Looking For Jeep-type Size Of Vehicle - Good Value

[Steve2UK]

I'm looking to buy a jeep-type vehicle - that's to say jeep in terms of size and driving position i.e. higher than in a saloon car. Suzuki Caribian would suit except that it is seriously underpowered and crawls up even a slight hill. Jeep Wrangler - very nice but presumably very expensive if it's available at all? Put another way - what smaller/compact value-for-money SUV's are available in LOS? I prefer to buy new but I'd go for a used vehicle in good condition if the model is no longer available new.

I'm not that bothered with serious off-road capability - this will be mainly for city (Chiang Mai) and general road travel.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions .

[terdsak_12]

Have a look at a Kia Sportage, not bad value SUVs. Wranglers are around, but well over 1 million for a 2002ish model.

[Steve2UK]

Have a look at a Kia Sportage, not bad value SUVs. Wranglers are around, but well over 1 million for a 2002ish model.

Many thanks Terdsak - very interesting suggestion. A tad bigger than I had been thinking (e.g. Rav 4) but nothing like the usual SUV (IMO) monsters - and that's more than made up for by the equipment, specs and loading versatility etc. Generally high ratings from journalist and user reviews - particularly in value-for-money terms.

I just tried googling to find a Kia dealership in LOS with no success - are there any? Also - any idea of Thai prices? Diesel 2.0 XE or XS manual looks tempting - but then so does the gasoline 2.7.........

Certainly keeps me away from CR-V's and Fortuners...........

[Gary A]

You're right, the Suzuki is underpowered but if you can find a fuel injected Vitara engine to put in the Suzuki jeep you will have more than enough power. The standard engine is 1.3 liter and the Vitara is 1.6 liter. If you would want to go that way it would be better to find the Vitara engine first. There are not too many around. There are MANY Suzuki jeeps available. Off road magazines recommend a Volkswagen conversion but they are not based in Thailand. Adapters and probably the engine would most likely have to be imported.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Gary A

[terdsak_12]

A decent 1999/2000 Kia should be around 250-300,000 Baht which is excellent value, reason, they're cheap is they're Korean so not popular with locals, and can be pricey to fix at the local Kia dealership, best to find a local garage that can get parts and knows how to maintain them.

The Vitara is painfully slow, but better than the Awful Carrabean.

[bino]

How about a CRV?

[terdsak_12]

Pricier. 500-600,000 Baht for a 2000/1 ish model.

[Steve2UK]

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions so far.

A decently re-engined Caribian would be ideal - if it provided the necessary power/acceleration. I want the vehicle to be both tough enough to give some reasonable protection in a collision and have enough acceleration available to get me out of other drivers' way and overtake safely etc. Needless to say, the Caribian is positively dangerous in the second respect - quite apart from being overall annoyingly slow in just about every situation from flat street to even a slight hill. I'd really appreciate input from anyone else who has experience of what's achievable with a replacement engine.

Kia Sportage still looks very inviting - though I'd prefer to get a later model (if not new) than 1999/2000 . Potential downside is that all the dealerships (judging by info from the Kia website) seem to be in BKK/Pathumthanee - quite a stretch from Chiang Mai......... unless anybody knows of one closer to CM? I don't mind going the distance to buy it (particularly if it's new), but I'm thinking about what happens after that. If I can identify a good CM garage/workshop that can see it through warranty and beyond, then maybe it's still the best option.

First impressions of the CR-V are that it's not very sturdy - apart from being bigger than I really need or prefer. Fortuner seems more sturdy but looks to be even bigger than the CR-V.

Overall, I'm amazed that there doesn't seem to be more choice of tough, compact vehicles in Thailand - given the variable state of roads, range of terrain etc. But then, I'm amazed that Suzuki only put the pathetic 1.3 engine in such a heavy body with those gear ratios .

BTW - when I say "good value", I don't necessarily mean cheap as in 250-300,000. I'm ready to pay more to get what I want - just has to be worth it. I couldn't care less about making a style statement with what I drive - I just want it to do and be what I need (tough, compact and with enough power when required).

Edited April 7, 2006 by Steve2UK

[teej]

Another suggestion: Maybe consider a 4-door pickup truck? Not too large, but has some room inside for your bits and pieces, and imo tough enough for the northern thailand terrain. In addition, there are many on the 2nd-hand market, and certains brands will have service centers aplenty, aka not too costly to maintain. Dunno bout prices, terdsak would prob be the one to ask.

Just my 2cents...

teej

[Steve2UK]

Another suggestion: Maybe consider a 4-door pickup truck? Not too large, but has some room inside for your bits and pieces, and imo tough enough for the northern thailand terrain. In addition, there are many on the 2nd-hand market, and certains brands will have service centers aplenty, aka not too costly to maintain. Dunno bout prices, terdsak would prob be the one to ask.

Just my 2cents...

teej

Thanks for the suggestion, teej. Nothing against pick-ups in principle (they're generally sturdy enough and most have decent power) - but I think 4-doors plus the "cargo" space makes them as big as the monster SUV's I'm trying to avoid. A nifty 2-door pick-up might do at a pinch - as well as being cheaper taxwise - but I'm still aiming for something more compact.

[kasi]

Since you haven't given what price range you are looking in it's difficult to give any advice.

The sponsor of this sub-forum has a nice site with much practical information.

I personally like the suzuki caribeans. They are cheap and tough. They are underpowered and uncomfortable though.

I noticed a number of old Land Rovers at the dealer in Chiang Mai. Land Rovers make good rigs and can be modified any number of ways to suit your needs. (I drive a highly modified old 109, it's a blast to drive!)

There is also a Land rover restorer outside of Nakon Sawan who could be a valuable resource.

[Plus]

Isuzu Cameo? I occasionally drive past a dealer that still has new ones on display. They were in 500k range last time I asked, about five years ago.

"Good value" might be construed only to be applicable to locally assembled cars due to 80% import taxes.

What do you have in mind, Steve? Are there global models that might interest you?

Thailand has pickups to substitute them all. You want a sedan, estate, off-raoder, or a roadster - get a pickup, extra cab, double cab, whatever, and people in the back can always enjoy the fresh air.

Don't believe that Detroit of Asia shit - the choice is very limited.

[Steve2UK]

Since you haven't given what price range you are looking in it's difficult to give any advice.

The sponsor of this sub-forum has a nice site with much practical information.

I personally like the suzuki caribeans. They are cheap and tough. They are underpowered and uncomfortable though.

I noticed a number of old Land Rovers at the dealer in Chiang Mai. Land Rovers make good rigs and can be modified any number of ways to suit your needs. (I drive a highly modified old 109, it's a blast to drive!)

There is also a Land rover restorer outside of Nakon Sawan who could be a valuable resource.

Fair comment on the price point - apologies for that. I'm thinking up to around 1 million for the right vehicle - i.e. if used it needs to be in great condition (late model?) from a reliable source. It feels like that would cover all the mods I could want to add to a Caribian, so that's something I could explore (I spotted a CM-based 4x4 group with a website http://www.jeepclubcm94.com but it's all in Thai).

Land Rover is a useful thought - though I'd want some creature comforts more than the ability to drive on riverbeds.........

I do keep a regular eye on expatmotors.com and would have gone to at least check out the Kia Sportage they're showing as sold right now - difficult to resist at that price/mileage combination. If that deal is anything to go by, then maybe a new/near new Sportage is gettable........

[Steve2UK]

Isuzu Cameo? I occasionally drive past a dealer that still has new ones on display. They were in 500k range last time I asked, about five years ago.

"Good value" might be construed only to be applicable to locally assembled cars due to 80% import taxes.

What do you have in mind, Steve? Are there global models that might interest you?

Thailand has pickups to substitute them all. You want a sedan, estate, off-raoder, or a roadster - get a pickup, extra cab, double cab, whatever, and people in the back can always enjoy the fresh air.

Don't believe that Detroit of Asia shit - the choice is very limited.

Thanks for the suggestion - but the Cameo still looks bigger than I'd like. Trouble is - I'm a Brit (and a city boy Brit, at that) and I'm just not tuned into what seems to be the standard over-sized (IMO) SUV beloved in the US. And, no, I'm not trying to start a flame war on that subject - just talking personal preferences here.

Ideal size in terms of length/width/capacity is something like the Jeep Wrangler (Safari hardtop) - but, with a (new) base price of 1.83 million THB, that's one h*ll of a premium to pay for the import tax and yuppy style statement factors........... not to mention future fuel bills to feed a thirsty 4.0 litre engine I don't need.

I wish the Suzuki Vitara was still available new rather than just the lame Caribian. In terms of global models - the Toyota Rav 4 and Land Rover Defender 90 spring to mind. Oh - and the Mercedes (Steyr) Benz things that look like Land Rover copies........ but that's the mafia staff car in most of eastern Europe - you usually see them driving around in threes

Maybe the smallest 2-door pick-up with a carry-boy top is the answer......... Otherwise, it's back to either the Sportage or wait for a departing farang to want to sell his Wrangler (and use my motocy more to save on fuel ) .

Edited April 8, 2006 by Steve2UK

[Plus]

All Thai pickups have/had specified length - two door or four door, doesn't matter. Cameo is shorter anyway. I don't know much about it except that it has got benzene, not diesel, engine, 4 WD, and it was popular with off road enthusiasts.

RAV 4 is an equivalent to CRV, but since it's imported it costs 2.6 mil. Used to be 1.6 mil from Toyota ten years ago, new.

Otherwise you can look at Ford Escape (could be under a mil second hand now), or Mazda Tribute - same stuff, different name.

Suzuki is an er... a joke. It's a disgrace. It's the worst that can happen to you. If you get one, go to Pattaya or somewhere they rent them to tourists so you can excuse yourself - there was no choice, Carribean only.

[Digger]

You could also consider a Jeep Grand Cherokee 2001 (newer) model - they are about 1,000,000 baht for a good 2001 model - very nice motor but drinks the gas - loaded with everything.

[Gary A]

Why is the Suzuki Caribbean a joke? That Caribbean was the most fun little vehicle I ever had. It's true that a long distance drive would beat you to death but I made many trips from Bangkok to Roiet with it. Exploring mud roads especially when it was raining was a ball. I found parking places in Bangkok that no other vehicle could get into. Hooking it into four wheel drive and driving over a high curb was my favorite trick. It did lack power but I had a guy re-work the carburetor and had him put a set of headers on it. It didn't gain a lot of power but it sounded like it did. I already have two vehicles or I would find another one to play with. They are a tough little vehicle for sure. Want to buy a big heavy clumsy doggy Toyota four wheel drive?

[suzuki is an er... a joke. It's a disgrace. It's the worst that can happen to you. If you get one, go to Pattaya or somewhere they rent them to tourists so you can excuse yourself - there was no choice, Carribean only.

[teej]

I would have to say that if you're willing to pay up to a million, than it's better to aim a little higher than the carribeans... I've only driven them as rentals (on islands, mostly), and they are by no means a comfortable nor luxurious car... especially if you've got up to a million to spend. With that money, I'd go for a used Grand Cherokee, they have already taken a huge depreciation hit, and you can get a late model Grand for right around a million (like a 2001-2003). Repairs aren't the cheapest, but you're getting a lot of car for the price (relative to other cars in thailand, and it's truly off-road capable, not to knock the fortuner, but I wouldn't put my money on that car surviving real off-road conditions.

You can check out www.one2car.com (can I post links? sorry if I can't)... It's in thai, but i've found that if you just run your mouse over the main header, you will see the english web address in the address bar at the bottom of your browser and you can then 'search by car'... i think it's the fourth or the fifth tab over from the left (in red)... If nothing else, you can at least get an idea of the prices of just about any car sold in thailand. There are tons of cars on that site, mostly 'tent' advertising... I just use it as reference, not necessarily for finding a decent car.

If you're willing to kick in a bit more cash, then I'd recommend the Toyota harrier/Lexus rx300... (not the newest body style)... the old body styles can be had for around 1.2 million i think...

But for a million baht, I'd go with the Jeep Grand Cherokee ... and the 4.7L V8 not the straight 6... not much difference in gas usage (a lot is a lot, plain and simple), but much better/newer engine technology and lots of torque compared to the straight 6. You can even consider the pre-1999 body style for about 500K...

[Plus]

Why is the Suzuki Caribbean a joke? That Caribbean was the most fun little vehicle I ever had. It's true that a long distance drive would beat you to death but I made many trips from Bangkok to Roiet with it. Exploring mud roads especially when it was raining was a ball. I found parking places in Bangkok that no other vehicle could get into. Hooking it into four wheel drive and driving over a high curb was my favorite trick. It did lack power but I had a guy re-work the carburetor and had him put a set of headers on it. It didn't gain a lot of power but it sounded like it did. I already have two vehicles or I would find another one to play with. They are a tough little vehicle for sure. Want to buy a big heavy clumsy doggy Toyota four wheel drive?

[suzuki is an er... a joke. It's a disgrace. It's the worst that can happen to you. If you get one, go to Pattaya or somewhere they rent them to tourists so you can excuse yourself - there was no choice, Carribean only.

Didn't mean to offend.

Everytime I see Carribeans in Bangkok, they always can't keep with the traffic. They are small, true, so fairly easy to overtake on the left or right without even leaving the lane.

What was that story about Carribeans being banned from the US because of high roll-over rates. The best part was that they roll not on the side, but on their backs!

They might be OK for off-roading, but unsuitable for city or highway driving. But they are right price for the size.

Comparing them with Jeeps? Apples and oranges.

[Steve2UK]

I would have to say that if you're willing to pay up to a million, than it's better to aim a little higher than the carribeans... I've only driven them as rentals (on islands, mostly), and they are by no means a comfortable nor luxurious car... especially if you've got up to a million to spend. With that money, I'd go for a used Grand Cherokee, they have already taken a huge depreciation hit, and you can get a late model Grand for right around a million (like a 2001-2003). Repairs aren't the cheapest, but you're getting a lot of car for the price (relative to other cars in thailand, and it's truly off-road capable, not to knock the fortuner, but I wouldn't put my money on that car surviving real off-road conditions.

You can check out www.one2car.com (can I post links? sorry if I can't)... It's in thai, but i've found that if you just run your mouse over the main header, you will see the english web address in the address bar at the bottom of your browser and you can then 'search by car'... i think it's the fourth or the fifth tab over from the left (in red)... If nothing else, you can at least get an idea of the prices of just about any car sold in thailand. There are tons of cars on that site, mostly 'tent' advertising... I just use it as reference, not necessarily for finding a decent car.

If you're willing to kick in a bit more cash, then I'd recommend the Toyota harrier/Lexus rx300... (not the newest body style)... the old body styles can be had for around 1.2 million i think...

But for a million baht, I'd go with the Jeep Grand Cherokee ... and the 4.7L V8 not the straight 6... not much difference in gas usage (a lot is a lot, plain and simple), but much better/newer engine technology and lots of torque compared to the straight 6. You can even consider the pre-1999 body style for about 500K...

Thanks for the further thoughts, teej, Plus and Digger.....

Since my last post, I have already been trawling through one2car.com. As teej says, very good for looking at what's around and get a feel for prices for year/model/spec combinations. That led me to add a late model Suzuki Vitara JLX to my list of possibles - main plus point being that it is fairly compact (just wish I could get a shorter 3-door version). As Sleepyjohn mentioned in another thread, anything much bigger is a pain in the narrow soi's of Chiang Mai and elsewhere not to mention city street parking etc.

As far as spending up to a million, I'm actually trying to avoid "a lot of car" in terms of size/carrying capacity - two and a bit seats plus a bit of cargo space is plenty for me. That said, I definitely value safety features like ABS, multi airbags etc as well as good interior equipment, general comfort etc - together with enough ruggedness/power to handle the occasional rough/off road and flood situations. BTW, the Toyota Harrier looks gorgeous - maybe too gorgeous for me - and it is pricey .

I'm inclined to agree with you about engine sizes above a certain level - e.g. you're taking such a fuel hit with a V6 that the extra bit guzzled by a V8 hardly matters and sometimes they're actually more fuel-efficient. I'll take a closer look at the Cherokee although I reckon it'll still feel bigger than I want/need - similar thought applies to the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute and the Honda CR-V.

Incidentally, to help other would-be buyers generally, I found an American review site that is very useful for both new and used vehicles:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/

[Gary A]

Everytime I see Carribeans in Bangkok, they always can't keep with the traffic. They are small, true, so fairly easy to overtake on the left or right without even leaving the lane.

What was that story about Carribeans being banned from the US because of high roll-over rates. The best part was that they roll not on the side, but on their backs!

They might be OK for off-roading, but unsuitable for city or highway driving. But they are right price for the size.

Comparing them with Jeeps? Apples and oranges.

They are a narrow wheel base high ground clearance little vehicle, so of course they will roll over easier than a car. The most serious shortcoming in my opinion was the turning radius. It WON'T turn very sharp at all. Making a U turn in Bangkok was sometimes a problem. I did quite well though because my Suzuki had the big pipe bumpers front and rear. LOL! It is very spartan, rides rough and offers no luxury for sure. I viewed it as being MUCH safer than a motorcycle.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Gary A

[kasi]

Comparing them with Jeeps? Apples and oranges.

Yes jeeps are poor quality expensive junk which are difficult to maintain!

The suzuki is cheap, durable, easy to maintain. They don't pretend to be anything other than purely utilitarian. And they do that job very well I think. You can buy a brand new one for 410K!

If you don't need an off road vehicle why not just buy a used Toyota corrolla? Very difficult to go wrong with one of those.

[Gary A]

Everyone has overlooked the Nissan NV. It has plenty of power, does much better on gasoline than the Suzuki, rides comfortably and is still small enough to zip around Bangkok. Best of all the turning radius is much smaller, very maneuverable. I bought mine new and never had a problem with it.

[kasi]

Since you haven't given what price range you are looking in it's difficult to give any advice.

The sponsor of this sub-forum has a nice site with much practical information.

I personally like the suzuki caribeans. They are cheap and tough. They are underpowered and uncomfortable though.

I noticed a number of old Land Rovers at the dealer in Chiang Mai. Land Rovers make good rigs and can be modified any number of ways to suit your needs. (I drive a highly modified old 109, it's a blast to drive!)

There is also a Land rover restorer outside of Nakon Sawan who could be a valuable resource.

Fair comment on the price point - apologies for that. I'm thinking up to around 1 million for the right vehicle - i.e. if used it needs to be in great condition (late model?) from a reliable source. It feels like that would cover all the mods I could want to add to a Caribian, so that's something I could explore (I spotted a CM-based 4x4 group with a website http://www.jeepclubcm94.com but it's all in Thai).

Land Rover is a useful thought - though I'd want some creature comforts more than the ability to drive on riverbeds.........

I do keep a regular eye on expatmotors.com and would have gone to at least check out the Kia Sportage they're showing as sold right now - difficult to resist at that price/mileage combination. If that deal is anything to go by, then maybe a new/near new Sportage is gettable........

I just noticed this post. If you are willing to spend that much you might as well just buy a brand new toyota or isuzu truck. The fully loaded 4dr 4x4's run in the 850K range. You can get a relatively basic extra-cab toyota 4x4 with a 2.5 diesel for about 650K. They are a heck of a deal! Brand spanking new! If I hadn't found my Land Rover I'd buy the new Toyota.

Edited April 10, 2006 by kasi

[Plus]

Nissan "Wingroad", also known as NV, is not a 4WD, is it?

When Thais want an offroad vehicle, two seats, some cargo space - they buy a pickup. I don't think they are too big as everyone has them.

Due to tax structures they are the best value for money, too.

[Gary A]

No, it's not a four wheel drive. It's a front wheel drive.

Nissan "Wingroad", also known as NV, is not a 4WD, is it?

When Thais want an offroad vehicle, two seats, some cargo space - they buy a pickup. I don't think they are too big as everyone has them.

Due to tax structures they are the best value for money, too.

[blakegeee]

Everytime I see Carribeans in Bangkok, they always can't keep with the traffic. They are small, true, so fairly easy to overtake on the left or right without even leaving the lane.

What was that story about Carribeans being banned from the US because of high roll-over rates. The best part was that they roll not on the side, but on their backs!

They might be OK for off-roading, but unsuitable for city or highway driving. But they are right price for the size.

Comparing them with Jeeps? Apples and oranges.

They are a narrow wheel base high ground clearance little vehicle, so of course they will roll over easier than a car. The most serious shortcoming in my opinion was the turning radius. It WON'T turn very sharp at all. Making a U turn in Bangkok was sometimes a problem. I did quite well though because my Suzuki had the big pipe bumpers front and rear. LOL! It is very spartan, rides rough and offers no luxury for sure. I viewed it as being MUCH safer than a motorcycle.

The ones banned in North America looked the same basically but it was called a Suzuki Samurai and the wheel base was considerably shorter than a Caribbean making them much more prone to roll-overs.