Amd Turion Vs. Intel Core Duo Processor

[kkengvibul]

I am currently looking for a laptop priced around 50,000 to 60,000 baht.

I'm not much of a computer person so I was just wondering which is the better processor between AMD Turion and the Inter Core Duo Processor.

Many people told me that i should buy the AMD Turion because it can run both the 32 and 64 bit applications. But some people also say we don't really need to use the 64 bit applications right now. Is that true?

Also, is the Intel Core Duo processor (the one im lookin at is around 1.66GHz 2MB L2 cache, 667MHz FSB) faster than the AMD Turion (1.8GHz, 1MB L2 Cache)? (in the case that the amount of RAM is the same---however, for the AMD its the normal DDR-Ram, while its' DDR2-533 for the core duo)

And..is there a big difference between those two for the 1mb and 2mb L2 Cache??

Any of your help would be appreciated!

[Florin]

There is no advantage to a 64-bit CPU now...later, yes, but we're talking about muuuch later before 64-bit programs are common, late enough for you to want a new laptop

The Core Duo will be faster, as the name implies, it has essentially 2 CPUs in the same package (they share the cache, though), so for multitasking or programs running in the background, it's a godsend, since they can share the tasks between 2 CPUs.

I'd go for the Core Duo, but keep in mind that if it comes with onboard graphics, it will be pretty crap for games, whereas the Turion has better onboard graphics because of the ATI chipset it uses. Not much, better, though. If you get a Core Duo with a dedicated graphics chip (I think at least ACER is within your price range for such a spec), it will also be great for games.

[kkengvibul]

thanks!

these are the two Acer models I'm lookin at:

Acer Aspire 5024NWLMi

AMD Turion 64 ML-34 (1.8GHz, 1MB L2 Cache)

ATI Radeon Xpress 200m chipset

Wirless LAN IEEE 802.11b/g

Integrated Bluetooth

512MB DDR-RAM (MAX 2 GB)

100 GB HDD, Weight 3.07kg

DVD DUAL DOuble Layer, 6-in-1 card reader

56k fax/modem, 10/100/1000MBPs LAN

15.4" WXGA ACER Crystalbrite TFT LCD (1280 x 800 pixel) S-video out

ATI MObility Radeon X100 128mb

LI-Ion battery (avg 3 hrs)

IEEE 1394 Port, infrared port

Acer SignalUP wirelesst technology support

Linpus Linux BE

1 year Int. Warraty

PRICED AT 49,900 baht exc. VAT

Acer Travelmate 3282NWXMi

Intel Centrino Duo Mobile Technology

Intel Core Duo processor T2300 (1.66GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 667 MHz FSB)

Intel 945PM Express Chipset

Integrated intel Pro/Wireless 3945BG

Integrated Bluetooth

512MB DDR2-533 (Max 4GB)

80GB SATA HDD with DASP, Weight 2.35 kg

DVD Super Multi Double Layer, 5 in 1 card reader

56k fax/modem, 10/100/1000MBPs Lan

14.1 WXGA TFT LCD (1280 x 800 pixel) S video out

ATI Mobility Radeon x1400 256 MB Hypermemory

LI-Ion batter (avg 3 hrs)

express card/34Slot

Linpus Linux BE

1 year Int. Warranty

Priced at 54,900 baht exc. VAT

What do you think?

(ps. Would the AMD TUrion be better when the AMD TUrion x2 comes out?)

[Firefoxx]

I agree... go with duo-core, as it's much better for multitasking.

What you don't see in those specs is that the Turion notebook is about 3KG, while the Core Duo one is around 2.35KG... a lot lighter, and getting near ultra-portable (1.9kg) range. The Core Duo notebook has a dedicated ATI next-gen graphics chip, the X1400, but it's not that powerful. Sadly, the only one that has the more powerful chip (the X1600) costs 99,000. The 5652WLMI also is a Core Duo with a more powerful Nvidia graphics chip, but it's more expensive (69,900) and weighs 2.9kg.

The 5562NWXMi has similar specs to the one you're looking at, but with a smaller harddisk and a slot-loading drive, and is 2,000 more.

Don't forget that notebooks benefit a *lot* from more memory, so be sure to upgrade... if you want to save a bit on memory, you can get Apacer memory from Hardware House (about the only place in Fortune that sells it).

[Florin]

AMD still hasn't caught up with Intel when it comes to power consumption either, so there's no question that amongst those two systems the Intel one is the preferable option, stuff like the SATA harddisk, 700g less weight, more portability with the 14'' screen, expresscard slot (new PCMCIA replacement), better graphics are all nice to have. The Turion x2 will perform on par with the Intel, but will still not have caught up with Intel's power management/conservation. And the Intel is a computer you can buy right now, as opposed to the x2

[kkengvibul]

I see..thanks for all of your suggestions!

I guess i'll buy the Intel Core Duo Processor then! I'm thinking about buying it at the Commart Exhibition @ Queen Sirikit Center~

[h90]

in that price class put in 1 GB Memory instead of 512. Better go with a slower cpu and more memory...

I see..thanks for all of your suggestions!

I guess i'll buy the Intel Core Duo Processor then! I'm thinking about buying it at the Commart Exhibition @ Queen Sirikit Center~

[kkengvibul]

I'm not sure whether its 256 x 2..or just the one 512MB...

anyone know?

[astral]

I am looking at the AMD ML-40 processor.

Top of the range at the moment I believe.

Specificially the HP NX6125 notebook using it.

[kkengvibul]

I was also looking at that model of HP...but the thing is there's only ML-32 in Thailand.

[francois]

I'm not sure whether its 256 x 2..or just the one 512MB...

anyone know?

hi'

sorry, no, but if you can get a 2x512 in dual channel

francois

[kkengvibul]

I've done more research for an Intel Core Duo processor laptop and here are two brands i came across.

HP Pavilion Notebook dv1620TN

Processor : Centrino™ Core Duo T2300 (1.66GHz, FSB 667MHz)

L2 Cache : 2MB

Memory : 512MB DDR2-333

Harddisk : 60GB Hard Drive 5400rpm SATA

CD-ROM : 24x24x24x CD-RW/ 8x DVD Combo Drive,6-in-1 Media Reader

Fax/Modem/LAN : 10/100 LAN Ethernet, high speed 56K modem, 802.11b/g Wireless LAN, Bluetooth

Video/Audio/Graphics(expandable) : Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 upto 128MB share vRAM

Display/Monitor : 14.0" WXGA (1280 x 768) High-definition BrightView Widescreen LCD panel

Battery : 6-Cell LilON Battery

OS : Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition

Weight : 2.44 kg

warranty : International warranty 1 year

Price: 53,900 baht exc. VAT

Compaq Presario V2620TN

- Intel Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz FSB667

- Windows XP Home

- 256MB DDR2-333 Ram, 80GB Hard Drive SATA

- DVD-RW Drive, 6 in 1 Media Reader

- 14” WXGA Brightview Widescreen LCD

- 802.11b/g Wireless LAN , Bluetooth

- Weight 2.44kg.

- Limited Warranty 1 Year

Price: 53,900 exc. VAT

I couldn't find a more detailed spec of the Compaq.....but so far how does these two look? (also compared to the Acer (core duo) mentioned above?

Is there a big difference between the DDR2-333 and DDR2-533?

Thanks again guys!

[Firefoxx]

The Acers usually come with 512x1... that's what mine came with. I simply removed it and replaced it with 2 1GB modules.

Compared with the Acers, the HP has slower memory, less HDD space, no DVD writer, lousy graphics, but has Windows XP Home (which I wouldn't use anyways... XP Pro is preferred).

The Compaq has less+slower memory, lousy graphics, and also comes with Win XP Home.

Both are slightly heavier than the Acer (a non-issue). No mention of a IEEE1394 (firewire) port on either.

Personally, I've always seen Acer models to have better value, ie more bang for the buck.

[kkengvibul]

i guess i wont have to look any further then!...Acer seems to be the best choice for its quality and value for money...

Cant wait till i get my new laptop!

thanks ppl!

ps. How much would a decent 1GB RAM cost? What brands do you recommend?(for the Acer duo core)

Edited March 16, 2006 by kkengvibul

[Firefoxx]

According to Hardware House (and they have standard prices found in most Pantip stores), 1GB of Kingston DDR2 533 memory costs 4454 baht. Also according to Hardware House, 1GB of Apacer DDR2 533 memory costs 3692 baht. A significant difference. If you go and try to buy the memory from them, they'll go on about "no, Kingston is better, Apacer has problems", but this is pretty much bull. Why? Apacer *is* Acer's memory business, and Acer naturally approves Apacer memory for use with its notebooks. You'll have to go to Hardware House's notebook store to get this memory (Hardware House has multiple stores in IT Mall and Pantip, some sell computers, some sell notebooks). For IT Mall, it's located on the 4th floor near Bookchest, or 3rd floor next to the big exhibition area. Near the 3rd floor HH store is a Memory Today store which sells Transcend 1GB modules for 4146 baht.

There is no overclocking on these notebooks, so getting an ultra-performing high-grade module is not necessary. Again, Apacer is good enough, and cheap to boot. I've used them with no trouble whatsoever. Of course bring the notebook right to the store and have them install it. Usually, the place you buy the notebook will overcharge you for a RAM upgrade.

If you're going to use it for intensive video/photo/multimedia/multitasking, I recommend getting 2 1GB modules. If not, then get 1 512MB modules to complement the existing one for a total of 1GB.

[Phil Conners]

I have the previous model of the Acer Travelmate (single core, 1.6GHz pentium mobile), had it for about a year and very happy with it. Would buy the dual core version if I needed to upgrade now. Would probably throw in another 512M or 1G RAM.

[kkengvibul]

im thinking about getting a 1GB ram to add on with the provided 512mb...

since me and some of my other friends are buying a laptop at the Commart..maybe we could ask them for a discount or something.

[Firefoxx]

I don't see why you would need to wait for the exibition to buy... usually, there aren't any worthwhile deals or discounts.

Also remember that notebook prices are a bit different from the norm... their advertised price does not include VAT, yet most stores will require that you pay VAT. OTOH, most stores will give you a small discount... but in the end, the final price is still more than the sticker price.

Edited March 16, 2006 by Firefoxx

[kkengvibul]

well..i dont think it hurts to wait for the exhibition because its not like i need the laptop right at this moment. I'm also aware that the price still does not include VAT...but surely the price can't be any higher at the exhibition right? And maybe...they might give me some free stuff along witht the laptop. After all, its an exhibition...there should be something special about it......at least thats what i think.

[The Coder]

Turion had a lot of promise because it has a lower power envelope than the Centrinu CPU's. But theory and reality can be different. The fact is, you have to look athe the whole laptop, not just the CPU and Centrino has been blowing away Turion laptops on battery life because they tune all their components very nicely; having a slightly conservative graphics chipset can pay big gains in battery life. The other thing is Centrino has better power management; it will reduce the L2 cache from 2MB down to 32KB in order to save power; Turion always powers its entire L2 cache. So while on paper Turion looked good in power consumption specs, real world Centrino wins.

Likewise, dual core is great in theory, but there were a lot of confused people when dual core arrived because it was slower and ran hotter than single core. Why? Because they couldn't run two cores as fast as one due to heat problems. Because benchmarks showed single core beating dual core, people scrambled to create new benchmarks to show the POTENTIAL of dual core, but it's typically hypothetical, not real world. In fact, even today's high end gamers use single core because it is faster than dual core! Typical PC users and extreme power hungry applications get better performance from single core. It remains to be seen how new software and PC usage will change to tilt the balance.

The problem with buying an Intel laptop is you will NEVER, EVER be able to install and run 64-bit Windows or 64-bit applications. Let's face it, within 5 years we will all be running 64-bit software. For me, computers are lasting longer than ever so 64-bit is a crucial feature in any system I buy.

Note AMD will have dual core turion next quarter. Intel will have 64-bit Centrino next year. So be careful about listening to Intel's propoganda that 64-bit doesn't matter. It's only because they are so far behind that they are saying this.

Buying a Centrino or Turion system can be an appropriate decision based on your needs.

[kkengvibul]

So are you saying that if i buy the Intel Core Duo processor, within 5 years I won't be able to use any of the new 64 bit applications? (i basically would have to continue using the 32 bit applications?)

And also, wouldn't a new laptop now be obsolete within 3 years anyways? Now I'm getting really confused about which one I should buy.

I'll probably use the laptop for some word processing, going online, playing games (not those graphic-intensive games), and some photo editing work (not much though)...

And one more problem about the AMD Turion is that the processor is slower and the ram can only be upgraded to 2GB, as opposed to the 4GB of the Intel DUal core.

Any suggestions now? (sorry for all these stupid questions!)

[Florin]

Turion had a lot of promise because it has a lower power envelope than the Centrinu CPU's. But theory and reality can be different. The fact is, you have to look athe the whole laptop, not just the CPU and Centrino has been blowing away Turion laptops on battery life because they tune all their components very nicely; having a slightly conservative graphics chipset can pay big gains in battery life. The other thing is Centrino has better power management; it will reduce the L2 cache from 2MB down to 32KB in order to save power; Turion always powers its entire L2 cache. So while on paper Turion looked good in power consumption specs, real world Centrino wins.

Likewise, dual core is great in theory, but there were a lot of confused people when dual core arrived because it was slower and ran hotter than single core. Why? Because they couldn't run two cores as fast as one due to heat problems. Because benchmarks showed single core beating dual core, people scrambled to create new benchmarks to show the POTENTIAL of dual core, but it's typically hypothetical, not real world. In fact, even today's high end gamers use single core because it is faster than dual core! Typical PC users and extreme power hungry applications get better performance from single core. It remains to be seen how new software and PC usage will change to tilt the balance.

The problem with buying an Intel laptop is you will NEVER, EVER be able to install and run 64-bit Windows or 64-bit applications. Let's face it, within 5 years we will all be running 64-bit software. For me, computers are lasting longer than ever so 64-bit is a crucial feature in any system I buy.

Note AMD will have dual core turion next quarter. Intel will have 64-bit Centrino next year. So be careful about listening to Intel's propoganda that 64-bit doesn't matter. It's only because they are so far behind that they are saying this.

Buying a Centrino or Turion system can be an appropriate decision based on your needs.

Assuming the laptop is kept and still desired within 5 years, the 32 bit apps will still do a very good job for all daily tasks...64 bit is necessary for future large RAM size support and such, it's definitely the way of the future, but the far-away future for the everyday user.

[kkengvibul]

Florin, so you are suggesting that i should opt for the Intel Dual core?

Since you said that the new applications will require large ram size support, the AMD Turion would not be a good choice because it has a max RAM of only 2gb

[Florin]

Yes, most definitely right now the dual-core is much better to have than the 64-bit support...I mean, for God's sake, you're going to be USING this computer for the next few years, who cares what will come after?

[kkengvibul]

yeah exactly! good point!

[Firefoxx]

I think the word here is "promise"... promise of 64-bit apps, promise of 64-bit-only operation, promise of a lot of memory. As pointed out, these will probably come to a head in a few years, but you're using the notebook now, instead of in a few years, when you'll be buying a new notebook (probably a dual-core 64-bit one).

As for whether dual core is actually any good or not, it's been shown on many many sites that it does do you good in multitasking... in fact, a *lot* of good. And it'll do that today. Heck, I have a hyperthreading CPU, and it's only pseudo-dual-core, and it helps noticeably. And hey, AMD's coming out with a dual-core Turion, right? So... is that important or not?

Of course, again, it's up to the buyer. Let's not get into a heated argument over who's got the better cpu.

[kkengvibul]

Alright..thanks for all the help guys!

[The Coder]

Circa 2007 is seen as the end of Microsoft releasing 32-bit apps. Vista will have 32-bit editions, but perhaps not the next Windows after that. The upcoming Office will have 32-bit editions, but perhaps not after that. So with Centrino you can continue to run the latest for probably one more generation, but it is shaping up that you won't be able to upgrade to "the latest" anymore after that. So think about yourself--are you the type that today runs XP SP2 with the latest packs or are you happy with good old Windows 98 SE or Windows 2000? The other thing is resale value. If you go to sell a 32-bit laptop in 4 years, people may not want it if they are limited to old 32-bit apps that aren't sold anymore (this happened before with 286 machines that sold for like $10 for a palette of them because they couldn't run any of the latest stuff anymore). But then again will something 4 years slower be too slow for new apps? Also, "apps" may gradually not be so important as more things move to be web based.

More cores are what we can expect in the future. What I am saying is don't let it fool you into thinking you are getting something twice as fast when it might be worse performance. Below are things to think about when choosing a laptop:

1. Expansion: can it run 64-bit apps? 32-bit may be limiting if you plan on keeping it a long time. What is the max RAM? 2GB may be sub-optimal in 4 years.

2. bells and whistles: lcd quality, blue tooth, card readers, hard drive, dvd, etc

3. performance: whenever possible, look at benchmarks for things important to you, not how many cores, gigahertz rating, graphics chipset, etc.

4. battery life: look at 3rd party reviews where possible, not cpu power consumption ratings or manufacturer claims.

5. warranty

6. size/weight

7. price: cost to buy, resale value

As I stated before, I don't think there is a one size fits all choice of CPU. Personally, I like 64-bits and run 64-bit Windows already. The nice thing is when you switch to 64-bits you get a free performance increase because data can be crunched in bigger bites plus there are more cpu registers. I noticed a quicker boot when I switched to 64-bit even though I didn't expect that part to really improve (and I am comparing stock fresh installed 32-bit windows vs stock 64-bit). Still I totally understand why Centrino is the best choice for many and afterall it is the biggest seller today.

Edited March 17, 2006 by The Coder

[kkengvibul]

considering from what you've said..i think i would still go for the Intel processor.

anyways..thanks for your views THe Coder!

[kkengvibul]

Acer Aspire 5024NWLMi

AMD Turion 64 ML-34 (1.8GHz, 1MB L2 Cache)

ATI Radeon Xpress 200m chipset

Wirless LAN IEEE 802.11b/g

Integrated Bluetooth

512MB DDR-RAM (MAX 2 GB)

100 GB HDD, Weight 3.07kg

DVD DUAL DOuble Layer, 6-in-1 card reader

56k fax/modem, 10/100/1000MBPs LAN

15.4" WXGA ACER Crystalbrite TFT LCD (1280 x 800 pixel) S-video out

ATI MObility Radeon X100 128mb

LI-Ion battery (avg 3 hrs)

IEEE 1394 Port, infrared port

Acer SignalUP wirelesst technology support

Linpus Linux BE

1 year Int. Warraty

PRICED AT 49,900 baht exc. VAT

is there only one slot for the DDR RAM? or 2?