Ollie Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 "Asia Hand" and others by Christopher Moore - very entertaining read, well written, suspenseful and with plenty of BKK and Thailand insiders <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Christopher Moore's books are many things but they are definitely not well written.I sat next to him a few years ago at an Oxford and Cambridge dinner in Bangkok where he seemed very out of place.He didn't seem to know anyone and anyway nobody would have been interested in his deriviative and tedious bargirl/detective tripe.He's one of those writers like Stephen Leather that is much admired by the ignorant.He's good looking though I must admit! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, despite all the bitchiness and back-biting seen on this thread (why?), as someone planning a move to LOS, I for one have gained some very useful information and look forward to researching further many of the titles suggested. The very fact that at something like an Oxford and Cambridge dinner, which incidentally, sounds dreadful, where an author seemed "very out of place" and "not knowing anyone" will have no bearing on whether I choose to read his books, or not (oops, have I just been bitchy?)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) The very fact that at something like an Oxford and Cambridge dinner, which incidentally, sounds dreadful, where an author seemed "very out of place" and "not knowing anyone" will have no bearing on whether I choose to read his books, or not (oops, have I just been bitchy?)! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Not interested in pretentious, pseudo-intellectual book snobbery when choosing a read. Just looking for something insightful, informative and enjoyable. Edited January 2, 2006 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somkid Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 After having followed TV for quite a while, I have finally arrived at the moment of my first post! A few years ago, I read Four Reigns (Si Phaen Din) by Kukrit Pramoj, and found it quite good. Admittedly, I read the English translation, and I have no clue as to whether this is a good translation of the original text. Cheers, Somkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I really enjoyed "Letters from Thailand" about Chinese immigrants coming to Thailand, however, I heard that the Oxford and Cambridge dinner folks sneered at Bhotan too, so not really sure that I should be recommending her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 "Asia Hand" and others by Christopher Moore - very entertaining read, well written, suspenseful and with plenty of BKK and Thailand insiders <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Christopher Moore's books are many things but they are definitely not well written.I sat next to him a few years ago at an Oxford and Cambridge dinner in Bangkok where he seemed very out of place.He didn't seem to know anyone and anyway nobody would have been interested in his deriviative and tedious bargirl/detective tripe.He's one of those writers like Stephen Leather that is much admired by the ignorant.He's good looking though I must admit! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, despite all the bitchiness and back-biting seen on this thread (why?), as someone planning a move to LOS, I for one have gained some very useful information and look forward to researching further many of the titles suggested. The very fact that at something like an Oxford and Cambridge dinner, which incidentally, sounds dreadful, where an author seemed "very out of place" and "not knowing anyone" will have no bearing on whether I choose to read his books, or not (oops, have I just been bitchy?)! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree my little anecdote has no bearing on what one might want to read.And you are quite right -the dinner was a dreadful occasion.However the deriviative and painfully laboured prose of the comically named "Hemingway of Thailand"may well put you off.I don't think this thread is bitchy but you might well have picked up on a certain irritation at certain hacks being wildly over praised.There will of course always be those who enjoy trash and label anything else as "pseudo intellectual".Best advice is to read for yourself and make up your own mind.There are some excellent recommendations in this thread, eg "Siam Mapped". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Would you label The Revolutionary King, Touch the Dragon and Letters from Thailand as "trash", oh, all-knowing wise one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_clumsy Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 .Best advice is to read for yourself and make up your own mind.There are some excellent recommendations in this thread, eg "Siam Mapped". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well put. "Siam Mapped" is an excellent read. But, I must admit that I have always been enormously entertained by Chris Moore's books. A book doesn't have to be well-written to be entertaining any more than a friend has to be well-spoken to be a good companion. Remember that the role of a critic is not to pass judgement but to help you choose what you will enjoy. Your job is to find the critic with whom you agree, not to bend your tastes to fit the critics you encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simbo Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Jake Needham's KILLING PLATO and LAUNDRY MAN. Unfortunately both books are hard to find in Thailand since so far they've only been published in hardback size. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have seen both "The Big Mango" and "Killing Plato" in paperback in a number of places. Both excellent reads. Never heard of the "Laundryman" is that new? Cheers TP <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What about, 'Money number one' by Neil Hutchinson. True and accurate? Ok Ok, I'm going. Wheres me hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Jake Needham's KILLING PLATO and LAUNDRY MAN. Unfortunately both books are hard to find in Thailand since so far they've only been published in hardback size. I have seen both "The Big Mango" and "Killing Plato" in paperback in a number of places. Both excellent reads. Never heard of the "Laundryman" is that new? Cheers TP What about, 'Money number one' by Neil Hutchinson. True and accurate? Ok Ok, I'm going. Wheres me hat. I met Neil the day after it was published, he was flogging it around....on his second trip to Thailand....a collection of ancedotes garnered from various barflies and others.....a good laugh but not to be taken serious considering the sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) Probably because it is the best book of its type that has been published so far and everyone that I've met who has lived in Thailand for a good number of years and has been involved in the bar scene agrees, including reviewers like Stickman who recommends it highly.Stephen Leather is a professional writer with a number of international bestsellers to his credit and has spent a lot of time in Thailand and the bars. I would guess that he knows a lot more about Thailand, writing and the bar scene than you do. However, I'm sure that he would be absolutely crushed if learned of your opinion , but, if his writing is "poor", it will come as a surprise to the book critics who have given him a lot of good reviews and to his many fans as well. By the way, whether you like it, or not, stereotypes often are true. That is the reason that they become stereotypes. So it comes with Stickmans recommendation....gee willikers I must rush out and buy it now...... I never knew that Stickman was an accredited Book Reviewer as well as a PI, Ex teacher, Net Journalist etc... He maybe a professional writer but I wouldnt say he has a number of international "bestsellers", at best he has sold enough books to make a living out of it. He didnt sound too crushed when he replied to my comments here previously, that is if the guy here was really him. His comment was along the lines of "up yours". He takes criticism so well But I didnt say he was a bad writer.....I said that this particular book is crap....it is based on stereotypes, Now just a word on stereotypes.....they are not often true, in fact stereotypes are rarely true. you know the big bald guy with tatts is not always a thug who is going to beat you up. And the little weasly guy with glasses just may be a serial killer. The fact that the book is written from a stereotypical viewpoint just damages the reality of the bar scene and possibly Thailand, maybe thats why no publisher in Thailand would look at it for a long time and most people read it off the net. He may have spent time in Thailand but that doesnt make him anymore expert than anyone else here...in fact a lot of guys here have put in more time than he has. BTW...What is the credentials of the HK guy who wrote a review based on a few visits to Thailand. Edited January 2, 2006 by gburns57au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptuan Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 And how exactly is this related to whether the man can write a coherent sentence, let alone an entire novel? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dealt with that in the following paragraph which you conveniently chose to ignore. You are actually underscoring the very point I was making. If it weren't for a few patronizing, I'm-More-Culturally-Aware-Than-Thou academic snobs (such as yourself?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ouch! Do I detect a little inferiority complex raising its ugly head? Nevertheless, I would expect someone of your ilk would resort to the illogical defense of "poisoning the well" rather than continuing to coherently discuss the point. His heart may bleed, but he's a lousy writer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I also discussed his level of English and writing, which point you also chose to ignore or omit. You missed the point a second time in a row. I believe you'd flat-out flunk my "introduction to debate" course after the first exam. Please don't apply. And by the way, I've known him for almost ten years. Satisfied? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope. #1) I don't believe you, and #2) If it's true, it just demonstrates your poor judgment of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptuan Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 A few of my favorites that come to mind include..." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, what a great list, Johpa! Thanks for the effort to list these along with a little synopsis of each. I've just lengthened my books-to-get list considerably! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chonabot Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 (edited) I enjoy Leather's books including the 2 or 3 set in and around Thailand. I also have read all of Chris Moore's books , not brilliant on the whole but quirky and with more than enough attention to detail. The Smile trilogy is good fun. For the record only about 2 out of 17 of his books are connected to the Bar Scene. My fave book , not yet mentioned is "A Woman of Bangkok" written by Jack Reynolds. Written in the 50's ,it is a fascinating window into the scenes of a time so different yet not that dissimilar to Los today. Also worth a read is "Jasmine Nights" by SP Somtow - life as an adolescent Thai Boy ( funnier than Adrian Mole ) Edited January 2, 2006 by chonabot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 It might sound odd, and certainly no one else has mentioned it but Thai food by David Thompson. Sure its a cookbook by one of the great experts on Thai food but incredibly informative on so much of Thai history and culture, fascinating to learn of the history that lies behind so much of what we eat, or in some cases, dare not eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katana Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 A Woman of Bangkok by Jack Reynolds (1956) - worth a quick look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrincon17 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 "Long Haired Dictionary" created by Mr Isaan Farmer. Is a constant companion and endless source of knowledge <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi My Name Long you Like Me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibebop Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Thailand: A Short History by David K. Wyatt Siam In Mind by David K. Wyatt The Astistic Heritage of Thailand: A Collection of Essays Sawaddi Magazine A Siamese Tragedy: Development & Disintengration in Modern Thailand by Walden Bello, Shea Cummingham, Li Kheng Poh The Connection Phuket Penang and Adelaide by Ian Morson Do these next two count? Phra Farang: An English Monk in Thailand by Phra Peter Pannapadipo The Story of Mahajanaka by His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorFart Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Just to set the record straight here. No one sneered at Botan herself but at Susan Fulop Kepner's iffy translation. May I add Marcel Barang's the 20 best novels of Thailand which is a brilliant introduction to Thai Literature. The translation of Four reigns by Tulchandra is quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 A Woman of Bangkok by Jack Reynolds (1956) - worth a quick look. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, although overlong, it's worth more than a quick look.It's a vastly superior account of infatuation than Stephen Leather's trashy hackwork.Specifically Reynolds genuinely understands Thai dynamics in a way that Leather seems unable to comprehend.Having said that there is always a market for airport novellas and I am sure Stephen Leather is a perfectly acceptable quick read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) But I didnt say he was a bad writer.....I said that this particular book is crap....it is based on stereotypes.... The fact that the book is written from a stereotypical viewpoint just damages the reality of the bar scene and possibly Thailand, maybe thats why no publisher in Thailand would look at it for a long time and most people read it off the net. Firstly, Private Dancer wasn't turned down by local publishers. They would have jumped at the chance to publish a well-known, international author no matter what the book was about. Leather tried to get the international company that publishes his action/adventure novels to publish it, but they felt that it would confuse his fans because it is so different from his normal style. They are the ones who turned it down, and Leather put it on the internet rather than put it out with a local company. You have every right to your opinion about this book - however off-base it seems to me - but insulting the intelligence of those that disagree with you, is naturally going to cause some bad feelings. I, and everyone else that I've ever met who knows about the nightlfe scene here, feel that it is quite accurate in its portrayal of much of Thailand's farang-oriented sex industry. I know a lot of people who are habitual readers - on all different subjects - and people who barely ever read, and most of them couldn't put it down, once they had started reading it. To me, that is a book worth reading. There are a lot of hookers-with-a-heart-of-gold out there, and I have met a lot of them, however, I have lived here a long time, speak Thai fairly well - and most importantly - don't fall in love with them. If I did, I think that Leather's portrayal of them would seem even more spot on. For the record, I am not a fan of Stephen Leather's action books or Christpher Moore's novels. They are just not my cup of tea, however, they are not something that I am interested in or entertained by. I don't feel that anyone who likes them, is a blithering idiot. In fact, it is obvious that many of their fans are very intelligent from the great posts that they have written here. Edited January 3, 2006 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAsiaHand Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 And how exactly is this related to whether the man can write a coherent sentence, let alone an entire novel? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dealt with that in the following paragraph which you conveniently chose to ignore. You are actually underscoring the very point I was making. If it weren't for a few patronizing, I'm-More-Culturally-Aware-Than-Thou academic snobs (such as yourself?) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ouch! Do I detect a little inferiority complex raising its ugly head? Nevertheless, I would expect someone of your ilk would resort to the illogical defense of "poisoning the well" rather than continuing to coherently discuss the point. His heart may bleed, but he's a lousy writer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I also discussed his level of English and writing, which point you also chose to ignore or omit. You missed the point a second time in a row. I believe you'd flat-out flunk my "introduction to debate" course after the first exam. Please don't apply. And by the way, I've known him for almost ten years. Satisfied? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope. #1) I don't believe you, and #2) If it's true, it just demonstrates your poor judgment of character. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What a jerk you are. I disagree with a point of view you expressed and your response is this kind of bitchy garbage? "I don't believe you"??? Gee, I'm just crushed. Go suck an egg. (That ought to get the discourse down to a level worthy of you of a ass like you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 A Woman of Bangkok by Jack Reynolds (1956) - worth a quick look. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, although overlong, it's worth more than a quick look.It's a vastly superior account of infatuation than Stephen Leather's trashy hackwork.Specifically Reynolds genuinely understands Thai dynamics in a way that Leather seems unable to comprehend.Having said that there is always a market for airport novellas and I am sure Stephen Leather is a perfectly acceptable quick read. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A decent book, but almost 50 years old. Many readers want to read about the modern bar scene and Leather knows it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAsiaHand Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Jake Needham's KILLING PLATO and LAUNDRY MAN. Unfortunately both books are hard to find in Thailand since so far they've only been published in hardback size. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have seen both "The Big Mango" and "Killing Plato" in paperback in a number of places. Both excellent reads. Never heard of the "Laundryman" is that new? Cheers TP <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LAUNDRY MAN was published before KILLING PLATO. Needham's books have been difficult to find in Thailand ever since he switched from Asia Books to an international publisher. According to Stickman, the reason is that Asia Books has refused to distribute any of Needham's books published after THE BIG MANGO, the first version of which they originally published themselves. Still, Needham's books are well known and get a lot of attention outside of Thailand. They seem to be readily avilable in places like Singapore and Hong Kong, and occasionally some of the Bangkok book dealers import them directly. It's a shame more people in Thailand don't know Needham's books. They make for an intelligent change from the bargirl cliches with which Thailand-set books are generally associated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) One problem with Needham's newer titles is that they are in paperback, but it is a special trade edition that is the size of a hardback book. Most people want something more convenient to cart around. Edited January 3, 2006 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Not exactly about Thailand, but about Thai language, 'The Fundamentals of the Thai Language' (Fifth Edition) by Stuart Campbell and Chuan Shaweevongs. I bought the copy I have in 1991 and it has been out of print for a few years now. I still think it is one of the best books to learn Thai with. If you need a book to study with, and you see it somewhere, grab it, because you might not ever see it again. It is a hard bound book with a black cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Not exactly about Thailand, but about Thai language, 'The Fundamentals of the Thai Language' (Fifth Edition) by Stuart Campbell and Chuan Shaweevongs. I bought the copy I have in 1991 and it has been out of print for a few years now. I still think it is one of the best books to learn Thai with. If you need a book to study with, and you see it somewhere, grab it, because you might not ever see it again. It is a hard bound book with a black cover. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 'The Fundamentals of the Thai Language' is extremely hard to find now-a-days, but was certainly the favorite for many years. The Thai For Beginners/Intermediate/etc. series by Banjawan Poomsan Becker, published by Paiboon Publishing, are considered the best around these days and are quite inexpensive. Her Thai and Laos dictionaries are considered quite good as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptuan Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 (edited) I disagree with a point of view you expressed and your response is this kind of bitchy garbage? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You went beyond disagreeing with my point of view about his writing quality, and proceeded to assasinate the author's character ("self-promoting", "idiot", faking nomination, etc.). Following that, you then continued on by attacking my motives and character. I can take it, but you kill the discussion in your misguided efforts. Unable to separate the point of discussion from personality issues. Over the top. Illogical. Sad. Edited January 3, 2006 by toptuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodHeart Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I disagree with a point of view you expressed and your response is this kind of bitchy garbage? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You went beyond disagreeing with my point of view about his writing quality, and proceeded to assasinate the author's character ("self-promoting", "idiot", faking nomination, etc.). Following that, you then continued on by attacking my motives and character. I can take it, but you kill the discussion in your misguided efforts. Unable to separate the point of discussion from personality issues. Over the top. Illogical. Sad. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well said. And we still don't know which books OldAsiaHand read [if any]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orchis Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Siamese Sketches Charles Buls White Lotus (out of print.) Originally : Croquis Siamois, 1900. 106 years old but very nice read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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