Chalerm's car inspected; DSI set to charge two suspects over super car scam

[khunken]

"the" people do not jump to conclusions. They know that the rich and politicians are dishonest and never pay their fair share. They have seen that thaksin was punished for something all rich people do. So they reached the conclusion a long time ago that if someone is caught it is because he or she is made a scapegoat so their scam can live on forever.

TV's usual troll making the usual wacky comments.

Thaksin wasn't punished for something 'all rich people do' - he was convicted for a conflict of interest. Many Thais were happy to see a rich hi-so politician finally face justice. Scapegoats here are almost always poor people who don't have the money or connections to get fair justice.

The Op seems like the predictions of some scapegoats being found for the car import scam are coming true. It is good, however, to see Tarit being forced (by publicity) to have his boss's car inspected.

[rubl]

Tarit said he was looking into the matter of Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung's Rolls-Royce. Its value had reportedly been shown at only US$70,000 (Bt2.15 million).

He said it was the Customs Department's job to investigate whether price declarations were false or not.

OK, anyone know where I can pick up a car now at less than 1/15th of it's real value? I'm in the market . . .

A few days ago Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm made remarks on a friend of a son has just parked some cars at his plot, cars which were mortgaged or whatever. Maybe k. Chalerm paid of the mortgage and got the car cheaply

[rubl]

Right now on thaicar.com there is a Rolls Royce for sale at 2.1 million baht. Rolls are like any other car in that the value can vary dramatically depending on condition, age and mechanical integrity. I don't know anything about the Rolls in question, but the statement that the value can vary is correct, and you cannot assume that just because it's a Rolls that it's therefore incorrectly valued.

The Rolls you refer to is close to 20 years old - 2.1 Mil is quite a lot for such an old vehicle. Chalerm is not driving a 20 year old Rolls - He's got a late model valued at over 25. I can and shall assume it's incorrectly valued.

They made a mistake and left out a '0'

Chalerm didnt realize it was a mistake because his secretary paid on his behalf.

It's his car. Not noticing a typo on an official paper is no excuse for using said paper. Ask Abhisit.

Edited June 20, 2013 by rubl

[webfact]

UPDATE:
Suspects in luxurycar racket surrender to police
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Nareunart Kuansawat and Thanan Kuansawat, suspected of involvement in the trade of highend cars modified to avoid taxes, surrendered themselves Thursday to police.

Tarit Pengdith, chief of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), said there was strong evidence to suggest the duo were investors behind the six imported highend cars that mysteriously caught fire in Nakhon Ratchasima.

However, the two men denied all charges and told DSI investigators that they were in the housing estate property business. They declined to give any testimony about the luxury cars, gas receipts, or about their relationship with the owner of the transportation company responsible for transporting the vehicles.

Posting Bt2 million for their bail, the duo said they would submit documents to the DSI on June 28 at 1pm to back their testimony. Investigators initially released the two without asking for bail, but the duo insisted on posting Bt2 million in order to show their sincerity.

-- The Nation 2013-06-20

[Tatsujin]

The plot thickens . . . these 2 aren't gonna roll over so easily it seems so Chalerm and the DSI are gonna need another scapegoat who won't fight back.

[Tatsujin]

It is quite obvious that the foreigners of TVF who are whinging the loudest and making the nastiest comments haven't the slightest clue about the vehicle and are using this as a means to engage in idiotic allegations and a smear campaign.

No one has offered an intelligent argument to support his allegation that the DPM avoided paying tax.

Look at the uncontested facts of the case, that even the most vociferous of critics do not dispute and that have been reported in the anti government holy journal, the Nation.

- The vehicle is a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost.

- The amount recorded as paid was 26million baht.

Now look at the facts.

The vehicle is described by the manufacturer as its entry level Rolls Royce. It is the lowest cost Rolls.

- The list price for a 2010 Ghost was approx. $240,000. (It was $246,500 for the 2011 model year. ) Usually a minimum discount of 5-10% can be obtained with a greater discount obtained depending upon the time of purchase and if the purchaser has other vehicles. Let's say the list price was $246,500 . The purchase price would be 7,400,00 baht.

- The tax rate, depending upon the type of vehicle is between 200 and 314%. Let's say the 314% tax rate was used. That would make the purchase price approx. 23,200,000 baht.

The documented purchase price that no one has contested is 26million baht. That suggests that, there may have been some options purchased such the goat hide carpets etc. However, the purchase price is compatible with the vehicle MRSP without discounts, with tax at 314% and under the most conservative of pricing conditions.

If my math is incorrect please show me. If you cannot disprove the numbers and you cannot disprove the documented payment that even the critics are not denying, then why make the unfounded allegations?

One of his cars is a new model Bentley Continental GT . . . the pink one. Whichever one of the luxury cars we are talking about however, he didn't even come close to spending 1/10th of the real cost of the vehicle.

[webfact]

UPDATE:

Two owners of burnt luxury cars surrender to DSI
By Digital Media



BANGKOK, June 20 -- Two suspects allegedly involved in tax evasion for four luxury cars burnt in a fire in Nakhon Ratchasima reported to the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) today, but denied all charges.

Pol Lt Col Wannapong Kotcharag, DSI deputy director general, said the agency charged Nareunart and Thanan Kuansawat after evidence and witnesses allegedly linked the pair to the trade of high-end cars that were improperly taxed.

Both denied all charges and refused to give any statement to investigators today but would prepare documents and meet the DSI officials again June 28.

The charges against them including smuggling vehicles that have not passed customs, falsely declaring the car type with intent to avoid paying the proper tax rate, concealing the cars and selling them, and transporting the cars without permission.

The DSI did not demand bail bond as the two men surrendered voluntarily, but the two put up Bt2 million cash as collateral in surety that they would not escape.

Col Wannapong said the pair told investigators that they were running housing estate business and refused to answer questions related to the connection between them and the owner of a trailer truck, the trailer truck driver and the luxury cars.

Altogether six cars were being transported on a trailer truck, but only four burnt in a fire, the cause of which has not been determined on May 29 at Pak Chong district, en route to Si Sa Ket -- including a Lambogini, a Bentley, a BMW and a Mercedes Benz sedan. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-06-20

[mrtoad]

฿2.1 millian for a Rolls Royce ?

Chalem certainly knows how to get a good deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He keeps his ears close tot he ground on good deals, and with all that ear medicine his ears are pretty clear

[geriatrickid]

฿2.1 millian for a Rolls Royce ?

Chalem certainly knows how to get a good deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He paid 26million baht.

He is saying that he estimates his car is probably worth 2.1 million now. These are 2 separate and distinct issues.

The first is in respect to tax law compliance. If the DPM had paid 2.1 billion he would have most likely engaged in tax evasion. He paid 26 million.

The second has no validity and is a red herring of no relevance. It is the value that he thinks the market will give on his vehicle.

[geriatrickid]

฿2.1 millian for a Rolls Royce ?

Chalem certainly knows how to get a good deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He keeps his ears close tot he ground on good deals, and with all that ear medicine his ears are pretty clear

Are you confused or are you intentionally distorting the facts?

There was no transaction at 2.1million baht, nor did the DPM make such a claim. You know that don't you?

[bigbamboo]

UPDATE:

Two owners of burnt luxury cars surrender to DSI

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, June 20 -- Two suspects allegedly involved in tax evasion for four luxury cars burnt in a fire in Nakhon Ratchasima reported to the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) today, but denied all charges.

Pol Lt Col Wannapong Kotcharag, DSI deputy director general, said the agency charged Nareunart and Thanan Kuansawat after evidence and witnesses allegedly linked the pair to the trade of high-end cars that were improperly taxed.

Both denied all charges and refused to give any statement to investigators today but would prepare documents and meet the DSI officials again June 28.

The charges against them including smuggling vehicles that have not passed customs, falsely declaring the car type with intent to avoid paying the proper tax rate, concealing the cars and selling them, and transporting the cars without permission.

The DSI did not demand bail bond as the two men surrendered voluntarily, but the two put up Bt2 million cash as collateral in surety that they would not escape.

Col Wannapong said the pair told investigators that they were running housing estate business and refused to answer questions related to the connection between them and the owner of a trailer truck, the trailer truck driver and the luxury cars.

Altogether six cars were being transported on a trailer truck, but only four burnt in a fire, the cause of which has not been determined on May 29 at Pak Chong district, en route to Si Sa Ket -- including a Lambogini, a Bentley, a BMW and a Mercedes Benz sedan. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-06-20

Looking forward to see how the negotiations....sorry, investigations....proceed in this fascinating case.

[ableguy]

Chalerm will be legitimate of course - but what will really hurt him is that the DSI had the audacity to investigate him. That will hurt Chalerm's ego for sure.

He now says he only paid $70,000 for a new rolls, yesterday he said it did not belong to him but a friend in Singapore, mean while the customs say he paid all the taxes on it, This tosser should be in yhe bkk hilton along with his sons.

[rubl]

฿2.1 millian for a Rolls Royce ?

Chalem certainly knows how to get a good deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He paid 26million baht.

He is saying that he estimates his car is probably worth 2.1 million now. These are 2 separate and distinct issues.

The first is in respect to tax law compliance. If the DPM had paid 2.1 billion he would have most likely engaged in tax evasion. He paid 26 million.

The second has no validity and is a red herring of no relevance. It is the value that he thinks the market will give on his vehicle.

If Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm's three year old Rolls-Royce for which he allegedly paid 26 million has only value 2.15 million now there are a few possibilities

1. The yearly depreciation value of a Rolls-Royce is horrendous

2. k. Chalerm has been ripped off.

3. The current value is higher.

4. k. Chalerm paid less than the amount quoted but he just wanted to show off

5. Someone is lying

Knowing Roll-Royce vehicles my bet would be on 1. of course

[Thai at Heart]

Chalerm will be legitimate of course - but what will really hurt him is that the DSI had the audacity to investigate him. That will hurt Chalerm's ego for sure.

He now says he only paid $70,000 for a new rolls, yesterday he said it did not belong to him but a friend in Singapore, mean while the customs say he paid all the taxes on it, This tosser should be in yhe bkk hilton along with his sons.

This will be lost in translation that he took on the finance.

[steveromagnino]

No one has offered an intelligent argument to support his allegation that the DPM avoided paying tax.

Look at the uncontested facts of the case, that even the most vociferous of critics do not dispute and that have been reported in the anti government holy journal, the Nation.

- The vehicle is a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost.

- The amount recorded as paid was 26million baht.

Now look at the facts.

The vehicle is described by the manufacturer as its entry level Rolls Royce. It is the lowest cost Rolls.

- The list price for a 2010 Ghost was approx. $240,000. (It was $246,500 for the 2011 model year. ) Usually a minimum discount of 5-10% can be obtained with a greater discount obtained depending upon the time of purchase and if the purchaser has other vehicles. Let's say the list price was $246,500 . The purchase price would be 7,400,00 baht.

- The tax rate, depending upon the type of vehicle is between 200 and 314%. Let's say the 314% tax rate was used. That would make the purchase price approx. 23,200,000 baht.

The documented purchase price that no one has contested is 26million baht. That suggests that, there may have been some options purchased such the goat hide carpets etc. However, the purchase price is compatible with the vehicle MRSP without discounts, with tax at 314% and under the most conservative of pricing conditions.

If my math is incorrect please show me. If you cannot disprove the numbers and you cannot disprove the documented payment that even the critics are not denying, then why make the unfounded allegations?

Purchase price is around 170,000pounds ($240k USD after discount) let's use your 7.4m baht.

We then have import costs and shipping so it will end up say an even 7.5m baht CIF, a container shipment of the car would be at a minimum 100k and maybe he didn't ship it this way, perhaps he shipped it as oversize in a custom pallet wrapped so probably more like 300k in shipping.

CIF

* Import Duty (80%)

* Excise tax (50%X(CIF+import duty)

* Interior tax (which is 10% of the calculated excise tax value)

* VAT (7%)

This is approximately duty/VAT of 23.5m baht based on the purchase price, which is already something a little questionable, since customs are able to assess based on their own calculated value, and would likely choose to estimate what they wished as many others have discovered; it is a SUBJECTIVE not OBJECTIVE measure.

The purchase price is 7.5m baht + 23.5m = 31m minimum using 314% and the reality is the real calculation should be higher than 314% from my understanding. Based on your assumptions (for the most part), we are looking at some number somewhat lower than this as the 'claimed' price. My guess is some creative invoicing and the right person was paid to not ask a question, just as grey market importers handle things.

As we know this is a custom paint job, for example, probably done in RR prior to delivery, one might guess that the car has more than a few options and so the initial assumption on price is already lower than what it should be.

One might ask why he didn't just purchase the car from Rolls Royce dealer in Thailand, but of course, back in 2010, there wasn't an official one, so it's not a fair question; I also would question whether he needs a car like this for his job, but as a personal choice it is his right to have a car provided we as the tax payer aren't funding it.

If we cannot ask questions of our deputy PM, then democracy is seriously in trouble, especially given the numerous questionable activities of this family and their unwillingness to ever take responsibility for any of them. The Club 20 incident being one.

If he is innocent, he should have no problem declaring every car his family owns, with a check of each one; that would seriously silence his critics. Why do you think he won't do this?

Edited June 20, 2013 by steveromagnino

[Thai at Heart]

No one has offered an intelligent argument to support his allegation that the DPM avoided paying tax.

Look at the uncontested facts of the case, that even the most vociferous of critics do not dispute and that have been reported in the anti government holy journal, the Nation.

- The vehicle is a 2010 Rolls Royce Ghost.

- The amount recorded as paid was 26million baht.

Now look at the facts.

The vehicle is described by the manufacturer as its entry level Rolls Royce. It is the lowest cost Rolls.

- The list price for a 2010 Ghost was approx. $240,000. (It was $246,500 for the 2011 model year. ) Usually a minimum discount of 5-10% can be obtained with a greater discount obtained depending upon the time of purchase and if the purchaser has other vehicles. Let's say the list price was $246,500 . The purchase price would be 7,400,00 baht.

- The tax rate, depending upon the type of vehicle is between 200 and 314%. Let's say the 314% tax rate was used. That would make the purchase price approx. 23,200,000 baht.

The documented purchase price that no one has contested is 26million baht. That suggests that, there may have been some options purchased such the goat hide carpets etc. However, the purchase price is compatible with the vehicle MRSP without discounts, with tax at 314% and under the most conservative of pricing conditions.

If my math is incorrect please show me. If you cannot disprove the numbers and you cannot disprove the documented payment that even the critics are not denying, then why make the unfounded allegations?

Purchase price is around 170,000pounds ($240k USD after discount) let's use your 7.4m baht.

We then have import costs and shipping so it will end up say an even 7.5m baht CIF, a container shipment of the car would be at a minimum 100k and maybe he didn't ship it this way, perhaps he shipped it as oversize in a custom pallet wrapped so probably more like 300k in shipping.

CIF

* Import Duty (80%)

* Excise tax (50%X(CIF+import duty)

* Interior tax (which is 10% of the calculated excise tax value)

* VAT (7%)

This is approximately duty/VAT of 23.5m baht based on the purchase price, which is already something a little questionable, since customs are able to assess based on their own calculated value, and would likely choose to estimate what they wished as many others have discovered; it is a SUBJECTIVE not OBJECTIVE measure.

The purchase price is 7.5m baht + 23.5m = 31m minimum using 314% and the reality is the real calculation should be higher than 314% from my understanding. Based on your assumptions (for the most part), we are looking at some number somewhat lower than this as the 'claimed' price. My guess is some creative invoicing and the right person was paid to not ask a question, just as grey market importers handle things.

As we know this is a custom paint job, for example, probably done in RR prior to delivery, one might guess that the car has more than a few options and so the initial assumption on price is already lower than what it should be.

One might ask why he didn't just purchase the car from Rolls Royce dealer in Thailand, but of course, back in 2010, there wasn't an official one, so it's not a fair question; I also would question whether he needs a car like this for his job, but as a personal choice it is his right to have a car provided we as the tax payer aren't funding it.

If we cannot ask questions of our deputy PM, then democracy is seriously in trouble, especially given the numerous questionable activities of this family and their unwillingness to ever take responsibility for any of them. The Club 20 incident being one.

If he is innocent, he should have no problem declaring every car his family owns, with a check of each one; that would seriously silence his critics. Why do you think he won't do this?

One trick that is always used is to add all of the options.

They use glass's guide to estimate the value, but they rarely if ever know the value of the extras.

Not that it changes the calculation that much, but it is probably feasible to put 40k GBP extras in a rolls Royce.

Drinks cabinets etc

[Thai at Heart]

Just saw the report on the TV news.

The missus picked up the most obvious thing that some may miss.

He sat in the back, and opened the door of supposedly his own chauffeur driven luxury people carrier.

A complete and utter set up.

[aussieinthailand]

HIS rolls Royce is priced at $70,000, WOT THE??? tell me were I can get one????

NEW 2013 roll Royce price are:

Rolls Royce Ghost $246500- $290000

Rolls Royce Phantom $395970- $470295

Rolls Royce Phantom coup $429295- $469900.

so please again were can I get a $70,000 rolls???

[gemini81]

UPDATE:

Two owners of burnt luxury cars surrender to DSI

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, June 20 -- Two suspects allegedly involved in tax evasion for four luxury cars burnt in a fire in Nakhon Ratchasima reported to the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) today, but denied all charges.

Pol Lt Col Wannapong Kotcharag, DSI deputy director general, said the agency charged Nareunart and Thanan Kuansawat after evidence and witnesses allegedly linked the pair to the trade of high-end cars that were improperly taxed.

Both denied all charges and refused to give any statement to investigators today but would prepare documents and meet the DSI officials again June 28.

The charges against them including smuggling vehicles that have not passed customs, falsely declaring the car type with intent to avoid paying the proper tax rate, concealing the cars and selling them, and transporting the cars without permission.

The DSI did not demand bail bond as the two men surrendered voluntarily, but the two put up Bt2 million cash as collateral in surety that they would not escape.

Col Wannapong said the pair told investigators that they were running housing estate business and refused to answer questions related to the connection between them and the owner of a trailer truck, the trailer truck driver and the luxury cars.

Altogether six cars were being transported on a trailer truck, but only four burnt in a fire, the cause of which has not been determined on May 29 at Pak Chong district, en route to Si Sa Ket -- including a Lambogini, a Bentley, a BMW and a Mercedes Benz sedan. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-06-20

Glad he found two guys to pay and intimidate from the real estate business to take the fall for smuggling and to share the limelight; ought to divert attention for a non-thinking majority about his Rolls Royce deception. His claims and the assessed value show he is just cheating again.

This man is at the heart of the dirtiest business here and has been for long.

Hope his opponents put some heat under him & don't forget to do their homework on this one....

Edited June 21, 2013 by gemini81

[Payboy]

Tarit said he was looking into the matter and urged people not to jump to conclusions.

He said the grey market had both legal and illegal sections and same-model cars bought from different dealers could vary in price, as it was a free market.

Surely, he means flea market.

[mrtoad]

One of these days Chalerm is finally going to get his comeuppance, but while his party is still in power it's unlikely for the foreseeable. A disgusting individual really.

[Sayonarax]

Right now on thaicar.com there is a Rolls Royce for sale at 2.1 million baht. Rolls are like any other car in that the value can vary dramatically depending on condition, age and mechanical integrity. I don't know anything about the Rolls in question, but the statement that the value can vary is correct, and you cannot assume that just because it's a Rolls that it's therefore incorrectly value frd.

lol that's some thorough research ya did..

[bubba]

Somehow, this doesn't look like a 2.1M baht Rolls.

[Payboy]

Somehow, this doesn't look like a 2.1M baht Rolls.

The license plate number alone is a bulk of that.