Red Shirts To Rally Outside Parliament: Bangkok

[webfact]

Red shirts to rally outside parliament

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts have changed their plan to stage an overnight rally in protest against the judges of the Constitution Court and will instead gather today in front of Parliament.

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

The stage activities and the rally will go on until midnight today. Meanwhile, the group has set itself the goal to gather at least 20,000 signatures, to seek impeachment of the Constitution Court judges.

Red-shirt guards occupied the area around Parliament yesterday in preparation for the protests.

Red-shirt leader Korkaew Pikulthong, a Pheu Thai MP, said about 100 of the party's MPs have signed a petition for the impeachment of the Constitution Court judges. Nonthaburi MP Apiwan Wiriyachai, also a red-shirt leader, was the first to sign.

Senators will be asked to join the petition drive, Korkaew said.

He said the red shirts are scheduled to submit the petition to Parliament President Somsak Kiartsuranon at 1pm today.

They were originally scheduled to continue the overnight rally until tomorrow.

Yesterday afternoon, the red-shirt guards erected tents for protesters to spend the night in. They also set up stalls for vendors.

National Police chief General Priewpan Damapong inspected the area and checked the security plan.

Police have prepared barricades and set up concrete barriers at intersections near Parliament, including Karn Ruean, Pichai and Rajvithi-Rama V.

The Constitution Court last Friday decided to consider petitions about the constitutionality of the charter amendment, which was originally scheduled to be deliberated in Parliament for a third and final reading this past Tuesday.

The Constitution Court also sent a letter telling Parliament to halt the deliberations until it finished considering whether there were grounds for the complaints.

Somsak has called a special House-Senate joint session tomorrow to consider the laws related to international agreements. Article 190 of the Constitution requires parliamentary approval on certain issues before the government makes deals with foreign countries. He said the charter amendment was not on the agenda.

Somsak had to cancel the House meeting last Friday due to protests by the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), which followed the House decision to move up the vote on the reconciliation bill proposed by the Pheu Thai and coalition parties.

Yesterday, a dozen red-shirt supporters led by Chatcharin Kularb-um staged satirical skits in front of the Constitution Court office. Calling themselves the Democratic Network, they tied black ribbons to the court's nameplate. The group also submitted a letter asking the court to review its decision.

Veera Buajeep, a red-shirt leader from Lop Buri, said 10 buses have been arranged to bring 500 supporters to Bangkok to join today's rally.

Nisitpat Wilairat, chairman of the Democracy Lover Songkhla 52, said she would gather at least 10,000 signatures from red-shirt supporters in her province to seek the impeachment of the Constitution Court judges. Her group will also join today's rally.

Meanwhile, the PAD outlined three conditions for it to organise its own street protests.

PAD rallies will take place if a law is enacted to lessen the royal power and if a law is passed to whitewash the conviction and punishment of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The third condition for the yellow shirts to descend on the streets is if the PAD deems it necessary to spearhead political reforms.

"PAD will not rally against the charter change because any attempts to tear up the Constitution could be blocked via the judicial process," PAD spokesman Panthep Pourpongpan said.

Of the three conditions, the amnesty for Thaksin was viewed as the most critical.

-- The Nation 2012-06-07

[MunterHunter]

Who wants to have a (friendly) bet that PTP will suddenly decide they *do* want to have the 3rd reading of the bill and/or vote tomorrow? With the Red Thugs already outside of Parliment they will regain their cahooners and defy the courts, the opposition and the general public

[Yunla]

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

A subject on which the redmob can speak with great erudition.

[wanttobuyacondo]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Mai penrai as Thaksinland will raise from the ashes.

Thaksinland will disappear in destruction due to war, corruption, violence

[GentlemanJim]

I can just imagine up North, thousands of villagers being herded in front of their village head men being told to sign 'this bit of paper'. Considering the subject matter, those MP's that have signed the petition are displaying an alarming lack of effective intelligence. It seems the reds want to get comfy in front of Government house so that they can stop the yellows moving back in. And so the sacrificial pawns are put in place by Thaksin and his henchmen.

[Thaddeus]

Stage one - Red government - acheived.

Stage two - Red justice system - in progress.

Stage three - Thaksin returns - scheduled for a nano second after stage two.

Stage four - Anarchy.

Stage five - Death of a nation.

[ThaiOats]

I think the Reds have only one condition: If you don't do as we say, we rally...

Voice of the mob.

I don't understand how we can call it the voice of the people if the people can be manipulated by an individual? If the masses of people follow a leader don't they become a tool for the leader's agenda? He who controls the mob controls the country?

Hardly a democracy, seems like a dictator who controls an army of pawns ready to establish his power.

Edited June 7, 2012 by ThaiOats

[marquess]

It is almost like a cartoon in that Pua Thai just won't reset the clock and make it look like certain things never happened when we all know they did. How stupid do they think the whole country is?

[Yunla]

I don't understand how we can call it the voice of the people

Redmob is the voice of "some people", and they have the right to have their voice heard. In democracy this means they contact their elected officials in parliament, who propose political motions to improve the lives of 'those people' who have contacted them. Proposing motions, or bills, should be conducted with open and fair debate by all sides of the parliament, and overseen by impartial moderator. The PM should be present for all except the most minor policy augmentation. The PM should answer all questions put to him/her on record and unscripted. The Opposition should be able to ask questions regarding any policy or bill to any member of the sitting government, and it is the duty of the questionee to answer that question put to them. This is how policy is formed along democratic lines, by a gradual debating process and eventual consensus.

Sadly the PTP prime minister is rarely in parliament, refuses to answer questions unscripted and also avoids unscripted Q&A in almost all media events. The Opposition are shouted down and intimidated during debates, told to go hang themselves, debates which are not impartially moderated or intended to promote healthy balanced consensus, merely to push PTP policy through by any possible means. The redmob outside the gates are there to protect the despotic PTP leadership from the forces of democracy which are also being silenced within the parliament during the one-sided 'talk to the hand' PTP debating style.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Yunla

[carra]

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

A subject on which the redmob can speak with great erudition.

and the yellows

[carra]

I think the Reds have only one condition: If you don't do as we say, we rally...

Voice of the mob.

I don't understand how we can call it the voice of the people if the people can be manipulated by an individual? If the masses of people follow a leader don't they become a tool for the leader's agenda? He who controls the mob controls the country?

Hardly a democracy, seems like a dictator who controls an army of pawns ready to establish his power.

and the PAD say, even if you do things legally and we do not like it, we will rally.

there are two mobs in this and both as bad as each other so I fail to see why people constantly focus on the reds

[LuckyLew]

I don't understand how we can call it the voice of the people

Redmob is the voice of "some people", and they have the right to have their voice heard. In democracy this means they contact their elected officials in parliament, who propose political motions to improve the lives of 'those people' who have contacted them. Proposing motions, or bills, should be conducted with open and fair debate by all sides of the parliament, and overseen by impartial moderator. The PM should be present for all except the most minor policy augmentation. The PM should answer all questions put to him/her on record and unscripted. The Opposition should be able to ask questions regarding any policy or bill to any member of the sitting government, annd it is the duty of the questionee to answer that question put to them. This is how policy is formed aloong democratic lines, by a gradual debating process and eventual consensus.

Sadly the PTP prime minister is rarely in parliament, refuses to answer questions unscripted and also avoids unscripted Q&A in almost all media events. The Oppostion are shouted down and iintimidated during debates, told to go hang themselves, debates which are not impartially moderated or intended to promote healthy balanced consensus, merely to push PTP policy through by any possible means. The redmob outside the gates is there to protect the despotic PTP leadership from the forces of democracy which are also being silenced within the parliament during the one-sided 'talk to the hand' PTP debating style.

It is not a democracy when you accept an envelop for your votte

[MunterHunter]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

[carra]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

[ThaiOats]

I don't understand how we can call it the voice of the people

Redmob is the voice of "some people", and they have the right to have their voice heard. In democracy this means they contact their elected officials in parliament, who propose political motions to improve the lives of 'those people' who have contacted them. Proposing motions, or bills, should be conducted with open and fair debate by all sides of the parliament, and overseen by impartial moderator. The PM should be present for all except the most minor policy augmentation. The PM should answer all questions put to him/her on record and unscripted. The Opposition should be able to ask questions regarding any policy or bill to any member of the sitting government, and it is the duty of the questionee to answer that question put to them. This is how policy is formed along democratic lines, by a gradual debating process and eventual consensus.

Sadly the PTP prime minister is rarely in parliament, refuses to answer questions unscripted and also avoids unscripted Q&A in almost all media events. The Opposition are shouted down and intimidated during debates, told to go hang themselves, debates which are not impartially moderated or intended to promote healthy balanced consensus, merely to push PTP policy through by any possible means. The redmob outside the gates are there to protect the despotic PTP leadership from the forces of democracy which are also being silenced within the parliament during the one-sided 'talk to the hand' PTP debating style.

Thanks Yunla for explaining Democracy and how it's being run PTP style.

[birdpooguava]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Can you remind us all of what the military junta did when they overthrew the people's government in 2006?

[OzMick]

I wait in false hope for those who pointed out the illegality of blocking streets last week to resume their call for free traffic flow.

[carra]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Can you remind us all of what the military junta did when they overthrew the people's government in 2006?

Oh the yellows on here will say that was to protect the country, to rid it of a tyrant, while ignoring it put the country back 10 years and even the coup leader realised his mistake and said the biggest mistake they made after the coup was to not follow Thaksins policies.

Some people have no idea what a democracy is, you take the bad with the good, thats democracy. the biggest laugh is however they follow the 'democrats' haha, a misnomer if ever i heard one.

[MunterHunter]

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

I class intimidation in parliament, ignoring the opposition (to the bill) and a house speaker who refuses to consider anyone's point of view except the red government - bullying yes, what do you call it?

Yes, i whole heartedly believe in Democracy for all and not 'as long as the people you support have control' - however this is not democracy, as has been stated many times in the recent threads these past few days, being in government doesn't mean you can do what the f*** you want, you still have responsibilities to the entire nation and need to listen to and understand all groups point of view... oh, its also a good start to actually turn up to work and answer direct questions...

This is not democracy, and you are a fool (or brainwashed/bought) if you believe it is

[Thai at Heart]

I wait in false hope for those who pointed out the illegality of blocking streets last week to resume their call for free traffic flow.

As I said, sitting down in roads for extended periods to protest isn't a legal right. All sides could just as easily have set up all their protests over the years in Lumpini, but the reason they don't is because it doesn't cause half as much chaos or afford them as much protection from the authorities.

[Thaddeus]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Bully is accurate.

What they are doing is not how democracy works,

This is..... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/560828-red-shirts-to-rally-outside-parliament-bangkok/#entry5367795

[saltandpepper]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Can you remind us all of what the military junta did when they overthrew the people's government in 2006?

What people's government?

[OzMick]

Some people have no idea what a democracy is, you take the bad with the good, thats democracy. the biggest laugh is however they follow the 'democrats' haha, a misnomer if ever i heard one.

Not only do some people not know what a democracy is, focusing on some simplistic model, they also seems totally ignorant of the term "criminal".

[Yunla]

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

A subject on which the redmob can speak with great erudition.

and the yellows

Well it was not the "yellows" as you put it, who made the statement in this thread OP "fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos". I was saying that it is rich for the redmob to come out with such a comment, bearing in mind their own free-and-easy attitude to arson and murder.

The actions of the "yellows" has never led to over 90 deaths or the burning down of family businesses or shopping centres. The "yellows" never marched under the slogans of "burn Bangkok to the ground" and "death to the elites". The redmob especially the red 'spokesmen' did instigate and pursue all those acts which resulted in murder and arson.

When Abhisit Vejjajiva was voted out of office, he stepped down gracefully, as befits a believer in electoral democracy, wishing PTP all the best wishes and good fortune in continuing the nation's work in future.[ http://www.thaivisa....arewell-speech/ ] He also gracefully stepped down from his own party leadership at the same time, in an admirable act of humility. His words "the outcome is clear -- Puea Thai has won the election and the Democrats are defeated."

My question to you, is would you really expect see the redmob/PTP/Thaksin regime step down with equally gentle grace? Or would you see them go out with a 'bang', as they are dragged kicking and screaming away from their golden trough.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Yunla

[nurofiend]

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

I class intimidation in parliament, ignoring the opposition (to the bill) and a house speaker who refuses to consider anyone's point of view except the red government - bullying yes, what do you call it?

Yes, i whole heartedly believe in Democracy for all and not 'as long as the people you support have control' - however this is not democracy, as has been stated many times in the recent threads these past few days, being in government doesn't mean you can do what the <deleted> you want, you still have responsibilities to the entire nation and need to listen to and understand all groups point of view... oh, its also a good start to actually turn up to work and answer direct questions...

This is not democracy, and you are a fool (or brainwashed/bought) if you believe it is

I class intimidation in parliament, ignoring the opposition (to the bill) and a house speaker who refuses to consider anyone's point of view except the red government

and how do you know this is the case? because it's what the democrats say happened??? because it's what you read in the nation?????

i prefer to be a bit more skeptical to the type of thing i lap up so easily.

(and i'll get this in preemptively - if anybody wants to make an accusation of me lapping up red shirt/thaksin stuff and stating it as fact then present it with evidence, cos i'm sick of people making crap up on here without backing it up.)

[MunterHunter]

and how do you know this is the case?

Do you read the news or just skip to the (often heated) discussion that follows the news threads?

[nurofiend]

and how do you know this is the case?

Do you read the news or just skip to the (often heated) discussion that follows the news threads?

quote clearly out of context... did you forget to read the part about me mentioning the nation yeah?

so i take it as a yes from what i asked.

[Crushdepth]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

Democracy is rather more complicated than the simplified view you are offering. The Parliament is subject to checks on its power, as are all branches of government. The Constitution Court is an important part of that.

[webfact]

Red shirts start rallying at Parliament

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts have on Thursday's morning started rallying at Parliament aimed at impeaching the Constitution Court judges.

Police expect the crowds to surge to about 5,000 later in the day and about four companies of policemen have been deployed to keep peace.

The rally speakers are to address the crowds in the afternoon.

The red shirts are expected to launch a signature campaign to remove the judges following a controversial decision to launch the judicial inquiry into the charter change.

Organisers said the rally might last more than one day and that the red shirts would be careful not to spill out into the Royal Plaza where the Dhamma March protesters, seen as allies of the yellow shirts, have been encamping since last week to oppose the reconciliation bill.

A number of red-shirt leaders have hinted that the rally would continue tomorrow, coinciding with the Parliament session.

The protesters want lawmakers to complete the passage of the charter change bill in defiance of the court order to put the vote on hold pending the judicial inquiry into the matter.

-- The Nation 2012-06-07

[AleG]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

Democracy is rather more complicated than the simplified view you are offering. The Parliament is subject to checks on its power, as are all branches of government. The Constitution Court is an important part of that.

carra, and other Red Shirts (and sympathizers) version of Democracy seems to be, "we got the votes we do as we see fit". Funny though, such a system wouldn't need a parliament or senate, would it? After all if you win an election that gives you the mandate to do as you please, so in a real Democracy there wouldn't be the need to have deliberative and debating forums.

Funny how after a few centuries of meddling with "democracy" such quaint, useless things as a parliament, senate and other "checks and balances" haven't been expurgated from the Democracy paradigm. I suppose everyone else has a confused concept of what "democracy" means.