Business Deal Going Bad?

[coconutking]

Hi. My wife and I bought a small business last May, and signed a 1 year contract with the landlord. Business was good for us, and in April we signed a 4 year contract with the landlord, it’s a solid contract.

We got a call from the landlord this afternoon and he would like to meet with my wife (it’s all in her name, and she runs it). We’re pretty sure he wants out of the contract, because a chain store wants in our spot. At this time, I am hoping any negotiating will be with the potential chain store, as we would sell out for the key money we paid for the contract and profits for the next 4 years. I do not want to negotiate with the landlord, he is a police officer. My wife has asked me to come along, so she can ask my opinion on things as the meeting goes along.

I want to help her. But, I do not need any trouble.

Am I being paranoid?

Your thoughts. We meet tonight.

[ripstanley]

I would find some way to electronically record your conversation with your landlord. Be vary wary of Police who own land when there is a bigger Baht to be made. Good luck.

[theblether]

Not paranoid, just concerned..........I would be inclined not to go along to the meeting tonight as your wife can use you as an excuse to not make any decisions or agree to anything. If your both there then you are on the spot.

You can't blame the policeman for wanting to cash in on an investment, so I would go in with a conciliatory attitude and listen to what he has to say. Not all negotiations need to be at daggers drawn, and you know if you go down that road you will lose.

So!!......send your wife, congratulate the landlord on this good opportunity, listen to what he has to say, get your wife to tell him that you want to help him close the deal, you will help him, tell him you will help him because you know he is a good man and he will help you and be fair with you.

Face, dear Sir, Face.......and a little bit of reverse psychology too.

edited for clarity.

Edited May 26, 2012 by theblether

[topt]

Not paranoid, just concerned..........I would be inclined not to go along to the meeting tonight as your wife can use you as an excuse to not make any decisions or agree to anything. If your both there then you are on the spot.

You can't blame the policeman for wanting to cash in on an investment, so I would go in with a conciliatory attitude and listen to what he has to say. Not all negotiations need to be at daggers drawn, and you know if you go down that road you will lose.

So!!......send your wife, congratulate the landlord on this good opportunity, listen to what he has to say, get your wife to tell him that you want to help him close the deal, you will help him, tell him you will help him because you know he is a good man and he will help you and be fair with you.

Face, dear Sir, Face.......and a little bit of reverse psychology too.

edited for clarity.

Good advice - as long as the OP's wife can stand her ground and not be forced into any concessions at the first meeting?

[theblether]

Not paranoid, just concerned..........I would be inclined not to go along to the meeting tonight as your wife can use you as an excuse to not make any decisions or agree to anything. If your both there then you are on the spot.

You can't blame the policeman for wanting to cash in on an investment, so I would go in with a conciliatory attitude and listen to what he has to say. Not all negotiations need to be at daggers drawn, and you know if you go down that road you will lose.

So!!......send your wife, congratulate the landlord on this good opportunity, listen to what he has to say, get your wife to tell him that you want to help him close the deal, you will help him, tell him you will help him because you know he is a good man and he will help you and be fair with you.

Face, dear Sir, Face.......and a little bit of reverse psychology too.

edited for clarity.

Good advice - as long as the OP's wife can stand her ground and not be forced into any concessions at the first meeting?

True......and the wife should take along someone of standing with her if possible, for a bit of moral support and to knock the landlord back on his heels.

edit......

It's human nature to fear the worst..........I run my own company and my career has been built on sales and negotiation, I do it every day.

The one thing I cannot do during a negotiation is overturn the authority, whatever or whoever that may be. It can be ( usually is ) a person.......or job stability, or the offer for a new house being accepted.

It is easy and highly complex at the same time, most wives would never dream of completing a business deal without consulting the husband, so tonight the OP should stay away, and his wife should stick by her guns if she feels pressurised.

You need to understand too that this is important to the policeman / landlord..........he is going into the meeting with pressures and expectations on him too. The wife should assure the landlord that she is delighted about his opportunity and that she will help in anyway she can as he is a good man, and a fair man. She knows that he will help her with any move etc etc.

It's called " Give a Dog a name and it will live with it forever ".............this landlord needs to walk out tonight beaming with pride at being a good man and knowing that he will get help to complete the deal.

Do that......then you've got him.

I could tell you a story about a " negotiation " I was involved in, in Thailand where I used exactly that technique but you wouldn't believe me so I won't bother.

Edited May 26, 2012 by theblether

[YipYipYa123]

I would guess You havent a hope of getting to negeotiate with the franchise yourself ,

the landlord is probably going to buy you out of the deal so e can have that previledge

so ,then the property will be his again and he can reap from the benefits of his location

If this was in USA or Uk i would say hang on for dear life until you get a nice multiple of your investment back but

if you tried that in thailand with a policeman of all landlords youd be gambling with your life and maybe even liberty

or visa status

a bag of drugs found on said property could put you inside for life ,you have not much option but to smile and accept the arrangement

with a little upwards bargaining on your side

if you refuse to sign it back to him ,and he loses a few million thb deal because of that ,you can guess he will not be impressed ......

if you can afford to rent a similar building in the area and move there ,i would take that deal

[coconutking]

I truly appreciate everyone’s input. I think I will have the wife go with her manager, have them listen to him, and tell him they would like until tomorrow for a final decision. That will give us time to plan a response if we feel we need to negotiate for a better deal. And, if further negotiating were needed, we will present it as a friendly request.

Thanks for the good info, I really appreciate it. My mind is a little more at ease.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes, I'd agree that it's very unlikely a landlord would allow a tenant to share in the profits of his property's value going up, especially if he's part of the biggest criminal mafia organisation in this part of the world.

I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I doubt if the fact that you have "the law" on your side would make any practical difference in this situation, but maybe start out with the assumption that he's an honest and upright fellow, just don't expect too much.

[theblether]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5IW9wK_HNg

[coconutking]

Yes, I'd agree that it's very unlikely a landlord would allow a tenant to share in the profits of his property's value going up, especially if he's part of the biggest criminal mafia organisation in this part of the world.

I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I doubt if the fact that you have "the law" on your side would make any practical difference in this situation, but maybe start out with the assumption that he's an honest and upright fellow, just don't expect too much.

Thanks for that. Once again some very good advice being posted. The wife is heading out in a few minutes, and as I said, she will listen, and request tomorrow if necessary. But that’s it. Request with a smile, and move on if the answer is no. I think that is safe.

[theblether]

Yes, I'd agree that it's very unlikely a landlord would allow a tenant to share in the profits of his property's value going up, especially if he's part of the biggest criminal mafia organisation in this part of the world.

I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I doubt if the fact that you have "the law" on your side would make any practical difference in this situation, but maybe start out with the assumption that he's an honest and upright fellow, just don't expect too much.

Thanks for that. Once again some very good advice being posted. The wife is heading out in a few minutes, and as I said, she will listen, and request tomorrow if necessary. But that’s it. Request with a smile, and move on if the answer is no. I think that is safe.

As the clip says......just a spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.......keep it sweet, not every negotaition needs to be bitter, in fact far from it. No need for this......

[coconutking]

Yes, I'd agree that it's very unlikely a landlord would allow a tenant to share in the profits of his property's value going up, especially if he's part of the biggest criminal mafia organisation in this part of the world.

I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I doubt if the fact that you have "the law" on your side would make any practical difference in this situation, but maybe start out with the assumption that he's an honest and upright fellow, just don't expect too much.

Thanks for that. Once again some very good advice being posted. The wife is heading out in a few minutes, and as I said, she will listen, and request tomorrow if necessary. But that’s it. Request with a smile, and move on if the answer is no. I think that is safe.

As the clip says......just a spoonfull of sugar helps the medicine go down.......keep it sweet, not every negotaition needs to be bitter, in fact far from it. No need for this......

That made me smile.....thanks

[farang000999]

Do chains pay exceptionally well?

[StoneSoup]

If the meeting is just talking, the OP's wife should mainly just listen. What is said is verbal talk, but carries no specific obligation. If the landlord uses the meeting to pass on a formal written notice, you now have a document to work consider.

If it is a talking meeting, the wife should listen - but not verbally agree to any change in lease terms. She should use the meeting to gather as much information as possible. At the conclusion, she should state that she has listened to what she has been told, and will now go consider her position, in consultation with her husband, and she will await delivery of any written commercial offer seeking to change the lease terms.

Use the meeting to gather information about what is going on, and about what the landlord is thinking. Do not use it to agree to anything, or to make any decision based on just spoken words. But - also - do not use it to antagonize the landlord.

Good luck!

SS

[coconutking]

If the meeting is just talking, the OP's wife should mainly just listen. What is said is verbal talk, but carries no specific obligation. If the landlord uses the meeting to pass on a formal written notice, you now have a document to work consider.

If it is a talking meeting, the wife should listen - but not verbally agree to any change in lease terms. She should use the meeting to gather as much information as possible. At the conclusion, she should state that she has listened to what she has been told, and will now go consider her position, in consultation with her husband, and she will await delivery of any written commercial offer seeking to change the lease terms.

Use the meeting to gather information about what is going on, and about what the landlord is thinking. Do not use it to agree to anything, or to make any decision based on just spoken words. But - also - do not use it to antagonize the landlord.

Good luck!

SS

Thanks SS. I am going now to pick up the wife. She has met with the landlord. I will report later tonight or perhaps in the morning with what happened.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts

[GuestHouse]

I'd say, wait to hear what the landlord has to say.

Pre-judging the issue on the basis of your fears will only limit your ability to respond rationally.

[SteveLynch]

Great advise above from theblether ,

My father was in sales all his life and seemed to always get the highest price ,on whT ever deal he was doing ,using politeness and class is the way forward ,let the other guy always think he is winning

Starting an argument is a sure fire way of getting his hackles up and then he might resort to anyway to get out of that contract with you

@ the blether ,tell the story anyway ,I am naive and believe most things I'm told

[coconutking]

Thank you for your response. My wife met with the landlord, who has offered us the key money back and an extra 100,000 Baht. At this point, we do not have the ability of negotiating with the chain store, which was a dream anyway. We contacted the previous owner, who is a good friend, and a relative who is also a police officer, and asked their opinion of the deal. Everyone said the same thing. “Tell this guy you want your profit money for the extent of the contract, plus key money.” That would be about 3.1 million Baht. He is currently offering 400,000 Baht. You can now see a bit of a pinch with us. The police officer that is a relative assured us there would be no problems with me, as I am not into anything even remotely illegal, and my name is not on anything.

Your thoughts please.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Edited May 26, 2012 by coconutking

[theblether]

Thank you for your response. My wife met with the landlord, who has offered us the key money back and an extra 100,000 Baht. At this point, we do not have the ability of negotiating with the chain store, which was a dream anyway. We contacted the previous owner, who is a good friend, and a relative who is also a police officer, and asked their opinion of the deal. Everyone said the same thing. “Tell this guy you want your profit money for the extent of the contract, plus key money.” That would be about 3.1 million Baht. He is currently offering 400,000 Baht. You can now see a bit of a pinch with us. The police officer that is a relative assured us there would be no problems with me, as I am not into anything even remotely illegal, and my name is not on anything.

Your thoughts please.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

I mentioned earlier that it would be an idea to have a person of standing with your wife this evening, would your police relative be prepared to get involved?

When your faced with a big dog, get a bigger dog.

Edited May 26, 2012 by theblether

[SteveLynch]

I think you should hire a lawyer ,there is a massive difference in what he has offered and what you require to walk away

I don't know enough regarding Thai law on business or contract disputes .

Did you wife give the impression it's his opening bid or he was final with the key money and the 100k

If it was me and my name wasn't on anything I would probably keep away from the next meeting too ,you seem to be quite anxious that the landlord will target you in some other way ,

Send the wife back to explain his offer isn't enough ,and he will need to up the cash ,I think in most transactions like this there needs to be give and take ,the gap between the two is rather large right now

Steve

[BigJohnnyBKK]

>> I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I think the above approach is a lot fairer and easier for him to grant than some pie-in-the-sky AFAHIC estimate of future profits. He very likely has good contacts and some leverage to get you into a place that might even be better maybe even cheaper for your business than the one you're in now, and your goal would be to minimize the costs/lost profits incurred by the change.

I doubt if you'll get out with all your hard costs covered much less inconvenience and a short-term dip in profits, but again I think this would be the best deal you'd be able to get, and it's got a solid basis in reality rather than figures that someone just be making up.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I think you should hire a lawyer ,there is a massive difference in what he has offered and what you require to walk away

I don't know enough regarding Thai law on business or contract disputes .

Two things to know. "The law" rarely has more than a tangential impact on reality here, "realpolitik" rules especially when the two parties aren't equally powerful.

And finding a trustworthy competent lawyer that delivers good value for money here is a much more difficult project than you would think, needs to be started long before the need arises.

[coconutking]

I think you should hire a lawyer ,there is a massive difference in what he has offered and what you require to walk away

I don't know enough regarding Thai law on business or contract disputes .

Did you wife give the impression it's his opening bid or he was final with the key money and the 100k

If it was me and my name wasn't on anything I would probably keep away from the next meeting too ,you seem to be quite anxious that the landlord will target you in some other way ,

Send the wife back to explain his offer isn't enough ,and he will need to up the cash ,I think in most transactions like this there needs to be give and take ,the gap between the two is rather large right now

Steve

I was not given the impression his offer was final.

I'm an anxious person. Being anxious kept me alive through some really, really bad stuff.

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

[theblether]

I think you should hire a lawyer ,there is a massive difference in what he has offered and what you require to walk away

I don't know enough regarding Thai law on business or contract disputes .

Did you wife give the impression it's his opening bid or he was final with the key money and the 100k

If it was me and my name wasn't on anything I would probably keep away from the next meeting too ,you seem to be quite anxious that the landlord will target you in some other way ,

Send the wife back to explain his offer isn't enough ,and he will need to up the cash ,I think in most transactions like this there needs to be give and take ,the gap between the two is rather large right now

Steve

I was not given the impression his offer was final.

I'm an anxious person. Being anxious kept me alive through some really, really bad stuff.

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

Let your Thai relatives have a talk among themselves.......you may find a solution coming from an unexpected source.

Chill !!!

[coconutking]

>> I'd say best case scenario you could expect would be to ask him to take responsibility for identifying an equivalent or better property for your business to rent, and if the rent there is a bit higher, to contribute toward a portion of the difference (shooting for all of the difference as an initial offer), and also contributing toward relocation costs and a little advertising to reach your old customers.

I think the above approach is a lot fairer and easier for him to grant than some pie-in-the-sky AFAHIC estimate of future profits. He very likely has good contacts and some leverage to get you into a place that might even be better maybe even cheaper for your business than the one you're in now, and your goal would be to minimize the costs/lost profits incurred by the change.

I doubt if you'll get out with all your hard costs covered much less inconvenience and a short-term dip in profits, but again I think this would be the best deal you'd be able to get, and it's got a solid basis in reality rather than figures that someone just be making up.

Yes, the figures are indeed our figures, and as you stated, he may view it as "someone just making them up".

Thank you for your suggestions.

[SteveLynch]

True johnney ,very true indeed ,but I wouldn't enter in to any talks with my land lord or furthermore my landlord whonis a copper ,with out knowing what abprecedent on cases on this would be ,seems the OP is getting advice based on what some peoplenthink is fair ,ie the future profits ,a pretty hard figure to determine as you said your self

I do like the relocating idea and hoping the landlord can help you ,but if that doesn't work I'd rather have some knowledge given by a lawyer or at lest an expert in these issues ,there are good lawyers out there ,if the OP

Needs please PM me I have my lawyer here (not practicing)but works as a consult for a firm in Bkk

[SteveLynch]

Excuse my typing ,my hand is busted and I'm going Leftie on a iPad

[coconutking]

I think you should hire a lawyer ,there is a massive difference in what he has offered and what you require to walk away

I don't know enough regarding Thai law on business or contract disputes .

Did you wife give the impression it's his opening bid or he was final with the key money and the 100k

If it was me and my name wasn't on anything I would probably keep away from the next meeting too ,you seem to be quite anxious that the landlord will target you in some other way ,

Send the wife back to explain his offer isn't enough ,and he will need to up the cash ,I think in most transactions like this there needs to be give and take ,the gap between the two is rather large right now

Steve

I was not given the impression his offer was final.

I'm an anxious person. Being anxious kept me alive through some really, really bad stuff.

I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

Let your Thai relatives have a talk among themselves.......you may find a solution coming from an unexpected source.

Chill !!!

Chill. I think you may be right. The wife is with the friends and relatives now. I think I will go about family business. Get the kids bathed and in bed, and look at it in the morning.

I'll post with the outcome.

[coconutking]

True johnney ,very true indeed ,but I wouldn't enter in to any talks with my land lord or furthermore my landlord whonis a copper ,with out knowing what abprecedent on cases on this would be ,seems the OP is getting advice based on what some peoplenthink is fair ,ie the future profits ,a pretty hard figure to determine as you said your self

I do like the relocating idea and hoping the landlord can help you ,but if that doesn't work I'd rather have some knowledge given by a lawyer or at lest an expert in these issues ,there are good lawyers out there ,if the OP

Needs please PM me I have my lawyer here (not practicing)but works as a consult for a firm in Bkk

Thanks for the offer Steve, much appreciated. I will certainly contact you should the need arrive.

[SteveLynch]

Best of luck with this ,sometimes these unexpected things come with a silver lining

Take care