Road Rage

[hellodolly]

LJW, I'd say you're right in that there are plenty of Farang who don't get how much they have to adapt and be cautious here. True.

But I don't see, hear, or read of Farang driving trucks off mountain cliffs, crashing vans into railings and surrounding traffic, crossing medians to overtake and causing massive carnage with head-on collisions, plowing into intersections with red lights late at night thinking nobody will be there, turning right from the left-hand lane, driving fast late-at-night without headlights on, talking on cell phones while merging into traffic, overtaking on blind curves and killing innocents, the OP's account of just exiting a side street and thinking flowing traffic will swerve, stop or accommodate you.... shall I continue ?

Farang do have their faults in assuming things should be like where they're from. And expecting things to run quickly or smoothly as if there was the same societal order. You've got a point to slow down. I try my best, but I like to go and sometimes it's so frustrating just seeing one greedy douche blocking 2-3 lanes of traffic and making 100 people miss a light. But I try to just breathe and let it be. And can't help but think I know better.

Yes you are right, we don't hear about expats driving like that here, maybe because expats are less than 1% of the drivers here and are not allowed to drive large commercial vehicles (unless they have work permits). But back in Europe it's different of course, farangs are regularly in major pileups, but we never hear of foreigners etc etc.

I whole hardheartedly agree with you. Also how do you know who is driving the vehicles making left turns from the right lane and right turns from the left lane. With the tinted windows hard to see.

I was wondering how they can block three lanes of traffic. Two easy THREE'''''''''''''''''? I think not but it does fit in with a negative statement.

[hedonist44]

Listen to me carefully, I am not blind, and, as I said, I have never seen a serious accident

Indeed hard to believe. I lived there 14 years a saw more than a dozen people killed, I reckon.

I wouldn't take anything this little fella "LJW" say's seriously. I'm not flaming the kid or taking the piss out of him, but I think he'd be well advised to go back to the hospital and get some new medication. It's very evident that the shit he's on now is not working!!!

[ikis]

27 years of driving in thailand and never seen a serious accident?

how is that possible. i've lived here only about 3 and half years and i've seen a lot of serious accidents.

maybe if you drive only inside your moobaan somewhere and never go out.

only about 1000-1500km per month of driving around the city and in the mountains and you probably see accident EVERY day.

[realthaideal]

Well....

Thakkar - you speak wisely, sir !

Dolly - intersection of Suthep and Canal road two weeks ago, I was stunned by the elegance of this one guy (you really think EVERYONE'S got tinted windows here?!)who was at the corner on the left to turn onto Canal headed south, who didn't go but instead started edging into me n my moto on the green light. Then he starts to go into the middle lane, but still he doesn't fully correct himself and aim straight. Next he piddles into the intersection and is blocking my demi-moto lane, the middle car lane, and now beginning to dig into the right-turners heading up onto Canal towards 700 Pi. I suppose the left-turners were finally moving, but I was blocked as were two other full lanes by one major hump-head. During the whole course of things he managed to mess up a little of everybody. He deserves a prize.

Changraider you're right. I usually try to stay on topic too, dangit ! Anyway, flying off at a street injustice is something Farang do too easily too often, and in a culture that discourages confrontation or causing loss of face, it's not a good idea. It's mean and obnoxious and is essentially fightin' words, ie you better be ready to throw down. When you feel slighted by someone's lack of care or whatever, in traffic - even life threatening bad driving -it's mainly best to just keepto yourself, keep aware and let it go. Difficult to do at times, but road rage is ugly in any country.

[AndersSN]

LJW, I'd say you're right in that there are plenty of Farang who don't get how much they have to adapt and be cautious here. True.

After 27 years of practice (sorry about saying 20), LJW has taken the whole concept of devils advocate into new realms.

"In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument"

Please pay attention to what I am saying because I am not playing a devils advocate game... I never say things that I do not believe. It has never been my style. But clearly there are many who disagree, but at the same time I have had a few pm's from people who agree with me but do not post here because they can not take the criticisms. For myself I post here because I think my opinion is as important as anyone else, and the disagreements, even the idiotic ones, rarely get me mad

He he

I've had more pm's about how right I am compared to you, so there.

What you don't believe me on the pm's? And you claim I haven't even posted in this thread before? Humbug!

What I say is true because I say it is true, and that goes for every post wether you (plural) like it or not.

Anyway there's a party in the bar tomorrow with great discounts so I guess I'll have another glass of wine to warm up to my bike ride this night, should get me in the mood for some road rage.

Enjoy

[uptheos]

Thailand needs more cycle lanes like UK!

http://www.dailymail...ikers-spin.html

Edited August 24, 2011 by uptheos

[Dante99]

It is amazing how people can go on about the driving habits here. What is it that caused any of you to think that they would be any better than they are?

[changraider]

Thailand needs more cycle lanes like UK!

http://www.dailymail...ikers-spin.html

Tie me kangeroo down sport, it's a boomerang track!

[kalbo123]

It is amazing how people can go on about the driving habits here. What is it that caused any of you to think that they would be any better than they are?

I am from Europe I had a good driving training for a least half a year, and had to a driving test in real city traffic, not just a circuit without any traffic.

They learned me how to anticipate and see dangerous situations ahead, a advantage over most Thai who have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

[Dante99]

It is amazing how people can go on about the driving habits here. What is it that caused any of you to think that they would be any better than they are?

most Thai who have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

respect is mutual

[uptheos]

most Thai who have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

respect is mutual

I understand what you are saying about mutual respect, but the truth of the matter is that there is a massive % of Thai's, who really do have absolutely no idea what they are doing on the road!

I know one sitting not five metres from me.

[changraider]

As this thread has already gone way off topic, I thought in the interests of balance it would only be fair to suggest why farangs in Thailand are such bad drivers....

• 1% of us are international fugitives from justice so we’re always looking over our shoulder (ooops sorry that’s the Pattaya forum)
• 99.99 % of us cannot read Thai so we have no idea what that hazard sign on the highway is telling us (kapow)
• 60 % of us come from countries that drive on the other side of the road, so our reflexes are the wrong way round when we’re under pressure (hey I’m a farang I’m never under pressure)
• 100% of us (minus the missionaries) have our eyes glued to the rear-end of the honey on the motorbike, rather that truck in front that we’ve just rear-ended (the word ‘honey’ may be replaced with any other word that pleases your orientation)
• 90% of us are men, so we’ve just got too much testosterone flying around (c’mon guys that might have been true half a century ago)
• a goodly portion of us are easyrider wannabes with no idea how to control a motorbike (I’m hoping to join that group as soon as my girlfriend has trained me)
• 10% of us are women, say no more ‘nuff said (I beg your pardon, it has been scientifically proven that women are better at multi-tasking, so ladies are perfectly safe behind the wheel if they are on their mobiles and doing their makeup at the same time)
• a high percentage of us are hung-over (though rumour has it that the denizens of Huay Keaw are actually well-hung over)
• a big chunk are tourists with no idea of road layouts, traffic regulations, customs, directions (easy target)
• Some of us are swaggering hot-headed young things that love to speed excessively (check out some of the boasts on other forums, along the lines of – “yeah man I averaged 160 from here to Bangkok”, “wow cool dude”)
• 0% of us are familiar with the Thai Highway Code (that’s because it hasn’t been printed)

[nicksal37]

Well said Changraider,I am sure that many people on this forum will agree with you.

[hedonist44]

Well said Changraider,I am sure that many people on this forum will agree with you.

I'm not one of them:)

[dingdongrb]

People like this are just very primitive without consideration for others - stupid, selfish and never learned how to behave.

Hmmmmmm... we have those types in the USA as well...

[dingdongrb]

And check out the riders ... the guys (and a few gals - often passengers) walking around town all bandaged up, arms in slings, etc. You can tell them by signs of 'road rash'. OK, a few are from mtn. biking - but the majority (ask them, I sometimes do - just for yucks) are from bike crashes.

Yeah I agree, these stupid farang's on holiday probably stop at red lights, stop signs etc and get rear ended. Plus they stupidly assume anyone coming from a minor road into a main one will stop or the guy in the right hand lane isn't turning left without signalling.

I'm sure there's many other things the stupid farang's think and do that makes them worse drivers.

For the record, I'm a farang.... Yes, the Thais drive crazy and yes so do the farangs.... Not all Thais drive crazy and not all farangs drive crazy but I have seen some crazy chit from farangs over the past 5 yrs living here in CM..... I've seen farangs driving a scooter with their Thai wives and Lek Krung children (yes 3 on a scooter) and all without helmets or eye protection. I've seen farangs talking on cellphones while driving. I've even had farangs pulling out of the side streets without stopping. Are there more crazy farangs driving scooters than Thais, of course not the population ratio does not justify this...but farangs (not all, mind you) drive just as bad a Thais...... Actually the only car/car accident I've been involved in was a farang that side-swiped my rental car and then when I walked up to his vehicle to question why he did that it, he denied it......but the obvious freshly made mocked up racing stripe my mirror placed down the side of his vehicle said otherwise....

[Thakkar]

As this thread has already gone way off topic, I thought in the interests of balance it would only be fair to suggest why farangs in Thailand are such bad drivers....

• 100% of us (minus the missionaries) have our eyes glued to the rear-end of the honey on the motorbike, rather that truck in front that we’ve just rear-ended (the word ‘honey’ may be replaced with any other word that pleases your orientation)

This explains the many foreigners driving with only one hand on the steering wheel.

T

[uptheos]

As this thread has already gone way off topic, I thought in the interests of balance it would only be fair to suggest why farangs in Thailand are such bad drivers....

• 100% of us (minus the missionaries) have our eyes glued to the rear-end of the honey on the motorbike, rather that truck in front that we've just rear-ended (the word 'honey' may be replaced with any other word that pleases your orientation)

This explains the many foreigners driving with only one hand on the steering wheel.

T

I can't see anything that suggests the foreigner would drive with one hand on the wheel............................oh, yes wait a minute, got it - quite subtle.

[Flatouthruthefog]

Well said Changraider,I am sure that many people on this forum will agree with you.

Agree with ALL except the bit about the Thai Highway Code.

It does exist!

It is amazingly close to the UK version.

It SPECIFIES that vehicles making a right turn have the very last priority!

That vehicles already on a roundabout (traffic circle for you yanks) have right of way!!!

My wife is the only Thai ever to have bought a copy and read it.

She is working on a translation for the benefit (or amusement) of us all.

More on this when she has finished.

Say, October.

2014.....................!

[rikki]

Changraider-" Isn't it obvious from #3 that it was Rikki the farang who initiated the road rage, not the "fat, middle-aged well to do Thai" ? "

Not at all. I was just riding along, the Thai tried to push me off against the kerb 3 or 4 times, followed me, pushed me into the kerb and stopped me moving,then screamed he was going to kill me and my family etc.

I just listened until he drove off

So how can you say I was responsible for roadrage??

I wasn't at all threatening,

[Dellboy218]

And check out the riders ... the guys (and a few gals - often passengers) walking around town all bandaged up, arms in slings, etc. You can tell them by signs of 'road rash'. OK, a few are from mtn. biking - but the majority (ask them, I sometimes do - just for yucks) are from bike crashes.

Yeah I agree, these stupid farang's on holiday probably stop at red lights, stop signs etc and get rear ended. Plus they stupidly assume anyone coming from a minor road into a main one will stop or the guy in the right hand lane isn't turning left without signalling.

I'm sure there's many other things the stupid farang's think and do that makes them worse drivers.

For the record, I'm a farang.... Yes, the Thais drive crazy and yes so do the farangs.... Not all Thais drive crazy and not all farangs drive crazy but I have seen some crazy chit from farangs over the past 5 yrs living here in CM..... I've seen farangs driving a scooter with their Thai wives and Lek Krung children (yes 3 on a scooter) and all without helmets or eye protection. I've seen farangs talking on cellphones while driving. I've even had farangs pulling out of the side streets without stopping. Are there more crazy farangs driving scooters than Thais, of course not the population ratio does not justify this...but farangs (not all, mind you) drive just as bad a Thais...... Actually the only car/car accident I've been involved in was a farang that side-swiped my rental car and then when I walked up to his vehicle to question why he did that it, he denied it......but the obvious freshly made mocked up racing stripe my mirror placed down the side of his vehicle said otherwise....

Dont know if you would agree Dingdong but I reckon there are some foreigners/tourists/whatever trying to copy young Thais on their scooters. i.e. no helmet, squeeze through the almost imposssibly small gap, if one is on a bike then one must thread their way through all the cars to be on pole position at the lights. Had my car hit once by one idiot doing that on a rented Phantom. Out on my bike yesterday and nearly got rearended by another rental off Thapae. It maybe difficult at times but basically, if you wouldnt do it in your home country then dont do it here!

[Thakkar]

Let me get this straight:

He pulled out of a sidestreet right in front of me, so I drove up beside him-very close

I wanted him to be aware that someone was objecting to his driving without consideration for the lives of other road users

So he started it, but you then escalated.

Then, he saw your escalation and raised it:

Just had some fat middle aged well to do thai in a newish grey pickup try to push me off the road on my scooter several times.

He followed me then sandwiched me against the kerb, . The window came down and he hurled abuse at me.

You then backed off and came to this forum to complain:

car number 9504

Is there thread to post incidents such as this?

Can I find his name, address etc? Would like to name and shame him

Should I talk to the police, will they take it seriously? Or the tourist police?

In other words, you made a mountain out of a mole hill, then turned it back into a molehill. And the rest of us keyboard warriors/apologists/jokers/self-appointed experts/Jedi Masters have been clambering all over this molehill into its fifth page. Good times.

T

[qdinthailand]

Let me get this straight:

...

In other words, you made a mountain out of a mole hill, then turned it back into a molehill. And the rest of us keyboard warriors/apologists/jokers/self-appointed experts/Jedi Masters have been clambering all over this molehill into its fifth page. Good times.

T

How else could we fill our pathetically boring days here in LOS?

[qdinthailand]

LJW, I'd say you're right in that there are plenty of Farang who don't get how much they have to adapt and be cautious here. True.

But I don't see, hear, or read of Farang driving trucks off mountain cliffs, crashing vans into railings and surrounding traffic, crossing medians to overtake and causing massive carnage with head-on collisions, plowing into intersections with red lights late at night thinking nobody will be there, turning right from the left-hand lane, driving fast late-at-night without headlights on, talking on cell phones while merging into traffic, overtaking on blind curves and killing innocents, the OP's account of just exiting a side street and thinking flowing traffic will swerve, stop or accommodate you.... shall I continue ?

Farang do have their faults in assuming things should be like where they're from. And expecting things to run quickly or smoothly as if there was the same societal order. You've got a point to slow down. I try my best, but I like to go and sometimes it's so frustrating just seeing one greedy douche blocking 2-3 lanes of traffic and making 100 people miss a light. But I try to just breathe and let it be. And can't help but think I know better.

Jeez, you should read a week's worth of 'crash stories' from the U.S. - you'll find these, and many more examples of excellent driving in a few short days of reading the news.

Oh, wait! Few stories about overtaking on blind curves and killing innocents - American's "keep to their lanes" and generally "don't cross the double yellow lines". But, they sure do crash their cars into innocents standing on the curb, in farmers markets, driving through the sides of buildings in strip malls .... shall I go on?

Edited August 27, 2011 by qdinthailand

[keo]

Out on my bike yesterday and nearly got rearended by another rental off Thapae. It maybe difficult at times but basically, if you wouldnt do it in your home country then dont do it here!

Yeah, Thailand probably isn't the best choice of places to take up motorbike/scooter riding!

I remember seeing a farang female really struggling to pull out of one of the motorbike rental places near Thapae on a beastly motocross bike. Her feet could barely touch the ground. It was rush hour. Dear oh dear! Possibly she left her common sense in her home country.

[realthaideal]

Jeez, you should read a week's worth of 'crash stories' from the U.S. - you'll find these, and many more examples of excellent driving in a few short days of reading the news.

Oh, wait! Few stories about overtaking on blind curves and killing innocents - American's "keep to their lanes" and generally "don't cross the double yellow lines". But, they sure do crash their cars into innocents standing on the curb, in farmers markets, driving through the sides of buildings in strip malls .... shall I go on?

QD, you are citing stories where a mentally ill man plowed into a crowd in a farmers' market. And same with driving up on curbs to take out crowds. And then there are seniors driving past their brains' years' limits who mistake accelerators for brakes when trying to start up in parking lots. Do you not feel yourself reaching here ?! If you're arguing that the drivers here are the same as the higher occurrence is due to being mentally ill, and no longer having brain functionality intact, I find your criticism of Thai drivers a bit harsh, but can see some grain of truth to it. Thank you for supporting my argument.

Global annual highway fatality statistics will further support what's been said. It's just facts.

The Thai people are great. But there is a lack of driver training here with one coherent, universally accepted theory of how traffic's supposed to go except for me-first. Someday maybe otherwise.

[changraider]

At times this thread seems to be in danger of becoming an intelligent and informative discussion :-) i'm a defensive driver and there's nothing i've experienced yet here that has made me modify the way i drive to protect myself from other drivers. However in order to protect other drivers from me i'm finding that i have to use my side mirrors a lot more, especially in low speed traffic, because there are so many motorbikes; this is a good learning experience for me. At the moment i'm doing about 3,000 k a month in highway, town, village and city conditions. Chiang Mai city itself is too much hassle for parking a 2ton truck, so i usually take songtaos. Outside of the city there is some of the best driving anyone could wish for imho, and believe it or not i've experienced a high level of courtesy from Thai drivers, and the farangs seem pretty decent too.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a forum to discuss specific points of the Thai highway code, which do confuse me; the driving forum only seems to be interested in makes and models and fuel consumption.

[rikki]

I was wondering how this thread would turn out, but also wanted to state my case.

I didn't back off, was not aggressive. and didnt get shot down (yet)

I dont understand why people think its OK to behave like that, just because it's not their home country.

Maybe they dont care for anyone

[Thakkar]

I was wondering how this thread would turn out, but also wanted to state my case.

I didn't back off, was not aggressive. and didnt get shot down (yet)

I dont understand why people think its OK to behave like that, just because it's not their home country.

Maybe they dont care for anyone

You seem to have missed the point. I would think that everyone here exhibited some care for you. No one defended the pick-up driver's behaviour of turning out of a soi without pausing. That was dangerous for on-coming cyclists like yourself. Equally dangerous was your unwise pursuing of the incident in the way that you did, because it could have got you just as easily killed. Most of the good advice has been to let it go and just be extra careful out there.

You should be gratified by the level of sympathy you've received.

T

[realthaideal]

Yeah Rikki. Like Takkar's saying, you best hear and learn it now, here on the forum than on the streets: What you did was an act of aggression and had the potential to threaten or cause loss of face to someone else. And when you do that here, you can get in big trouble or suffer some physical harm.

Did he wrong you first ? Perhaps. But that kind of wrong is repeated a million times a day here. It doesn't matter. You have to let it go.

You trying to make it right by showing him he's wrong, can get you killed.

I much better prefer alive-and-(acting)wrong to (acting)right-and-dead. The Thai highway provides us with many chances for this everyday.

And furthermore, as other members have attested, the bigger vehicle always wins. We are not all equals out there, sadly.

This is for your life, dude. The sooner you accept it, the better. Be safe !

Edited August 27, 2011 by realthaideal