Thai Mystery Hotel Death Toll Jumps To Four

[powderpuff]

I vote for the Petula Clark video.

"Things will be great when you're Downtown"

[Gers1873]

Yeah I like Drummond a lot but "secret" is not the correct term. Covered up; hushed up more like.

If the person died "secretly"how do we now they are actually dead? They could just be hibernating - it is winter

I am sure the hotel deaths are being investigated with the usual Thai diligence and efficiency.

[clinique]

Wouldn't it be rather nice if the Embassy of the different individuals here, were to get involved and demand the right to their own seperate autopsy.

Not just in this case, but all instances where there is doubt.

jb1

Such a demand will most certainly be made when the insurance companies get involved.

It will take a lot more than that to get the British Embassy involved.

Also one of the victims was Thai that leaves one NZ who I believe are already involved.

Perhaps one could check with them and see what there findings were. As for them doing there own autopsy. I really don't think they are set up for that. They could use another Thai for it. And if they didn't like his results get another one until they get what they wanted. Not going to happen. they may be government employees but they are not completely brain dead.

As a after thought do you suppose a Embassy could do as good a job as a insurance company.

jayjay0, I understand what you are saying. But yes I would like to think that an Embassy would do a better job than an Insurance company. As an Insurance Company, would be more likely to look at the costs involved and do a deal.

jb1

Frankly all and any dealings Ive had with Embssies over the years have come down to "thanks for letting us know, but dont call us we'll call you" attitude. Seems to me Embassies are are bit like the BIB, Too busy with other things to worry about helping their own nationals.

[softgeorge]

Just rode past the place half an hour ago. Very,very quite out front. Nobody to be seen at all.

Maybe many people are cancelling bookings believing it is just to much of a coincidence. I know Breakaway Travel, a national travel agency in Australia has already cancelled over 500 reservations for the next 12 months. (My father operates a franchise) He says they have a duty of care to customers not to use this hotel. His agency for one doe's not believe the police version of events at this time. But anyway the hotel has been blacklisted from his agency.

)

[EyesWideOpen]

The hotel needs some PR advice at this stage. Instead of the Thai standard cover up and hope everyone forgets, they need to become proactive. Meaning launch their own investigation, find out what is wrong, fix it, then apologize profusely to the family members affected. Otherwise I think the hotel is finished. Thais will figure a evil ghost is at work, and never set foot in the place. And farangs will access to media which will play this story up, and never set foot there either. This is the age of information being freely disseminated, so the old ways of covering up simply do not work anymore.....

[ozzieovaseas]

After all, the powers that be are probably asking themselves the question of why this is mainly happening to farangs and not thais?

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

[coma]

The hotel needs some PR advice at this stage. Instead of the Thai standard cover up and hope everyone forgets, they need to become proactive. Meaning launch their own investigation, find out what is wrong, fix it, then apologize profusely to the family members affected. Otherwise I think the hotel is finished. Thais will figure a evil ghost is at work, and never set foot in the place. And farangs will access to media which will play this story up, and never set foot there either. This is the age of information being freely disseminated, so the old ways of covering up simply do not work anymore.....

The thing is that the hotel operators probably already know what the problem is.If they let the cat out of the bag, people will have to take responsibility for their actions/ or inactions and heads will have to roll.

If what softgeorge says is correct, then it wouldn't only be that tour operator nor just agencies from Australia blacklisting this gaff. This establishment is destined to a long slow death itself. Unless somebody shows some intestinal fortitude and either solves the ..... or confesses up to the ....

Lastly may I add. It astonishes me why this case has not had intervention at ministerial level.The buck stops with them if their subordinates refuse to carry out thier duties correctly. All round a dam_n disgrace that has put a blemish not only on the establishment,but Chiang Mai and Thailand as a whole.

[Credo]

A competitor up to no good, perhaps?

[ozzieovaseas]

I am not Thai, but I find this thread of comments quite offensive. Nobody of any nationality (what's country got to do with it anyway?) has a monopoly on brains, or stupidity. without a firsthand account of the investigation process (news sources don't count) we cannot know what is going on, and the idle, insulting speculation that is going on in this thread is just more hot air. And pretty poisonous hot air at that.

You sound brandnew to the country, you'll figure it out soon enough. The police make the most outrageous conclusions on every foreigner death and expect the world to accept it. Its not just once in a while, its 99% of the time, they immediately blame something ridiculous to absolve any Thai person of wrong doing or incompetence.

I used to read the newspapers until I just couldn't take it anymore. Every single freaking day it was like reading the funny papers, only unfortunately it was real news.

EXAMPLE:

An article describing the death of 2 foreign men dying in the same room in Chiangmai, bodies lying across eachother... police immediately concluded and told the press that they drank too much and had simultaneous heart attacks. Sound familiar? These people are corrupt to the core, ok I accept that, but not bright enough to realise their lies sound like ridiculous lies and not anything remotely plausible to anyone educated outside the country.

The laughing one has nailed it again.

The only thing i can add is putting some of this down to the ridiculous "face" thing again.

Its just not right for a policeman (or anybody else for that matter) to admit, or say "I DON'T KNOW"..its just not in their vocabuary.

Have you ever asked a Thai for directions and you later find they've sent you in the exact opposite direction...because they didnt know and instead of simply saying so, they prefer to BS and waste a lot more of your time and energy in the process.

Its just all to easy to come up with some alternative weird and prepostrous scenario instead of seeking the truth, but the sad thing is that this sort of behaviour is not only accepted, but <STRONG>expected

[TimTang]

...Another possible explanation is that the foreigners ('falang') committed suicide because they wanted to waste the time of the Royal Thai Police, thereby keeping them from doing useful things, e.g. playing video games.

There was a time a few years back that there seemed to be a epidemic of falang suicides. I knew 2 of them personally.

One was a German who I had been talking to about UNIX security, over a beer, the night before. He wasn't a close friend but we occasionally discussed IT matters in the bar. The next day he was found dead in his room with a plastic bag over his head and a rope tied around his neck. There was absolutely no indication that he was suicidal, and there was absolutely no investigation into his death.

Another guy who was basically an acquaintance which I met through friends died the exact same way. I didn't know him THAT well but we shared a few beers on occasion and we had exchanged mobile phone numbers. One day I got a phone call from his phone, but it wasn't him on the other end. They asked "do you know Andy?" At that time I didn't realize it was his phone because I just picked up without looking. I said "yeah! I know Andy ____ from Singapore" thinking of a different Andy that I had worked with; They just hung-up! The next day I received a call from one of his close friends informing that he had committed suicide. When we all got together to pay our respects, and down a few ales, it became apparent that every number in his phone had been called the day before his death.

It was pretty spooky. For a while I just stopped going out all-together, and when I did go I out, I was very careful with whom ever I spoke to. There was no investigation into his death either.

To this day I still don't know what really happened to these guys.

[coma]

...Another possible explanation is that the foreigners ('falang') committed suicide because they wanted to waste the time of the Royal Thai Police, thereby keeping them from doing useful things, e.g. playing video games.

There was a time a few years back that there seemed to be a epidemic of falang suicides. I knew 2 of them personally.

One was a German who I had been talking to about UNIX security, over a beer, the night before. He wasn't a close friend but we occasionally discussed IT matters in the bar. The next day he was found dead in his room with a plastic bag over his head and a rope tied around his neck. There was absolutely no indication that he was suicidal, and there was absolutely no investigation into his death.

Another guy who was basically an acquaintance which I met through friends died the exact same way. I didn't know him THAT well but we shared a few beers on occasion and we had exchanged mobile phone numbers. One day I got a phone call from his phone, but it wasn't him on the other end. They asked "do you know Andy?" At that time I didn't realize it was his phone because I just picked up without looking. I said "yeah! I know Andy ____ from Singapore" thinking of a different Andy that I had worked with; They just hung-up! The next day I received a call from one of his close friends informing that he had committed suicide. When we all got together to pay our respects, and down a few ales, it became apparent that every number in his phone had been called the day before his death.

It was pretty spooky. For a while I just stopped going out all-together, and when I did go I out, I was very careful with whom ever I spoke to. There was no investigation into his death either.

To this day I still don't know what really happened to these guys.

I will keep a note to make sure I never sit down for a beer with you then dude. Shiiit!

[jimbeam1]

The hotel needs some PR advice at this stage. Instead of the Thai standard cover up and hope everyone forgets, they need to become proactive. Meaning launch their own investigation, find out what is wrong, fix it, then apologize profusely to the family members affected. Otherwise I think the hotel is finished. Thais will figure a evil ghost is at work, and never set foot in the place. And farangs will access to media which will play this story up, and never set foot there either. This is the age of information being freely disseminated, so the old ways of covering up simply do not work anymore.....

The thing is that the hotel operators probably already know what the problem is.If they let the cat out of the bag, people will have to take responsibility for their actions/ or inactions and heads will have to roll.

If what softgeorge says is correct, then it wouldn't only be that tour operator nor just agencies from Australia blacklisting this gaff. This establishment is destined to a long slow death itself. Unless somebody shows some intestinal fortitude and either solves the ..... or confesses up to the ....

Lastly may I add. It astonishes me why this case has not had intervention at ministerial level.The buck stops with them if their subordinates refuse to carry out thier duties correctly. All round a dam_n disgrace that has put a blemish not only on the establishment,but Chiang Mai and Thailand as a whole.

I would like to add to that. Also the ministries/Embassies of the deceased.

jb1

Edited March 6, 2011 by jimbeam1

[brahmburgers]

I didn't see the 'seaweed' thing, except as referenced. MSG is made from seaweed (according to what I've heard), is that the connection?

here are a couple quotes from a website showcasing MSG

This food additive explains many ailments in many people. Much legend and myth is being passed around about MSG to make it seem innocent. In fact, it can cause many different reactions, in some people fatal.

MERK'S MEDICAL MANUAL ONLINE:

"What is popularly called the Chinese restaurant syndrome is not a type of chemical food poisoning. Rather, it is a sensitivity to monosodium glutamate (MSG), a flavor enhancer often used in Chinese cooking. In susceptible people, MSG can produce facial pressure, chest pain, and burning sensations throughout the body. Many people feel anxious as well. The amount of MSG that can cause these symptoms varies considerably from person to person."

May cause itching, nausea, nervous system and reproductive disorders, high blood pressure

MSG is a highly reactive amino acid. It is used by scientists in studies to purposely cause death to areas of the brain and is fed to rodents to make a strain of obese and pre-diabetic test subjects. MSG is classified as a neurotoxin: too much of it introduced to the brain can cause rapid cell death.

A crazy serial poisoner could add poison to snacks, other food, or drink that tourists buy and the authorities would probably never be able to find the poisoner even if they were able to trace all the food and drink consumed to the location of purchase and/or consumption.

Why a 'crazy serial poisoner'? Most restaurants in Chiang Mai have MSG in their items, are they all 'crazy serial poisoners'?

Thairath reports that some of the autopsies have been completed. The elderly English couple - the contents of their stomachs were analysed and no evidence of drugs or poisons found. However, both were found to be suffering from enlarged hearts and blocked arteries and the doctor believes they died from coronary heart disease. [what, both at the same time?]

The 47 year-old female Thai tour guide who died had a stomach upset before she died and they're still analysing some food from her room. The New Zealand girl - they're still waiting for results from food taken from her stomach.

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise. It would be like a US investigator looking to see if someone got drunk from drinking root beer. MSG is nearly as common in Thai cuisine as sugar and salt. There's no way they can see the potential hazard - even for farang who come from places where they don't use as much MSG.

[Ulysses G.]

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise.

That would also include most scientists and medical doctors.

There is no such thing as "MSG" poisoning other than in perhaps a very few people who might be allergic to it - however, they can not eat tomatoes either as they are one of many natural sources.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[trogers]

After all, the powers that be are probably asking themselves the question of why this is mainly happening to farangs and not thais?

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

Cheap lodging means lax security, and coupling this with a locality (city, town, village, island, etc.) that has a local problem with either drug addiction and/or gambling, is to add all the right ingredients for unfortunate events. Example, I will not patronise A-go-go joints at the Suthisarn area in Bangkok, but will not hesitate to meet up with friends at Cowboy or Nana.

[inmysights]

After all, the powers that be are probably asking themselves the question of why this is mainly happening to farangs and not thais?

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

Cheap lodging means lax security, and coupling this with a locality (city, town, village, island, etc.) that has a local problem with either drug addiction and/or gambling, is to add all the right ingredients for unfortunate events. Example, I will not patronise A-go-go joints at the Suthisarn area in Bangkok, but will not hesitate to meet up with friends at Cowboy or Nana.

God. What a ridiculous post.

So by your 'reasoning' (haha), most 'unexplained' deaths should be those (Oh not again ...) would be amongst the 'non quality' tourists - ie backpackers and those wo stay in less that lest 4 star hotels.

And you patronise Nana! LOL! You 'quality tourist' then. Ho hum ....Diktet

[gemini81]

After all, the powers that be are probably asking themselves the question of why this is mainly happening to farangs and not thais?

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

Cheap lodging means lax security, and coupling this with a locality (city, town, village, island, etc.) that has a local problem with either drug addiction and/or gambling, is to add all the right ingredients for unfortunate events. Example, I will not patronise A-go-go joints at the Suthisarn area in Bangkok, but will not hesitate to meet up with friends at Cowboy or Nana.

smart choice. Patronize nana and cowboy: they are among the elite in security, quality, and safety and honesty in police reports ....indeed!!

[doggie888888]

Wasn't there a case of unexplained deaths in some guesthouse on Samui (or Phuket) last year....I am not sure if they ever found out the reasons. I think they were young and healthy Scandinavians/Dutch tourists who just died in their rooms. It was also here on Thaivisa???

[coralia]

Yes, but they had different symptoms... Some people concluded that it was cholera, if I remember correctly. I think it happened on Koh Phi Phi.

[MJP]

Yes, but they had different symptoms... Some people concluded that it was cholera, if I remember correctly. I think it happened on Koh Phi Phi.

Cholera!!!

[trogers]

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

Cheap lodging means lax security, and coupling this with a locality (city, town, village, island, etc.) that has a local problem with either drug addiction and/or gambling, is to add all the right ingredients for unfortunate events. Example, I will not patronise A-go-go joints at the Suthisarn area in Bangkok, but will not hesitate to meet up with friends at Cowboy or Nana.

smart choice. Patronize nana and cowboy: they are among the elite in security, quality, and safety and honesty in police reports ....indeed!!

Yes, and only If you have been into a bar at Suthisarn, can you then judge if such a location is much apart from nana and cowboy.

Edited March 6, 2011 by trogers

[trogers]

There are places in Thailand I still will avoid after having lived here for over 25 years. Staying in cheap lodging is one of them. If you want to avoid being stung by hornets, you avoid a hornet nest.

I see your point Trodgers..

Care to mention some of these places, im sure it would be appreciated by those who get around Thailand a bit..although that might not be allowed to be shown on these pages??

SO..after what you have said, i guess Phi Phi would have to be one of those places

Cheap lodging means lax security, and coupling this with a locality (city, town, village, island, etc.) that has a local problem with either drug addiction and/or gambling, is to add all the right ingredients for unfortunate events. Example, I will not patronise A-go-go joints at the Suthisarn area in Bangkok, but will not hesitate to meet up with friends at Cowboy or Nana.

God. What a ridiculous post.

So by your 'reasoning' (haha), most 'unexplained' deaths should be those (Oh not again ...) would be amongst the 'non quality' tourists - ie backpackers and those wo stay in less that lest 4 star hotels.

And you patronise Nana! LOL! You 'quality tourist' then. Ho hum ....Diktet

As you can see from my example, cheap in my context is comparative. I did not meant you have to stay in lodging of 4-star or higher. A 2-star in a tourist zone in BKK is more expensive than a 2-star in the province, but safer. Example, compare Omni Tower in Sukhumvit Soi 4 with Downtown Inn.

And I have read in TV about backpackers boarding in shophouses that are converted into lodging in Pattaya that have a central staircase, but no fire escape, without comparing issues on safety and security with a similar accommodation in Khao San road.

Edited March 6, 2011 by trogers

[coma]

I didn't see the 'seaweed' thing, except as referenced. MSG is made from seaweed (according to what I've heard), is that the connection?

here are a couple quotes from a website showcasing MSG

This food additive explains many ailments in many people. Much legend and myth is being passed around about MSG to make it seem innocent. In fact, it can cause many different reactions, in some people fatal.

MERK'S MEDICAL MANUAL ONLINE:

"What is popularly called the Chinese restaurant syndrome is not a type of chemical food poisoning. Rather, it is a sensitivity to monosodium glutamate (MSG), a flavor enhancer often used in Chinese cooking. In susceptible people, MSG can produce facial pressure, chest pain, and burning sensations throughout the body. Many people feel anxious as well. The amount of MSG that can cause these symptoms varies considerably from person to person."

May cause itching, nausea, nervous system and reproductive disorders, high blood pressure

MSG is a highly reactive amino acid. It is used by scientists in studies to purposely cause death to areas of the brain and is fed to rodents to make a strain of obese and pre-diabetic test subjects. MSG is classified as a neurotoxin: too much of it introduced to the brain can cause rapid cell death.

A crazy serial poisoner could add poison to snacks, other food, or drink that tourists buy and the authorities would probably never be able to find the poisoner even if they were able to trace all the food and drink consumed to the location of purchase and/or consumption.

Why a 'crazy serial poisoner'? Most restaurants in Chiang Mai have MSG in their items, are they all 'crazy serial poisoners'?

Thairath reports that some of the autopsies have been completed. The elderly English couple - the contents of their stomachs were analysed and no evidence of drugs or poisons found. However, both were found to be suffering from enlarged hearts and blocked arteries and the doctor believes they died from coronary heart disease. [what, both at the same time?]

The 47 year-old female Thai tour guide who died had a stomach upset before she died and they're still analysing some food from her room. The New Zealand girl - they're still waiting for results from food taken from her stomach.

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise. It would be like a US investigator looking to see if someone got drunk from drinking root beer. MSG is nearly as common in Thai cuisine as sugar and salt. There's no way they can see the potential hazard - even for farang who come from places where they don't use as much MSG.

I agree. If it was MSG then people would be going down all over Thailand.

[brahmburgers]

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise.

That would also include most scientists and medical doctors.

There is no such thing as "MSG" poisoning other than in perhaps a very few people who might be allergic to it -

MSG is not necessarily allergic. However, for some, perhaps a small %, it is toxic. For an even smaller %, with a large amount ingested, it can be fatal. If I owned a restaurant (which I do, btw) I wouldn't want to poison even a small % of my customers. MSG defenders seem to say, "the majority of us don't feel adverse affects, so we wish the small % of sufferers would just shut up" Or perhaps they think the people who get poisoned by MSG are faking it. Well I, for one, am not faking it when I can't sleep at night after eating something in a Thai/Chinese restaurant that's laced with MSG. I get headaches, aches over my body, weak and v. quick pulse, violent dreams, parched throat and generally irritable. I don't get any of that when I eat clean food that I prepare at my home - or that I eat in a non-MSG place. It's not allergic, it's a reaction to a toxic substance.

Wasn't there a case of unexplained deaths in some guesthouse on Samui (or Phuket) last year....I am not sure if they ever found out the reasons. I think they were young and healthy Scandinavians/Dutch tourists who just died in their rooms. It was also here on Thaivisa???

There have been many many reports of deaths and severe sicknesses - by tourists and others who have visited Thailand. With very few exceptions, subsequent investigations by Thai authorities have been abysmal, bordering on ludicrous.

[ginjag]

What the hellll is all this MSG business, everything nearly is centered on MSG. it is-it isn't -it is -it isn't. The two oldsters from Boston Lincs England, on holiday, died. reported enlarged hearts, heart attacks--BUL--#hit....same time. 555555555....then mentioned suicide...BUL#hit...... and all this super MSG discussion....EVERY one knows there's a rat somewhere...............the only thing that should have happened is that the said establishment be closed -mucha pronto- until the real truth be found. Can you imagine what the families are thinking that lost mam and dad.???? MSG ???---enlarged hearts, I think they and their friends will think that farrangs here have gone crazy in the head. spinning out this story.

in their seventies. fit enough to fly, and holiday here, airport trauma's--Ha. Don’t you think if they BOTH had enlarged hearts, their doctor in Lincs would have advised them not to go--and their families also, as for suicide---the suggestion is ridiculous. My friend is from the said town in England , and the mood there is not very Thai friendly. All the discussion is of course is because people are concerned But doing the Miss Marples is somewhat upsetting to some, All they want is pressure put on the CMai authorities to come up with the truth. ( I am aware posters mean well)

[jackr]

Sounds fishy and off-topic to non-believers and perhaps not a contributor in these cases, but brahmburgers is right, MSG has a lot to answer for. It screws me up for up to two days, as do foods with free glutamates in them, and took me years to pin it down. This garbage is also of course in foodstuffs all over the world (and the FDA totally playing down its harmful effects doesn't help), but the amount that is splashed over dishes here is nuts. Those farang that can't put their finger on why they're always lethargic, fatigued, bloated, tight chested, heady etc, particularly after dining on Thai foods with loads of sauces that are very tasty, should gen up on this stuff.

Could be nothing to do with the hotel - perhaps an eatery, stall nearby - but at the least they should be turned over and the law stop dragging its feet/sweeping it under the carpet so that the families can find some closure.

[Oberkommando]

Sounds fishy and off-topic to non-believers and perhaps not a contributor in these cases, but brahmburgers is right, MSG has a lot to answer for. It screws me up for up to two days, as do foods with free glutamates in them, and took me years to pin it down. This garbage is also of course in foodstuffs all over the world (and the FDA totally playing down its harmful effects doesn't help), but the amount that is splashed over dishes here is nuts. Those farang that can't put their finger on why they're always lethargic, fatigued, bloated, tight chested, heady etc, particularly after dining on Thai foods with loads of sauces that are very tasty, should gen up on this stuff.

Could be nothing to do with the hotel - perhaps an eatery, stall nearby - but at the least they should be turned over and the law stop dragging its feet/sweeping it under the carpet so that the families can find some closure.

Excellent post. +1

I can feel just moments after a meal the effects of msg.

[Thaddeus]

Sounds fishy and off-topic to non-believers and perhaps not a contributor in these cases, but brahmburgers is right, MSG has a lot to answer for. It screws me up for up to two days, as do foods with free glutamates in them, and took me years to pin it down. This garbage is also of course in foodstuffs all over the world (and the FDA totally playing down its harmful effects doesn't help), but the amount that is splashed over dishes here is nuts. Those farang that can't put their finger on why they're always lethargic, fatigued, bloated, tight chested, heady etc, particularly after dining on Thai foods with loads of sauces that are very tasty, should gen up on this stuff.

Could be nothing to do with the hotel - perhaps an eatery, stall nearby - but at the least they should be turned over and the law stop dragging its feet/sweeping it under the carpet so that the families can find some closure.

Excellent post. +1

I can feel just moments after a meal the effects of msg.

I'm very sorry for both of you, but, the percentage of people that are sensitive to MSG is very small, the percentage that are so sensitive that it would be fatal to is an even smaller number.

I wouldn't like to calculate the odds of four people with that amount of sensitivity to it all staying in the same hotel within a small time frame, it would be an unprecedented number. So a pointless discussion.

If there is a common theme as the cause of these deaths, it has to be something that would prove fatal to practically anyone, irrespective of age, state of health, or list of allergies.

[jayjay0]

Thai investigators are not going to test for MSG poisoning. In their view, it's a silly premise.

That would also include most scientists and medical doctors.

There is no such thing as "MSG" poisoning other than in perhaps a very few people who might be allergic to it -

MSG is not necessarily allergic. However, for some, perhaps a small %, it is toxic. For an even smaller %, with a large amount ingested, it can be fatal. If I owned a restaurant (which I do, btw) I wouldn't want to poison even a small % of my customers. MSG defenders seem to say, "the majority of us don't feel adverse affects, so we wish the small % of sufferers would just shut up" Or perhaps they think the people who get poisoned by MSG are faking it. Well I, for one, am not faking it when I can't sleep at night after eating something in a Thai/Chinese restaurant that's laced with MSG. I get headaches, aches over my body, weak and v. quick pulse, violent dreams, parched throat and generally irritable. I don't get any of that when I eat clean food that I prepare at my home - or that I eat in a non-MSG place. It's not allergic, it's a reaction to a toxic substance.

Wasn't there a case of unexplained deaths in some guesthouse on Samui (or Phuket) last year....I am not sure if they ever found out the reasons. I think they were young and healthy Scandinavians/Dutch tourists who just died in their rooms. It was also here on Thaivisa???

There have been many many reports of deaths and severe sicknesses - by tourists and others who have visited Thailand. With very few exceptions, subsequent investigations by Thai authorities have been abysmal, bordering on ludicrous.

Another ludicrous thing is to expect the number of westerners that come here year after year to not die of some disease. Chances are most of them never even look at the recommended inoculations for Thailand and a lot that look at them ignore them.

As for MSG it is not deadly. It does however affect many people in a negative way. For myself I pay it no mind but it could be a contributing factor to my high blood pressure.

[jayjay0]

What the hellll is all this MSG business, everything nearly is centered on MSG. it is-it isn't -it is -it isn't. The two oldsters from Boston Lincs England, on holiday, died. reported enlarged hearts, heart attacks--BUL--#hit....same time. 555555555....then mentioned suicide...BUL#hit...... and all this super MSG discussion....EVERY one knows there's a rat somewhere...............the only thing that should have happened is that the said establishment be closed -mucha pronto- until the real truth be found. Can you imagine what the families are thinking that lost mam and dad.???? MSG ???---enlarged hearts, I think they and their friends will think that farrangs here have gone crazy in the head. spinning out this story.

in their seventies. fit enough to fly, and holiday here, airport trauma's--Ha. Don't you think if they BOTH had enlarged hearts, their doctor in Lincs would have advised them not to go--and their families also, as for suicide---the suggestion is ridiculous. My friend is from the said town in England , and the mood there is not very Thai friendly. All the discussion is of course is because people are concerned But doing the Miss Marples is somewhat upsetting to some, All they want is pressure put on the CMai authorities to come up with the truth. ( I am aware posters mean well)

Funny I have a enlarged heart and my doctor is very concerned about it. She how ever does not tell me to not travel. She recommends certain pills and certain things for me to do like loose weight.

Maybe the truth is all ready out there I was told a Bangkok Post article covered it but Thai Visa is not going to allow it. They prefer to keep people in the dark.