Unpaid Hospital Bills

[golfspielen]

A recent accident has left me with some pending hospital bills in the ~130k area. I have an agreement with the hospital to pay half in a week and the other half the following week. I would like to make good on this bill, but there is no way I will be able make the payments outlined in the agreement. I made the agreement, because I just wanted to get out of the hospital which was perhaps a bad idea, but I'm not really sure what my alternatives were at the time.

I'm wondering what kind of consequences there are for failing to meet payment deadlines with a private hospital in BKK. Am I at risk of being deported or having futures stays denied? If the only thing at stake is some unfavorable interest rates on my outstanding balance I think I'll just suck it up and deal with the interest. If there are more severe consequences I may need to try and contact some people for a loan. Even though the amount is only $4k or so I really do not want to have to beg anybody for a loan. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Edited December 9, 2011 by golfspielen

[Soutpeel]

You could end up in jail if they decide to take it that far and I am suprised a private hosptial let you walk out the door with part of the bill outstanding.

Your starting point would be to talk to the hospital, explain the situation and see if you can come up with an alternative plan to pay

I would stongly suggest you get the cash together and pay them soonest

[anon345535]

do they have your passport? if not... time to leave

[stoneyboy]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

[golfspielen]

They have a photo copy of my passport. I'm not really looking to just bail on the bill either. I'm more looking to know what happens if 3 months pass before I pay it off in full. If jail time or other serious consequences are in store I'll find the money. If nasty interest rates are all I'm looking at I'll just pay the bill when I can manage it myself.

Edited December 9, 2011 by golfspielen

[stoneyboy]

1323425965[/url]' post='4901206']

They have a photo copy of my passport. I'm not really looking to just bail on the bill either. I'm more looking to know what happens if 3 months pass before I pay it off in full. If jail time or other serious consequences are in store I'll find the money. If nasty interest rates are all I'm looking at I'll just pay the bill when I can manage it myself.

What would the consequences be in your home country,and would you do the same thing there,that's what I would be asking myself,although as I stated in the UK it's free so I would have just flown home,why would one consider having private health care in a foreign country and not having the means to pay,it's nonsense.

[dave111223]

I'd suggest scraping together some cash (say 10K or 20K) then sit down by yourself and plan our a payment schedule that you could realistically meet.

Then go to the hospital and talk with the billing department, pay the 10-20K that you brought with you, as a show of good faith, and tell them the plan schedule that you are able to meet.

Note that if the plan schedule that you can come up with is something like "paid off in a year or so" then you may as well not bother and skip the country instead. But if you plan to stretch the payments out over 3 or 4 months i think they'd be amenable.

And make sure you get out ahead of this; don't wait until you've already missed the first payment.

Edited December 9, 2011 by dave111223

[OZEMADE]

The Hospital made an agreement with you in good faith which you agreed to abide by. You agreed to pay the full amount in 2 weeks. They have a copy of your passport. If you don't abide by the agreement, they will inform the Police and Immigration and you will be tossed in the slammer until the outstanding debt and all other Police, Immigration, Court and Solicitor costs are paid. Which will probably be double by then. Then you will be deported. So what do you think would be the best thing to do. Not a hard question to answer.

[Mario2008]

An outstanding debt is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

[stoneyboy]

1323429256[/url]' post='4901332']

An outstanding debt is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

Does that apply to overstay fines also then.

[MJCM]

I'd suggest scraping together some cash (say 10K or 20K) then sit down by yourself and plan our a payment schedule that you could realistically meet.

Then go to the hospital and talk with the billing department, pay the 10-20K that you brought with you, as a show of good faith, and tell them the plan schedule that you are able to meet.

Note that if the plan schedule that you can come up with is something like "paid off in a year or so" then you may as well not bother and skip the country instead. But if you plan to stretch the payments out over 3 or 4 months i think they'd be amenable.

And make sure you get out ahead of this; don't wait until you've already missed the first payment.

+1, sound advice !!

Question: Don't you have any Health Insurance from your own Country that will cover this ?

[MJCM]

An outstanding debt is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

Does that apply to overstay fines also then.

If you don't pay overstay fines, your only option is to leave the country illegally (No Exit Stamp in your passport).

And that will hunt you if you decide to ever come back.

[richard_smith237]

Do the honorable thing and do your best to pay up. Be honest with them, tell them you'll continue to make the efforts to pay but you are unable to make the deadline next week. I suspect they'll be able to arrange a new payment schedule (I doubt they will charge interest, but I may be mistaken).

You will definitely want this hospital on your side should you require further treatment in the future. In the case of an emergency you really do not want them dealing with your financial status before your treatment.

With this last statement in mind you may also be damaging the fluidity of treatment for future westerners at this hospital. So, do your best and be thankful they treated you before requesting payment.

[theblether]

I'd suggest scraping together some cash (say 10K or 20K) then sit down by yourself and plan our a payment schedule that you could realistically meet.

Then go to the hospital and talk with the billing department, pay the 10-20K that you brought with you, as a show of good faith, and tell them the plan schedule that you are able to meet.

Note that if the plan schedule that you can come up with is something like "paid off in a year or so" then you may as well not bother and skip the country instead. But if you plan to stretch the payments out over 3 or 4 months i think they'd be amenable.

And make sure you get out ahead of this; don't wait until you've already missed the first payment.

+1, sound advice !!

Question: Don't you have any Health Insurance from your own Country that will cover this ?

+2

With the additional question being...............are you in Thailand without health insurance? If so all sympathy has just gone, gone, gone....................................

[smokie36]

I'd suggest scraping together some cash (say 10K or 20K) then sit down by yourself and plan our a payment schedule that you could realistically meet.

Then go to the hospital and talk with the billing department, pay the 10-20K that you brought with you, as a show of good faith, and tell them the plan schedule that you are able to meet.

Note that if the plan schedule that you can come up with is something like "paid off in a year or so" then you may as well not bother and skip the country instead. But if you plan to stretch the payments out over 3 or 4 months i think they'd be amenable.

And make sure you get out ahead of this; don't wait until you've already missed the first payment.

+1, sound advice !!

Question: Don't you have any Health Insurance from your own Country that will cover this ?

+2

With the additional question being...............are you in Thailand without health insurance? If so all sympathy has just gone, gone, gone....................................

+3

Pay off your bill as soon as you can and take a look in the mirror I would suggest. You need to get some insurance or leave the country if you can't afford it. Simple as that.

[Beetlejuice]

An outstanding debt is a civil matter, not a criminal one.

True and the OP may well be able to take the next flight home and leave the hospital high and dry.

Problem is that the actions perpetrated by these thoughtless morons make it bad for the rest of us peasants that have to stay here.

Perhaps increased medical costs for farangs or insistence on money paid upfront and so on.

I have heard that this practice of not paying or unable to pay medical fees by farangs is on the increase and the time may come when hospitals will ask for proof prior to treatment that the farang is able to pay his bills.

The actions of these selfish people have a knock on affect for all of us.

[roamer]

Worth following up Scorecard's modus operandi from an earlier topic,

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/397096-bangkok-hospital-discharged-severely-ill-patients-after-uae-government-refuses-to-pay-the-bills/page__st__75

"....On the other hand (as already shared by another poster in regard to Khon Kaen hospital) there are many government hospitals where you can get excellent care, board certified doctors, at very very reasonable cost.

Today our hospital of choice is the government hospital at Sri Racha and we drive down from Bangkok unless it's something more urgent. Sri Racha is a new generation hospital in the government hospital system. Excellent care, board certified doctors, very thorough, all speak excellent English, all are good listeners and engage in good discussions, state of the art equipment, and all have a very pleasant bed-side manner, and go out of their way to make patients feel at ease.

The big plus for me is that speak to all patients, poor or rich, Thai or farang, with respect. Unlike older style Thai hospitals and doctors clinics the Thai patients at Sri Racha are carefully enouraged to talk to the doctors, to speak up.

And their bills are a tiny fraction of the so called 5 star hospitals.

This post has been edited by scorecard: 2010-09-15 08:15:47....."

[endure]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

Simply not true.

[smokie36]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

Simply not true.

Interestingly I know someone who did just that earlier in the year and I'm considering informing the relevant people when they return in the near future to the UK.

Should I or shouldn't I?

Decisions...decisions....

[SimonD]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

Simply not true.

NHS treatment is free for everyone at the point of use. There is no charge to British nationals or UK residents depending on the on the nature of the illness or injury. Foreign nationals (of whom the OP seems to be one, quoting in dollars as he does) would normally be expected to pay. New guidlines have been introduced this year (1st August) to cut down on abuses by non-UK citizens. It is highly unlikely the OP would be entitled to free treatment especially as the illness/accident (we don't know what it is even) happened in another country.

http://www.dh.gov.uk...itors/index.htm

Edited December 9, 2011 by SimonD

[smokie36]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

Simply not true.

NHS treatment is free for everyone at the point of use. There is no charge to British nationals or UK residents depending on the on the nature of the illness or injury. Foreign nationals (of whom the OP seems to be one, quoting in dollars as he does) would normally be expected to pay. New guidlines have been introduced this year to cut down on abuses by non-UK citizens. It is highly unlikely the OP would be entitled to free treatment especially as the illness/accident (we don't know what it is even) happened in another country.

http://www.dh.gov.uk...itors/index.htm

UK citizens who have been non-resident for over three months are NOT entitled to free treatment. It seems in England this is 182 days. Anything over this and you are expected to pay for other than emergency treatment.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/health_index_ew/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm

[endure]

The OP should have purchased a return ticket to the UK,where any Tom,dick and Harry is entitled to treatment and then flew back,would have been much cheaper.

Simply not true.

NHS treatment is free for everyone at the point of use. There is no charge to British nationals or UK residents depending on the on the nature of the illness or injury. Foreign nationals (of whom the OP seems to be one, quoting in dollars as he does) would normally be expected to pay. New guidlines have been introduced this year (1st August) to cut down on abuses by non-UK citizens. It is highly unlikely the OP would be entitled to free treatment especially as the illness/accident (we don't know what it is even) happened in another country.

http://www.dh.gov.uk...itors/index.htm

So you're agreeing with me then?

[theblether]

What's happened to the OP????

Are you insured or not?????

[smokie36]

What's happened to the OP????

Are you insured or not?????

There's no internet in prison unfortunately!

[SimonD]

@ smokie36,

No need to shout. My point is the decision of whether or not to charge for treatment is, ultimately, at NHS discretion and depends on a number of factors. You will notice the word 'guidelines' means just that.

I returned from over two years in Thailand at the end of last year and have received free NHS treatment both from my GP and at A&E. However I did (and still do) maintain property in the UK. I had to re-register at my GP but that was all. They asses all treatments on a case-by-case basis.

@ endure,

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. I used your reply to stonyboy to illustrate that NHS procedures have been tightened-up since 1st August. Frankly I don't give a dam_n about anyone daft enough to travel abroad without proper medical insurance. It's just asking for trouble.

Edited December 9, 2011 by SimonD

[smokie36]

@ smokie36,

No need to shout. My point is the decision of whether or not to charge for treatment is, ultimately, at NHS discretion and depends on a number of factors. You will notice the word 'guidelines' means just that.

I returned from over two years in Thailand at the end of last year and have received free NHS treatment both from my GP and at A&E. However I did (and still do) maintain property in the UK. I had to re-register at my GP but that was all. They asses all treatments on a case-by-case basis.

Apologies if you felt I was shouting at you personally. Can you confirm you made your GP aware you had been non-resident for two years before you were treated? Was your care all done via A+E and your GP or through referrals?

[bifftastic]

Apparently, when returning to the UK from living abroad (for more than three months) all you need to do to 're-start' your entitlement to free NHS treatment is to declare that you are now permanently resident in the UK again.

That is, of course, if you were entitled to it in the first place

Edited December 9, 2011 by bifftastic

[SimonD]

@ smokie36,

No need to shout. My point is the decision of whether or not to charge for treatment is, ultimately, at NHS discretion and depends on a number of factors. You will notice the word 'guidelines' means just that.

I returned from over two years in Thailand at the end of last year and have received free NHS treatment both from my GP and at A&E. However I did (and still do) maintain property in the UK. I had to re-register at my GP but that was all. They asses all treatments on a case-by-case basis.

Apologies if you felt I was shouting at you personally. Can you confirm you made your GP aware you had been non-resident for two years before you were treated? Was your care all done via A+E and your GP or through referrals?

I will respond to your request as it might help British nationals abroad who may be uncertain about current NHS practice. You must remember that I can only try to explain what has happend to me personally. Other may be treated differently. You will also understand that I am not going to divulge any personal history or go into medical details on an open forum. For the general record this is what happened in my experience:

I returned to the UK in October 2010 after a continuous absence of over two years in Thailand and SE Asia. As I have an existing medical condition I decided that, although well, I wanted to have a check-up and restart my medication which had run out in Thailand a long time before. I went along to my previous general practice although my doctor had moved on and I was allocated another one. I was asked what had happened to me as I had not replied to any letters sent to my home address in the past two years and I had been 'taken off books'. I explained fully and honestly where I had been and offered to produce my passport for examination. It was not required. Registration at the surgery took about 30 minutes, mainly because they had to find my old notes. Once they had them I was re-instated in the system like I'd never been away.

Since then I have had a full medical check at the surgery (over several visits), two free flu jabs to which I am entitled due to my medical condition, and two surgery visits for unrelated minor illness matters. I have made one visit to a local A&E in the last fortnight and had to sign a form which asked about my nationality and how long I had been in the UK. I cannot remember all the questions but answered them truthfully. I had never seen this form before and understand it is part of the crackdown on foreign abusers of NHS treatment. I was intrigued by this and tried to ask the staff about it but they were tight-lipped. From what I can see the issue of British or non-British nationality is an issue with regards to NHS treatment, whatever other documentation may say. The form also appeared hastily contrived and produced.

For the record, I made a full and truthfull disclosure about my absence abroad and have not been charged for any treatment since returning to the UK. At no time has my two year absence from the UK been an issue with any government department I have dealt with on my return.

Satisfied now?

Edit: Bifftastic quote:

"That is, of course, if you were entitled to it in the first place"

Exactly!

Edited December 9, 2011 by SimonD

[endure]

Since then I have had a full medical check at the surgery (over several visits), two free flu jabs to which I am entitled due to my medical condition, and two surgery visits for unrelated minor illness matters.

The reason you were given a full medical was that as a newly registered patient (that's what the 'system' considers you to be) the surgery gets paid for it. They do for every newly registered patient.

[bifftastic]

This link http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074386

goes some way to explain the policy, I think.

If you have lived abroad for more than 3 months, or spend more than 3 months every year abroad, then you lose your entitlement to free NHS treatment.

When you come back to live permanently in the UK, irrespective of how long you've been away, then you are regarded as 'ordinarily resident' in the UK and as such are entitled to free NHS care.

If you were, say, living permanently in Thailand, needed treatment, came back to the UK only for the treatment and intended to return to Thailand once you had been treated, and you told them that, you'd have to pay for it.

Your entitlement to free NHS care stops after you have been gone for three months. It starts again as soon as you return to live in the UK.