Thai DSI Confirms Red Shirt Arms Training In Cambodia

[Thai at Heart]

Chantorn , first you have to WIN the war before you can claim victory , all the best equipment in the world does not equate to victory , a-la Afganistan , Thailand does not seem to have the troops trained to use all of their equipment to the best advantage , they also have little armed combat experience . Guerila warfare reduces the worth of equipment , but more produces the worth of the man , diplomacy should be used to the fullest , standing on a soapbox behind your computer achieves little to nothing .

They do have some urban warfare experience in the last few decades. They seem particularly effective when the opposition is largely domestic.

[animatic]

It maybe true, but it's more than likely a load of BS.

Only hard core and cold blooded individuals should be considered as assassins. In the whole of LOS there is not likely to be 39 with 'the right stuff'!

Why train 39 assassins in one group? The more you have the harder it is to control the group.

Why would you tell them the target?

Why would you gather them all in Chiang Mai?

Train 39, pick one or two of the competent ones. ie right stuff.

Or two or three small teams of 2 or 3 at most.

The rest are willing cannon fodder for distractions.

Everyone knows the targets, I know who they'd want to hit.

Chaing mai is Thaksin country. So maybe tell them this is

training on 'holy soil for the cause' yadda yadda yadda

.

[Thaddeus]

Thailand say: Red shirt arms training in Cambodia.

Cambodia say: No such thing.

There can only be 1 truth. Who is lying?

Why can there only be one truth, the reds could have been training in Cambodia and the Cambodians answering the questions didn't know.

[Robby nz]

Cambodia was quite willing to 'hire' Thaksin when Hun Sen knew very well he was a fugitive from justice here in TL.

There seems to be ample evidence that they are also giving refuge to wanted red shirt leaders, Arisaman and Co.

So it is not out of the question they could be helping to train reds.

It could also be that training camps have been set up on the Cambodian side of the border without the cambodian PM,s knowledge, there are some quite remote places in the border region, in some cases protected by land mines from way back.

As for:

Thai PM cautions over Red Shirt arms training claim BANGKOK,

Oct 13 -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on

Wednesday cautioned the public that report of alleged arms training for

hard-core anti-government Red Shirt activists on Cambodian soil was

merely information obtained in investigation which has yet to be

verified, saying he will discuss the issue with his Cambodian

counterpart once the investigation is concluded.

The PM must be diplomatic, he has to deal with Hun Sen for the good of Thailand so saying "he will discuss the issue with his Cambodian counterpart once the investigation is concluded" is the correct thing to do.

[chantorn]

Chantorn , first you have to WIN the war before you can claim victory , all the best equipment in the world does not equate to victory , a-la Afganistan , Thailand does not seem to have the troops trained to use all of their equipment to the best advantage , they also have little armed combat experience . Guerila warfare reduces the worth of equipment , but more produces the worth of the man , diplomacy should be used to the fullest , standing on a soapbox behind your computer achieves little to nothing .

Sure Thailand can win. We are trained in Cambodia aren't we, so we knew all the trick up their sleeves.

Also, we have the advantage of having a strong Baht. Make it cheaper to hire G.I. Joes or the A-team.

[dumball]

Finally chantorn comes up with a breath of reasoning spiked with a modicom of humour , please keep it up as this forum has become rather droll of late .

Thai at heart , well said sir , lots of urban training , had quite the laugh at your comment , just goes to show that the truth can spread humour at times .

[onlooker]

I thought I read many years ago Cambodian "terrorists" trained here in Thailand and were protected by the Thai government.

. . .

I guess I can understand where they are coming from....

Yep, Pol Pot had a villa at a Thai army base not far from Trat and Thai military acted as security guards for him for several years after he was forced out of Cambodia. No doubt that probably upset some of the survivors of the Khmer Rouge regime.

[SergeiY]

Also, we have the advantage of having a strong Baht. Make it cheaper to hire G.I. Joes or the A-team.

lol

[phiphidon]

Cambodia was quite willing to 'hire' Thaksin when Hun Sen knew very well he was a fugitive from justice here in TL.

There seems to be ample evidence that they are also giving refuge to wanted red shirt leaders, Arisaman and Co.

So it is not out of the question they could be helping to train reds.

It could also be that training camps have been set up on the Cambodian side of the border without the cambodian PM,s knowledge, there are some quite remote places in the border region, in some cases protected by land mines from way back.

As for:

Thai PM cautions over Red Shirt arms training claim BANGKOK,

Oct 13 -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on

Wednesday cautioned the public that report of alleged arms training for

hard-core anti-government Red Shirt activists on Cambodian soil was

merely information obtained in investigation which has yet to be

verified, saying he will discuss the issue with his Cambodian

counterpart once the investigation is concluded.

The PM must be diplomatic, he has to deal with Hun Sen for the good of Thailand so saying "he will discuss the issue with his Cambodian counterpart once the investigation is concluded" is the correct thing to do.

"Prime Minister Hun Sen has reaffirmed that Cambodia did not provide weapons training to Thai Red Shirt activists during a meeting with Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva on the sidelines of the 17th ASEAN Summit in Hanoi.

The Prime Minister also denied reports that Red Shirt leader Arisman Pongruengrong had taken refuge in Cambodia and applied for a Cambodian visa at a consulate in Thailand's Sa Kaeo province, Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said upon returning from Hanoi.

"Before the meeting, the Thai media repeatedly published news that Abhisit would raise the issue of Arismanand the Red Shirts with Hun Sen," Hor Namhong said.

"But when meeting with Samdech Hun Sen, Abhisit did not raise even a word about these issues – Samdech raised the matter."

SUNDAY, 31 OCTOBER 2010 20:48 CHEANG SOKHA

THE PHNOM PENH POST

[Pi Sek]

So what? All that confirms is that Abhisit has the diplomatic ability to allow Hun Sen to bring up something that he knows has to be discussed by both parties.

If Hun Sen hadn't have brought it up, he would have looked like he had something to hide. If Abhisit had brought it up, Abhisit would have looked like he was trying to demonise the Red Shirts (which he has NEVER done to date, despite the death threats, blood rituals and all).

This way was best for everyone involved (except Arisaman, Thaksin and PTP)... but I'm sure that you'd still find something to moan about, regardless of whatever was brought up by whomever.

After all, wasn't he responsible for the 2006 coup, the court decision in 2008, the 20 mythical corpses in 2009, the 91 civilians in 2010 and the burning of Bangkok? (Jatuporn says so!)

[whybother]

"Prime Minister Hun Sen has reaffirmed that Cambodia did not provide weapons training to Thai Red Shirt activists during a meeting with Thai premier Abhisit Vejjajiva on the sidelines of the 17th ASEAN Summit in Hanoi.

<snip>

"Cambodia did not provide weapons training". That doesn't mean that red shirts didn't DO some weapons training in Cambodia. It just means that Cambodia didn't provide it.

[rubl]

The way Thailand and Cambodia are often engaged in 'brotherly' twists it doesn't surprise me at all that reports of the same event, but in Thai or Cambodian press releases or articles differ a wee bit.

As for weapons training I'm willing to believe the Cambodian government wasn't actively involved.

[Buchholz]

Cambodia Deals a Blow to Thaksin

Thais and Cambodians alike are puzzled following the abrupt shift of Phnom Penh's policy toward Bangkok. This new policy is more amicable, more compromising and less confrontational. Cambodian Prime Minister Samdech Hun Sen, in particular, is seen to have enthusiastically welcomed a renewed relationship with his former enemies across the border – Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, with potentially ominous personal implications for Thaksin Shinawatra, the deposed Thai Prime Minister who continues to lead protest inside the country from afar.

In my interview with a self-exiled UDD leader, he admitted that the entire strategy of the current pro-democracy red-shirt movement, which included the UDD, independent groups inside and outside Thailand, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his team, and possibly some members of the Puea Thai Party, has not been uniformly conceived. This condition could open the door for the radical elements to exploit the movement's ambiguous agenda and strategy. The interviewee also hinted that Hun Sen himself might not be able to confirm that so-called red shirt militants are being trained on his soil. In fact, Cambodian Defence Minister Tea Banh said over the weekend that he did not know if Arisman Pongruangrong, presently charged of terrorism in connection with political violence during the red-shirt protests, is in hiding in his country. And this could explain why Hun Sen was willing to cooperate with the Thai authorities, to find out the truth himself.

It may also explain why Hun Sen has lately been distancing himself from the red-shirt movement and instead befriending the Abhisit government. Back in October 2009, Hun Sen publicly offered his support to Thaksin and the UDD. He stated, "This is just moral support from me. As one million Thai people of the red-shirt group support Thaksin, why cannot I, as a friend from afar, support Thaksin?" But it becomes clearer now that the red-shirt movement, and to some extent the Puea Thai Party, have been in serious disarray. The fragmentation within the red-shirt camp, partly because most of its core leaders are under detention, has compelled Hun Sen to reconsider whether supporting the red shirts is still in his country's interest. The red-shirt UDD is not the only casualty in this perplexing diplomatic game between Cambodia and Thailand. Thaksin, too, has become Hun Sen's estranged partner. The political situation in Thailand has changed drastically within the past six months, precisely after the violent crackdown on street protesters in Bangkok in May 2010. Some red-shirt members were accused of engaging in terrorist acts. Thaksin, increasingly politically marginalized, has been labelled by his opponents as the chief operator of a terrorist network. Hun Sen may only now realise that Thaksin, once perceived as Cambodia's long-term interest, is slipping away and that it will be very difficult for him to return to power anytime soon.

Continues:

http://asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2795&Itemid=185

Asia Sentinel - November 2, 2010

Edited November 2, 2010 by Buchholz

[ianbaggie]

Vermin and scum, pure and simple. All for the sake of bringing a convicted, corrupt, power-hungry piece of sh1t back so it can line its own pockets.

Couldnt have put it better myself - funny how they call themselves the "UNITED FRONT FOR DEMOCRACY AGAINST DICTATORSHIP exactly what theyre NOT!!

[ianbaggie]

Sounds like more thai BS as usual.

@chantorn - As for thai seal fly in like Rambo movie? - end up not flying out Khmers would give them a right bollocking.

Seems you really can fool SOME of the people ALL of the time - shame the word BRIT is involved with your post - we dont usually support terrorists

[ianbaggie]

So the DSI has no evidence at all for this fairytale?

Just what the 11 men - who nobody knows if they even exist told them?

For all we know they could all be government agents placed there and conveniently disappear in a witness protection scheme after they are "arrested".

Nobody has ever seen them - for now they remain as elusive as the 50.000 pro government protesters a few weeks ago in Udon.

The 11 men are not known to anybody and are under a witness protection scheme which officially does not exist in Thailand?

How convenient is that! How stupid does this government think people are? As long as they remain unknown without legal counsel and an independent body who confirms what they say - the government can tell us whatever they want.

If you accuse an independent country of training assassins to be used against your government you better have some hard independently verified evidence!

The police colonel in charge of the raid at the "resort" had officially confirmed after the raid that nothing illegal had been found - and those are the facts - everything else is nothing but hearsay and government fairy-tails.

Your post is irrelevant and downright wrong - a more pertinent question is "Does Thaksin Shinawatra think all people in Thailand are as stupid as YOU - well done to the Government for uncoivering another act of red shirt terrorism!!

[ianbaggie]

Did anybody really really expect things to be different?

After 90 people were murdered, assasinated, killed on the streets of Bangkok!

Did they expect the people just to forgive and forget? This is now about revenge! and even after Politicians have made up those effected by it won't.

Abhisit really needs to get that independent inquiry moving to establish just who was responsible for the killings otherwise this will continue for a long long time.

He also needs to be a lot more transparent I mean not even Autopsy results have been released on the foreigners who were killed. Why? whats the big deal release the infos

otherwise it just looks like a cover up!

The best outcome would be if both sides were found to be responsible and share the blame. ( is that possible? I doubt it )

Oh I almost believed this story until I read the follow up's.

They just can't resist bringing the Establishment into it can they, this will only cause more hate and resentment.

I don't think there will be a solution soon it took 10 years after the 1976 massacre.

Are you including the 20 or so bombed shot and killed by red shirts and black shirts - the innocent shoppers, the police standing at checkpoints, the army armed only with riot shields and battons fired at by black shirts with Cambodian supplied Thaksin funded M16 rifles? Choose your words more carefully - many of us dont forget red shirt attrocities. Disgusting that Farang dont know better than to be a free Thaksin puppet - at least the Thai red shirts charge 500 baht a day!! Question is - does Thaksin expect Thais to just forgive and forget - if he ever does get back to Thailand Im sure therell be an M16 round with his name on it - security or not!!

Edited November 3, 2010 by ianbaggie

[ianbaggie]

Thailand say: Red shirt arms training in Cambodia.

Cambodia say: No such thing.

There can only be 1 truth. Who is lying?

Why can there only be one truth, the reds could have been training in Cambodia and the Cambodians answering the questions didn't know.

No..................i think youll find shes right here - just because Cambodians dont know doesnt make it not the truth - it can still only be one thing or the other

[phiphidon]

So the DSI has no evidence at all for this fairytale?

Just what the 11 men - who nobody knows if they even exist told them?

For all we know they could all be government agents placed there and conveniently disappear in a witness protection scheme after they are "arrested".

Nobody has ever seen them - for now they remain as elusive as the 50.000 pro government protesters a few weeks ago in Udon.

The 11 men are not known to anybody and are under a witness protection scheme which officially does not exist in Thailand?

How convenient is that! How stupid does this government think people are? As long as they remain unknown without legal counsel and an independent body who confirms what they say - the government can tell us whatever they want.

If you accuse an independent country of training assassins to be used against your government you better have some hard independently verified evidence!

The police colonel in charge of the raid at the "resort" had officially confirmed after the raid that nothing illegal had been found - and those are the facts - everything else is nothing but hearsay and government fairy-tails.

Your post is irrelevant and downright wrong - a more pertinent question is "Does Thaksin Shinawatra think all people in Thailand are as stupid as YOU - well done to the Government for uncoivering another act of red shirt terrorism!!

OK, let's all just wait for the DSI to provide the evidence then.

[phiphidon]

So the DSI has no evidence at all for this fairytale?

Just what the 11 men - who nobody knows if they even exist told them?

For all we know they could all be government agents placed there and conveniently disappear in a witness protection scheme after they are "arrested".

Nobody has ever seen them - for now they remain as elusive as the 50.000 pro government protesters a few weeks ago in Udon.

The 11 men are not known to anybody and are under a witness protection scheme which officially does not exist in Thailand?

How convenient is that! How stupid does this government think people are? As long as they remain unknown without legal counsel and an independent body who confirms what they say - the government can tell us whatever they want.

If you accuse an independent country of training assassins to be used against your government you better have some hard independently verified evidence!

The police colonel in charge of the raid at the "resort" had officially confirmed after the raid that nothing illegal had been found - and those are the facts - everything else is nothing but hearsay and government fairy-tails.

Your post is irrelevant and downright wrong - a more pertinent question is "Does Thaksin Shinawatra think all people in Thailand are as stupid as YOU - well done to the Government for uncoivering another act of red shirt terrorism!!

How is it irrelevant? Pictures of the men and alleged confessions have been provided to the press by CRES but has anyone seen the DSI "evidence" that proves they were training in Cambodia? Do you not think Abhisit would have provided hard evidence instead of saying that he was to ask Hun Sen to investigate (which in the end he didn't do). Please try and reply without using the name Thaksin, unless he is mentioned in the evidence.

Edited November 3, 2010 by phiphidon

[TAWP]

Since when do Prosecutors publicize all evidence in newspapers?