Thailand colonized

[marell]

Depends entirely on how you define 'colonized'.

[Mosha]

Thailand wasn't occupied by the Japanese in the same way that Vichy France wasn't occupied by the Germans.

There was also a resistance movement inside Thailand; particularly the north west.

There was a POW/detention camp down in La-Un. It held Tamils and Thai resistance fighters. They were part of the labour on the railway from Chumphon to La-Un. One of our friend's mum can remember the Japanese being here.

[asiamaster]

Thailand was and still is colonised by the Chinese..

economically the whole west is currently colonised by the Chinese...

+ Africa. Ghenghis would be proud.

Yes the days of the Khans will return for sure. At least so far the Chinese are not (yet) running the governments and all the businesses like they already do in Thailand...

[Shancloudy]

Thailand was never colonized but they were a puppets of Japan.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[StreetCowboy]

Both Kings Rama IV and V were concerned about European colonisation and made various treaties with both France and Britain in, successful, efforts to avoid this; but did have to cede territory to both powers.

Although not the official history, I can't help wondering if the main reason Siam, as it was then, was not colonised by either the British or the French was because both powers wanted a buffer state between British India and French Indochina.

I think that's the general consensus. Neither could have invaded without the other intervening to oppose them.

In comparison to the sultanates of Malaya and princedoms of India, Thailand was probably quite a well-developed nation state at the time, from what I understand.

No doubt others will correct me, and I look forward to the education

SC

[JusMe]

If the Japanese had succeeded Thailand would have been enslaved pretty quickly. Also,did I read that apart from the deaths of many European servicmen at the Bridge over the river Kwai and Burmese death railway, there were thousands of Thai people killed,too,by the Japanese.

Thailand was an ally of the Japanese, and therefore would have "succeeded" with them.

There were very few Thais killed during WWII, and they had no involvement whatsoever in the building of the railway. Many Asians died during its construction, but they were Indian, Bangladeshi, Burmese, Malayan, Indonesian. No Thais at all.

There were never "thousands of Thai people killed by the Japanese."

[JusMe]

the first landing of the japanese was actually NOT with the thai government's approval and there was some brief fighting. the thai prime minister had been upcountry and learned of the landing only a fw hours later and then gave his approval to stop the figthing...

There had been long negotiations between the Japanese and Thai Prime Minister, Field Marshal Phibunsongkram, and he had agreed that the Japanese could land.

In order to avoid obvious involvement in it, and which shows that he was most likely aware of the exact timing, he deliberately took a trip upcountry. by car as he disliked flying, and without communication so he couldn't respond immediately.

When the Japanese had landed and there had been some minor skirmishes, he returned to Bangkok and then informed the rest of the government that the Japanese had his approval for their landing.

He knew of it well in advance.

Just a short time later, he signed a treaty with the Japanese, at the Temple of the Emerald Buddha, an unprecedented event. And then just a short time after that, he surprised even the Japanese by declaring war against the Allied countries.

[CaptHaddock]

As I recall, the "permission" of the Thai government was obtained subsequent to the invasion of the Kra Isthmus by the Japanese Army.

The country was occupied by the Japanese during WW11, with the consent of the government at the time; but there was much resistance to this.

No, there was never an occupation. Thailand maintained its fully armed police and military, even joining in some of the fighting, mainly in the north against the Chinese.

The landing of Japanese troops was with the consent of the government, but there was never an occupation.

And there was very little resistance to both the landings and the presence of the Japanese throughout the war. Resistance of note - a bit more than a full day - occurred at Prachuap Khiri Khan, with the deaths of approximately 33 Thais.

Throughout the country, there was very little resistance or even disapproval.

[mesquite]

"Was Thailand ever colonized?"

It's being colonized right now by the Chinese.

[Travel2003]

You are wrong on the occupation by Japanese. It's a negotiation between the ruling powers. Japs get "free passage way" to go thru Thailand to invade Malaysia and then Singapore. In return, Thailand will be left untouched.

I don't think the labor camps were too mobile (passing through/Free passage).

[JusMe]

As I recall, the "permission" of the Thai government was obtained subsequent to the invasion of the Kra Isthmus by the Japanese Army.

No, the permission was granted to the Japanese well before they landed. There was no "invasion," but a permitted landing and movement of troops across Thailand, and the stationing and provisioning of them in Thailand.

There are notes from the 1940 & 1941 diaries of the Japanese intelligence officer who conducted those negotiations with the Prime Minister.

[JusMe]

I don't think the labor camps were too mobile (passing through/Free passage).

Those camps were not used for Thais. There were camps for the POWs, and for the Asian labourers, but no Thais were involved in labouring for the Japanese.

They provided paid services, food, other provisions, even money, but there was no slave labour of Thais by the Japanese.

[Scottythai]

Depends what soi you are on. I see there is some Japanese colonies I see lots of Indian colonies as well as some Arabic. I see a few Nigerian states as well as mixed drunken old fat western male territories (mostly Bars). But ces la vie

[Travel2003]

I don't think the labor camps were too mobile (passing through/Free passage).

Those camps were not used for Thais. There were camps for the POWs, and for the Asian labourers, but no Thais were involved in labouring for the Japanese.

They provided paid services, food, other provisions, even money, but there was no slave labour of Thais by the Japanese.

I didn't indicate the camps were for Thais.

I was commenting to the Japanese "passing through" agreement with the Thai government.

The camps were there.

Thai/Japanese interpretation of passing through??

You probably know the number of people who did not "Pass Through", right?

[JusMe]

Documents (mainly treaties) in both English and Thai showing Thailand's international relationships between 1940 and 1946 are available here.

It's a pdf file, just under 50 mb.

[Darren McKenzie]

As I recall, the "permission" of the Thai government was obtained subsequent to the invasion of the Kra Isthmus by the Japanese Army.

No, the permission was granted to the Japanese well before they landed. There was no "invasion," but a permitted landing and movement of troops across Thailand, and the stationing and provisioning of them in Thailand.

There are notes from the 1940 & 1941 diaries of the Japanese intelligence officer who conducted those negotiations with the Prime Minister.

There was no "invasion," but a permitted landing and movement of troops across Thailand, and the stationing and provisioning of them in Thailand.

Sources? Links? Citations? References?

[jdinasia]

One could say the country is controlled by the Japanese right now.

and "One" would be very very wrong!

For those that are interested in the topic I suggest reading up on the Seri Thai from as many different sources as possible. They did a very good job of rescuing allied airmen that were downed over Thailand (including in US bombing runs over BKK.)

Those that think there was little resistance to what indeed did become a de facto occupation by the Japanese need only look at the Seri Thai movement and the fall of Phibun.

[CaptHaddock]

Wikipedia provides a detailed chronology that disagrees with you, including this:

At 11pm on 7 December the Japanese presented the Thai government with an ultimatum to allow the Japanese military to enter Thailand. The Thai were given two hours to respond. [17]
...
Japanese troops invaded Thailand from Indo-China and with landings south of Bangkok and at various points along the Kra Peninsula because Thailand had not responded to the ultimatum. The problem for the Thai government was that Songkhram, their Prime Minister, was not able to be contacted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand

Resistance by Seri Thai, like resistance in France during the war, was a token gesture and militarily unimportant.

As I recall, the "permission" of the Thai government was obtained subsequent to the invasion of the Kra Isthmus by the Japanese Army.

No, the permission was granted to the Japanese well before they landed. There was no "invasion," but a permitted landing and movement of troops across Thailand, and the stationing and provisioning of them in Thailand.

There are notes from the 1940 & 1941 diaries of the Japanese intelligence officer who conducted those negotiations with the Prime Minister.

[7by7]

All of Asia including Thailand should should thank the USA and Britain for destroying the Japanese war machine. If the Japanese had succeeded Thailand would have been enslaved pretty quickly.

Don't forget Australia and New Zealand! (From a Pom.)

Also,did I read that apart from the deaths of many European servicmen at the Bridge over the river Kwai and Burmese death railway, there were thousands of Thai people killed,too,by the Japanese.

Rōmusha recruitment

In 1943 under pressure to complete the construction of the Thai–Burma railway, the Japanese recruited approximately 200 000 Asian labourers, or rǒmusha, to supplement their workforce of about 60 000 prisoners of war. The treatment of these labourers epitomised the ruthless exploitation by the Japanese of the countries they had occupied in 1941–42. Although it is difficult to be precise about numbers, up to 90 000 rǒmusha died on the railway.

The rǒmusha were drawn from across Asia and included Burmese, Karen, Thai, Malay, Tamil, Chinese, Javanese and Indochinese. The largest group came from Burma and Malaya, the regions which were closest to the railway and subject to complete Japanese control. It seems that around 90 000 Burmese worked on the railway, although the exact number is difficult to determine as thousands deserted before or soon after reaching the railway. From Malaya, around 75 000 workers were recruited or conscripted, including Malays, Tamils and Chinese.

.......

Thousands of Thais also worked on the railway, particularly during its initial phase of construction in 1942. Although they were employed on the least difficult section of the line, between Nong Pladuk and Kanchanaburi, the Thais proved difficult to manage. Since they were in their home country, they found it easier to abscond — and thousands did so. Moreover, because Thailand was not formally an occupied country, the Japanese were restricted by the need to negotiate with rather than coerce their Thai workers.

[MyFriend You]

You are wrong on the occupation by Japanese. It's a negotiation between the ruling powers. Japs get "free passage way" to go thru Thailand to invade Malaysia and then Singapore. In return, Thailand will be left untouched.

In other words - Collaborators - but what about 'The Bridge over the River Qwai??'

[MAJIC]

Thailand was and still is colonised by the Chinese....

The chinese just didn't bother putting a name to it,actions speak louder than words!

[MAJIC]

You are wrong on the occupation by Japanese. It's a negotiation between the ruling powers. Japs get "free passage way" to go thru Thailand to invade Malaysia and then Singapore. In return, Thailand will be left untouched.

In other words - Collaborators - but what about 'The Bridge over the River Qwai??'

"What about the Bridge over the River over the Riverb Qwai" ? You decide:

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_on_the_River_Kwai

Edited November 23, 2013 by MAJIC

[JusMe]

You are wrong on the occupation by Japanese. It's a negotiation between the ruling powers. Japs get "free passage way" to go thru Thailand to invade Malaysia and then Singapore. In return, Thailand will be left untouched.

In other words - Collaborators - but what about 'The Bridge over the River Qwai??'

No, not collaborators - allies. Read the documents and see the treaty between Thailand and Japan, and the declaration of war by Thailand against the Allied powers.

[JusMe]

Wikipedia provides a detailed chronology that disagrees with you, including this:

Please, please, please - let's never use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. It's written by a few people, often with their own political agendas to fulfill.

Always go to other sources, and you'll find that in any controversial topic, Wikipedia can be incredibly biased and slanted.

[Travel2003]

Wikipedia provides a detailed chronology that disagrees with you, including this:

Please, please, please - let's never use Wikipedia as an authoritative source. It's written by a few people, often with their own political agendas to fulfill.

Always go to other sources, and you'll find that in any controversial topic, Wikipedia can be incredibly biased and slanted.

What if Wiki is referring to their own outside sources (the References on the bottom of the page)?

[Travel2003]

Thailand was and still is colonised by the Chinese....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfsVCqBYbgY

[Johpa]

Thailand was and still is colonised by the Chinese....

They had willing partners in the ruling high sakdina class. It was only during the latter stages of Rama V that the majority of ethnic Tais were released from servitude and slavery. The Sino-Chinese had the access to credit (Thais did not even have a monetary economy) and controlled finance, business, and the collection of taxes. The ruling Tai elite controlled the military and education. (Thus many university presidents were/are members of high sakdina Na this and Na that families.) These two groups were somewhat merged by the marriage of Tai daughters to Sino-Thai sons, the higher class allowing the daughters of the lower class to move socially upward. The political economy of Thailand remains firmly in the hands of the Sino-Thai elite. But whatever the composition, the ruling elite has always run Thailand on the colonial model of extracing resources for export and ignoring the infrastructure. And thus Thailand ranks near the bottom of its ASEAN peers on so many levels.

[sms747]

How much land did Rama V give to the Brits and French? must have been over a third of the country, quite a price for 'independence' Might have been better all round if Thailand had been properly colonised, at least they would have decent bread or beer!

[Stradavarius37]

For a good overview - read "Thailand: A Short History" by David Wyatt - Ignore the barstool historians on TV.

[sms747]

. I think its good that 'thainess' in the culture remains dominant, but for how long ?

corruption and face are a big part of 'thainess'