Police battle protesters at Thai-Japanese Stadium

[newcomer71]

a mob of ultra royalists trying to revert back to feudalism, against 27 parties and the great majority of population. What demons rule them? How brainwashed can they be?

do have political views, even fascist one, but don't try to force them on others

how "great" are the majority when their votes can be bought for 500B a pop.

I don't support the yellow shirts, but I do support democracy, and let's be honest, Thailand doesn't have one, and probably never did.

Solution - no idea.

This vote buying excuse has been discredited. Yes, there are some cases of vote buying ON BOTH SIDES, but not enough to result in the wide margin PTP had in the last election. Even the Democrat Khun Korn said that vote buying doesn't effect election results.

Of course vote buying affects results. They wouldn't do it otherwise would they!!

When Thaksin first came to power, his lovely "Thai Rak Thai" (how ironic that sounds now) organization held a "party" in our village the night before the election. Free food, alchohol, and general arrangements for how to ship people to the polling stations the next day. That's the sad day I learned what "democracy" really meant in Thailand. Democrazy.

Don't tell me it doesn't work. You think Thaksin, a very shrewd businessman, would waste money if it didn't work? Its how he came to power and the country has been going downhill ever since.

Pete66, we all know that it has vote buying, but unhappily it is on both sides. That's the dramatic situation.

And yes, both sides have done that as a regular practice, to then squeal and denounce it when they lost. (not only National polls, but also at local polls, see what happened with BMA election last two times...).

[In Town]

Just to clarify, research suggest that the vast majority of cash and other emoluments handed out around elections goes to a candidates or party's supporters. Its more get out the vote than change the vote.

[citizen33]

Here is another take on vote buying. Almost all the academic studies point the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02FN0-ZzRRQ

Edited December 29, 2013 by citizen33

[In Town]

Interesting. I watched the first few minutes. The trend towards a two party system in Thailand is related to the political conscientization of the Thai people, particularly rural people (ironically, the urban professional class is less politically developed than the rural workers they often denigrate). This has led to the emergence of ideology as the primary subject of political contestation, and breakdown of the patron-client relationships that characterised old Thailand. The ongoing conflict in thai society is essentially the struggle between two systems; modern democracy against feudalism.

[gerry1011]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

He wants it so bad, it is like an itch he can't stop scratching and that is why he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs. He knows he is on murder charges and he wants to justify them by getting Yingluk to drop into his gutter and do the same. Problem is she is far more intelligent than a pig in a shit trough.

You and jackrice really have no clue what is going on politically in Thailand. You just like to say nasty things in order to get some easy likes. I have seen this all over TV forum.

The ONLY thing Suthep had to do to have the murder charges dropped would have been NOTHING, no protest, NOTHING. His charges would have been dropped with Thaksin's whitewash bill. Suthep doesn't want them dropped. He wants to fight them.

Suthep is fighting for power.

The murder charges (and all the other deaths he is responsible for) are the least of his concerns...

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[chooka]

Suthep is desperate for bloodshed. All he wants is for Yingluck to open fire and murder Thai civilians as he himself has done. His next step will then be to get his murder charges dropped in exchange for Yingluck's charges dropped.

He wants it so bad, it is like an itch he can't stop scratching and that is why he is now shooting and killing innocent police just doing their jobs. He knows he is on murder charges and he wants to justify them by getting Yingluk to drop into his gutter and do the same. Problem is she is far more intelligent than a pig in a shit trough.

You and jackrice really have no clue what is going on politically in Thailand. You just like to say nasty things in order to get some easy likes. I have seen this all over TV forum.

The ONLY thing Suthep had to do to have the murder charges dropped would have been NOTHING, no protest, NOTHING. His charges would have been dropped with Thaksin's whitewash bill. Suthep doesn't want them dropped. He wants to fight them.

You have lost me, some easy likes what do you mean? Please explain...

[bunuel]

I agree with my Swedish brother, and share his concerns. Like him, I have made a home here in Thailand with my Thai wife, and I very concerned about the current crisis in Thailand - for personal as well as humanitarian reasons. I have spent the last two decades working as a UN Peacekeeper in conflict zones in Asia and Africa, and have

had considerable training in mediation and peaceful conflict resolution. A typical case study might be a fictitious country in Sahara, where tribe X is about to go to war against tribe Y. My job would be to attempt to mediate between the two sides and negotiate a peaceful solution to the problem. While this is obviously easier said than done, the question arose: what to do if one side refuses to negotiate, but only makes ultimatum after ultimatum?

I learned that such a player is either mad or has a hidden agenda - hence a refusal to negotiate in good faith. This is the dilemma confronting the democratically elected government of Yingluck Shinawatra. You can criticize her and her government all you want, but you cannot deny she has made every conceivable effort to negotiate with the parliamentary opposition who, whatever their grievances, have shown no interest in negotiation whatsoever. The question then arises as to why they refuse to negotiate.

While the antics of a demagogue like Mr. Suthep are easy to caricature, it is more troubling when the Eton and Oxford educated former PM Abhisit espouses the same extreme positions, and refuses to negotiate as well. One might hope that the two are playing classic "good cop, bad cop" as a negotiating tactic. but thus far that does not seem to be the case. As a trained mediator, I can only conclude that they have a hidden agenda - and, as other posters have noted, their agenda has been to provoke a violent response from the police or red shirt allies of the democratically elected government - and then compel the military to intervene to restore order.

Thus far, the government has been over backwards to avoid police violence - causing some posters to wonder what is wrong with Thailand when demonstrators can occupy government offices ,shoot policeman and assault civilian taxi drivers with impunity. The answer is simply that Thailand is not like any Western country, and is only comparable to some African countries , like South Africa before the end of Apartheid. Those familiar with the story of Nelson Mandela may remember that after he got out of prison, violent supporters of apartheid assassinated Mandela's close associate Chris Hani, and committed other violent and provocative acts designed to elicit a violent response from the black majority. To make a long story short, thanks to the efforts of Nobel Peace Prize winners Mandela and FW De Klerk, they did not succeed, and the country moved on to democratic elections. For sure, South Africa has many problems, but I think most would agree that democratic elections were preferable to the bloodbath that was the alternative.

It is time for Thai political leadership to act responsibly and protect the country from those who seem intent on throwing the country into a terrible abyss. For any country to function in this world, rule of law must prevail over rule of the mob.

As I have lived and worked in this country and maried to thai wife and also have a political & social science background (Sweden) I would like to make a comment on the current situation. Thailand was ruled by the Royal family and some 20 noble families (controling the army and the money). This influence is still strong to this day. What Taksin did was to try to break this power and turn towards a republic. This angered a lot of Thais who loves their King and are unwilling to grasp the idea of a real democratic society. The owner of my favorite pub: " When we Thai get angry we stand together and fight" What has she (Yinluck) done that has been so bad, I asked? " She has borrowed a lot of money to build a fast railway to the north. We are a country of farmers. The farmers don´t have money to go on a fast train..." But then... since You people from Bangkok are not woting for Her and the farmers dont like what she´s doing (according to You) she willshurely lose the uppcoming election, I asked??

This kind of logic which we westerners use does - obviously - not apply here in Thailand.

Right now I fear a lot for the future of Thailand. Thus far - as some already has commented - the red shirts has been quiet and Yinluck has really NOT acted on the provocations from Suthep (who at the moment did not appear at court to HIS involvent in ordering live bullits against the red shirts). Who will gain on a civil war? I think it is the powers who does not want Democracy to prevail.

[beautifulthailand99]

In the UK these type of demonstrations would get shut down after one day, you get your day in the streets and then you go home. If you don't go home, the police move in. And they don't much care if you get knocked over when they push you homeward. A newspaper salesman died in the UK while walking home from his stall, past a protest site that was being dispersed by the police. He was knocked to the floor and he died from the injuries.

I pointed this out in 2010 during the three month red seige too. Most democratic countries would not stand for more than a day of street protest. The reason being that political solutions come from parliamentary negotiation, not from street action. Obviously Thailand has problems with accepting that, but it is still a far better route than teetering on civil war. From this perspective, neither the protesters nor the police are at fault here, it is the politicians at fault for not settling their differences at state level. I am particularly accusing Suthep of this, as Yingluck offered a dialogue recently, to hear Suthep's demands and find a solution. Round about the same time as she called the early elections, she asked Suthep to enter a discussion. They could have talked through the problems. He said no, and more besides, about her whole family being banished from the nation. Suthep is in the wrong here, for refusing to talk constructively. The blood is entirely on his hands, it is simple logic.

I would also add that protesters stop being protesters and become insurgents, when they no longer make demands for dialogue or elections, but seek to topple a political system entirely. This would be around the time the initial peaceful massprotests ended around the start of December, at which point I stopped supporting them.

This is Thailand. Like most developing countries, elected politicians make up only a portion of the people with actual political power. The 2 major parties, different factions of the military, different factions of the military all have roles to play and, in Thailand's case, all of them have a vested interest in protests continuing (whether yellow or red). Some people on both sides of the protesters (not the leaders, though) have legitimate goals/plans/ideas that could make the country better. But most of the people on both sides are just cheering their side. It's people politics instead of policy politics and the protesters (yellow and red) are just pawns for different elite groups. Not ideal, not really democratic, but at least it's relatively contained and better than full civil war. I think this will eventually change but the change will be long, gradual process.

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Good analysis no-one wants to break the punch bowl just jostling for better positions. Why don't the other families just pay the Thaksin clan to go away ?