Flirting

[thaibebop]

I am now about to reveal just how freakish I am.

I hate flirting.

I believe that it is a demeaning thing to do not only to yourself but the person you wish to impress. I know that very few here will agree with me, but I know that for each person there is a line that once crossed makes the classic human behavior of flirting a problem. I know this line is more likely crossed with women for men no little of restraint when it comes to pursuing the affections of a lady.

So, when does flirting make an a$$ of someone? When does and how does a person take it too far?

[britmaveric]

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

Edited April 25, 2006 by britmaveric

[thaibebop]

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

You mean it's worse when the person keeps flirting after getting the cringe factor? I am following you right?

[kat]

When it's no longer fun.

[britmaveric]

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

You mean it's worse when the person keeps flirting after getting the cringe factor? I am following you right?

Yes However mutual flirting can be rather fun especially when it leads somewhere.

[thaibebop]

When it's no longer fun.

When does that moment come? For I honestly don't see the fun to begin with.

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

You mean it's worse when the person keeps flirting after getting the cringe factor? I am following you right?

Yes However mutual flirting can be rather fun especially when it leads somewhere.

You never really know that "that" will be the outcome though. So, it's only fun when in hindsight. So, then someone will make a fool of themselves just on the chance of sex? I know the answer to that, but I just don't get it.

[thaibebop]

People who flirt long after it has become inappropriate and unwanted generally have self-esteem problems and are constantly seeking validation. Chances are their behavior in other areas is also inappropriate.

I agree, but I think those issues start way before the inappropriate line has been crossed otherwise it wouldn't have been crossed in the first place.

[britmaveric]

When it's no longer fun.

When does that moment come? For I honestly don't see the fun to begin with.

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

You mean it's worse when the person keeps flirting after getting the cringe factor? I am following you right?

Yes However mutual flirting can be rather fun especially when it leads somewhere.

You never really know that "that" will be the outcome though. So, it's only fun when in hindsight. So, then someone will make a fool of themselves just on the chance of sex? I know the answer to that, but I just don't get it.

Not necessarily shagging - perhaps Kat can articulate further?

[thaibebop]

When it's no longer fun.

When does that moment come? For I honestly don't see the fun to begin with.

Unwanted flirting and the noticable cringe factor caused by it.

You mean it's worse when the person keeps flirting after getting the cringe factor? I am following you right?

Yes However mutual flirting can be rather fun especially when it leads somewhere.

You never really know that "that" will be the outcome though. So, it's only fun when in hindsight. So, then someone will make a fool of themselves just on the chance of sex? I know the answer to that, but I just don't get it.

Not necessarily shagging - perhaps Kat can articulate further?

Well, sex or whatever, the end isn't really that important.

I forgot to add another aspect I wished to talk about. I think flirting is lying. When a person flirts they are creating a false image of themselves. One that will go away if the flirting "goes" anywhere and therefore the act itself can't be trusted and thus the person. If the person was honest about their feelings there wouldn't need to be flirting.

[britmaveric]

Being complimentary is lying? (hmmm news to me)

If mutual its like dancing the tango - very charged/seductive. As I said highly enjoyable under ideal circumstances.

Edited April 25, 2006 by britmaveric

[khall64au]

Let me get this straight Thaibebop : you don't like flirting, you don't like sex and you don't like being young?

How did you meet your wife? Was there not a degree of flirting involved?

[thaibebop]

Being complimentary is lying? (hmmm news to me)

Oh, come on Brit! There is a huge difference between paying someone a compliment ( That's a nice dress, that color looks good on you, etc) and flirting. Even if you are saying the same thing when you are flirting you are saying sometthing different.

It's lying because you are not putting the real you out for judgemnt to the individual you are trying to impress. You are presenting a falsified version for them to see.

[thaibebop]

Let me get this straight Thaibebop : you don't like flirting, Yes. you don't like sex Never said that. and you don't like being young? Where did you get that idea? I started a thread about immortality even.

How did you meet your wife? Was there not a degree of flirting involved?

No. I was nothing but myself and only myself. I spoke to her as an equal and refused to treat her as something to be had. We had conversations just like the kind that occur in this forum, meaning nothing behind the words other than the meaning they were meant to convey as defined by the English dictionary.

[wolf5370]

Kinda depends on the definition of 'flirting' - not the Abridged Oxford Dictionary definition, our personal definition.

If flirting is joking and teasing each other for a laugh on a forum such as this, then long may it continue.

If its my mate's girlfriend playing around and its obviously Tom-foolery and not a come-on, then fine to an extent. Once or twice in an everning perhaps, but not all the time (cringe factor and fear that the Mrs and her Hubby don't think I'm leading her on ).

If its a stranger and I'm with my Mrs I hate it. The Mrs blames me for not knocking her on her arse - which I would never do - so I end up in the dog house regardless of outcome (time to lock yourself in the toilet to escape).

If they're drunk I hate it. One uttered joke or so (an exchange) is usually OK, but slobering and thinking they are in with a chance as they puke on my shoes and fall off their stall - ahhhh.

I don't mind verbal teasing. I do it all the time (both ways) with my mate's wives and girlfriends and my wife's mates. I get it back too. Doesn't bother me. I really don't like my personal space violated though - unless I invite it. I would not sit on some girl's lap I didn't know, put my arms around her and give her a slobbery kiss on the cheek. Why do some women think its OK the other way around? I had this last new year's eve. I was having a friendly LaoKow drinking contest with some Thai women at a party - as you do Sitting cross legged around a blanked. When one of them gets up dumps herslef on my lap, wraps her arms around me like a vice and tries to slobber a kiss on my mouth. I amanged to turn my head away and got a wet ear instead I pushed her off my lap with some effort (as I did not want to actually hurt her). My wife was furious and decided it was time to go home. She threw something at me in the car (a chocolate bar actually) and didn't talk to me for the rest of the year (or the following day either). To her, it was my fought for not pushibng the girl off more ferociously (even if it did hurt her). To me, I knew she was drunk and was being silly - I didn't like it - but I didn't see that she deserved to be thumped for it. No win situation - maybe I should have gone for the snog and be damned.

[wolf5370]

I do it all the time (both ways) with my mate's wives and girlfriends and my wife's mates

I really could have worded that better I think.

[thaibebop]

Kinda depends on the definition of 'flirting' - not the Abridged Oxford Dictionary definition, our personal definition.

If flirting is joking and teasing each other for a laugh on a forum such as this, then long may it continue. I separate joking and teasing. Now you can joke and tease as you flirt, but I think there is a difference. Of course I would say that the difference is in the way the jokes are said and the body langauge of the person saying them. Which of coruse we can't judge here.

If its my mate's girlfriend playing around and its obviously Tom-foolery and not a come-on, then fine to an extent. Once or twice in an everning perhaps, but not all the time (cringe factor and fear that the Mrs and her Hubby don't think I'm leading her on ).

I find this unacceptable. That is a line that just shouldn't be joked about. Find other things to joke about, otherwise what was once a little funny comment might end up becoming a much larger comment or behavior that will ride that line.

If its a stranger and I'm with my Mrs I hate it. The Mrs blames me for not knocking her on her arse - which I would never do - so I end up in the dog house regardless of outcome (time to lock yourself in the toilet to escape).

I am annoyed when people flirt with my wife. I would get mad if she flirted back. My wife has no patience for these kind of people and let's them know.

If they're drunk I hate it. One uttered joke or so (an exchange) is usually OK, but slobering and thinking they are in with a chance as they puke on my shoes and fall off their stall - ahhhh.

I don't mind verbal teasing. I do it all the time (both ways) with my mate's wives and girlfriends and my wife's mates. I get it back too. Doesn't bother me. I really don't like my personal space violated though - unless I invite it. I would not sit on some girl's lap I didn't know, put my arms around her and give her a slobbery kiss on the cheek. Why do some women think its OK the other way around? I had this last new year's eve. I was having a friendly LaoKow drinking contest with some Thai women at a party - as you do Sitting cross legged around a blanked. When one of them gets up dumps herslef on my lap, wraps her arms around me like a vice and tries to slobber a kiss on my mouth. I amanged to turn my head away and got a wet ear instead I pushed her off my lap with some effort (as I did not want to actually hurt her). My wife was furious and decided it was time to go home. She threw something at me in the car (a chocolate bar actually) and didn't talk to me for the rest of the year (or the following day either). To her, it was my fought for not pushibng the girl off more ferociously (even if it did hurt her). To me, I knew she was drunk and was being silly - I didn't like it - but I didn't see that she deserved to be thumped for it. No win situation - maybe I should have gone for the snog and be damned.

These last two are extremes, and I just try to avoid those kinds of situations.

[kat]

bebop:

Flirting is just something that's done because you're glad to be alive. Or you're glad the frost is finally gone and you can feel the sun in your bones. Flirting is what you do when you see an adorable child, and you play with them and tease them, and make them smile, until they get off at their stop on the BTS. Flirting can be done with grandmothers, the mailman, the grocery store owner, and the mischievous cat that always darts out and bats your ankles before running off. One of the best flirts I've ever seen in my life was a beautiful Arabian horse on the grounds of a riding stable. I read somewhere that flirting shoudl have no real end as its purpose, it is an end in itself.

[thaibebop]

bebop:

Flirting is just something that's done because you're glad to be alive. Or you're glad the frost is finally gone and you can feel the sun in your bones. Flirting is what you do when you see an adorable child, and you play with them and tease them, and make them smile, until they get off at their stop on the BTS. Flirting can be done with grandmothers, the mailman, the grocery store owner, and the mischievous cat that always darts out and bats your ankles before running off. One of the best flirts I've ever seen in my life was a beautiful Arabian horse on the grounds of a riding stable. I read somewhere that flirting shoudl have no real end as its purpose, it is an end in itself.

You are the first person I have met who defines flirting as such. I am not sure what the dictionary says, but all that I have known view it as sexual, and that is what I am talking about here. It's not that I don't find merit in your definition, I think that's some pretty positive stuff, I am just focusing on the sexual side. Most of what you mentioned I would call being happy and not hiding it.

[kat]

"Most of what you mentioned I would call being happy and not hiding it."

That's precisely what it is, bebop. Throw your dictionary away in this case. In the sexual attraction sense, it is simply being happy and not hiding it. And you express this in a variety of ways, depending on how you like to give or receive attention. Not all flirting is done intentionally, either. That's the best.

*And usually when I am attracted to someone, that's exactly when my "efforts" fail. Flirting is just living and appreciating who you're with in the moment, even while you hope for more moments. I think that's why it is much different when you are thinking about courtship. Then I would call it seduction, which includes flirting, of course.

Edited April 25, 2006 by kat

[thaibebop]

"Most of what you mentioned I would call being happy and not hiding it."

That's precisely what it is, bebop. Throw your dictionary away in this case. In the sexual attraction sense, it is simply being happy and not hiding it.

Then I guess I lack the words to describe what I am speaking of. I will try anyway.

What I am talking about is not being happy. It's about trying to impress, putting on aires, being something bigger and better than you think you are and trying to convince someone else of your lie. It's the attempt to seduce another person. It's using sex to get what you want, even if sex is what you want.

Am I starting to make sense at all?

Example: I have worked many jobs in the customer service racket (clerk really, Hi may help you BS) Good looking women would come in and the guys that worked there would help her first over the male customers or what they considered the ugly girls and always put on that "Hey, how you doing, baby?" bullsht in one form or another. Okay, is this not insulting? Even slightly yuck?

Example: Some women would show up at these places I worked and present themselves sexually. They would flirt to get what they want or to get it faster. Many would come up to me and try to pull this crap. I hated it. It was insulting to me that they assume that I can be lead around like some puppy dog on a leash. Of course all the other guys allowed this to happen so I guess these girls figured I would be the same.

Making sense yet?

Edited April 25, 2006 by thaibebop

[kat]

Yeah, I think if sex is the goal, then it has moved on to seduction. Although flirting is a part of seduction, too.

[thaibebop]

Yeah, I think if sex is the goal, then it has moved on to seduction. Although flirting is a part of seduction, too.

And what is seduction? Why the seduction as the old saying goes. Sorry, edited my post, please read those examples,maybe I will make more sense.

[ColPyat]

Does anybody remember Woddy Allen's 'Bananas'?

That has one of the funniest flirt scenes ever filmed - the one in the djungle at the waterfall.

[thaibebop]

No.

[kat]

In the above cases, it's more like manipulation, or trying to get laid, definitely goal-oriented.

What provoked you to open this thread here?

*edit: and I definitely don't call this flirting; I call this a come-on:

"When one of them gets up dumps herslef on my lap, wraps her arms around me like a vice and tries to slobber a kiss on my mouth. I amanged to turn my head away and got a wet ear instead I pushed her off my lap with some effort (as I did not want to actually hurt her). My wife was furious and decided it was time to go home. She threw something at me in the car (a chocolate bar actually) and didn't talk to me for the rest of the year (or the following day either). To her, it was my fought for not pushibng the girl off more ferociously (even if it did hurt her). To me, I knew she was drunk and was being silly - I didn't like it - but I didn't see that she deserved to be thumped for it. No win situation - maybe I should have gone for the snog and be damned."

Edited April 25, 2006 by kat

[thaibebop]

In the above cases, it's more like manipulation, or trying to get laid, definitely goal-oriented.

Isn't that the same as seduction? The English language is know for multiple words with the same meaning.

What provoked you to open this thread here?

No one gets me on my side of the world, so I thought I would try the other. I never had much hope, BTW.

[jdinasia]

gay men are masters of flirting ... on almost every level ... and it is simply social interaction

I read your two examples above and in situation #1 the behavior of the employees flirting with the customer is a bit wrong ... but only a bit :-)

The second situation just isn't wrong at all

Though in niether example do I see it as "putting on airs" ... it's not like lying to manipulate someone ... they didn't say "I only work here for fun ... want to go out to my yacht next weekend for a day-cruise?" Oh and how about a nooner?

Waitresses flirt for bigger tips .... Customers flirt for the excitement of possibility even when they no nothing is gonna come out of it ... (and pay bigger tips often :-)

It is entirely OK to flirt with the bosses wife at a cocktail party (ONCE! and only in the presence of the boss!)

hel_l ... I've even had bosses (VERY str8 Syrian guys) that I flirted with at company parties in front of THEIR wives ... mainly for the look on their faces ... you just gotta see it ... but they hired me knowing I was the best salesman around ... and sales is about 2 things ... getting the customer happy and off-balance :-)

[thaibebop]

gay men are masters of flirting ... on almost every level ... and it is simply social interaction

I read your two examples above and in situation #1 the behavior of the employees flirting with the customer is a bit wrong ... but only a bit :-)

Yes, wrong, that's not where they are there for.

The second situation just isn't wrong at all

Yes, it is. It assumes that I am incapable of controling my sex drive, that the second she pushes her goods in my face to convince me to help her I will not be able to say no. If a man acted this way to a woman he would be looked down upon, am I wrong?

Though in niether example do I see it as "putting on airs" ... it's not like lying to manipulate someone ... they didn't say "I only work here for fun ... want to go out to my yacht next weekend for a day-cruise?" Oh and how about a nooner?

Waitresses flirt for bigger tips .... Customers flirt for the excitement of possibility even when they no nothing is gonna come out of it ... (and pay bigger tips often :-)

Not all.

It is entirely OK to flirt with the bosses wife at a cocktail party (ONCE! and only in the presence of the boss!)

hel_l ... I've even had bosses (VERY str8 Syrian guys) that I flirted with at company parties in front of THEIR wives ... mainly for the look on their faces ... you just gotta see it ... but they hired me knowing I was the best salesman around ... and sales is about 2 things ... getting the customer happy and off-balance :-)

I would call this unprofessinal and if I was your boss and this was something that you continued to do I would have a talk about your behavior. You don't bring sex into business.

BTW, I am not trying to be insulting, please don't take it that way.

Edited April 25, 2006 by thaibebop

[kayo]

Well, bops... Flirting...:?

Let´s go mad.

I hate flirting. But I can be good at it. When I am at the bar, I´m very much myself, but perhaps

with a largely increased self confidence, that I would not have, say, being sober at a chess tournament. I can flirt like no other flirter has ever flirted. But I don´t enjoy it.

Fielding Mellish: I object, your honor! This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.

So Often I do get around a bit.

I recently posted a very accurate world map about it too. In accurate in only that countries were joined say like great britain instead of iRELAND,m scotland, etc.... Welsh girls are Great flirters. Scottish are more to the point. As are Irish. The only difference is Irish take longer to get drunk.... Italians I´ve always loved for those deep olive brown eyes.... Danish have been the sexiest...

Fielding Mellish: You're busy tonight?

Norma: Some old friends are coming over. We're gonna show some pornographic movies.

Fielding Mellish: You need an usher?

Nancy: Would you like to volunteer for the Volunteers for San Marcos?

Nancy: Have you ever been to Denmark?

Fielding Mellish: I've been, yes... to the Vatican.

Nancy: The Vatican? The Vatican is in Rome.

Fielding Mellish: Well, they were doing so well in Rome that they opened one in Denmark.

I don´t enjoy masturbating much... Far too much like a drug (as I posted elsewhere). Can´t deny I´m not bloody brilliant at that too though...

Fielding Mellish: I once stole a pornographic book that was printed in braille. I used to rub the dirty parts.

Women who are high and mighty about women´s lib can do my head in though... blah blah blah but not one original idea. If women wanted to be more er.. active in the political world, then my opinion says that they should not be trying to do like maggie, just paying a priorly man´s game, but would be a darned site more effective if all of us blokes were found to be reading cosmopolitan or somehting.

Fielding Mellish: You don't have hostility to the male sex, do you?

Nancy: Oh, Women's Lib do not automatically mean castration.

Of course, knowing how to speak a few languages fluently helps, and often (well, the few times it occurs) that I am crashing and burning, sometimes a foreign tongue has helped me to stay afloat...

Fielding Mellish: I love you, I love you.

Nancy: Oh, say it in French! Oh, please, say it in French!

Fielding Mellish: I don't know French.

Nancy: Oh, please... please!

Fielding Mellish: What about Hebrew?

Nancy: [disappointed] Oh.

But yeah, sometimes flirting can get carried away, beyond realistic, believable control, anyhting to acheive the goal, but ultimately self defeating in its insanity....

Nancy: I have to tell you something, and I don't know how to break it. Oh, Fielding...

Fielding Mellish: Why? Is something the matter? Am I... am I... Have you seen X-rays of me?

Nancy: I want to work with pygmies in Africa! I want to work with lepers in a leper colony! I don't think that you...

Fielding Mellish: I'm willing to...! No, it's perfectly okay with me! I like leprosy! If that's what you're asking me... I'm perfectly willing to... I like leprosy, I like cholera! I like all the major skin diseases!

Nancy: You're immature, Fielding.

Of course, when the woman starts analysing you, you may be in with a shot after all,... I mean, why would she waste her time otherwise right... Begging to be proved wrong, which, analytically, could say loads about her potential in bed...

Fielding Mellish: [whining] How am I immature?

Nancy: Well, emotionally, sexually, and intellectually.

Fielding Mellish: Yeah, but what other ways?

How far would you go for a shot at a one night stand though,.... Or is she worth more than that to you... ??

Esposito: You have a chance to die for freedom.

Fielding Mellish: Yes, well, freedom is wonderful. On the other hand, if you're dead, it's a tremendous drawback to your sex life.

So what´s it all about alfie??

Nancy: Can... can you, like, define the meaning of love?

Fielding Mellish: What do you... define... it's love! I love you! I... I want you in a way of cherishing your... your... your totality and your otherness, and... and in the sense of a presence, and a being, and a whole coming and a going in a room with grapefruit, and... and love of a thing of nature in a sense of not wanting or being jealous of the thing that a person possesses.

Nancy: So, have you got any gum?

To make this more thai related, one last quote before I go...

Fielding Mellish: I love Eastern philosophy. It's... it's metaphysical, and redundant. Abortively pedantic.

Edit: Quotes courtesy of imdb.com the internet movie database, and with utmost regards to Colpyat for bringing back to memory a very funny very old very funny movie.

Edited April 25, 2006 by kayo

[britmaveric]

Playful banter!