U K Cautions Citizens After Koh Phangan Killing: Thailand

[terak]

uk embassy jumping on bandwagon - have they told us to be careful of Switzerland ??? That will worry the mp's with ill-gotten gains there

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18773158

[steffi]

The British embassy has to show the Thai authorities that the welfare of their citizens matters. That means the British embassy has to start making threats about tourism to Thailand for Thailand to bother to do something about it. Long sentences for violators and people who prey on tourists. Otherwise tourists will continue to be prey as there's little incentive for Thais to stop.

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Oh come on. You are way over the top on this. There are obviously some safety issues related to Thailand, but foreign governments have all provided the necessary cautions and advisories. it is up to the individual visitor to exercise sober judgement. Do you really think that if the warning was any stronger, visitors would listen? The likelihood of a random killing like this is remote and probably far less than back in the UK. A foreign government cannot do any more than what has been done, unless you want the UK to send warships and a garrison to protect its citizens when they go drinking? On one hand we have people complaining of the nanny state and then we have people complaining there is not enough nanny state. If you really want the nasty truth, any prudent sentient person would give koh Phagnan a pass, and yet hundreds of thousands do not. If the visitor doesn't want to be cautious there is nothing the UK government can do. The warnings are all over the place.

[timewilltell]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

As quoted above HMG has provided a very specific warning via FCO travel advisory website, repeated below. It is impossible to avoid any possibility of danger, even in the U.K.

"Western tourists have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by gangs in Koh Phangan. These attacks are particularly common around the time of the Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars in Haad Rin on Koh Phangan".

Cant make out from that which side you are on but even if that advise sounds good then I still question the effect or productivity. There are only really 2 things that someone can do off the back of that advice.........either not come to Thailand at all or somehow behave or prepare differently while they are here. Not coming to Thailand wont hardly ever be an option unless the person concerned is an extremely paranoid person or if the general feeling is really really bad (like mass waves of public crime and break out). And of course no one can be in preparation while they are here all of the time in anticipation of a violent situation.

All in all its bad and not very productive advice and I suspect just the normal PR that the British Embassy try to come out with when they cant do anything, which I accept they cant and dont blame them but dont try to pretend you care and you are helping by coming out with PR rubbish that is more damaging. As with many other things that happen in Thailand the British Embassy is quite poor in its performance. I only need to remind readers of how they advised and reported the Red Shirts in Bangkok.

It is just not true that the British Embassy cannot do anything. They can do plenty. For a start they can demand justice where there has been injustice. As someone who has suffered injustice and continues to do so because of the racism in this country and the Thai love Thai mentality, and having advised the Embassy of the situation they are less than interested. In fact given I was being targeted by mafia and had to run away - they would not even expedite a passport for my children. I think there is a great deal they could do just by publishing all the scams against tourists and expats alike and making noises at government level to have these practices dealt with. The fat is they don;t because they are interested in business (no matter the businesses that trade here will be treated in a WHOLLY different manner than a Thai company by the tax office and the VAT office. They will also find gross racism in the Civil Justice system against them - if there is no justice in the law of contract then what basis is that for any business to invest here for contract is the basis of all business.)

If the Embassy had any gumption at all they would be assisting their citizens which I consider to be their job, protecting business by seeking an improvement in the Civil Justice system and monitoring what goes on when they are approached for help by expats living here getting an extremely raw deal. Of course they cannot write the laws but they can put pressure to bear and they can certainly bring all these issues out into the open. They choose not to because they don't want to upset the Thai government for reasons which I am sure they know but which negatively impact in a huge way, the job they really should be doing in the minds of most people. It really is worse than pathetic.

Truly a horrific time for the family of this poor lad whose life has been snuffed out by a scumbag - his whole life ahead of him and devastation for his family and loved ones. It really is too tragic and some international pressure is the only thing these bozos running the country will understand. As for being cautious - what is one supposed to do when people are running around with guns shooting in public places and groups of men are going around raping western women. This is not an isolated incident either - the reaction of the Embassy is as usual grossly sickening and pathetic.

[gmac]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Oh come on. You are way over the top on this. There are obviously some safety issues related to Thailand, but foreign governments have all provided the necessary cautions and advisories. it is up to the individual visitor to exercise sober judgement. Do you really think that if the warning was any stronger, visitors would listen? The likelihood of a random killing like this is remote and probably far less than back in the UK. A foreign government cannot do any more than what has been done, unless you want the UK to send warships and a garrison to protect its citizens when they go drinking? On one hand we have people complaining of the nanny state and then we have people complaining there is not enough nanny state. If you really want the nasty truth, any prudent sentient person would give koh Phagnan a pass, and yet hundreds of thousands do not. If the visitor doesn't want to be cautious there is nothing the UK government can do. The warnings are all over the place.

I agree, which is the reason why I think that if all an Embassy can do after an event like this is give unproductive advice such as "be careful" then it should just not bother. "be careful" can apply to anywhere and does not help in the slightest. Only knowing or being prewarned of a very generic danger in a vast area does not help you at all in preventing possible situations.

The vast majority of violent incidents such as this shooting are Thai on Thai. The biggest danger to foreigners arises when they attend large gatherings which include significant numbers of Thais and perhaps any government warning should stress this. In Pattaya there are constant news reports of shootings etc., but these are largely confined to the early hours of the morning in areas where groups/gangs of Thais congregate such as disco's and karaoke pubs. There is no doubt that life is cheap here and resorting to guns or knives to settle alcohol-fuelled minor disputes is, regrettably, not uncommon.

[timewilltell]

Lived in Thailand for more than 6 years and had been coming here for almost 5 years before that and I am happy to say I have NEVER been to Koh Pha-ngan nor do I have any desire to ever attend that awful place full of stupid drunk foreigners, drug addicts and the lowest of the low you will find anywhere in Thailand. Heard enough of the horror stories from not only Thai Visa but friends who have gone and vowed to never return. Go to that toilet at your own risk and don't complain when something bad happens to you.

Yes well the poor lad who lost his life can't complain now can he. That is left up to others - most of whom like you don't choose to complain or voice on the issue, which in turn just promotes continuance of the problems - very Thai!

[Docno]

Interesting pic, the bad guy gets to wear the body armour.

Boy, is that a contrite expression if I ever saw one!

It's all a joke, he knows it because he didn't kill a person, he killed a farang. I don't think there any Thai laws against that.

Major news in Australia also, heres a link to the re enactment. actually two stories in this clip.

http://news.ninemsn....death-in-phuket

The suspect has quite a contented smug smile on his face, probably thinking nothing will come of it as it was just an accident. My condolences to the family.

Please keep in mind that smiles in SE Asia do not always convey happiness, joy, or smugness. They are also seen during times of embarrassment, stress, conflict, or emotional turmoil. I see this all the time in my work (which, in part, involves putting people under stress for assessment purposes). I have no idea what's going through this guy's head (though I don't see the eye-creasing associated with a happy smile), and so we should hesitate to draw inferences from his facial expression. And we should be very hesitant to draw inferences from this about Thai people or Thailand in general. Then again, this is Thai Visa, right, and Thailand bashing is always good sport around here it seems...

[Basil B]

Lived in Thailand for more than 6 years and had been coming here for almost 5 years before that and I am happy to say I have NEVER been to Koh Pha-ngan nor do I have any desire to ever attend that awful place full of stupid drunk foreigners, drug addicts and the lowest of the low you will find anywhere in Thailand. Heard enough of the horror stories from not only Thai Visa but friends who have gone and vowed to never return. Go to that toilet at your own risk and don't complain when something bad happens to you.

there are many other places in Thailand that would fit that description.

What's all this talk about a suspended sentence?

What law in Thailand allows this guy to be in possession of a firearm in a public place?

If he was very well connected the case would probably not get to court.

How can you control anything when the country is ruled buy openly corrupt politicians?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Basil B

[Arkady]

He managed to squeeze out a crooked smile for the camera in this one. Bit of a hero with the lads now. But time to contemplate the next 20 years as a guest of HM.

[Suffinator]

The UK Government, like most governments, are just not doing enough. Read an article that puts Thailand 3rd in the world, just below Colombia, for violent gun crime. Interesting to note that with a population five times less than the U.S it has over double the violent gun crime stats.

Amazing Thailand for sure.

[Arkady]

Not applicable to beach bars but having metal detectors in pubs and discos would help a bit, although the operators can be bribed to switch them off as thugs pass through with their guns. All attempts to introduce these sort of illegal gun controls have been hotly resisted by the night club owners supported by the police they pay off because they know the biggest spenders are gangsters who won't go anywhere without their guns and armed bodyguards.

[mufcsamui]

It would be good to hear from the victims friends once they are out of Thailand, as the only truth you will get from local police polititians etc will be the protect tourism (money) truth. Home made gun stray bullet dont buy it.

[davidstipek]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Does it matter if he was "Dancing in the Bar"? Or walking past bar... Or sitting on Beach... Or at home watchig Television... ???

He could have been hit anywhere! A stray bullet does not choose to stay within the confined space of shooter. Only thing we can justify is the fact, being at bar and knowing who pulled trigger... we positivly know who killer is!

The fact about Murder or Manslaughter... is it not a Thai Law forbidding ownership of unlicensed firearms?? So if by breaking this Law did not the shooter open himself up to whatever the results were once he pulled the trigger?

"Every Action has a Reaction" Basic Laws of Karma!!

[Whidbeyboy]

Look out TAT.......... people are beginning to notice.

ahh so that explains the robust tourism numbers.......

Record numbers every year, soon the country will be to small to accomadate all the arrivals and they will have to start turning people away. We have all heard of extreme sports, well Thailand could soon lay claim to the hub of extreme tourism.

Time to start looking at other countries to find that "minimal tourist" experince? Laos, Vietnam? I am usually up North and haven't seen any of this stuff that I read about down South. When witth spec ops in Okinawa we were down South a lot, but never saw or heard of anything like this, but that was back in the late 80s. Has it changed that much in 20 years? We walk the streets at night with impunity. Never a thought of Thailand being dangerous back then. Now, the Philippines, that was another matter all together, and would NOT walk off the beaten path there.

Sad to think Thailand is becoming this way. Do you think Western influence has anything to do with it? Monkey see, Monkey do?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Whidbeyboy

[belg]

let us all hope this is not a new form of gang affiliation as you can see for many decades in the US with criminal gangs... go kill a farang (or just anybody) to prove you are worthy of being a member...

[newermonkey]

Honestly the suspect looks like a complete moron with that soppy smile on his face!

[personchester]

Major news in Australia also, heres a link to the re enactment. actually two stories in this clip.

http://news.ninemsn....death-in-phuket

The suspect has quite a contented smug smile on his face, probably thinking nothing will come of it as it was just an accident. My condolences to the family.

The smile could also mean that he thinks nothing will happen to me ... I did my Thai duty.

[EyesWideOpen]

If I see a statement from TAT that this will not affect tourism, I am going to puke........

Note to self: Avoid large gatherings of drunken Thais. Oh wait I have alway done that..

I cannot even imagine the pain the family is going through from such a senseless death. :-(

[TheGhostWithin]

Harsh sentences need to be applied, after strong Policing identifies the true culprits who should face a trail which clearly identifies them as the offender. Offenders should be published on national tv and newspapers displaying their harsh sentences, using the media effectively (this is not often dine in Thailand or many other countries).

The respective embassies have the right to and should be listing serious crimes against their countrymen, what the crime was, when it happened, who the offender was and what the criminal case outcome was. This would show those from their respective countries if a place was dangerous or not (e.g. I suspect a lot of violent crimes would be perpitrated against countrymen with a strong drinking culture such as the U.K and Russia, and more so slight of hand and deception crimes against those who get out and enjoy the countryside more such as Americans and the Swiss.

The embassies cannot force people to not visit a destination without a travel blockade, but they can help their countrymen/women make smarter, more informed decisions about where they will go and who they will take. Despite what the current Thai adminiatration is trying to imply, Pattaya, Phuket and other such places are not places to take Children, wives on a honeymoon or families on Christmas holidays. Only the embassies have the ability to prove a clear and concise view of reality in Thailand, and only if they do their jobs with honesty and integrity.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[saroq]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

If you believe that Thailand is incredibly dangerous and tourists should be warned about the dangers: deaths, muggings, rapes, scams, road accidents etc. then major ongoing press coverage would achieve far more than government warnings. I will be interested to see what sentence this man receives from the Thai courts.

[techboy]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Hey osiboy. I am not saying that I agree with everything you say- It is a little bit overboard. But you got great style. Did you ever consider writing one of those "angry cop" novels or something along those lines? Really- great post. Happy New Year!

[morpho]

When I see the smug look on this guy's face, I see someone who feels confident that he is going to get away with killing someone else and he doesn't give a dam_n!

[Fluxguru]

Millions of people walk the mountains. Most of them avoid regions of falling rocks. Those who don't do it at their own risk. There are plenty of places in the world sensible people avoid. Like walking the back streets of Camden in N.Y. State or the Copacabana after midnight. Anyone who has been at a full moon party in Koh Phangan knows it is a similar place. Stories and reports abound. Expecting it to offer the security and safety of a walled-in resort speaks of other-worldliness or pure stupidity. It is not a secret, it is knowledge of the simplest kind. Thailand is as safe as any other main tourist destination and it has like all the other joy-ride destinations unsafe places where people come to drink and let lose. If you go there, don't complain if something happens. It is part of our highly advertised adventure joy-ride culture.

[leggo]

As usual a mixed bag of opinions -some terribly over the top remarks about the British Embassy which to be fair gives travellers to that region all the necessary warnings that it could. Who in their right mind would go to that beach on New Year's eve I don't know . Having said that; it's tragic that a young man died that night for no reason and my heart goes out to his family.

Edited January 3, 2013 by leggo

[technologybytes]

so many people are asking "how can you be cautious of a stray bullet", of course you cannot.

However.. being at a bar hours after it's officially closed, at 5am in the morning would always be much more dangerous than at normal times.. Ok I fully appreciate that you don't go to koh-phangan to go to bed at 11pm and I'm not suggesting that he was acting irresponsibly at all.. but being drunk or otherwise intoxicated (I'm not saying he was) and being at that time in the morning, he may not have been aware of the increased danger and he may not have been quite as quick to spot danger signs as someone who is fully awake and fully sober.

Generally Thailand is not dangerous for Tourists, but anywhere can be dangerous if you are not careful and especially in the early hours of the morning.

One more point. The accused appears to be smiling in some photos, unless I'm mistaken Thai people smile for reasons that are very different to westerners, it does not mean he thinks its funny, or that he thinks he won't be punished. It's always possible (I don't know if its the case) that he's remorseful and devastated at the knowledge that his actions resulted in a man's death.. he may still smile. Somehow I doubt he is that caring or thoughtful, but it's possible.

[blackthorn2005]

I would say it is time for the Thai government to get a grip and start looking after tourists but I think I am about 10 years too late.

[howzat]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

A bit over reaction there, how many people come here year in and out without as much as a scratch. My best wishes to the family in their time of loss.

Usual Thai Visa doom merchants that jump at the chance to rubbish Thailand. I have been15 years and never seen a violent action and yes I do go to pubs a lot. Seen more than my fair share of fights in my hometown in U.K. though

[Halion]

Regardless of the varying opinions expressed there are two salient and undenyable scenarios.

One is that The British Embasy through the Foreign Office has a mandate to provide information and support to its nationals abroad. Currently this support is minimal and they go out of their way in order not to rock the boat. I have been an expat for the pat 40 years in one country or another and I have seen their service and attitude wither to the level it is at today.pathetic !

The second point is that anyone who does not accept that this is indeed a dangerous country is either in denial or on prescription medicine. Violent crime, rape, road carnage, drug abuse, firearm abuse,child abuse,rampant corruption and scams and extorsion occur regularly with little or no chance of retribution and even less oversight from the embassy. The local media gives these stories the one day wonder treatment and then they are forgotten.

The henious fact is that these things go on daily under our very noses and there is nothing we can do to stop it and very little in the way of justice. It is what it is... and by all likelyhood it will remain so.

[stoffel45]

Koh Phangan - beautiful island, nice beaches, not too crowded.

Full Moon or Half-Moon Parties are to be avoided. It is these events which should have very strong "DO not go there it is dangerous - it can be lethal - you will be lucky not be to be robbed at best." advisories.

The place is brimming with pot, coke, ice, ecstasy - mostly toxic cut. All sanctioned by the "owners of the island" and supporters by enforcement.

If you really are looking for a good chance at real trouble - go to one of these druggies parties.

If you want to visit a lovely island in a beautiful sea in a great country - go to Koh Phangan.

[charmonman]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

A bit over reaction there, how many people come here year in and out without as much as a scratch. My best wishes to the family in their time of loss.

Usual Thai Visa doom merchants that jump at the chance to rubbish Thailand. I have been15 years and never seen a violent action and yes I do go to pubs a lot. Seen more than my fair share of fights in my hometown in U.K. though

I've seen a couple of gang fights 20 years ago or so, but they were using sticks not guns, and no bystanders (farang or otherwise) were hurt. Thailand is a completely different place now, unfortunately. I'm not rubbishing the place just for the sake of it, just making an observation.

[MILT]