hermespan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 The National Police of Singapore site states that it isn't interested in currency controls, only monitoring drug money (hmm, is that the only illegal source of funds - how about Wall Street scams?) Anyway, as a hard-money crank willing to compromise with currency, and unwilling to pay the fees for ATMs and lousy FXS rates, I would like to know what actually happens at the border when one declares over the no-need-to-declare limit of aprox USD20,800. Perhaps it is like here, when I withdrew the cash, as long as I gave some notice, it was business - no personal questions, no weird looks. Naturally, I am travelling with my proof of funds from both institutions and even the withdrawal slips. For me, this is big money. But maybe businessmen doing business in say Myanmar and Vietnam do it 100 X this amount and multiple times, so 30 or 40K is a big yawn to the guys in uniform. My concerns are mainly loss of time ('Sign here please' or five minutes of questions?) and my reluctance to get into an economic/political discussion with representatives of any nation-state. I have a thin skin on matters of financial privacy and financial freedoms so don't want to be drawn into conversations as to 'why'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 So... you want to travel with huge amounts of cash... not put in in bank accounts but in private safes (according to your other topic...)... you will declare it, can prove where it comes from... but you think it is not the f** business of the boarder control / financial authoristies of Singapore what you will do with it? I guess the authorities might see this slightly different... Good luck for you... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My concerns are mainly loss of time ('Sign here please' or five minutes of questions?) loss of time does not apply. you can download the forms (both taking cash to and from Singapore), fill them before travelling, hand over the form to customs when entering or to immigration when leaving SIN and that's it. i have done it (last time sep 2008 and feb 2009) and wasn't asked any question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARLIN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just take Euros The big ones . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just take Euros The big ones bad and dangerous advice which could cause a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARLIN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Just take Euros The big ones bad and dangerous advice which could cause a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money. My mistake . Edited March 21, 2012 by CARLIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermespan Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Naam wrote: "I have done it (last time sep 2008 and feb 2009) and wasn't asked any question" Is the amount relevant? 30K versus 100K? I would not be taking more than 60K ever, I think. Testing waters with 20-30K. I suppose they can enforce technical over limits like one cent over the legal limit correct? I presume it inclues gold, palladium, platnum, silver etc (but perhaps pot jewelery worn on person? Maybe bullion jewelery such as hung coins is exempt from exemption). Is Hong Kong similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewlyMintedThai Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'd be equally worried about getting it out of Thailand. You do know that Customs has the right to take it off you if undeclared, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki1611 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 @Hermespan. I live in Singapore. Singapore's Police is called Singapore Police Force not National Police of Singapore. I am pointing out in case you got into a wrong website. http://www.spf.gov.sg/cbni/ Quote from the Singapore Police Force website: "Obligations of a Traveller If you carry more than SGD 30,000 or its equivalent in CBNI into or out of Singapore, you are required to make a report on the Physical Currency and Bearer Negotiable Instruments Report (Traveller) form or NP727 form. You may also be asked by an Immigration Officer or other authorised officers to fill in the form if you have not done so." "Penalty Failure to give a full and accurate report is an offence under the Corruption, Drug Trafficking and Other Serious Crimes (Confiscation of Benefits) Act (Chapter 65A) (CDSA). The punishment is a fine not exceeding SGD 50,000, or an imprisonment term not exceeding 3 years, or both. The CBNI may also be seized if a person fails to give the report." Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermespan Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 'Nikki1611' wrote: "I live in Singapore. Singapore's Police is called Singapore Police Force not National Police of Singapore. I am pointing out in case you got into a wrong website. http://www.spf.gov.sg/cbni/" Yes, that's the one. Thank you for reminding me of the correct name and posting the url. I have no intention of not declaring funds. On other words, of course I will declare funds. I do so as a matter of survival against a much more powerful entity ('the state' in anarchist/libertarian/anarcho-capitalist terms). I do so not out of any philosphical/political acceptance of state policies, but for practical reasons of a gun to my head (or rather a hand in my pocket - same same but different, as the hand in the pocket can lead to imprisonment). Why? I presume that all nation-states co-operate to increase their power, and perhaps for legitimate law enforcment (true crimes of fraud, theft, and coercion) and thus share their intelligence, i.e. when one leaves a nation-state that state reports one's financial business to the one where one is headed. Does anyone know whether this is in fact correct - or is it the policies of the money police in some states 'what you do once beyond our borders is not our affair'? Switzerland used to be this way. And yes, I have heard the Nazi argument before, but let us consider the Jewish merchants too. I tremble every time I hear of a bank, government or corporation controlling trade by monoplies, force or even monitoring (such as Singapore Police Force is doing). Multi-national corporations for all their abuses of power, at least they don't have armies (come to think of it that is not precisely so - maybe Chomsky is correct). For me this is not a practical financial matter but one of political, almost religious, principle. In fact, my life would be simpler if I just accepted the 'authority' of the sate and enthusiastically worked within its limitations, allying myself with the priests of the semi-capitalist world - lawyers and accountants. I resent the state, in its many forms, placing any controls on consensual relationships including commerce. I notice this difference of perspective a lot with Chinese businessmen, and pehaps all businessmen. Most don't seem to be interested in political change or challenging the authority of the state, but simply agreeing and in private getting on with whatever they can get way with discreetly. It is probably a more efficient way of building wealth. To not declare funds puts one at risk of confiscation (in this case theft by the state). It is just a more genteel version of troops seizing property. I wonder if there is any sovereign state on the planet anymore where there is a true open market in all goods (including printed pieces of paper and metals) or whether the state has its hands in commerce everywhere? Maybe it always has to some extent. Maybe if Ron Paul is elected in USA that will change in this direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermespan Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 The printable brochure at the link mentioned above is informative and will save time at border. But it does leave a few grey areas, such as definition of terms, and how much is discretionary. Is a rare stamp worth six million dollars a 'negotiable instrument? How about a coin whose precious/rare earth metal is worth $1000 but its circulating value is only $50 according to what has been stamped on it by a recognized state or even an unrecognized state? Recognized by who? How about if a nation-state *claims* that its currency is worth X, but in the real market people will pay only X - 1000%? Is a bag of wheat a 'negotiable instrument'? In a famine in Somalia, I'd say so. EVERYTHING, every product, service, skill and even idea is a negotiable instrument in some place and some time. The issue of the Singapore Police Force seems to be (perhaps like all similar organizations) not what something is worth as is it 'bearer'? Everything of value must have a label of ownership. Free flow of wealth is somehow dangerous. They don't want wealth transferred anonymously. This is cause for concern for the freedom-minded man, at least for this one. I think the drug money issue is a smoke screen for more nefarious political/financial control. And it is certainly not limited to Singapore. I would be happy to hear form any communists, fascists, politically correct liberals, etc who might disagree with my assessment. Perhaps I have some facts wrong. I am open to dialogue. For me the big three questions are... 1. Are such state rules ethically acceptable? 2. Are they effective for the claimed purpose? 3. What strategies work to circumvent them? And especially... 4. Is the cure worse than the disease? In other words in a truly market economy do gangsters and the ultra-rich take over and thus the restrictions of the state are a necessary evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naam Posted March 22, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Perhaps I have some facts wrong no you don't. you are just bored. why not go to the beach, count sand grains per m² surface, depth 6.5cm and report the interesting number here? Edited March 22, 2012 by Naam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necronx99 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Perhaps I have some facts wrong no you don't. you are just bored. why not go to the beach, count sand grains per m² surface, depth 6.5cm and report the interesting number here? 520,000,000 now he can go be silly somewhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Uups... now these latest posts from hermespan explain a lot... he's a "free man"... load's of those psychotic people out there... always afraid the "state" (their enemy) is watching them... taking their freedom from the day the were born... No use to have any discussion with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javabear Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 No worry about Ron Paul being elected in the US. It will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 No worry about Ron Paul being elected in the US. It will never happen. Ya never know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEENTHEREDONETHAT Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 No worry about Ron Paul being elected in the US. It will never happen. Ya never know good one Flying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermespan Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 'Swiss1960' wrote: "Uups... now these latest posts from hermespan explain a lot... he's a "free man"... load's of those psychotic people out there..." I take umbrage at that. I am schizophrenic and so am I. "always afraid the "state" (their enemy) is watching them... taking their freedom from the day the were born..." Not that late, it started with the origin of the state being theft and conquest - way before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitbe Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just take Euros The big ones bad and dangerous advice which could cause a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money. Just take Euros The big ones bad and dangerous advice which could cause a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money. and theirs plenty of that here on TV from people who have not a clue particularly regarding tax issues in UK and USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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