Thai Tradespeople.

[elkangorito]

Thailand has a Vocational Education system, which produces tradespeople. The 'trades' taught in Thailand are;

1] Electrical.

2] Welding.

3] Automotive (mechanical).

4] Building & Construction.

5] Production Technology (incorporating Fitting & Machining).

Please note that Plumbing is not a trade course in Thailand.

What is your opinion of Thai tradespeople?

Was the work up to your expectation?

Was the price acceptable?

If you feel that improvement is needed, in what way could things be improved?

These are just a few questions amongst many possible questions.

At this point in time, my opinion of tradespeople in Thailand is rather low. This is because I work within the 'system' & see the end product.

Please try to be 'objective' with your reply.

[FarangBuddha]

Could it be because it attracts marginally qualified people because the salaries are low or because the work is considered low class [working outside (often) with ones hands. Maybe considered one step up from a farmer or common unskilled labourer. I don't know...just asking.

What is the general salary level for trained tradesmen in the job classifications you mention? I know that the minimum daily wage varies from province to province but is know about B 200 per day. I read recently that skilled assembly-line workers in Thai auto plants make around B 400 a day. [Actually the manager was complaining that these wages were getting too high and might cause Thailand to become uncompetitive in this sector if productivity didn't improve or salary demands moderate.]

To answer you question, I have had good and bad tradesmen [mainly air-con and hot-water heater installers [plumber or electrician?]. The air-con kids seemed to know what they were doing because I have not had any problems with them but the hot-water heater installers have been complete cock-ups. Used too small gauge of wire which caused shorts in my system and also blew-out the units themselves [a couple times].

Any suggestions on where/how to locate good tradesmen for work and what a fair rate of compensation [hourly or daily] would be?

[surayu]

By giving an honest and impartial judgement, one here would almost inevitably end up being accused of "bashing" the thais and their country......good luck.

[IanForbes]

I'd have to agree with both of the above replies. There is no consistency because the government hasn't set up any strict guidelines. it is like the poor education system.

[sillyman99]

I have never met people that are so able to turn their hands to almost anything, I've never met many Farangs like that at all.

These so called unskilled people can build a house from foundations up, these are not skilled workers, have had very little training, yet they certainly get by.

I know this thread will turn into yet another Thai slag fest, but if Thai people had the same opportunities as we had, and we had what they had, we'd all be working for them for peanuts.

And they would have threads running on internet forums and they'd all slap each other on their smug backs about how great they are, and how stupid and useless we are.

Farangs are the lucky ones, yet they still can't resist putting the boot in on those less fortunate, having digs at Thai people anonymously, safe in the house or the condo that low paid Thai workers built, but could never dream of owning.

What a sad way to end up.

Edited October 13, 2010 by sillyman99

[electau]

It takes a minimum of 4 years to become a qualified competent tradesman in a chosen field. Theory and practical experience.

The problem with Thailand is the low standard of the education system. There are no recognised standards for evaluation purposes. Eg,there is no licencing requirements for electricians and plumbing and gas fitting is a licenced trade in many countries.

[doggie888888]

It all comes down to attitude. You can have a "qualified" farang who has the attitude and morals of a dead rat, you get nothing for the western prices you pay. Or, you can have an average Thai with a positive attitude, who wants to learn and is interested in what you want, you will get excellent results for half the prices that a farang would charge for their so-called "western standards".

Above is precisely my own experience. Farang builder who was totally disinterested (except when quoting or charging) and incompetent. Ended up blaming his Thai workers! When I subsequently employed some Thai workers to fix up the problems, most of them were better than the idiot farang.

Don't let the farang face and promise of "western standards" blind you to the fact that there are good Thai tradespeople with good attitude. Why bother with the farang when they charge more with no guarantee of results, when you can use a local and end up with same risks. Sorry to say this, in Pattaya, the farang is as risky as locals but at higher costs.

Edited October 14, 2010 by doggie888888

[FarangBuddha]

I know this thread will turn into yet another Thai slag fest, but if Thai people had the same opportunities as we had, and we had what they had, we'd all be working for them for peanuts.

I certainly hope not and certainly not by me. I only wish the Thais to upgrade their skilled tradesman training both for the development of the Thai economy and so that working in the trades can provide a rewarding and financial sustainable employment option for many people...it can be a backbone for expanding the middle-class in Thailand.

[afarang]

I had an extra room added to my house. Used A LOCAL Thai ,from my village. Excellent job.Also, a very poorly built floor , in one room collapsed. Was rebuilt very well. Had a contact breaker box installed- no problems. Auto- I use 2 mechanics, one is a fantastic "bush" mechanic. Really clever. The other ,the owner is very smart. Happy with both. Auto elec , I use is very good, quick and cheap, Excellent work. I have recommended them all to other farang, all happy

[stiggy]

Doggie has a similar view to my own experiences,I have had lots of work building/electrics etc conducted in Thailand.

Thai Builders

Just like elsewhere you get what you pay for ,a friend with an uncle that can do that type of work stay clear.

Pay the balance of the full amount no matter what the job after its compleated and you are happy

Expect the prices to be + or - 20% of quote no different to EU really.

Exellent concrete work.

I would often supervise, IE drink tea and be present, not due to lack of trust but my inability to convey in Thai exactly what I need doing.

Expect some problems due to above and just deal with it , one time we waited 2 mths for some imported glass blocks.We went to the pier with Truck and builders to collect our 13 boxes of colored bricks, to discover one box with 13 bricks in it ! The builders still take the p88s out of me for that one.

The key is a good Thai foreman let builders going awol etc be his problem its worth the extra money.

Overall build quality has been good, I as mentioned will often be present particualry at finishing stage.

Western builders/trades people in Thailand from my experince.

Expensive, will blame there own shortfalls on the " crap" thais working for them.

Will guarantee there work then leave the country ?

Twice had them bugger off mid job extended visa runs and one two month EU visit.

However good and bad I guess everywhere, my own experience has been more easy with Thais, however some western people have had rave reviews from my mates again you get what you pay for.

Edited October 14, 2010 by stiggy

[robblok]

My experience is that they are real bad. I am not good with my hands but i started buying tools and doing things myself because the Thais often did it worse then me. (that says something).

But i understand you get what you pay for Thai trades people are often low paid people. The problem is you dont get better quality if you pay more because they will still use the same people.

Yesterday i had a water heater installed. Before it was done totally wrong and the guy who came had to laugh and cry. He saw how the old builder has done it and it was totally wrong. Pipes connected in a wrong way and i could not use my normal faucet to use it. I thought it was the only way because i did not know better and believed the former builder even though it looked bad and did not work good. But the new installer put the new one on the right way and it works 10 times better and looks better.

The thing was this guy puts them up for a living and the other builder does it sometimes. So i tipped the guy big to show him i liked his work. (it was a free install came with the heater).

So in general i am not impressed but there are exceptions.

[GuestHouse]

Speaking from experience of working with Thai trades people on large scale industrial projects (ie work controlled against international industrial standards).

Thai Electricians (Wiremen, Electrial Technicians, Electrical Engineers, Electrical Supervisors)

Working on High Voltage Substations: Utility and Essential Services Power Distribution; Fixed and temporary Generators (From Diesel Motors through GTG/Steam Turbine Driven Generators). Office power distribution, HVAC Systems (Industrial/Common Office Systems/Stand-alone)

My experience has been that Thai personnel performing these roles have performed consistently well (as good as their counterparts I've worked with in the UK/EU)

Thai Welders

Large Scale Industrial Projects I've worked on with Thai welders have achieved world class quality records (pass rates of inspected welds v weld requiring reworking).

Major international process industry corporations are sourcing high pressure vessels and modularized piping units out of Thailand - Seems they have faith in Thai welders.

Automotive (Mechanical)

The only automotive work I have anything to do with is getting our cars serviced at the main dealers - I'm more than happy with the service quality and price.

Thai mechanical fitters and technicians I've worked with on large mechanical installations (ie installing Steam generating plant and turbines) have been as good as any I've worked with in the UK or EU.

Fitting and Machining

Fitting and machining I've ordered in Thailand , including the manufacture/fabrication of special order components has always been of a high standard and at a very reasonable price.

[steelepulse]

Would the example of the dive boat that just caught fire in Phuket and was damaged to the extent of 10 million baht be an example of qualified tradesmen? One guy welding while another guy carrying fuel on board, Poof!

[robblok]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry this is long. .. Deal with it. And NO this is not a slag fest about thai tradesmen, as I have morphed into a kinder gentler Tod than my earlier posting penchants, although my penchant for bloviation has not diminished.

In some of my endeavors here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" I have had the occasion to use thai tradesmen in electrical, welding & building/construction.

The only one which exceeded my expectations was the welding one; where some tricky TIG (heli-arc) welding was required on aluminum. This thai welder knew his stuff and had excellent equipment. Then again maybe that's because I went to vocational school in the US as a kid and took every sort of welding there was at the time, so the thai welder and I hit it off almost immediately.

In the other trades; it became clear almost from the start, that unless I was there every second of every hour they worked they'd take the easy-out or short cut rather than doing it right the first time. On more than one occasion I forced them to tear out the sub-standard work they’d done that day and redo it. This is not a slam to the thai workers ability or their attitude, but more against their foreman who allowed sub-standard work to be the norm. The workers were more than happy to do it the correct way once it was pointed out that was the way it had to be done.

Finally I got so exasperated that I devoted ALL my time to supervising the work. Initially the thais were less than thrilled with a foreigner hanging around and watching their every move, and in fact were rather sulky for the first week. However, once they saw I wasn’t gonna leave, and actually knew some short cuts to what they were doing they lightened up. Some of the things I showed them, they took to heart and are probably still doing it that way. Plus the finished work came out incredible. The tile worker took pictures of the one floor I had laid in a condo which ran diagonal to the room with contrasting border tiles and now it’s the background on his business card!

Tile, wood flooring, re-wiring, re-plastering walls, hanging new ceilings & doors, trim and moldings etc, all were finished not only on time, but on the pre-agreed budget too. Like I said, this was only AFTER I started over-seeing the work every step of the way, every hour of the work day. In fact because I was there so much that the thai 'foreman' of the job wouldn't even show up any more; although he did show up at the end of the job to try to get his salary. I took his price; calculated it out by the day, deducted the MANY days he wasn't there, and paid him that amount. He was certainly less than a happy camper, but all he really did was point, yell, and drink himself into a stupor each day. In my book; if you don't work, you don't get paid.

Now did I pay more than a thai would pay for similar work? In all likelihood yes, but I don't believe it was that much more. The big question is; was the quality of work I had done to a higher standard than the normal b/s quality I see every day wandering around bangkok? That answer is; 100% YES!!. And NO I’d never ever contract with a foreign owned company for ANY job here, and I had about bids from three foreign owned ones. Actually I did steal, errr, I mean borrowed one of the foreigners tile layers; as he had his own wet saw instead of that b/s hand held grinder they use to cut tile.

3 years on living on the ground floor of a flood prone area, and the wood floors have been underwater too many times to count, yet not a single plank or parquet has warped, came loose or popped up. The tile work I had done is still pristine; although I was unable to find anything other than that b/s tile grout they sell here so I hafta re-grout the floor tiles in the bathroom every once in a while. Still the tile is firmly stuck down, none has chipped, cracked or broken out, so that's a plus.

I concur the reason the quality is so iffy is there are no vetting processes in being a tradesman here. It would appear that any Tom, Dick or Somchai can be what ever they want to be simply by possessing basic hand tools, making business cards, plastering up stickers or painting the side of their truck with their field of alleged expertise.

FWIW; I haven't really had any problem with the quality of HVAC tradesmen here as it's mostly installed by the company you buy the units from.

[inmysights]

I have never met people that are so able to turn their hands to almost anything, I've never met many Farangs like that at all.

These so called unskilled people can build a house from foundations up, these are not skilled workers, have had very little training, yet they certainly get by.

I know this thread will turn into yet another Thai slag fest, but if Thai people had the same opportunities as we had, and we had what they had, we'd all be working for them for peanuts.

And they would have threads running on internet forums and they'd all slap each other on their smug backs about how great they are, and how stupid and useless we are.

Farangs are the lucky ones, yet they still can't resist putting the boot in on those less fortunate, having digs at Thai people anonymously, safe in the house or the condo that low paid Thai workers built, but could never dream of owning.

What a sad way to end up.

I completely agree with you Not A Sillyman. My Thai husband and I unwittingly built a house which then fastly became a predominantly farang area on Phuket.

Soon after the 'boom' bombed (thanks Surayud) we were stuck here, inside this farang enclave:bah:. My husband who too, could turn his hand to almost everything, was asked to carry out odd jobs, anything from house painting to plumbing, decking, pool cleaning, for peanuts. He did it anyway, and try getting payment out of the tight farang here was a bloody nightmare. Never again.

You petite bourgoise come here and talk of 'tradespeople'? Where do you think you are? Bournemouth?

Edited October 14, 2010 by inmysights

[inmysights]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

Your point being? Do you honestly believe that your paying the big boss more will ensure it gets passed on to his Burmese/Hmong workers?

[thaihome]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

I have worked in the construction trades for some 30 years now, as union craft worker in the US for 10 years, as QC and Field Engineer in the US for 8 years, and in Management on major projects in Asia for going on 12 years now.

Guest House’s experiences mirror my own in Thailand. These are on major projects with major Thai engineering and construction companies. As another said, they pay the highest and get the best. This is just like in the US. The cheapest and least skilled workers tend to be in the residential and small commercial field. There are very good people in smaller businesses, but the best tend to gravitate to big projects where they get paid the most and make the most overtime.

Thats what I did anyway.

TH

[FarangBuddha]

You petite bourgoise come here and talk of 'tradespeople'? Where do you think you are? Bournemouth?

Let's not turn this into a class-war or and exegesis on Marxism

I don't' think people are using the term to demean or put-down said workers...only as a convenient term of art to refer to people working in these skilled building trades. I mean, we could hardly refer to them as "office workers" or "professional executives" now could we?

[IanForbes]

Tod Daniels wrote a very good post, and I agree totally with his assessment. Having built my own home in Canada from the ground up I'm quite familar with all the trades: electrical, plumbing, framing, roofing, finishing, cabinetry, plastering, etc. I watch the builders all the time. Many use short cuts that would be a no-no by North American standards.

However, I've also seen some amazing work done in Thailand and always wonder why the discrepancy in the normal work done. It's probably tradesmen who never really went to school and just picked it up on their own. I'm always amazed in those huge tangle of wires that pass for commercial wiring in the streets.

[travelmann]

Yet but after all this where ANYWHERE is there a list on Thai Visa of GOOD work people, its often asked but not often answered you really would think a decent crew of workmen could clean up here and scoop all the Farang business, or is it just a case ofpeople not wanting to pay for it????

About time there wa s good list of reliable honest architects builders plumbers carpenters etc etc

I'll be embarking on constructing a rather comeplex shaped house soon so I will report back, one person who I have heard good things off is a chap in Pattaya area called "Fluke" he's Thai and appears on a build in another website which is "cool" hint hint.

[robblok]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

Your point being? Do you honestly believe that your paying the big boss more will ensure it gets passed on to his Burmese/Hmong workers?

My point exactly.. paying more does not get you better quality.. just more profit for the boss. What i mean was id gladly pay more if they had better quality workers.

[surayu]

I'm always amazed in those huge tangle of wires that pass for commercial wiring in the streets.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone finally find out that It's just a very long single wire that goes round in circle

Edit: ...spelling

Edited October 14, 2010 by surayu

[sillyman99]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

Your point being? Do you honestly believe that your paying the big boss more will ensure it gets passed on to his Burmese/Hmong workers?

My point exactly.. paying more does not get you better quality.. just more profit for the boss. What i mean was id gladly pay more if they had better quality workers.

You wanna pay western wages ?

So, you would pay a Thai guy 300 pounds, 15,000 baht just to give you an estimate ?

You will pay a Thai guy 10.000 Baht per day to lay bricks, and the same for a tiler and a painter and a steelworker.

Absolute <deleted>, why don't people pay for houses in cash in UK, yet paying for a house in cash is normal for Farangs in Thailand.

We are very very lucky, appreciate it please !!

[sillyman99]

I'm always amazed in those huge tangle of wires that pass for commercial wiring in the streets.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone finally find out that It's just a very long single wire that goes round in circle

Edit: ...spelling

And I wouldn't be surprised if it was you following it.

[stander]

In 1999 I was working on a large power project here in Thailand, which had an almost 100% Thai workforce and the quality and speed of work was excellent.

Our company had a similar one going on in the UK, with a British workfoce, which was running into all sorts of delays and cost over runs, so I was asked to go and see if I could help out.

When I got there I was amazed at the slow pace, poor quality workmanship and just the general "I don't give a shit" attitude of the workforce.

The work hours were something like 07:00 to 16:00 with a one hour lunch break, but it soon became clear to me that we were lucky to get three hours of average to poor quality work.

I rotated between the two projects for ten months and the difference was like day and night.

[robblok]

@ guesthouse

I think the difference is there are standards to be upheld there and those people get better wages and are better trained.

The problem is that for most of us its hard to get those kind of people to work for us building our homes or modifying them.

Just paying more for a job often means there is a bigger profit for the builder. They wont spend it on better employees. I would gladly pay more for a better quality job.

Your point being? Do you honestly believe that your paying the big boss more will ensure it gets passed on to his Burmese/Hmong workers?

My point exactly.. paying more does not get you better quality.. just more profit for the boss. What i mean was id gladly pay more if they had better quality workers.

You wanna pay western wages ?

So, you would pay a Thai guy 300 pounds, 15,000 baht just to give you an estimate ?

You will pay a Thai guy 10.000 Baht per day to lay bricks, and the same for a tiler and a painter and a steelworker.

Absolute <deleted>, why don't people pay for houses in cash in UK, yet paying for a house in cash is normal for Farangs in Thailand.

We are very very lucky, appreciate it please !!

You are indeed as silly and mentally challenged like your name suggest. I congratulate you on finding a name that suits your character.

Never did I state I wanted to pay western prices, i said i wanted to pay more for quality. That does not equal western wages. They make only about 150 bt a day, so to increase that for them substantially would not mean breaking the bank for yourself.

Yes I would pay more to see things get done better it would still be cheap.

Now little boy go home and play more with your computer because you cant afford to go out and play.

[electau]

What the OP is referring to is the tradesman who is generally employed as a contractor or employee on residential construction and maintainance and small commercial work. Exclude contractors and employees engaged in large mining, industrial and commercial work.

He is usually your local electrician, plumber, builder, airconditioning and refrigeration contractor etc.

[electau]

In 1999 I was working on a large power project here in Thailand, which had an almost 100% Thai workforce and the quality and speed of work was excellent.

Our company had a similar one going on in the UK, with a British workfoce, which was running into all sorts of delays and cost over runs, so I was asked to go and see if I could help out.

When I got there I was amazed at the slow pace, poor quality workmanship and just the general "I don't give a shit" attitude of the workforce.

The work hours were something like 07:00 to 16:00 with a one hour lunch break, but it soon became clear to me that we were lucky to get three hours of average to poor quality work.

I rotated between the two projects for ten months and the difference was like day and night.

And what were the reasons for these cost overruns? Underquoted for the work ? other sub contractors? Why were you not working a 12 hour day?

Poor management? there are numerous reasons for cost overruns and they are not all labour related. An 8 hour day/ 5 day week is not much incentive for a constuction worker.

[palm]

What would be great on ThaiVisa is a list of competent, reliable, skilled engineers for most services including electrical work, plumbing, wooden flooring, construction, as well as the more unusual trades such as stainless steel fabrication (for kitchens and bars etc).