What are you diabetics eating for breakfast?

[chiang mai]

I allow myself about two exceptions a month, that's when I get to eat one meal that I really like and to forget about the blood glucose aspect for a short while. My favorite in the category of late is a grilled reuben sandwhich and this requires decent quality rye bread or similar, this tends to send my readings up to around 180. But if I eat the meal at lunch time and then go for a run one hour afterwards I can nearly always burn off the glucose and get my levels back to around 105 quite quickly, it's a small price to pay.

[Tolley]

Not that I want to really get into a debate of whether there is a cure or not for type 2 diabetes however there is a bit of research out there that suggests both a severe calorie restriction diet and gastric bypass which i suppose mimics that same thing can cure type 2 diabetes?

Is that true or not? Or is it just that not enough research has been done to say so absolutely?

[Sheryl]

Gastric bypass reduces caloric intake, and that in turn will keep many type 2 diabetics in normal BS range. That is NOT the same thing as "curing" type 2 diabetes. It is achieving good control of it, but if these same individuals were to regain the weight and return to prior eating habits they would again have abnormally high FBS.

[chiang mai]

Not that I want to really get into a debate of whether there is a cure or not for type 2 diabetes however there is a bit of research out there that suggests both a severe calorie restriction diet and gastric bypass which i suppose mimics that same thing can cure type 2 diabetes?

Is that true or not? Or is it just that not enough research has been done to say so absolutely?

The extreme diet and gastric banding are both variants on the same theme discussed so far, if you control your food intake you can control the symptoms and the risks associated with diabetes, nothing more nothing less, the restriction of caloric intake is either done voluntarily or surgically..

[Tolley]

Gastric bypass reduces caloric intake, and that in turn will keep many type 2 diabetics in normal BS range. That is NOT the same thing as "curing" type 2 diabetes. It is achieving good control of it, but if these same individuals were to regain the weight and return to prior eating habits they would again have abnormally high FBS.

Here is an excerpt from an article that seems to indicate more than just controlling the diabetes although its title does have Cures in 'inverted commas'. Is that doing the same thing as someone who controls their diabetes by lifestyle changes like diet , exercise and supplements or is it going further than that?

http://forecast.diabetes.org/surgery-apr2013

For years, scientists have marveled at the effects of gastric bypass surgery. The operation, which involves surgically removing part of the stomach and small intestine, physically restricts the amount of food people are able to consume and digest, leading to dramatic weight loss.

Even more remarkable, the procedure puts type 2 diabetes in remission for some people. The surgery restores the body’s sensitivity to insulin and revives the pancreatic cells that produce it, even before any weight loss occurs.

Biologists studying the phenomenon say it has something to do with inflammation, caused by overactive immune cells that build up in fatty tissue. “One of the key observations in human biology is that when an individual transitions from lean to obese, there’s an increase in inflammation,” says David Bernlohr, PhD, a researcher at the University of Minnesota–Twin Cities.

That inflammation leads to things such as insulin resistance, which means the body needs to produce more and more insulin to control blood glucose levels. Eventually, the insulin-producing cells in the pancreas begin to give out, causing type 2 diabetes. After gastric bypass surgery, though, inflammation seems to decrease or disappear almost immediately. Tiny engines inside the cells called mitochondria that shut down as a result of inflammation grind to life again, increasing the body’s sensitivity to insulin in the process. The surgery seems to reverse the course of type 2 diabetes in “just a couple of days,” Bernlohr says.

[chiang mai]

It's a journalistic word game but it doesn't alter the picture:

"A cure is the end of a medical condition; the substance or procedure that ends the medical condition, such as a medication, a surgical operation, a change in lifestyle, or even a philosophical mindset that helps end a person's sufferings. It may also refer to the state of being healed, or cured.

A remission is a temporary end to the medical signs and symptoms of an incurable disease. A disease is said to be incurable if there is always a chance of the patient relapsing, no matter how long the patient has been in remission".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cure

[mr.buffalo]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

[Tolley]

The important question is for those that had the surgery and lost the weight or those that have done the calorie restriction and lost the weight when they test their blood sugar levels after drinking say coke do they test like a normal person or do they test like a diabetic?

[chiang mai]

The important question is for those that had the surgery and lost the weight or those that have done the calorie restriction and lost the weight when they test their blood sugar levels after drinking say coke do they test like a normal person or do they test like a diabetic?

From caloric restriction - the answer is like a diabetic, 100 %. The root cause in both cases is cell death and neither gastric banding nor dieting restores that to normal levels.

[chiang mai]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

If you want cinnamon for baking or to put in your coffee in small ammounts, you can find that anywhere. But if you want to buy cinnamon powder for medical reasons you need to be very careful. Cinnamon from Indonseia/ThailndChina/SE Asia is very harmful in larger doses, google "coumarin" and read all about liver toxicity. The only safe alternatibve is cinnamon from Ceylon which appears not to be available in Thailand and was the subject of a seperate thread (by me) about two months ago - is available by mail order.

[ToddWeston]

Anyone know where I can buy cinammom in Bangkok?

Powder everywhere - tesco, big C, villa, tops

Bark - I saw a new health food store in Paradise Park basement level and they sold it in circa 500 baht

if you're looking at other foods that lower, check out bitter melon and also matoom tea, dried bael is available everywhere (it's the tea they serve after a massage - of course omit the sugar)

[mr.buffalo]

Thanks TW, to do list tomorrow.

[onionluke]

If it hasn't been mentioned already the guava , boksida , fruit does enzymatic wonders .

[Tolley]

The important question is for those that had the surgery and lost the weight or those that have done the calorie restriction and lost the weight when they test their blood sugar levels after drinking say coke do they test like a normal person or do they test like a diabetic?

From caloric restriction - the answer is like a diabetic, 100 %. The root cause in both cases is cell death and neither gastric banding nor dieting restores that to normal levels.

Here is a excerpt from a very interesting lengthy scientific study on the America Diabetes website that seems to contradict what you are saying i think?

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/Supplement_2/S287.full

Even more interestingly from the perspective of the etiology of type 2 diabetes, over the 8-week study period the pancreas fat level gradually fell to normal levels and both first-phase and total insulin response, measured by a gold standard method, gradually returned to normal (Fig. 3). Hence, the Counterpoint study established that two separate time courses in the reversal of type 2 diabetes could be identified: a rapid return of fasting metabolism to normal in step with a fall in liver fat and a slower return of β-cell function to normal in step with a fall in pancreatic fat. During the 8 weeks of a very-low-calorie diet, mean body weight fell by 15.3 kg. No ongoing dietary input was provided after this intervention study, and mean body weight rose by 4 kg over the subsequent 12 weeks. At the end of this period, only 3 of 10 subjects retested had returned to a diabetic state based on oral glucose tolerance test criteria despite the weight gain (26). The study demonstrated that reversal of type 2 diabetes and restoration of normal β-cell function depend simply on reduction in intraorgan fat in liver and pancreas, and this can be produced by dietary means alone

[chiang mai]

If you are overweight, chances are that you will have fatty liver and fat accumulations around other organs, loosing weight in an aggresive manner will rid your organs of that fat - that ceratinly happened in my case and is well known to happen to most dieters, provided they diet to a suffiicent level.

I can only speak from my own experience and from what I have read when I say that aggressive dieting does improve the symptoms of Type II. When I started out my FBS was 160, today it averages 103 and my A1C is 4.8. But if I were to eat or drink any refined carbs or sugar laden food/drink my numbers would and do rocket, I test them daily so I can confirm this and I have my daily numbers for the past ten months. The reaction I experience in this respect is in line with what I've been led to believe from reading various articles on this subject and from talking to endocrinologists.

[Tolley]

If you are overweight, chances are that you will have fatty liver and fat accumulations around other organs, loosing weight in an aggresive manner will rid your organs of that fat - that ceratinly happened in my case and is well known to happen to most dieters, provided they diet to a suffiicent level.

I can only speak from my own experience and from what I have read when I say that aggressive dieting does improve the symptoms of Type II. When I started out my FBS was 160, today it averages 103 and my A1C is 4.8. But if I were to eat or drink any refined carbs or sugar laden food/drink my numbers would and do rocket, I test them daily so I can confirm this and I have my daily numbers for the past ten months. The reaction I experience in this respect is in line with what I've been led to believe from reading various articles on this subject and from talking to endocrinologists.

I hear what you saying. But it does seem like there is some evidence that gastric banding and severe calorie restriction may go one step further for some people that just dietary adjustment and lifestyle changes and whilst that may not qualify as a cure per see these people are in remission and are returning non diabetic glucose readings so that in itself would seem significant.

[chiang mai]

If you are overweight, chances are that you will have fatty liver and fat accumulations around other organs, loosing weight in an aggresive manner will rid your organs of that fat - that ceratinly happened in my case and is well known to happen to most dieters, provided they diet to a suffiicent level.

I can only speak from my own experience and from what I have read when I say that aggressive dieting does improve the symptoms of Type II. When I started out my FBS was 160, today it averages 103 and my A1C is 4.8. But if I were to eat or drink any refined carbs or sugar laden food/drink my numbers would and do rocket, I test them daily so I can confirm this and I have my daily numbers for the past ten months. The reaction I experience in this respect is in line with what I've been led to believe from reading various articles on this subject and from talking to endocrinologists.

I hear what you saying. But it does seem like there is some evidence that gastric banding and severe calorie restriction may go one step further for some people that just dietary adjustment and lifestyle changes and whilst that may not qualify as a cure per see these people are in remission and are returning non diabetic glucose readings so that in itself would seem significant.

Gastric banding, extreme caloric restriction and dieting are all really the same thing but to different degrees, they are ways to restrict the amount of food that is consumed and absorbed. In theory at least, a person who is diagnosed in the very early stages of Type II, has a chance to permanently reverse the symptoms if the disease is based solely upon the cells in the liver and the pancreas being smoothered by fat and overly tired from overwork - remove the fat and allow the cells to regenerate and life should return to normal is how the theory goes.

I have to say that's one h*ll of a theory and it would take a more kniowledgable person than me to tell if it's even a viable concept, can the human body actually work that way, I don't know. One of the reasons it seems improbable is that gastric banding tends to be something that is tried many years after various diets have failed hence the likelihood of being able to reverse Type II after so much time seems unlikely. Someone such as myself who indeed caught the problem in the very early stages, as the body started to turn from normal to pre-diabetic, would seem to have a better chance. Yet today, nine months on, despite having extremely good control and numbers, I would fail an OGT miserably, the best I can ever hope for it seems is well controlled/managed symptoms via a restricted diet.

This morning my FBS is 88, nine months ago my log shows it was anywhere between 117 and 130 hence my body has had nine months to shed fat, remove fat from around vital organs (accomplished and confirmed via ultrasound) and allow liver and pancreatic cells to regenerate. Has enough resting, recovery and regeneration taken place, yes it has, my numbers will remain near normal provided I continue to restrict my intake of refined and high glycemic carbs, but the second I eat say a sandwhich made from white bread or a few slices of pizza, the numbers would skyrocket, maybe for some this doesn't happen in which case they are very fortunate. But it's difficult for me to see hw the theory described above can actually be thought to work unless other factors are involved, perhaps a Sheryl or Partington can add value to the debate in this respect?

[Sheryl]

I hear what you saying. But it does seem like there is some evidence that gastric banding and severe calorie restriction may go one step further for some people that just dietary adjustment and lifestyle changes and whilst that may not qualify as a cure per see these people are in remission and are returning non diabetic glucose readings so that in itself would seem significant.

They are not "in remission", they have their diabetes under good control. Of course, people whose diabetes is well controlled will have normal glucose readings.

Now can we please get back on topic, which is suggestions for breakfast for a diabetic?

[chiang mai]

Omlettes of almost any type, veggie filled and or sliced sausage etc, even better if you can make an omlette out of egg whites only.

Toast as previously discussed, Butter is Better in CM sells all grain bread that is highly rated, haven't tried it myself yet but others say it's very good.

Continental breakfasts work, meat, cheese, yogurt, salmon if you can get it and small amounts of blueberries/raspberries - Makro (the cash and carry)

supermarkets sell chinese blueberries and raspberries by the 500 gram and 1 kg bags, the latter is sensibly priced at 240 ish., not too sweet but OK if cut with yogurt!

Anything you can eat that will accept ground flaxseed, two tablespoons a day on something like porridge works wonders for the digstive system, 4 grams of fibre right there, add it to oats and fruit and you're nearly at your minimum fibre requirement for the day.

[tropo]

Omlettes of almost any type, veggie filled and or sliced sausage etc, even better if you can make an omlette out of egg whites only.

I would never throw away the egg yolks. I'm surprised you're recommending this. You're throwing half the protein, all the nutrients and flavour - a terrible waste of food.

The fat content helps to slow down glucose absorption too. Are you suggesting this because of the cholesterol or calorie content of egg yolks?

[chiang mai]

Omlettes of almost any type, veggie filled and or sliced sausage etc, even better if you can make an omlette out of egg whites only.

I would never throw away the egg yolks. I'm surprised you're recommending this. You're throwing half the protein, all the nutrients and flavour - a terrible waste of food.

The fat content helps to slow down glucose absorption too. Are you suggesting this because of the cholesterol or calorie content of egg yolks?

I do need to watch the ammount of cholesterol I eat from food sources hence I do limit the number of eggs I eat each week. For others it may not be a problem and to tell the truth, I've never actually had an omlette made from egg whites only but I read that it is the prefered options, particularly for CAD patients.

[tropo]

Omlettes of almost any type, veggie filled and or sliced sausage etc, even better if you can make an omlette out of egg whites only.

I would never throw away the egg yolks. I'm surprised you're recommending this. You're throwing half the protein, all the nutrients and flavour - a terrible waste of food.

The fat content helps to slow down glucose absorption too. Are you suggesting this because of the cholesterol or calorie content of egg yolks?

I do need to watch the ammount of cholesterol I eat from food sources hence I do limit the number of eggs I eat each week. For others it may not be a problem and to tell the truth, I've never actually had an omlette made from egg whites only but I read that it is the prefered options, particularly for CAD patients.

I post pretty good cholesterol numbers at 6 whole eggs a day. I don't go along with that theory... but my mother freaks out if I have 4.

[marcusd]

Maybe I do andyou don't. A cure is when that illness is no longer found.... (putting it very simply for you as it is obvious to me you are no doctor sir)

Anything....can relapse.

I dtill practise and own over a dozen clinics in Australia sir. Please don't lecture me until you can validate your professional expertise in such matters. Of course relapsing to bad habits will facilitate the return of any illness

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

We've heard it all before from all manner of quacks and it always ends the same way, where's your link showing independant medical proof that Diabetes Type II can be cured, by any means?

 

Moderators, please!

I given up dealing snd advising those who know it sll from google. Cure thyself. Heal thyself.

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Sceptict11]

Maybe I do andyou don't. A cure is when that illness is no longer found.... (putting it very simply for you as it is obvious to me you are no doctor sir)

Anything....can relapse.

I dtill practise and own over a dozen clinics in Australia sir. Please don't lecture me until you can validate your professional expertise in such matters. Of course relapsing to bad habits will facilitate the return of any illness

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We've heard it all before from all manner of quacks and it always ends the same way, where's your link showing independant medical proof that Diabetes Type II can be cured, by any means?

Moderators, please!

I given up dealing snd advising those who know it sll from google. Cure thyself. Heal thyself.

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

From marcusd own profile !

"Business man owing Medical Clinics and employing lots of lazy people who want too much money stiopping me retiring early.

Very opinionnated because I worked with Government agencies in the past and life is just one big wheel and we are all going round and round. So when you get aged, you have been round and see same shit different people." (sic)

No need for any futher debate !

[sustento]

Maybe I do andyou don't. A cure is when that illness is no longer found.... (putting it very simply for you as it is obvious to me you are no doctor sir)

Anything....can relapse.

I dtill practise and own over a dozen clinics in Australia sir. Please don't lecture me until you can validate your professional expertise in such matters. Of course relapsing to bad habits will facilitate the return of any illness

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We've heard it all before from all manner of quacks and it always ends the same way, where's your link showing independant medical proof that Diabetes Type II can be cured, by any means?

Moderators, please!

I given up dealing snd advising those who know it sll from google. Cure thyself. Heal thyself.

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I ask again. What are your medical credentials? From which university did you obtain your medical degree? Are you registered with the AHPRA? If so with which Board? What's your AHPRA registration number?

Edited September 24, 2013 by sustento

[tropo]

Maybe I do andyou don't. A cure is when that illness is no longer found.... (putting it very simply for you as it is obvious to me you are no doctor sir)

Anything....can relapse.

I dtill practise and own over a dozen clinics in Australia sir. Please don't lecture me until you can validate your professional expertise in such matters. Of course relapsing to bad habits will facilitate the return of any illness

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We've heard it all before from all manner of quacks and it always ends the same way, where's your link showing independant medical proof that Diabetes Type II can be cured, by any means?

Moderators, please!

I given up dealing snd advising those who know it sll from google. Cure thyself. Heal thyself.

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

LOL. Thanks to the Internet and Google (and other search engines) we can find good information and release ourselves from the stranglehold of quacks. I can understand why quacks don't like Google.

Edited September 24, 2013 by tropo

[ronz28]

Not diabetic, but trying to avoid it by going vegan as I was obese and heading in that direction. Breakfast is usually Old fashioned oats and fruit, usually some banana, apple, red grapes, cinnamon, kiwi, mango, oranges depending on prices at the grocery store. Very effective for me, lost 16% of weight since November 2012.

Have tried a lot of diets but vegan works and keeps me healthy. See diet gurus below starting at about 48 minutes 32 seconds into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACRv05NiCTE#t=48m32s

Edited September 24, 2013 by ronz28

[tropo]

Not diabetic, but trying to avoid it by going vegan as I was obese and heading in that direction. Breakfast is usually Old fashioned oats and fruit, usually some banana, apple, red grapes, cinnamon, kiwi, mango, oranges depending on prices at the grocery store. Very effective for me, lost 16% of weight since November 2012.

Have tried a lot of diets but vegan works and keeps me healthy. See diet gurus below starting at about 48 minutes 32 seconds into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACRv05NiCTE#t=48m32s

Did you determine "Not diabetic.....and heading in that direction" by regular testing and watching your blood sugar, both fasting and postprandial, rising into the pre-diabetic range?

The OGTT's are rarely done these days so people are determining their "diabetic state" based solely on fasting blood sugar. Many people can show normal fasting levels yet spike badly into the diabetic range after meals.

[ronz28]

I just had fasting blood-tests, but my doctor warned me that my results indicated I was heading toward diabetes. He recommended a Mediterranean diet. I went gradually Vegan, but once I fully cut out the chicken, fish, beef, milk, yogurt and cheese the pounds came off faster I. still have a little ice cream and cinnamon once in awhile. My blood pressure is down to an average of 106/72 and on my next semi-annual office visit I hope the cholesterol will be so low that the Doc will discontinue cholesterol meds.

[tropo]

I just had fasting blood-tests, but my doctor warned me that my results indicated I was heading toward diabetes. He recommended a Mediterranean diet. I went gradually Vegan, but once I fully cut out the chicken, fish, beef, milk, yogurt and cheese the pounds came off faster I. still have a little ice cream and cinnamon once in awhile. My blood pressure is down to an average of 106/72 and on my next semi-annual office visit I hope the cholesterol will be so low that the Doc will discontinue cholesterol meds.

What were your fasting blood test results? Doctors are hesitant to use the words - "diabetic" and I'm not sure if they even use "pre-diabetic", preferring euphemisms such as "you're insulin resistant".