Rotary the perfect Lp or Cng engine?

[WarpSpeed]

It just occurred to me while posting in another thread that given the draw backs of a rotary in terms of it burning dirty due in part to no valves but because there is no valves there's no valves to over-heat or damage and less problem lubricating since they already have oil injectors. It seems to me it'd be the perfect engine to burn Lp or Cng which also burn cleaner and reduces another number 1 issue with rotary engine deaths being a carbon build up that destroys the seals.. Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

The rotary is essentially being phased out due to tougher emissions requirements, this seems to be a potential solution to their continued use without significant cost increase and complicated fuel management systems as has currently been the case.. Mazda are you listening?? Anyone with the tech knowledge and financing required ever converted a rotary? If so how'd it work out? I think that might be a future project for my own consideration..

Edited August 4, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

Mazda had a PR piece they distributed last year (IIRC) talking about the rotary making a comeback in the not too distant future.. IIRC there was also talk of alternative fuels.. Then all their PR switched to overdrive for SkyActiv, and everything went quiet again for the rotary....

[kartman]

Pity all cars cannot sound like a Mazda 787B

[ignis]

Pity all cars cannot sound like a Mazda 787B

The 2012 Mazda 3 race car with the Wankel Rotary engine sounds very different..

Pity the Mazda 787B was band from racing with the Wankel Rotary engine after winning in 1991

Question...... have seen here the Wankel Rotary Mazda RX3 , guess the engine was replaced years ago ?

[WarpSpeed]

Mazda had a PR piece they distributed last year (IIRC) talking about the rotary making a comeback in the not too distant future.. IIRC there was also talk of alternative fuels.. Then all their PR switched to overdrive for SkyActiv, and everything went quiet again for the rotary....

Yeah the word is a new Rx7 model in possibly late 2014/15 and it's going to be a pricey one, also back to a 2 seater..

What do you think about a rotary Lp or Cng conversion? I feel that primarily an LP converted rotary would be a nice ride, best use for the conversion.. Given how fast the rotary needs fuel delivery (3 times per one rotation per rotor 6 total per 2 rotor Renesis or 13B engine) makes it even easier and less expensive IMO as it wouldn't require a direct injection system, I think back firing especially under deceleration might be a major issue though with nothing to prevent gas back up in the intake and nearly unlimited revs available but is limited to a 9000 RPM redline.

Edited August 5, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Pity all cars cannot sound like a Mazda 787B

The 2012 Mazda 3 race car with the Wankel Rotary engine sounds very different..

Pity the Mazda 787B was band from racing with the Wankel Rotary engine after winning in 1991

Question...... have seen here the Wankel Rotary Mazda RX3 , guess the engine was replaced years ago ?

The 2012 is a Renesis engine, it IS quite different in intake and exhaust design from the 13B but in terms of the 787 the Renesis is less than half the engine both in Ci and numbers of rotors..

Edited August 5, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[ignis]

The Ban in Europe of the Rotary Engine in 2010....... 'Wankel engine was not capable of meeting Euro 5 emissions standard.'

Many Rotary Engine cars were converted to LPG.

http://kinglemoinehawley.com/autogas-lpg-conversion-of-mazda-rx-8-wankel-engine-231bhp/

[ignis]

Sky R Rotary ?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2014-mazda-rx-8

[WarpSpeed]

The Ban in Europe of the Rotary Engine in 2010....... 'Wankel engine was not capable of meeting Euro 5 emissions standard.'

Many Rotary Engine cars were converted to LPG.

http://kinglemoinehawley.com/autogas-lpg-conversion-of-mazda-rx-8-wankel-engine-231bhp/

Tried to respond to this before but it disappeared into cyber space. It seems Lp certainly didn't cut it's Hp any @ 231 if anything it seems it increased it from the listed OE rating of 228.

[WarpSpeed]

Sky R Rotary ?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/2014-mazda-rx-8

That's a great catch iggy, hadn't seen that one, the last I heard on the rotary forums, which usually have the inside dope being many are hosted by Mazda supported race teams was that a new model Rx7 was in the pipe line.. It didn't seem to make much sense to me to be back stepping on model naming but hey it wouldn't be the first time. maybe they're thinking both? One being a true 2 seater sports car and the other a more family friendly offering Rx8 with 4 seats and 4 doors again ala Porsche, Aston, and Ferrari among others, for example, That pic shows the same type of suicide doors as the current model, BTW I like the extra doors but they're very impractical as I or my youngest son who sits behind me has to go around and open it for my other son every time I drop them off at school or somewhere?

I like the lines on that car and potentially tuning for 300 Hp? Sweet! I've saved that link in my bookmarks for future reference.

Edited August 5, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Yep think that is my new car goal for next year if it does actually come out, the timing is perfect, so glad to be back where there is a real choice and reasonable price..

[WarpSpeed]

I just realized this is a 2011 article, I recall my info was more recent then that and there was talk that this was tabled, though I hope not .

Check this out: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/06/mazda-to-revive-rx-7-in-2017/

How about this puppy?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Og2G4FkuL0w

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/27/this-is-what-a-six-rotor-wankel-looks-and-sounds-like/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WA9V0roB82I

Edited August 5, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[BSJ]

Some Mazda rotaries were converted to gas in Oz back in the late 70's and 80's. I think it was more out of desperation by the owners to keep fuel costs down and add a little to the longevity of the engine.

I only saw one LPG fitted rotary, an RX4, when it was in the family garage being worked on. After hours and hours of work it was found the exhaust pump was defective which was the cause of it stalling when slowing to an idle.

You should do one now, with current technology, it would sure be something!

[WarpSpeed]

Yeah, sometimes old ideas cast aside should be revisited when the tech catches up.. I think this is one of those examples..

Edited August 6, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[SlideRiceFC]

There's been a few LPG rotary threads on some of the RX-7 and rotary forums. I'm sure Google could turn them up. I don't recall any specifics but I do remember there were some people that had done it successfully although not in Thailand because I'm sure I'd have revisited those threads when I was looking for rotary folks in Thailand before I moved. But I'd be very surprised if it hasn't been done here. Glad to see people on TV show some rotary love!

[deeks]

Don't rotaries have issues with seals drying out? Just that I remember back in the 80s guy's used to add small amounts of 2 stroke oil to the fuel to keep the seals soft,and lpg is renound for being too dry. Just a thought.

[harrry]

Sealing was a big problem and as gas is even harder on seals not sure this would be good. I am only going with what I heard.

Edited August 8, 2013 by harrry

[WarpSpeed]

That's an old issue, dates waaaay back to the first rotaries, there are plenty of ways to lubricate the seals now, carbon build up is a bigger concern as too many people now a days don't run them hard enough to clean them out properly carbon builds up and then ruins the seals.. Given that Lp or Cng is a better option as it burns cleaner, if anything, heat is more a factor as cooling has been the Achilles heal of the rotaries in the past but that's been mostly eliminated now too, but detonation may be a new issue, though their ignition is so rapid it may not be an issue..

Under normal conditions they get plenty of lubrication through injection and yes it is still a good idea to use a good 2 cycle oil for added lubrication but one that doesn't produce a lot of ash as a deposit by-product.

Edited August 8, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[kartman]

That's an old issue, dates waaaay back to the first rotaries, there are plenty of ways to lubricate the seals now, carbon build up is a bigger concern as too many people now a days don't run them hard enough to clean them out properly carbon builds up and then ruins the seals.. Given that Lp or Cng is a better option as it burns cleaner, if anything, heat is more a factor as cooling has been the Achilles heal of the rotaries in the past but that's been mostly eliminated now too, but detonation may be a new issue, though their ignition is so rapid it may not be an issue..

Under normal conditions they get plenty of lubrication through injection and yes it is still a good idea to use a good 2 cycle oil for added lubrication but one that doesn't produce a lot of ash as a deposit by-product.

Like me then had a RX3 saloon same colour as the 'like button' but too restrictive on where you could go in it as you had to always park on a steep hill .

[WarpSpeed]

The Rx2/3's saloons were an oft overlooked car of their time, the rotary was too misunderstood by most but the cars were well appointed, well made for the most part and they ran like stink on such a small engine, I had one too and they weren't easy to find, I wish I had kept it but I was young and I didn't understand it and mechanically it scared me at that time, so gave it to the wife in our divorce.. BTW The color of the like button?

[kartman]

The Rx2/3's saloons were an oft overlooked car of their time, the rotary was too misunderstood by most but the cars were well appointed, well made for the most part and they ran like stink on such a small engine, I had one too and they weren't easy to find, I wish I had kept it but I was young and I didn't understand it and mechanically it scared me at that time, so gave it to the wife in our divorce.. BTW The color of the like button?

Google image rx3 saloon it's the first pictures there, seemed a good idea at the time like the current green Nissan March and must agree .

[DJH77]

I bought my first Rotary in October 1971, an Orange RX2 Coupe with Sunroof, Cost A$ 3333.00. I started racing it in 1972 in club events with the Triumph Sports Owners Association of NSW. Won the Club Championship that year. The TR5's and TR6's etc couldn't get near it and neither could the Morgans, Austin Healeys or MG's. It had done 50,000 Miles and blew an O Ring which is what you would call a Head Gasket in a normal engine and Mazda Rebuilt the motor for free, i only had to pay for the Fan Belt and Oil. In 1992 i bought a RX7 Twin turbo, Cost A$70,000 and ran it in many Mazda Club events for 10 years. After 158,000 Kl it threw a Rotor Seal and i had to have the motor rebuilt which included Recon Turbos, Clutch Etc. And had it Ported, that cost A$12,000 but what a rocketship it was then, it was a fabulous car and still my favorite and i have had many sports cars and big V8's over the years. As long as you Service the Rotary Engine correctly they will last but it is a pity that in Thailand the RX7, even though it is 20 years old now they are still around 1 Million Baht for a good origional car, but i still think of getting one here one day. If they could be set up for Gas successfully it would be a great idea and you guys have got me thinking. Like many others on this forum i tried to bring my old RX7 to Thailand 10 years ago but they would not give me a permit to import it, and i tried everything at the time. So i sold it with about 10,000 K's on the clock for the new engine for A$25,000 in 2004, what a bummer.