Why do partners threaten each other when kids involved.

[benalibina]

I am in a sort of bad situation regarding my wife. We have children together who are taken care of by her sister. I am in Europe. After silence for a couple of months yesterday she threatened again, twice, to change phonenrs and taking the kids so i cannot find them again.

What drives parents, people to do that ? What is the psychology behind it ?

For me it is incomprehensible.

Ideas or knowledge anyone ?

[GreenSnapper]

Parents?

Mostly mothers. And they do it because they can.

[benalibina]

Parents?

Mostly mothers. And they do it because they can.

You state that mostly women do that. I tried to keep it neutral in my question. But still the ""why"question is not answered.

[GreenSnapper]

I can only speak for my western home country. It is very common in divorce situations, that women abuse their children to blackmail the father, to take revenge, and "because they can", means, the whole divorce industry is in support of the woman. You have very little rights, except for paying, when you are father.

In your case, I'd try to find a settlement. Of course it will be of financial nature. But if she has only hate or revenge, you won't see your child anymore. Prepare yourself for this situation, and learn about the legal aspects.

[Mark1971]

I believe it stems from a lack of confidence with the kids mother.

She is trying to use the kids to manipulate & control you.

She doesn't feel happy in herself & wants to transfer her unhappiness to you.

She feels that she has so little power compared to you, that she has to use the kids when she wants to control you.

This type of person isn't going to change their character.

They want power over you & will be at their worst if they see you are happy.

Best to always make them think that your life is rubbish.

Not sure if the general forum is the best place to receive good advice on this.

[NeverSure]

Are you sending her money?

Stop. Nothing like money to expedite a deal.

[David48]

Maybe she is using the threat of removing the kids to do either one of two things.

She wishes to inflict emotional pain because she knows you love and attachment to them.

And/or, she is using them as a bargaining point to strengthen her position when negotiating with you.

Sure, there maybe other reasons ... but those are two that come to mind.

.

[benalibina]

Are you sending her money?

Stop. Nothing like money to expedite a deal.

I know, sadly enough. I do as well, sadly enough. Its sad that money, or lack of it, is in many cases more rated than morals or children's best interest.

[benalibina]

Maybe she is using the threat of removing the kids to do either one of two things.

She wishes to inflict emotional pain because she knows you love and attachment to them.

And/or, she is using them as a bargaining point to strengthen her position when negotiating with you.

Sure, there maybe other reasons ... but those are two that come to mind.

.

In my opinion there is only 1 interest. The children's !

I still wonder about the psychology behind it.

[smokie36]

Maybe she is using the threat of removing the kids to do either one of two things.

She wishes to inflict emotional pain because she knows you love and attachment to them.

And/or, she is using them as a bargaining point to strengthen her position when negotiating with you.

Sure, there maybe other reasons ... but those are two that come to mind.

.

In my opinion there is only 1 interest. The children's !

I still wonder about the psychology behind it.

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

[NeverSure]

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

He's in Europe. Everything is stacked against him including Thai courts.

The only power he has is money. IIRC there is no child support in Thailand.

Cut off the money instead of spending a ton more on lawyers and having to travel to Thailand and probably lose.

Then cut a deal and if she breaks it, cut off the money again. Keep cutting off the money as many times as needed to keep everything sorted.

[benalibina]

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

He's in Europe. Everything is stacked against him including Thai courts.

The only power he has is money. IIRC there is no child support in Thailand.

Cut off the money instead of spending a ton more on lawyers and having to travel to Thailand and probably lose.

Then cut a deal and if she breaks it, cut off the money again. Keep cutting off the money as many times as needed to keep everything sorted.

IIRC ?

[rookball]

for some, out of jealousy. the worst are the ones acting from greed, making using of children to blackmail you. more often than not, viewing kids as a tool.

good luck. in the first case, you will need to talk and both parties to compromise. for the later, no amount of money would be enough, its a blackhole. seek proper legal advise and private investigators if needed. there are alot of nasty divorce cases, only good lawyers would give a complete rundown and options.

its a nasty experience of mine. indirectly as it seems, at the end of it, its the children who suffered the most.

[benalibina]

Maybe she is using the threat of removing the kids to do either one of two things.

She wishes to inflict emotional pain because she knows you love and attachment to them.

And/or, she is using them as a bargaining point to strengthen her position when negotiating with you.

Sure, there maybe other reasons ... but those are two that come to mind.

.

In my opinion there is only 1 interest. The children's !

I still wonder about the psychology behind it.

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

Good or bad, being a novice ?

[NeverSure]

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

He's in Europe. Everything is stacked against him including Thai courts.

The only power he has is money. IIRC there is no child support in Thailand.

Cut off the money instead of spending a ton more on lawyers and having to travel to Thailand and probably lose.

Then cut a deal and if she breaks it, cut off the money again. Keep cutting off the money as many times as needed to keep everything sorted.

IIRC ?

I think I was mistaken. Have you been ordered by a Thai court to pay child support?

[benalibina]

Get a good lawyer. Clearly you are a novice in this matter.

He's in Europe. Everything is stacked against him including Thai courts.

The only power he has is money. IIRC there is no child support in Thailand.

Cut off the money instead of spending a ton more on lawyers and having to travel to Thailand and probably lose.

Then cut a deal and if she breaks it, cut off the money again. Keep cutting off the money as many times as needed to keep everything sorted.

IIRC ?

I think I was mistaken. Have you been ordered by a Thai court to pay child support?

Still married. No divorce or custodyproceedings yet.

[klubex99]

It's not so much of a psychology, its a mere matter of being armed with leveraging assets. (The children).

No kids = no threats, or blackmail.

Kids = threats, blackmail.

It's prevalent everywhere in the world... Been there, done that, got the t-shirt...

Mine tried that, I called her bluff.... she didn't back it up with actions.

Play it cool.

[theblether]

Right I'm going to get in bother for this, but here we go.........

There's a thread on this subject already raised by the OP in the family and children forum. The OP is obviously struggling to get his head round this and I can fully understand why.

Benalbina, I said before control the controllable as you can't control the uncontrollable. Her weapon is the kids, your weapon is money. She will torture you for the rest of her life with the kids if you allow her to.

Here's what to do.......change your phone number and all other forms of communication. Stop paying her and put the money in a bank account for the kids. When she next tries to get a hold of you she will go white with shock when she realizes you are gone.

You will have beaten her only weapon, as she is convinced that you are the puppet on her string, cut the string and she is beat.

Leave it long enough for the pain of realization and the reality of being skint to sink in, I suggest three months. Then send her an email or a text from an account or phone number you have specifically for her.

Do not use your general email account or phone, it's torture being pounded all day with ever more hysterical demands. That's mental torture, a practise she is using on you. You need to find the strength to deliver some back to her in the best interests of the kids. Open a new email account or buy a new sim card only for dealing with her.

Send the email or text and merely ask does she need some money for the kids. Not a word more. Not a word less.

Immediately remove the sim from the phone and give it to a friend for safe keeping for a week, whatever you do do not sit and stare at it waiting for a reply. If you have opened an email account the sign out and ignore it for a week.

After a week open the account or sim and read what has been sent, do not answer. Resist the temptation to answer. If it's a hysterical tirade of threats then leave it another week, then a singular message again.

" Do you need money for the kids, yes or no? ".

Then repeat the waiting process.

Open the sim again a week later, see what is written, if she has calmed down then contemplate sending some money. If not, then this time leave it for a month before you reply. Then say.....

" If you threaten me then I will never pay you "

Then repeat..........

Two things will happen, either the penny will drop with her and she will become compliant, or she'll go off on a continual campaign of threats for the rest of your life.

I've seen both.

If she becomes compliant then send her a singular months payment, do not send back money. You would need to be mad to do that as you've now taught her that you will act as a bank.

She has now lost the money for the months that she tried to blackmail you.

When you eventually see the kids you can use that money to take them away on a special holiday, or even put into a savings account for them in their own names, they'll love that.

My ex still cannot believe that I did not fold to the blackmail, my family and friends rallied round to give me the strength to not fold. My mother in particular was excellent.

For all the bluster on the forum just about all of us have gone through some form of emotional turmoil in the past. Finding the strength to fight against this vile blackmail is extraordinarily difficult, but you must find it.

The first part of that is learning to control your own emotions, and the simple act of buying a sim card is the first step in taking control of your life back.

Control the controllable, control yourself.

Edited July 21, 2013 by theblether

[klubex99]

Right I'm going to get in bother for this, but here we go.........

There's a thread on this subject already raised by the OP in the family and children forum. The OP is obviously struggling to get his head round this and I can fully understand why.

Benalbina, I said before control the controllable as you can't control the uncontrollable. Her weapon is the kids, your weapon is money. She will torture you for the rest of her life with the kids if you allow her to.

Here's what to do.......change your phone number and all other forms of communication. Stop paying her and put the money in a bank account for the kids. When she next tries to get a hold of you she will go white with shock when she realizes you are gone.

You will have beaten her only weapon, as she is convinced that you are the puppet on her string, cut the string and she is beat.

Leave it long enough for the pain of realization and the reality of being skint to sink in, I suggest three months. Then send her an email or a text from an account or phone number you have specifically for her.

Do not use your general email account or phone, it's torture being pounded all day with ever more hysterical demands. That's mental torture, a practise she is using on you. You need to find the strength to deliver some back to her in the best interests of the kids. Open a new email account or buy a new sim card only for dealing with her.

Send the email or text and merely ask does she need some money for the kids. Not a word more. Not a word less.

Immediately remove the sim from the phone and give it to a friend for safe keeping for a week, whatever you do do not sit and stare at it waiting for a reply. If you have opened an email account the sign out and ignore it for a week.

After a week open the account or sim and read what has been sent, do not answer. Resist the temptation to answer. If it's a hysterical tirade of threats then leave it another week, then a singular message again.

" Do you need money for the kids, yes or no? ".

Then repeat the waiting process.

Open the sim again a week later, see what is written, if she has calmed down then contemplate sending some money. If not, then this time leave it for a month before you reply. Then say.....

" If you threaten me then I will never pay you "

Then repeat..........

Two things will happen, either the penny will drop with her and she will become compliant, or she'll go off on a continual campaign of threats for the rest of your life.

I've seen both.

If she becomes compliant then send her a singular months payment, do not send back money. You would need to be mad to do that as you've now taught her that you will act as a bank.

She has now lost the money for the months that she tried to blackmail you.

When you eventually see the kids you can use that money to take them away on a special holiday, or even put into a savings account for them in their own names, they'll love that.

My ex still cannot believe that I did not fold to the blackmail, my family and friends rallied round to give me the strength to not fold. My mother in particular was excellent.

For all the bluster on the forum just about all of us have gone through some form of emotional turmoil in the past. Finding the strength to fight against this vile blackmail is extraordinarily difficult, but you must find it.

The first part of that is learning to control your own emotions, and the simple act of buying a sim card is the first step in taking control of your life back.

Control the controllable, control yourself.

+100

Perfect advice, and I can vouch it works. I was advised to do similar with the ex-wife who was using my own kids to demand excessive amounts of money from me. I am talking to the tune of £6000 a month. Yeah right, so her and her new bloke could enjoy a very comfortable life with me picking up the bill?... Not likely.

It took my sister in law's mum to convince me to tell her I didn't care about the kids and she could keep them, and then break off all contact.

It was the start of the school summer holidays and within a month the kids were driving her nuts, and I get a message to say 'You are supposed to be having the kids for the weekend'. That was the end of it. She accepted an appropriate amount for the kids after that.

Women are funny things and it more often than not, requires another woman to advise and guide you.

[theblether]

Yup......if the OP can find a female family member or friend that will back him then that would be all the difference.

Don't reward bad behaviour, don't give in to bullying and blackmail.

[GooEng]

first - get a lawyer. i've pm'd you the name of one i think is pretty handy.

nothing i could say made any difference when i had similar trouble, and one letter from a lawyewr with a court summons ended the hiding of the kids immediately.

in your situation the one thing your wife can do to control the balance of power is USE the kids.

i experienced a period of this and was advised immediately by a well respected thai family lawyer to stop all financial support.

if she is going to play hardball, you have to as well, or you will suffer and so will your kids in the long run.

it may mean a period of separation from them until she relents and allows you to see them, and it takes the unpleasant form of paying to see your kids.

thai courts respect the rights of a father and it looks like that is where you're headed. unless there are circumstances to disqualify either parent (drugs, abuse, etc), they tend to want to grant joint custody and generally do. you will get served with the terms of support you have to provide too. either party who fails to keep to the court ruling is liable for prosecution - her for with hoiding access to the kids and you for not paying maintenance.

heed klubex99 - stay cool. it's very easy to let the situation and the emotions get on top of you when kids are involved, so try to be as objective as you can and remember you are not winning a battle here, this is the whole thing now that she has brought this into play, and it's a longer term plan you have to consider than just seeing the kids this week or next - the end goal being the access you desire to your kids and a manageable relationship with your ex.

(sorry to bring rain to the parade, but be prepared for worse. she sounds like she's combatative and may well try and run you along a bit rather than accepting terms early, and will happily remortgage any property, pawn any cars/gold/etc, and borrow wherever she can in order to support herself, knowing that in the end you will have to pay it all anyway, so anything you can protect from that, do so.)

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Right I'm going to get in bother for this, but here we go.........

There's a thread on this subject already raised by the OP in the family and children forum. The OP is obviously struggling to get his head round this and I can fully understand why.

Benalbina, I said before control the controllable as you can't control the uncontrollable. Her weapon is the kids, your weapon is money. She will torture you for the rest of her life with the kids if you allow her to.

Here's what to do.......change your phone number and all other forms of communication. Stop paying her and put the money in a bank account for the kids. When she next tries to get a hold of you she will go white with shock when she realizes you are gone.

You will have beaten her only weapon, as she is convinced that you are the puppet on her string, cut the string and she is beat.

Leave it long enough for the pain of realization and the reality of being skint to sink in, I suggest three months. Then send her an email or a text from an account or phone number you have specifically for her.

Do not use your general email account or phone, it's torture being pounded all day with ever more hysterical demands. That's mental torture, a practise she is using on you. You need to find the strength to deliver some back to her in the best interests of the kids. Open a new email account or buy a new sim card only for dealing with her.

Send the email or text and merely ask does she need some money for the kids. Not a word more. Not a word less.

Immediately remove the sim from the phone and give it to a friend for safe keeping for a week, whatever you do do not sit and stare at it waiting for a reply. If you have opened an email account the sign out and ignore it for a week.

After a week open the account or sim and read what has been sent, do not answer. Resist the temptation to answer. If it's a hysterical tirade of threats then leave it another week, then a singular message again.

" Do you need money for the kids, yes or no? ".

Then repeat the waiting process.

Open the sim again a week later, see what is written, if she has calmed down then contemplate sending some money. If not, then this time leave it for a month before you reply. Then say.....

" If you threaten me then I will never pay you "

Then repeat..........

Two things will happen, either the penny will drop with her and she will become compliant, or she'll go off on a continual campaign of threats for the rest of your life.

I've seen both.

If she becomes compliant then send her a singular months payment, do not send back money. You would need to be mad to do that as you've now taught her that you will act as a bank.

She has now lost the money for the months that she tried to blackmail you.

When you eventually see the kids you can use that money to take them away on a special holiday, or even put into a savings account for them in their own names, they'll love that.

My ex still cannot believe that I did not fold to the blackmail, my family and friends rallied round to give me the strength to not fold. My mother in particular was excellent.

For all the bluster on the forum just about all of us have gone through some form of emotional turmoil in the past. Finding the strength to fight against this vile blackmail is extraordinarily difficult, but you must find it.

The first part of that is learning to control your own emotions, and the simple act of buying a sim card is the first step in taking control of your life back.

Control the controllable, control yourself.

Great advice for a wife in Thailand, they need the money.

Not so great advice for a wife in the west as police and courts and government will give them (your) money and you never get to see the children again.

Edited July 21, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[GreenSnapper]

Take care that she cannot travel to the West and rip you off at Western courts. Manage everything in Thailand where you will at least be treated more fairly.

[klubex99]

Take care that she cannot travel to the West and rip you off at Western courts. Manage everything in Thailand where you will at least be treated more fairly.

The western courts won't do a thing if the children and wife are Thai citizens. They can only pick up cases involving the citizens of their own country.

I am pretty sure about that. Well, as far as the UK is concerned anyway.

[harryfrompattaya]

I known you is different but in most cases she want more money?

How can one talk and fight on the phone call less do not fight or talk about anything serious or your will lose.

Make all call short and sweet do not less to much to what she says. Never let her get you goat

[evadgib]

1. Money

2. Compliance (by you!)

Children are used by mothers as a weapon in the west with the tactile support of a secretive family court system. Thankfully no such system exists here.

Link of interest to Brit fathers home or abroad: http://www.fnf.org.uk/

Edited July 21, 2013 by evadgib

[soi41]

Right I'm going to get in bother for this, but here we go.........

There's a thread on this subject already raised by the OP in the family and children forum. The OP is obviously struggling to get his head round this and I can fully understand why.

Benalbina, I said before control the controllable as you can't control the uncontrollable. Her weapon is the kids, your weapon is money. She will torture you for the rest of her life with the kids if you allow her to.

Here's what to do.......change your phone number and all other forms of communication. Stop paying her and put the money in a bank account for the kids. When she next tries to get a hold of you she will go white with shock when she realizes you are gone.

You will have beaten her only weapon, as she is convinced that you are the puppet on her string, cut the string and she is beat.

Leave it long enough for the pain of realization and the reality of being skint to sink in, I suggest three months. Then send her an email or a text from an account or phone number you have specifically for her.

Do not use your general email account or phone, it's torture being pounded all day with ever more hysterical demands. That's mental torture, a practise she is using on you. You need to find the strength to deliver some back to her in the best interests of the kids. Open a new email account or buy a new sim card only for dealing with her.

Send the email or text and merely ask does she need some money for the kids. Not a word more. Not a word less.

Immediately remove the sim from the phone and give it to a friend for safe keeping for a week, whatever you do do not sit and stare at it waiting for a reply. If you have opened an email account the sign out and ignore it for a week.

After a week open the account or sim and read what has been sent, do not answer. Resist the temptation to answer. If it's a hysterical tirade of threats then leave it another week, then a singular message again.

" Do you need money for the kids, yes or no? ".

Then repeat the waiting process.

Open the sim again a week later, see what is written, if she has calmed down then contemplate sending some money. If not, then this time leave it for a month before you reply. Then say.....

" If you threaten me then I will never pay you "

Then repeat..........

Two things will happen, either the penny will drop with her and she will become compliant, or she'll go off on a continual campaign of threats for the rest of your life.

I've seen both.

If she becomes compliant then send her a singular months payment, do not send back money. You would need to be mad to do that as you've now taught her that you will act as a bank.

She has now lost the money for the months that she tried to blackmail you.

When you eventually see the kids you can use that money to take them away on a special holiday, or even put into a savings account for them in their own names, they'll love that.

My ex still cannot believe that I did not fold to the blackmail, my family and friends rallied round to give me the strength to not fold. My mother in particular was excellent.

For all the bluster on the forum just about all of us have gone through some form of emotional turmoil in the past. Finding the strength to fight against this vile blackmail is extraordinarily difficult, but you must find it.

The first part of that is learning to control your own emotions, and the simple act of buying a sim card is the first step in taking control of your life back.

Control the controllable, control yourself.

Did Baldrick help you to create this masterplan?

Nice big words, but IMO coming from someone not knowing, how things work here.

No money for 3-4 months, who is going to pay the price? The children ofcourse. Do you honestly believe, that SIL will continue to look after the kids, if not paid. I didn't think so!

I agree with your sentiment, but stop paying is just not the solution. Might even come back to bite the OP in a future courtcase.

Childsupport is normally set at 3000/month/child by the courts +extra for school and medical expenses.

So if 3 children (OP's avatar) 10k a month would be about correct. Instead of paying to the mother, pay it directly to the caretaker (SIL).

So my advice to the OP would be, for the sake of the children, keep paying a minimum until you get here.

If you follow the blethers "advice", you are not better than the mother. Playing an adult game with the children in the middle!

Don't get me wrong, I hate blackmailing greedy bitches as much as anyone. But don't let the children pay the price.

[GreenSnapper]

Take care that she cannot travel to the West and rip you off at Western courts. Manage everything in Thailand where you will at least be treated more fairly.

The western courts won't do a thing if the children and wife are Thai citizens. They can only pick up cases involving the citizens of their own country.

I am pretty sure about that. Well, as far as the UK is concerned anyway.

When she divorces at a western court, the local laws will apply. Many western countries have a foreigner rate of 20% more or less, and they all divorce there and can rip off their western husband.

The OP should take care that will not happen in any case. Take care she cannot get a visa for the home country. Divorce at a Thai court. Be active, don't let things go by themselves.

[Lancelot]

Some parents use the kids as leverage- because they can. They are thinking about short term gain and to hell with the consequences. In these cases everyone looses, but especially the children. Parents that truly love their kids will not stoop to thise despicable tactic. The parent beibg held hostage must not succumb to retaliation, rather try to work through the issue with the unreasonable ex spouse. Not easy and requires an immenese amount of self control.

OP, hope things improve for you.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Some parents use the kids as leverage- because they can. They are thinking about short term gain and to hell with the consequences. In these cases everyone looses, but especially the children. Parents that truly love their kids will not stoop to thise despicable tactic. The parent beibg held hostage must not succumb to retaliation, rather try to work through the issue with the unreasonable ex spouse. Not easy and requires an immenese amount of self control.

OP, hope things improve for you.

Parents?

When was the last time you heard of a man behaving like this?