Thailand - A Man'S World?

[Krupnik]

Thanks for your comment. Some of his friends might be what you would call low class, I don't see what difference it makes though

I don't mean to say that ALL of his friends have mia nois, but there are many of them. There are also some who are in solid relationships and never cheat which he also seems to respect.

As for knowing whether he will remain faithful, I have to coldly admit that it is something I would need to be sure of before I would have a child or get married, the fact that he is not more disapproving of these mia noi relationships does indeed probe a thread of doubt as you have pointed out. It scares me.

[dingdang]

in the "western world", cheating is a solid reason for a divorce...

elsewhere it is often punished with execution...

i dont know of any places in the world, where cheating is NOT regarded as something really bad:

its an abuse of trust... trampling the bond you tied...

im stunned by the fact, that it doesnt matter much here...

are you sure, the thai women also cheat on their thai men?

when they apply "im not good enough for him" (thai man), then they might also think "he is not good enough for me" (farang man) - considering all the narcissim here ("better than anyone else")...

they might well feel as having thrown pearls to the pigs - when being married to a a farang?

Edited June 22, 2012 by dingdang

[TommoPhysicist]

i dont know of any places in the world, where cheating is NOT regarded as something really bad:

its an abuse of trust... trampling the bond you tied...

im stunned by the fact, that it doesnt matter much here...

are you sure, the thai women also cheat on their thai men?

Monogamy is mainly a WASP concept.

If you ain't a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, then it usually isn't important.

PS Most of the world is Asian, just because you don;t know much about the world ....yadda yadda yadda .....

[brit1984]

i dont know of any places in the world, where cheating is NOT regarded as something really bad:

its an abuse of trust... trampling the bond you tied...

im stunned by the fact, that it doesnt matter much here...

are you sure, the thai women also cheat on their thai men?

Monogamy is mainly a WASP concept.

If you ain't a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, then it usually isn't important.

PS Most of the world is Asian, just because you don;t know much about the world ....yadda yadda yadda .....

Monogamy is not confined to White Anglo Saxon Protestants. In fact, it is the norm in nearly all developed countries and most developing countries.

I would add the caveat that I am referring to planet earth in the 21st century. You might also be correct if you are referring to a different world or time period.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[TommoPhysicist]

i dont know of any places in the world, where cheating is NOT regarded as something really bad:

its an abuse of trust... trampling the bond you tied...

im stunned by the fact, that it doesnt matter much here...

are you sure, the thai women also cheat on their thai men?

Monogamy is mainly a WASP concept.

If you ain't a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, then it usually isn't important.

PS Most of the world is Asian, just because you don;t know much about the world ....yadda yadda yadda .....

Monogamy is not confined to White Anglo Saxon Protestants. In fact, it is the norm in nearly all developed countries and most developing countries.

If you had said Christian based countries, then maybe.

China (which is most of the world) certainly allows minor wives, especially among the wealthy.

Not to do with developmental levels, all to do with religion and Christianity stands astride the western world like a Colossus..

[brit1984]

i dont know of any places in the world, where cheating is NOT regarded as something really bad:

its an abuse of trust... trampling the bond you tied...

im stunned by the fact, that it doesnt matter much here...

are you sure, the thai women also cheat on their thai men?

Monogamy is mainly a WASP concept.

If you ain't a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, then it usually isn't important.

PS Most of the world is Asian, just because you don;t know much about the world ....yadda yadda yadda .....

Monogamy is not confined to White Anglo Saxon Protestants. In fact, it is the norm in nearly all developed countries and most developing countries.

If you had said Christian based countries, then maybe.

China (which is most of the world) certainly allows minor wives, especially among the wealthy.

Not to do with developmental levels, all to do with religion and Christianity stands astride the western world like a Colossus..

Just because a few well-known wealthy elite Chinese men are known to have had affairs, does not mean monogamy is not the norm in China.

I have many Chinese friends, both in London as well as in China (who I met through my brother who lives in Shanghai with my Chinese SIL), and they are all monogamous.

I think you are talking about a world that you were taught about in school a long time ago (and based on some very outdated textbooks).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Edited June 22, 2012 by brit1984

[mike123ca]

I think a foreign women really gets the short end of the stick here in Thailand if she gets divorced.

Thailand is not very generous, spouse only has to pay child support, no alimony. If husband doesn't want

to provide support very difficult to make him pay it.

Also your marriage visa no longer exists and immigration starts to encourage you to go back to your home country.

[theblether]

Thanks for your comment. Some of his friends might be what you would call low class, I don't see what difference it makes though

I don't mean to say that ALL of his friends have mia nois, but there are many of them. There are also some who are in solid relationships and never cheat which he also seems to respect.

As for knowing whether he will remain faithful, I have to coldly admit that it is something I would need to be sure of before I would have a child or get married, the fact that he is not more disapproving of these mia noi relationships does indeed probe a thread of doubt as you have pointed out. It scares me.

That's a wide net your casting there Krupnik, I've seen many men be unfaithful and I've passed no comment, it doesn't mean that I approve of it, it just means that I didn't comment as really, it's nothing to do with me.

I can proudly say in my case that I was never unfaithful to my wife, and I've never been unfaithful to a girlfriend, however that is my personal choice. It's also my personal choice to not get involved in adults personal relationships. I don't think I deserve condemnation for that and I don't think your bf deserves doubt because he not more condemnatory.

You need to be careful of painting yourself into a suspicious corner, as from experience, I can tell you that the guys who were playing away the most were also the most convincing liars.

[Krupnik]

Thanks for your comment. Some of his friends might be what you would call low class, I don't see what difference it makes though

I don't mean to say that ALL of his friends have mia nois, but there are many of them. There are also some who are in solid relationships and never cheat which he also seems to respect.

As for knowing whether he will remain faithful, I have to coldly admit that it is something I would need to be sure of before I would have a child or get married, the fact that he is not more disapproving of these mia noi relationships does indeed probe a thread of doubt as you have pointed out. It scares me.

That's a wide net your casting there Krupnik, I've seen many men be unfaithful and I've passed no comment, it doesn't mean that I approve of it, it just means that I didn't comment as really, it's nothing to do with me.

I can proudly say in my case that I was never unfaithful to my wife, and I've never been unfaithful to a girlfriend, however that is my personal choice. It's also my personal choice to not get involved in adults personal relationships. I don't think I deserve condemnation for that and I don't think your bf deserves doubt because he not more condemnatory.

You need to be careful of painting yourself into a suspicious corner, as from experience, I can tell you that the guys who were playing away the most were also the most convincing liars.

Thanks theblether I take heed of your advice. Your post is encouraging,

[sbk]

good post blether and very true

[samsiam]

A neighbour on our farm is a copper...he has 3 wives and kids with them all.

I really fail to see the enjoyment of this type of life...a minute of peace and all that.

My missus would be off like a shot if I had one thats for sure....I like a quite life, not looking over my shoulder...but I am not a young buck anymore either.

[bina]

the beduins always say the more wives the more paracetamol they need (the more head aches they have).. .

seems the topoic got kidnapped abit, i just dont see the point injudging women (or men) , im sure half of the filipinas ive talked with would be considered 'working girls' regardless of the way they do it; and many men cheating on their income tax (i have to remake bills w/o details when giving tax recepts at hotel , for instance... doesnt mean they arent good family men or good friends to have... )

the point is, how much are u willing to put up with, how much u dont really care about, how secure u are in yourself or boyfriend, and if u arent, then u should ask yourself why...i think that sometimes things change with age and station in life...

what i can say is that thai men do seem to press other men friends in to the 'hang otu with the guys' situations, which is not an israeli thing, where the men dont move w/o their wives, but then the wives dont move w/o the husbands either. everything here is in couples together so to be single is horrible. very time anon goes off to be with the guys, i get invited to dinner by friends to be clucked over and asked a million questions, but i do understand hubby's need to be with the guys, and other women here have stated they have the same situations, mostly on weekends... (the few ive met with thai issaan husbands. not anyone here as far as i know with a city boy educated type husband yet, since most of the labourers here are from non educated or poor areas.)

[IMA_FARANG]

Well in my extended Thai family (and 3 generations) there is the whole spectrum.

First of all, I'm 66 my Thai wife is 64.

Her father had 3 wives....at that time having male sons to inherit land was very important. Most of her father's childen were female,and that's why he had 3 wives....to get sons so as to keep the land in the family name.

That was long ago, and the laws have been changed for some time now, but sons were important to farmers back then for the reason I mentioned above.

My wife married young, when she was about 18....to a man from Thai/Australian/Burmese mix family. He ran away after 5 years leaving her with 3 children to raise and not much else. He died in Austrailia many years ago. No divorce, he just left her.

That's when I met her and married her about 35 years ago now. I was "dad" to her three children.

Her daughter got married to a relitively well off Thai man....he left the daughter after about 10 years for another younger Thai woman.The daughter remarried and now has a daughter from her seoind marriage. They appear to be happy, and are still together. Daughter is 45, her daughter is 18.

My wife's sister was for a while the Mia Noi of a Thai businessman....and he later left her also. My wife's sister however had a career with the Thai government....she is now retired with a government pension and health and housing benefits from her government service. So she is relitively well off...umarried still but unlikely to ever be or frankly want to be.

My wife's eldest Thai son was never married but lived for many years with a Thai woman who left him to start a relationship with a German guy. He is 43 now, and there's a relateionship with a women of about 40.

The grand daughter has been westernised (if there is such a term) by her family's experiences with foriegners. She at 18 isn't thinking about marriage yet...there are boyfriends....but she is hoping to go to university....and right now that's the most important thing in her mind. Boys will just have to wait, for now.

I just tell you all this to show you how attitudes have changed and are still changing....at least here in the Bangkok area. And my Thai family shows how they have changed in roughly 50 years.

It sounds like a soap opera....but it's all true.

Edited June 24, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[brit1984]

Well in my extended Thai family (and 3 generations) there is the whole spectrum.

First of all, I'm 66 my Thai wife is 64.

Her father had 3 wives....at that time having male sons to inherit land was very important. Most of her father's childen were female,and that's why he had 3 wives....to get sons so as to keep the land in the family name.

That was long ago, and the laws have been changed for some time now, but sons were important to farmers back then for the reason I mentioned above.

My wife married young, when she was about 18....to a man from Thai/Australian/Burmese mix family. He ran away after 5 years leaving her with 3 children to raise and not much else. He died in Austrailia many years ago. No divorce, he just left her.

That's when I met her and married her about 35 years ago now. I was "dad" to her three children.

Her daughter got married to a relitively well off Thai man....he left the daughter after about 10 years for another younger Thai woman.The daughter remarried and now has a daughter from her seoind marriage. They appear to be happy, and are still together. Daughter is 45, her daughter is 18.

My wife's sister was for a while the Mia Noi of a Thai businessman....and he later left her also. My wife's sister however had a career with the Thai government....she is now retired with a government pension and health and housing benefits from her government service. So she is relitively well off...umarried still but unlikely to ever be or frankly want to be.

My wife's eldest Thai son was never married but lived for many years with a Thai woman who left him to start a relationship with a German guy. He is 43 now, and there's a relateionship with a women of about 40.

The grand daughter has been westernised (if there is such a term) by her family's experiences with foriegners. She at 18 isn't thinking about marriage yet...there are boyfriends....but she is hoping to go to university....and right now that's the most important thing in her mind. Boys will just have to wait, for now.

I just tell you all this to show you how attitudes have changed and are still changing....at least here in the Bangkok area. And my Thai family shows how they have changed in roughly 50 years.

It sounds like a soap opera....but it's all true.

Thank you for sharing that story.

The historical context is interesting for someone like me who is new to Thailand.

The young Thai people I know give no clues to the contrasting attitudes of the older generations.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[dingdang]

in europe it was also very welcomed to have a son for inheritance reasons, but nobody married many wives...

it was just given to the eldest daughter, provided she married a useful guy - what she was expected to do...

Edited June 24, 2012 by dingdang

[jacktrip]

'Second wife' denotes status, not the number of females this man is probably banging in his free time.

So the second wife could be number two in a list of 100. Something to think about. There is also the VD issue which unfortunately not many Thias will fess up to before you get in the sack do to the loss of face involved. The Mia Noi concept in Thai is one of face that puts a mask of respectability on someone who just likes to bang a lot.

In gneral, the more women a guy is banging the less special and important each one tends to become. You can't introduce 100 women to all your friends with the respect and time she deserves. So you eventually get what you saw here with the women being ignored and just the men talking who had more solid relationship.

Edited July 13, 2012 by jacktrip

[TommoPhysicist]

In gneral, the more women a guy is banging the less special and important each one tends to become. You can't introduce 100 women to all your friends with the respect and time she deserves. So you eventually get what you saw here with the women being ignored and just the men talking who had more solid relationship.

Most Thai families I know don't really drag spouses round to see friends much.

Outside the home the men and women do their own thing separately.

[smokie36]

Thanks for your comment. Some of his friends might be what you would call low class, I don't see what difference it makes though

I don't mean to say that ALL of his friends have mia nois, but there are many of them. There are also some who are in solid relationships and never cheat which he also seems to respect.

As for knowing whether he will remain faithful, I have to coldly admit that it is something I would need to be sure of before I would have a child or get married, the fact that he is not more disapproving of these mia noi relationships does indeed probe a thread of doubt as you have pointed out. It scares me.

That's a wide net your casting there Krupnik, I've seen many men be unfaithful and I've passed no comment, it doesn't mean that I approve of it, it just means that I didn't comment as really, it's nothing to do with me.

I can proudly say in my case that I was never unfaithful to my wife, and I've never been unfaithful to a girlfriend, however that is my personal choice. It's also my personal choice to not get involved in adults personal relationships. I don't think I deserve condemnation for that and I don't think your bf deserves doubt because he not more condemnatory.

You need to be careful of painting yourself into a suspicious corner, as from experience, I can tell you that the guys who were playing away the most were also the most convincing liars.

I have a cousin who is a sales manager, been married for 15 years to his childhood sweetheart, 2 lovely kids, yet I know he has different girlfriends from time to time in various parts of the country who he visits when staying in hotels etc.

He will happily discuss them with me at any opportunity, on which occasions I tend to just move the conversation along as quickly as it allows. Thing is I like his wife...and either she must know, and tolerate it....or more likely she has no clue whatsoever. In any case it is none of my business. Its not something I would ever do....simply a question of personal values.

He sees nothing wrong with this at all is what I am saying, and if you are with a guy who has done this once, then he can and will do it again, f there is no real belief that he should be monogamous.

I'm sure its exactly the same for women too.

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

OP, women and men don't want the same relationship. They want the opposite, usually. Women like a fixed 1-1 relationship without freedom, but with a high degree of adjustment, conformity, security, and so on. Men like freedom. He loves the woman, but he feels very uncomfortable not having any freedom. It can make him sick, just like a man's unfaithfulness can make a woman sick. Of course there are different men and all that, but generally this is the tendencies.

To make it simple, in Asia men have the power, in the West women have the power. The West is the woman's world, Asia the man's ditto. There is certainly a very high degree of sexism in the West. I have felt severely suppressed all my life, here, and that is one of the main reasons I am moving to Thailand to live, permanently. Men have no value here in Denmark, we are expected to be ashamed of ourselves just because of our gender. This is, of course, slightly subtle, but nevertheless certainly there. The woman controls everything, here, and the man-hating atmosphere is all around. I am really tired of it. Discrimination on the basis of my gender, alone.

I think the world will always be dual. If there are parts of the world in which the woman rules, then there will also be parts where the man rules. Contradiction seems to be the very essence of this creation. I am just very unlucky, as a very masculine and naturally dominant man, to be born in a country completely rules by women and where men are expected to submit to the "feminine" gender. Which is not really feminine, anymore...

I will stop here. Just my two cents...

[sbk]

Yes probably best you do, and then do a bit of research on pay equality etc etc etc before making gross generalizations. cheers.

[NBD]

The mia noi thing isn't unique to Thailand by any stretch, or even Asia.

Still quite common in France and Italy in some circles - French common law even granted certain rights to "widow-noi" I believe. It was quite common in Victorian England too, despite the puritanical streak.

In pretty much any society where there are wealthy older men and pretty young women they'll find a way to trade to their comparative advantages.

[meatballs]

Very few Thai women are accepting of these "mia nois". My Thai wife would never allow it.

Cheaters exist everywhere and I'm sure most of their girlfriends or wives wouldn't approve.

[meatballs]

There's many ways of looking at it. Without sounded supercilious, I would say that Asia as a whole is a man's world. If you came here expecting equality, be it sexual or racial you have made a mistake. If it bothers you that much you should question whether you should stay in Asia.

Wait until she's been to the mid-east or africa. I'm afraid she's going to need to go home.

[Gaccha]

SBK mentions the pay equality trope. No matter how many times this is pointed out to be nonsense it will not die. It should be called the 'phoenix defence'.

The figure given is normally a 17% pay differential, based on a strict comparison of pay levels for each sex. But if it is adjusted for full time workers on equal experience the 'discrimination' disappears.

Young women, who have not moved their priorities to child rearing, earn more than their male cohorts. In both male-dominated and female- dominated occupations, applications made by women are enormously favoured.

This is privileging through the language of 'rights' and 'equality'. The disconnect between the academic position and the female-centric press is beginning to be untenable.

As SBK rightly observes, we should read more on these issues to find the brute truths. I really hope she takes her own advice.

[sbk]

Oh puleeze, I get so tired of men who have really no idea what its like to be a woman lecturing me on what its like to be a woman.

This is the LADIES forum, and as such is meant to be a place women can go to avoid precisely this kind of attitude. Men are, of course, welcome but if you can't post in here without your flogging your agenda then please don't post, thanks.