

[whybother]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

What is the crime that has been committed? And who was it committed by?

Is breaching election law a crime? I guess it is and that is why it is in court, there is no dispute over the size of the placards therefore a crime has been committed by the democrat party, they allowed placards that were not in line with election laws in Thailand.

Or is it a breach of election regulations and not a law?

You seem to have all the answers so maybe you can enlighten us all with your wisdom, if you do know you could have not wasted your post trying to belittle and told us what you know, or don't you know yourself?

Either way the dems will be disbanded if we are lucky and the current mob will be out on their ear where they belong.

The point is, they have been charged with committing a crime. Based on most of the reports it's definitely not an open and shut case.

[Buchholz]

Is the video from the same team that brought forth the faked Abhisit cassette tape?

Speaking of Jatuporn and his penchant for bogus tapes, did he ever produce the Bout tape he promised?

[GarryP]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God knows whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

I may have missed this, too many newsflashes. On what site did you see this information ?

Which reminds me. From the 14th this month:

Police Col Suchart Wonganan-tachai handed the court CDs of a 13-minute audio file, which he said was a recording of Prachuap Sangkhao, a Messiah Business and Creation executive, telling a disguised officer his firm received Bt258 million from TPI Polene - a huge cement company - and "siphoned" it to Democrat Party.

( )

Any progress on this ?

The Jatuporn threat was mentioned in the newspaper that shall not be mentioned on TV. A hint, not The Nation.

Edited September 28, 2010 by GarryP

[random]

The crime has been committed and I guess ignorance is no defence, there is also the other matter regarding the donation to deal with.

What is the crime that has been committed? And who was it committed by?

Is breaching election law a crime? I guess it is and that is why it is in court, there is no dispute over the size of the placards therefore a crime has been committed by the democrat party, they allowed placards that were not in line with election laws in Thailand.

Or is it a breach of election regulations and not a law?

You seem to have all the answers so maybe you can enlighten us all with your wisdom, if you do know you could have not wasted your post trying to belittle and told us what you know, or don't you know yourself?

Either way the dems will be disbanded if we are lucky and the current mob will be out on their ear where they belong.

The point is, they have been charged with committing a crime. Based on most of the reports it's definitely not an open and shut case.

I understand that, but nevertheless a crime has been committed, there is no doubt in that, it is just a case of whether it was committed by the dems, which it appears it was.

[hammered]

In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality. God knows whether it is an idle threat or not. Seems par for the course.

The day the EC rushed the case to court was the day the reds held part of bangkok comp-lete with firearms and initmidation and the odd beating of any worker in a 7/11 shirt while untouched by the police and they said if the EC didnt send the case to court they couldnt gurantee the safety of the EC and their families and then proceeded to give out addresses and phone numbers live on their little red stage.

The red leadership are all about intimidation and threatend and real violence. That doesnt mean the Dem case weak as it seems at the moment doesnt have substance but a court and a commision should not be threateend and intimidated to make decisions. That is the way of the dictator and not the way of democracy minded people. The statements of the ever more thugguish sounding Jatuporn and before him his earstwhile teammates expose the ideals and philosophies behind the men. One can only hope true red shirts dont share them for if they do the movment is as much about dictatorship and anti-democratic as anything they oppose and probably more insidious.

[hammered]

Is the video from the same team that brought forth the faked Abhisit cassette tape?

Speaking of Jatuporn and his penchant for bogus tapes, did he ever produce the Bout tape he promised?

The tape was produced by a mate of Chalerm's.

Jatuporn is just a brawler type poltician who tries to appeal to macho men around the country who like that kind of style over educated and reasoned arguement. Very Murdochian, and it doesnt rely on anything being the truth but just shouting loudly and claiming is something is true so those that adore believe and repeat it.

[rubl]

Is the video from the same team that brought forth the faked Abhisit cassette tape?

Speaking of Jatuporn and his penchant for bogus tapes, did he ever produce the Bout tape he promised?

The tape was produced by a mate of Chalerm's.

Jatuporn is just a brawler type poltician who tries to appeal to macho men around the country who like that kind of style over educated and reasoned arguement. Very Murdochian, and it doesnt rely on anything being the truth but just shouting loudly and claiming is something is true so those that adore believe and repeat it.

The phrase "physical violence is a sign of verbal incompetence" is wasted on most people. A tenacious, repetitive insistence on something which at the most is a minor part of the truth, possibly an insinuation and may be just a blatant lie, is much more easy. And as the English already knew 'if they don't get you first time, just talk a bit louder'

[Buchholz]

I understand that, but nevertheless a crime has been committed, there is no doubt in that, it is just a case of whether it was committed by the dems, which it appears it was.

Actually, the determination as to whether there has been a crime committed, by anyone, has yet to be determined. It's why they have trials, of which, this one has not yet concluded.

[rubl]

I understand that, but nevertheless a crime has been committed, there is no doubt in that, it is just a case of whether it was committed by the dems, which it appears it was.

Actually, the determination as to whether there has been a crime committed, by anyone, has yet to be determined. It's why they have trials, of which, this one has not yet concluded.

The lady who of her own free will said something like 'if I'd known they would want receipts I would have quoted a higher price', will she be indicted, accused of trying to dodge tax laws ?

As always just wondering

[asiawatcher]

"... In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality."

Just the sort of verbal diarrhea this as*hole red would say. If you have it - present it - if not - run away little man - you are totally inconsequential and you are a coward hiding behind the brevity of those you would incite to riot and take a bullet on your behalf and the mug convicted con on the run whom you receive payments from. Have I missed anything?

[rubl]

"... In the meantime, Red Jatuporn threatens that if the court does not rule on the case fairly and in accordance with the law, he will reveal some damning video evidence which would call into question the courts impartiality."

Just the sort of verbal diarrhea this as*hole red would say. If you have it - present it - if not - run away little man - you are totally inconsequential and you are a coward hiding behind the brevity of those you would incite to riot and take a bullet on your behalf and the mug convicted con on the run whom you receive payments from. Have I missed anything?

You forgot to give him a blank tape and a few red roses

[jfchandler]

That's a silly comment below.

"Intent" is a necessary legal element of a lot of different crimes, in order to gain a conviction...

Time for you to go back to school and read the law books again...

If a law is broken, a law is broken. Regardless of intent.